Movie "For Black Girls" is the title de facto reverse racism?

Isn’t this movie based on the following book and is simply reusing the title?
For Colored Girls Who Have Considered Suicide When the Rainbow Is Enuf, Ntozake Shange since it in a way is about blackness, what is wrong with it?

@anartist Say some one wrote a book titled “Great White Men Who Made a Difference” and a movie was made that clipped the title to “Great White Men” you could not possibly see people jumping up and saying the movie was racist off the title? Why? Because people would think it was saying “Great White Men That is Better Than All The Rest of You”. Name me one college campus that has a White Club along with their Latino Club, Black Club, Native American Club, etc?

I was just in NY this week and the entire city is plastered with these bills promoting the movie. Since I’m a white man, and it’s “For Colored Girls”, I have no desire to see the movie. But it immediately crossed my mind, what would be the repercussions of a movie entitled “For White Men”?

But hey, you know what… honestly, and unabashedly, in humility, I tell you all, that when my particular gender/race has pretty much dominated and DESTROYED this planet and society for the past six thousand years… I think I can stand a little self indulgence from the other race/genders. They certainly couldn’t do any worse with our planet than my race/gender has. Perhaps I’m due to let somebody else drive for a while.

This is the short answer. Was White Men Can’t Jump a racist movie? I don’t know anything about For Black Girls but it is the content of the film that would make it racist or not; not necessarily the title. And it’s just not an even playing field. One of the things that literature and film do best is to shine a light onto the specifics of specific individual lives or specific groups of people. Very often when people, oppressed minorities in particular, who have been historically denied a voice start talking people feel threatened by it. What bothers you about this one? Well, you think it’s racist. I guess I really didn’t need to ask that one.

I’m curious about this movie…got a link, Hypo?

Are you so fucking dense that you can’t figure out this is the title of a movie? Do you honestly think they will not sell tickets to a white person? You are a strawman. And a shitty one at that.

But @johnpowell… what if the movie really is “For Colored Girls”, and it speaks to issues that mostly Colored Girls need be concerned with? You know, like where is the Colored Man that knocked me up and left me here alone to deal with my pregnancy…

Oh fuck, here comes the hate mail! Whatever… deal with it, and clip your nails before you cut your tongue while sucking your thumb please. The FACT REMAINS… There ARE Issues that Colored Women must deal with as a whole that other race/genders don’t have to deal with. Does that make them special??? No, not at all. But unique in current society… Yes, absolutely.

For instance, did you know that the lowest suicide rate is for elderly Black Women… and the highest is for elderly White Males… Why? Supposedly it’s because White Males have been respected their entire lives, but in old age, they loose respect and have nothing to live for. Yet Black Women struggle in their youth, but become more respected in their elderly years as matriarchs of the family.

I have no problems with a movie called “For Colored Girls”. It’s probably about time, and I would hope to see more of this type of racial depiction in pop media. Perhaps it might help illustrate the plights of everyone to those who are exclusionist.

Eegahdds @johnpowell… I just realized that my post seemed to be bashing on you. Not intended, sorry. Just using your comments as a launch pad for jetting some frustrations of my own. Nothing personal I assure you @johnpowell.

@lillycoyote White Men Can’t Jump might not have been racist by content—as I am sure “For Colored Girls” isn’t also, but the wording of the title is a tongue in cheek dig on the stereotype that white guys are not good at basketball. Now when you take into account Rick Berry, John Stockton, Larry Bird and others it is not true. But it plays to the myth like whie guys have no rhythm, they swing a small bat in the jeans, the smart ones are nerdy, etc. Do you think Holltwood could make a film with the title “Bo Jangles of the Boardroom” and have it be about a Black man and not have the press all over it even if the content of the movie wasn’t racist?

@FutureMemory I will see if I can find you one. :-)

@johnpowell Are you so fucking dense that you can’t figure out this is the title of a movie? Do you honestly think they will not sell tickets to a white person? No, not being able to focus and stay on point of the question might be, but I won’t go as far to say that. It is not about who they will sell tickets to, never seen that as part of the question, did yuo? Focus. The meaning of the title is irrelivant what is is the wording, the phrase used. Regardless of the content of the movie how people percieve it or the wording of the title is in play. Honestly tell me if there was a book titled The Jewish Miser Who Faded From Humanity but the movie version was shorten to The Jewish Miser no one would bat an eye and everyone would know what the movies was about and what the whole title was? The clipped title alone would not give people an impression that had nothing to do with the actual content of the book and the movie made from it? Might be dense not to figure that….......

It’s only an issue for non-literary fringies looking to be deliberately obtuse. Anyone with any semblance of an education who reads would be able to read a review of the movie and equate the title of the film with the collection of poems, For Colored Girls Who Have Considered Suicide When the Rainbow Is Enuf, and recognize that at the premise of this film is social commentary.

The movie is based upon “For Colored Girls Who Have Considered Suicide When the Rainbow is Enuf, the 1975 Ntozake Shange play” and as such it is titled appropriately for the time it is set in.

Racism is racism, whatever the source. I don’t necessarily believe this movie is racist unless the content proves otherwise. However, your point is well taken that anything seeming to be exclusively aimed at whites is automatically racist and that any group, club, party, movie, book, or any other thing that is for any minority group is totally acceptable.
How long before sunscreen is inherently racist because it is primarily for whites?

Commercials are aimed at targeted audiences as are many movies, television shows etc. to enable the advertisers to promote their product(s). There are razors they sell targeted to women and some to men (I never really understood that exactly as I don’t need a pink handle on my razor). There is Grecian formula for men and any number of other products that identify the target audience in the product name.

As for naming a movie for the book title on which it is based, I don’t have a problem with it—it makes sense to me. As stated above, it is the content of the picture that would let me know if it was racist or not (not the title). For Colored Girls is interesting in that most Black women today would not prefer to be called “colored” so that element of the title might have been considered racist to some if not for the time period and setting of the story as indicated above. This title would not keep me away from the movie (but I read the book). I am looking forward to the movie and plan to see it this Sunday.

Adding an indicator of race to a title IS a little more edgy. But it is appropriate for the target audience of the film. This includes young African American women (the target audience of the book) and others with an interest in contemporary literature, the struggles of women, the struggles of Black women, the struggles of young women, etc.

Growing up when I did, we learned about the ascent of “man,” the brotherhood of man, mankind, and had all kinds of “man” things shoved down our throats. If something is about men, I am fine with it. However, using “man” as the word to assume all people (including women) was indicative of a mindset that presumed women didn’t really do anything in history. Today, such references would be considered sexist in many instances. In their day, it was the sheer volume of such references that was overwhelming.

A single movie title with a reference to race and gender is hardly threatening and if the target audience is not offended by the word “colored” then I am not offended.

We have had movies with titles such as “Women on the Verge of a Nervous Breakdown,” “My Fair Lady,” “Pretty Woman,” “No Country for Old Men,” “X-Men,” “Men in Black,” “Children of Men,” “Middle Men,” “Good Fellas,” “12 Angry Men,” “A Few Good Men,” “Men who Stare at Goats,” “All the President’s Men,” and none seemed to provoke based on title alone.

@palerider Blacks need sunscreen too.

@Kayak8 “Primarily”

You don’t think the fact that one group was (and is) oppressed by the other makes a difference? It’s all well and good to say racism will remain until race is only a gene sequence, but that notion utopian and demonstrates a profound lack of understanding of the mechanisms of human psychology.

That being said, even if race was reduced to nothing but a gene sequence we would still be harming ourselves if we forgot about our past. The oppression of blacks in this country is a very real part of the American story and to glaze over that or dress it up in pretty words is a disservice to our future generations. By confronting it, using the terms that were used in the day, perhaps we can dissuade something similar from happening again in the future.

It amazes me that white people always get like this. It was the same way when “White Men Can’t Jump” came out and everybody said “If you made a movie called “Black Men can’t Calculate” you’d be called a racist. Well of course you would. Because that’s a racist-ass title for a movie. I think it’s kind of petty to get upset when you’re a member of the only group in this nation that has never been persecuted by the majority (white, christian men).

Thought I was missing fluther. Now I remember why I haven’t been here.

I’m just going to start calling everybody and everything that singles out a group racist/sexist/classist, etc. No Country For Old Men is against people who live in the county, men and old people.

This question is fuckin’ stoopid.

I asked this question on Fluther several months ago: Why is there not a Miss White America Beauty Contest, if there is a Miss Black America Beauty Contest?

How did this come about?

And, there are no white female contestants in the Miss Black America Beauty Contest, but there are black female contestants in the Miss America Beauty Contest?

@tinyfaery It wasn’t that you were missing Fluther, it’s that Fluther was missing you…

Political correctness is a pain in the ass. It is legitimizing a desire to argue.

Give it up, and get over it.

Oh god. What, exactly, is your point? Why do you insist on taking hypothetical situations and then attaching your preconceived, imaginary ideas of how a particular group of people would react if it happened?
“and it shouldn’t be looked upon as ran by racist rednecks and bigots?” Really? So if someone dared to think that the movie were racist, this is your premade label for them? So, are you hoping that this will happen so you can start with the name calling?
Allow the process to continue to happen. Allow integration of races, religions, and lfestyles. Let us all learn about each other and accept each the uniqeness of the other. Acknowledge differences, don’t pretend that they do not exist.
And for god’s sake, don’t borrow touble.

__There was a movie called “White Men Can’t Jump”, I don’t think anyone called it reverse racism. LOL__
Oops missed the above statement already mentioned by lily

@Pandora There was a huge cry of reverse racism when that movie came out. I was living in South Georgia at the time so maybe it was more pronounced there than in much of the rest of the country.

@crazyivan I know in Delaware there didn’t seem to be anything said one way or the other. At first people didn’t understand what it was about, then as people went to see it, some thought the title should’ve been, “this white man can’t act”. Woody was horrible or maybe the movie just sucked. Either way, it was all bad, so I think the title thing was moot.
Either way, I don’t think a title is the big issue. It would have to be more about the context.
I could say this one movie is about Latina Women. It could have some elements of truth that fit all different cultures of at least people of a certain prediciment.
Let say a title says for “Latina Women Only” and it talks about the life of a latin hooker.
She automatically has a lot in common with hookers of all races. There may be some things that pertain to her because she is latin but there are other cultures that resemble latin cultures.
Titles are just used to lure people in. And I am sure this movie will do the same, even if it stinks.
There will be contoversey and conflict sells.
Smart selling tactic.

I’m sure that women of all colors could identify with the different struggles that the women in this movie have/will have.

The title of a movie is different than a group or club. Plus, the title was a sign of the times, at the time it was written, and hence appropriate.

Minorities can have groups, and white people can’t, because white people are the majority, but I personally think this should be going away in the US, it has had its’ time. Now, when minorities have black bowling leagues and clubs and even college funds they themselves are separating themselves, I think it works against them.

@JLeslie : They’re not the majority for long, though, I think.

@troubleinharlem that is part of the reason I feel minorities won’t be able to do it for long. Currently minorities make up around 35% of the US population, but that is all minorities lumped together, while still 65% are white. But, I personally feel white gets broken down a little also still, Italians, Irish, etc. Since the 35% is really broken down into smaller percentages of Hispanic, African American, etc., I don’t think the minority necessarily feels the power in their numbers, except in local communities, like Miami for instance is probably half Hispanic (I’m not sure of the actual percentage) and Memphis or Detroit, having very high percentages of black people, those cities know they have power in their numbers, but I think they still feel they are fighting for equality in some ways, and feel they need to pull together within their own group and raise themselves up. Although, my Miami example I think does not apply. My experience is most Cubans in Miami do not feel like they are minorities, do not perceive themselves that way at all. My husband, who is Mexican, also does not really perceive himself that way, he would never seek out a Mexican club or group that excluded others, that sounds almost ridiculous to me when I think about it.

However, interestingly, where my mother-in-law lives there is a “Bronx club” I’m sure if you are from Queens or Brooklyn they will still let you in hahaha so those types of clubs don’t bother me, because it is not really about excluding people, it is about people who have something in common being able to meet each other.

Typically, historically, a white club is to exclude other people, and done in a hateful way.

@john65pennington I asked this question on Fluther several months ago: Why is there not a Miss White America Beauty Contest, if there is a Miss Black America Beauty Contest? Sorry John I don’t think you can ask a question like that because people will miss the crux of the question or it will be over their heads. It is a valid question and of you focused and stayed on point and not if it offended you or not, it is a question that is quite valid. If there was a ”White Ms America” contest even if there was nothing on the official entry form that stated what race you had to be to compete there would have been some backlash; you can’t tell me there wouldn’t be. No one can phantom the larger issue of why in this age of so-called equality certain races get to have their own clubs, contest, but not if you are white. If you are white it has to be because of some sinister motives.

@crazyivan I think it’s kind of petty to get upset when you’re a member of the only group in this nation that has never been persecuted by the majority (white, christian men). Even if I were white if there were stereotypical titles for books or whatever I don’t think I should have to just say ”Eh, we were in charge and not dumped on so no biggie”. It is what it is even if reversed back on a group that traditionally done the most dirt. Just because the US fire bombed and carpet bombed other nation no one was going to say ”Oh it was just the Twin Towers, it is not like all of New York was laid waste like we did Tokyo”.

@Trillian Then you will go on record right here and say if a period movie was made from a book ”Gas The Stinking Jews: War Cry of Nazi Chapter 113” but some wise minded exec thought to shorten the title of the movie to just ”Gas The Stinking Jews” EVERYONE seeing the title knows it is from a longer title and also the book it came from? There will be way many more who wouldn’t than who does. And furthermore they should not read anything at all of the title until they checked out the trailer and once they seen that, the title is OK, says nothing or give a wrong impression? How something is presented even if the best of intentions are desired can still come out wrong, or offensive. But I guess you never get offended by ANYTHING away from Fluther.

@troubleinharlem It is not the content of the movie that is in question or how the content relates to the title, it is the title itself. If you seen a documentary that said ”Why Black Men Can’t Calculate” what would you think? Would you know it came from a series of essays titled ”Why Black Men Can’t Calculate: byproduct of underfunded inner city schools that can’t modernize”? The title don’t really convey the content, certainly not as it is whizzing by on the side of a bus. Some Black people could even get ruffled by the use of the word ”colored”. If you are not from a time or know very little about that time where the use of the word makes sense “colored” could be mistaken as racist. How many people really know the history of the Jim Crow era?

@JLeslie Minorities can have groups, and white people can’t, because white people are the majority, but I personally think this should be going away in the US, it has had its’ time. Just because they happen to have the most numbers is that really a reason they can’t have something for themselves? If they aren’t doing it to say ”The rest of you keep out because you are too inferior” what is the harm?

@Hypocrisy_Central I think I am following your logic. I guess the question I would ask you is what rights you hold dear that have been abridged by the producer’s choice of a movie title? The examples you have given of made-up movie titles are inflammatory for reasons other than any offense taken from their being shortened to slap on a movie. My guess is a movie entitled “For White Guys” would not be considered racist, but rather would be misheard (as 4 white guys as For Colored Girls might similarly be misconstrued) or would be presumed (by the masses) to be directed at the same target audience as the Jackass movies, Police Academy, Animal House, etc.

I actually think white guys might have a case for being offended by titles such as Jackass and Animal House, but instead, they just seem to go see the movies in question. I know I sure can’t figure it out.

@Hypocrisy_Central Well, it is really not about being the majority it is about who holds the power I think. Once we have true equality, maybe what you pose will be ok. But, I think once we have true equality no one will see the need for it. In my mind the true groups in a society are more about socio-economics than race or ethnicity.

@Kayak8 As for your movie proposal “For White Guys” I think you are right that some people will hear it as, or assume 4 White Guys, but even if For White Guys is nderstood, I don’t think there would be a big to do about it; again, because I think the title of a movie is different than a club or group. I find it hysterical that to you Jackass, Animal House, and Police Academy are targeted at white guys, that never occurred to me. I think they are not offended, because they don’t see a subliminal subtitle “white men who make fools of themselves” like you do. Certainly, even if black people perceive those movies as white guys acting stupid, they can still go to the movie to laugh at the white guys. White people go to the movies to watch black people act silly, and we all watch tv shows and stand up comedy that are very “Jewish.”

Are you African American?

@Kayak8 I guess the question I would ask you is what rights you hold dear that have been abridged by the producer’s choice of a movie title? The producers has not blocked any right I have or anyone else for that matter but they are muddying the PC waters which was never clear to begin with. Either we are going to live in a ”real” world or some made up world we want to be in. People want to believe because we have a president that is part black, and Gays can adopt and even marry in some states we turned some page, we haven’t turned much of anything but BS. That young man Clementi who killed himself if we were so PC as the media and all are trying to say we are he would still be making music. As judge Judy would say ”Don’t pee on my leg and tell me its raining”. If we were really PC then either people would be as enraged to hear a title that indicated a minority race equal if it was a title seeming to promote white people or they both would be ignored or at least accepted completely the same.

The simplest answer to this discussion of why minority groups can emphasize color or reference their race in the titles of their works without it being racist – is because they are the minority.

Living in a world where white people and their ways are the de facto standard and your ways are “strange” and “different” and treated as subpar to their makes it important to hold onto your identity. You find yourself titling things in such a way – and it should not be offensive to white people because without knowing it – they have created an environment where minority ways are quietly unacceptable if they don’t mesh well with white culture.

So minorities find themselves titling things in such a way to get the attention of like minded individuals, and those white people who take interest in their culture. It’s not racist to name something after your own culture/race – rather – it’s an attempt to finally come into the limelight after spending so much time in a white culture.

tl;dr – The entire culture is white. Minorities are suffocating under the oppression of “your culture/race is inferior to ours” constantly, everyday.

Just the name of this movie shows how racist we all are…. I think it’s very sad that we all seperate ourselves in such a manner… in my opinion this movie should not be out, period… It proclaims the black community to be better than all others. Did God not create us all?