Social Question

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

Which would you rather have,,, Eternal Life, or Total Enlightenment?

Asked by RealEyesRealizeRealLies (30938points) November 2nd, 2010 from iPhone

Simple question folks.

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

47 Answers

Coloma's avatar

I have both already.

We’re already eternal, our energy will evaporate back into the micro cosm of the universe.
As far as enlightenment…all that really means is recognizing, FEELING, the ‘truth’ of the oneness and interconnectedness of all.

Dropping attachment to finding ones ‘self’ in external forms, accomplishments, monetary gain etc.

FutureMemory's avatar

@Coloma Far out.

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies Eternal Life, that way I could figure out the enlightenment part along the way.

FutureMemory's avatar

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies Are you giving your answer to the question? Or is that directed at me or Coloma?

DrasticDreamer's avatar

My answer was the exact same as @FutureMemory, he beat me to it.

Rarebear's avatar

Neither, actually.

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

bs to @coloma… @fm had at least a reasonable respnse.

the yogi claims that when one person reaches true enlightenment, then everyone will achieve it at that very moment. you wouldn’t argue with the yogi now would you @coloma?

judochop's avatar

I will go with enlightenment. I wanna know what it really feels like to never suffer. To be free, completely free. Free from worry, stress, temptation, greed, envy, lust. Free from every form of desire known to man. Show me the light and I will not be afraid to pass over.

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

@judo… how can one achieve true enlightenment without experiencing the joy of suffering?

ragingloli's avatar

“Enlightenment” is quite a fuzzy term. What does it mean? What does it entail? Right now, that word is completely meaningless, empty, to us.
And eternal life sucks.
We want neither, onegai shimasu.

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

satisfaction… at any cost.

ragingloli's avatar

Too machiavellian for me, so no, thanks.

judochop's avatar

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies You are not asking me to be born that way are you? Are you asking what I would take now? I know suffering and every other thing I posted there, thus my choice.
And enlightenment to me means to be free of suffering and free of human desire. \
Also….There is no joy in suffering. That is why it is called ‘suffering.’

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

Not good enough for you @ragingloli ? ok I give you a third choice, only because you’re my favorite… Perhaps peace will tempt your fancy? What will have you? What would you have? Eternal Life, Total Enlightenment, or Peace?

define each how you will
___________________________

Do not your muscles reek with joyous pain when working out @judochop? Does not the best sex come with a bit of discomfit pleasure? Is there no satisfaction in trickery, and the besting of others, knowing that their suffering (at your hands) will ultimately make them stronger?

How would we know of notions such as compassion, and empathy, sympathy for others, and like virtues, were it not for suffering?
___________________________

What then would you have @Rarebear, if not Eternal Life, or Total Enlightenment?

judochop's avatar

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies In my version of enlightenment there is no sex, trickery, besting others, etc. It is free from all human desire, like I said. So the answer to that question is no.

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

Yet those notions exist… you may be beyond them, in your state of Total Enlightenment, but they exist beyond you nonetheless. How may one be in a state of Total Enlightenment and not have embodied all known (and unknown) emotions and states of being? How may one achieve Total Enlightenment and not have empathy (which can only be known by association)?

ragingloli's avatar

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies
The Galactic Security Council already has made plans to bring peace to Terra.
Last time I heard, it was some sort of Virus.

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

figures it would come as a code

judochop's avatar

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies by following the teachings of the Buddha, that is how.

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

Buddha may be beyond suffering, but he does not deny its existence, and relevance to others. Otherwise he would not be suggesting that suffering may be overcome. Suffering is a real entity to the Buddha, perhaps even more so to him, than those who are actually enduring the suffering.

judochop's avatar

I never denied that there is/was/will always be suffering amongst the Earth. And the Buddha does not suggest you overcome suffering, his whole point of existence is/was to learn and teach people how to overcome suffering and desire.

DrasticDreamer's avatar

I think arguing about how to achieve enlightenment is silly. It’s a personal thing, one that can’t be taught to others. Even if someone that achieved it left explicit instructions on how everyone else could achieve it, people would follow the instructions wrong. Even then, I don’t think instructions could ever be left, because the ways in which people reach it will be different.

Or something.

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

I get what you mean, but you just stated what should/could, shouldn’t/couldn’t be done to achieve enlightenment, while stating that it cannot be taught.

judochop's avatar

@DrasticDreamer argument? I think I have the opportunity to teach someone something new about something they may or may not know. Correcting someones mislead view by typed words is not an argument. It is a conversation on the internet. Just because we are not holding hands and stroking each other with GA’s does not make for an argument. I could learn something, @RealEyesRealizeRealLies could learn something…..

DrasticDreamer's avatar

@judochop (I was more referring to @RealEyesRealizeRealLies ) Especially because he asked which people would prefer. ;)

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

ok ok yes I’m in an argumentative mood… we all know I’m harmless and just want to have some fun after a few vodka/clubs at the pool hall

But seriously, I think we can do mankind (and chicks) a great service if we settle this enlightenment issue here and now. Kapeesh?

DrasticDreamer's avatar

@judochop It’s okay, I’m holding everyone’s hands and stroking you all with GAs, so I’ve got it all covered.

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

Alas! True Enlightenment!

May you live forever @DrasticDreamer!

AstroChuck's avatar

Total enlightenment? No thanks. I’ll take immortality please. Ignorance is bliss.

megan5555's avatar

Immortal would not be good because in the future you will see all the bad that will happen when the world comes to an end.

FutureMemory's avatar

@megan5555 When is that going to happen?

lillycoyote's avatar

I’ll go for total enlightenment. I’m thinking that total enlightenment might show me that eternal life, an eternal life of a purely corporeal, material kind and physical kind, on a purely material plane/level could be the wrong choice

If that makes and sense, it’s kind of a mirror image of @FutureMemory‘s answer.

megan5555's avatar

Look, one day the earth has to give up on us but that wont be until like the year 5000. It does not matter when the earths going to die, what matters is that it is going to happen, So, thats why i do not want to have eternal life.

FutureMemory's avatar

What happens around the year 5000?

mattbrowne's avatar

How can anyone with total enlightenment not know how to become immortal?

ucme's avatar

Neither. Who the fuck wants to live forever? As for total enlightenment, well nobody likes a smart arse.

boxer3's avatar

Ever read tuck everlasting? hahah.
no, I can’t say I’d like to live forever.
Total enlightenment
over eternal
life any day

Coloma's avatar

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies

Is that so?

And you are so omnipotent and grandiose as to feel you can define anothers experience?

No bullshit involved in my response.

Enlightenment is all about oneness and knowing oneself beyond ego, which is the false self.

I could go on, but, your dismissive attitude prevents me from doing so.

Another byproduct of enlightenment is not allowing ego to fight with with other egos, identifying with a right/wrong polarity.

If you need to make me wrong I can accept that. lol

iamthemob's avatar

If the choice is mandated, total enlightenment. I don’t know what the nature of the universe or age of existence will be, and what will happen when it all ends. But if in the end there is eternal nothing, I’d rather not be conscious for that. If there’s some afterlife, why the hell would I want to live forever. And if there is some judgmental, foaming-at-the-mouth form of god up there, total enlightenment will allow me to avoid all the necessary pitfalls to snatch me a shot at heaven.

iamthemob's avatar

Another byproduct of enlightenment is not allowing ego to fight with with other egos, identifying with a right/wrong polarity.

You know…I think if that’s true, a really enlightened person wouldn’t have really responded here.

Just my opinion, but I think you might be self-defeating. ;-)

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

I’s jus’ pokin’ at ya’ Coloma to see how much enlightenment squirted out… all in fun, sorry…

Coloma's avatar

@iamthemob

Maybe. Maybe not. ;-)

There is a big difference between expressing ones ‘self’ and engaging in egoic acrobatics from a place of being over identified with being right as a way to bolster ones ego even more.

As I mentioned, I am perfectly okay if someone ‘needs’ to make me wrong or dismiss my experience, but..it does not mean it is true.

I also agree 100% with @judochop

Another component of ‘enlightenment’ is realizing that suffering is a choice and being free of desire, the need for ‘more’ to be added unto one to prop up the false self from the outside in.

This has been one of my greatest breakthroughs, detaching from anything having to be a certain way in order for me to feel happy, whole, complete. It is very liberating to ‘see’ the ways in whuch we attempt to strengthen our false self through external and egoic gain.

Basking in ones being is enough, as it should be. ;-)

Bottom line, if one has to ask what enlightenment is, they have not attained it.

The one life, no separation, and this is not something that can be recognized or conceptualized, it has to be experienced on a deep feeling level.

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies

No apologies needed, but thanks anyway. ;-)

Even enlightenment is subject to egos gyrations…so many misconceptions that ‘spiritual’ people do this or don’t do that, more separation, elitism, ego, hahaha

One of my fav. ‘spiritual’ authors, Eckhart Tolle speaks of this…he says people will say to him ’ you drink coffee…but you wrote a ‘spiritual’ book?’ His response is ’ Oh, I’m sorry’ lol and now he wears a ballcap to starbucks.

Enlightenment does not mean one dresses in sack cloth, renounces all wordly possessions and moves to a cave to live in silence for years. lol

It CAN manifest as that as well, but, ‘enlightenment is not about habit, or personality, or adhering to some strict mandate of what an enlightened person ‘should’ look like, sound like, etc.

Puppetji was an enlightend guru and he was quite the boisterous character, colorful language, smoked, drank.

Just more false concepts.

Most serial killers don’t LOOK like serial killers, and most ‘enlightened’ people don’t look like the images promoted. ;-)

Paradox's avatar

A happy eternal life with those people closest to me. I’m not even sure I know what the true meaning of “total enlightment” really is since it would have to be something that with our normal senses we wouldn’t even be able to comprehend.

Coloma's avatar

@Paradox

All enlightenment means is no separation. Feeling the interconnectedness of everything.

Understanding that you are not separate from the rocks, the trees, the sky, the bird, your dog, your friend.

Everything is one, same stuff just arranged a little bit differently.

God is you and you are God.

It is not an intellectual concept or thought form, it is a deep feeling.

Ever have a moment of rapture while gazing at a magnificent sunset, or standing in a beautiful natural space and FEELING that connection on a cellular level?

Then you have had glimpses of enlightenment.

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