Can you please explain to my friend why he should not date an eighteen year old girl? What do men get out of dating much younger women, anyway?

Because it’s gross. Period. If he’s still interested in a year or two, then they can be together. And if it’s meant to be, then it will be when they both grow up. Ugh, this shit makes me angry

I’m rooting for him.

Don’t be utterly ridiculous. You’re an intelligent person and you pose a question like that.

No, I could not explain why. I can’t think of any rational explanation.

It’s a multitude of things. It’s also a two-way street. If a guy wants to go out with a much younger girl, chances are she wants to go out with a much older guy. Personally, I find “mature” guys more attractive too. I can’t really explain why, but it is what it is. If that’s what she wants, then let her go with it, she’ll realise soon enough if it’s right or wrong for her to date him.

I wish I could high-five your friend.

Legal is legal.

Thanks for the thoughtful, coherent, and well-justified answers, everyone!

The idea of this being wrong is a new phenomenon from an historical perspective. My mother was 16 when she married my father. (He was 22.)
18 is the bar modern society has set to make it “OK.”
Where do you think the bar SHOULD be?

@Judi

She’s making the poor assumption that someone eighteen cannot be mature enough to date someone that’s twenty-seven. (I think)

Perhaps because if she says she is 19 she is possibly really much younger.

I remember being 18. I remember being lost, alone, scared, confused, and naive. In the last eight years I have fallen in love, had my heart broken, moved across the country, started and finished college, started graduate school, learned how to manage my finances, met people who shaped and changed me, lost people I loved more than I ever knew possible, seen new lives be created and start to turn into little people, and a hundred thousand million other tiny things.

And I am not even my friend’s age yet. The experiences that separate them are vast beyond measurements. I cannot conceive of any reciprocal, mutually respectful, egalitarian relationship that could come from this.

What I can see is men fetishizing and objectifying girls and their youth. And I have trouble interpreting these “high five” and related comments as anything else.

@nikipedia sounds like you’re still naive if you ask questions like this, not to mention judgmental, it’s a pretty offensive question although i know that wasn’t intentional.

“Explain to your friend why he should not date an eighteen year old girl?”
Is he married? is he looking for commitment? if not I see no reason as to why he should not date an adult 9 years his junior.

“what do men get out of dating much younger women?”
I hope we are all worldly enough to know the answer to that one.

No I can’t. It’s only nine years difference, I know of relationships that have worked with much more than that. My mother in law married at 18 to a man 9 years her senior, and 52 years later they’re still happily married.

18 year olds can sometimes be as mature as 27-year-olds and 27-year-olds can sometimes be as immature as an 18-year-old. If they’re close enough in maturity level, share enough interests and ideals, and love each other, then why not?

I don’t see why it’s your business? Sorry! I used to date men in their 30s when I was 18. I liked older men. They were more interesting to me. I think you should leave them to it. They may be perfect for each other. Just because she is 18 doesn’t mean she is an immature idiot. She may be very mature for her years.

If nine years doesn’t matter, then 18 year olds can start dating 9 year olds, right?

They don’t love each other. They don’t have anything in common. Thy have never even met. My friend found her on an online dating site and asked for my advice.

“If nine years doesn’t matter, then 18 year olds can start dating 9 year olds, right?”

Come on now, don’t be daft.

How do you know they won’t love each other after they meet and get to know each other better? How do you know they don’t and won’t develop many common interests? If your friend wants to date her, and she wants to date him, they are adults and can make that choice. Just because you were immature at 18 doesn’t mean she is. How can you judge someone you don’t know?

You know, lately I had been worried that the quality of discourse on this site had dropped, so I really have to thank you, @Mz_Lizzy and @meiosis for removing any doubt from my mind.

Let me juxtapose some lines for you, with emphasis, and see if you can detect a lack of internal consistency in your thought processes:
you were immature at 18
How can you judge someone you don’t know?

It’s only nine years difference
Then 18 year olds can start dating 9 year olds
Don’t be daft
.
.
.
.
.
Okay, fine, I’ll just give it away. In the first, you managed to simultaneously judge a stranger for judging while criticizing that stranger for judging strangers.

In the second, you either willfully ignored or completely missed the point that nine years means nothing; which nine years is of paramount importance.

@nikipedia

Your statement about 18-year-olds being allowed to date 9-year-olds is a fallacy and you know it. Don’t be surprised when people respond critically to it. Obviously the vast majority of people claiming that nine years is unimportant are referring to the scope of legal non-pedophilic relationships.

They don’t love each other. They don’t have anything in common. Thy have never even met. My friend found her on an online dating site and asked for my advice.

Then that’s the real problem here, not the age difference.

@DominicX, you are smarter than this. Come on. The very point that I was making, which I have already clarified, was that the nine year argument is effectively fallacious. I disagree that once some legal threshold (being eighteen) has been crossed that suddenly all age gaps are equal. And I think you do too.

To address your second point, what is the real problem? Online dating? Not being in love? These things would be completely irrelevant if she was of an appropriate age.

@nikipedia… you said I remember being 18. I remember being lost, alone, scared, confused, and naive that to me says “immature”. Not everyone is the same though. I left home at 17 and managed just fine.

I also left home at 17.

@nikipedia

I didn’t say they were all equal. But to assume that because she’s 18 and he’s 27 that this cannot work is fallacious as well. Not all 18-year-olds are the same. It might be more likely to work out if she was 25 and he was 34 because a person is more likely to be mature at that age, but that doesn’t mean that an 18/27 relationship is doomed for failure or “inappropriate”.

She may very well be of an appropriate age. I don’t think you know enough about her to say whether or not she’s of an appropriate age (based on what you’ve said so far). Numbers alone don’t predict a relationship’s success. The problem it seems to me is that they are not in love and have nothing in common; that shows that the relationship is going nowhere and it wouldn’t matter what age they were; those things are relevant regardless of age.

@nikipedia; you still haven’t answered my question. At what point would a nine year age gap be appropriate? 21? 25?
I married my husband when I was 29 and he was 40. Was that inappropriate?
What is your bar?
In many cultures, and less than 100 years ago, she would have been considered an old maid at 18.

Seriously? Has @nikipedia been replaced by a troll? This can’t be a genuine discussion…
.
.
Well, it does violate the “half your age, plus seven” rule. ...Which is an absurd “rule” to begin with, but there you have it.

My first instinct is to side with you, @nikipedia. In most cases, I don’t think an 18 year old and a 27 year old will make a good match. That said, I don’t know this 18 year old or this 27 year old, so it’s entirely possible that they will be fine. I don’t think they will be, but how will they know unless they try? I got married at 19, and while I wouldn’t recommend that for most people, for me, it was fine.

What does it matter? Your friend is a adult and can make his own decisions about his life…

Serious relationship/fun relationship/just for kicks….What ever makes 2 adults happy….I say go for it….

What about Hugh?....The 84-year-old who got engaged to the 24-year-old Playboy ‘bunny’ last Christmas..

@coffeenut I wouldn’t exactly say Hugh Hefner is a good model to follow. Ick.

@nikipedia There’s no inconsistency in my thought processes. I consistently think you’re daft for comparing a 27–18 relationship with an 18–9 one.

@nikipedia You know, lately I had been worried that the quality of discourse on this site had dropped, so I really have to thank you, @Mz_Lizzy and @meiosis for removing any doubt from my mind.

lol, the irony.

As long as no one is being used or anything like that, I don’t see anything wrong with it. I’m 21 and my boyfriend is 28. Some women just like dating or being with older men (and vice versa). I’d never date a guy my own age unless I was over 30…

JENNY
How old are you?
EDWARD
Eighteen.
JENNY
I’m eight. That means when I’m
eighteen, you’ll be 28. And when I’m
28, you’ll only be 38.
EDWARD
(a little wary)
You’re pretty good at arithmetic.
JENNY
And when I’m 38, you’ll be 48. And
that’s not much difference at all.
Eager to get off this subject…
EDWARD
Sure is a lot now, though, huh?

Just tell him that at his advanced age, he might be too weak to push the stroller.;)

My mom and dad were 9 years apart in age. She met him when she was 19 and he was 28. They got married a year later and had a great marriage until he died at age 46. You can’t judge by what one couple does though. It all depends on the maturity levels of the people you are talking about and their willingness to commit to a relationship. But that would be at any age difference.

Screw it. If two people are happy together good for them.

So much change happens between 18 and 23, and again between 23 and 27. While there are extremely mature 18 year olds out there, the likelihood that her sense of self is strongly developed yet; a lot can change once you start making your own decisions. On the other hand, there is an appeal to date an older man – sexually experienced, financially stable, his sense of self is a little better developed; you’re actually dating a man, not a boy. An 18 year old is pretty much an “adult with training wheels” and to a certain extent, he gets the opportunity to pass along his recently gained wisdom about life, and shape a person.

There will be some problems with socializing with friends – she can’t go to bars with his friends, and at 27, going out can often be a big part of socialization, and for her friends, he’s someone that can buy them alcohol.

Aside from that, too much depends on the individuals to answer this question.

18 and 27 is not bad. I have my doubts as to whether or not the relationship would work, but no problems with it happening at all.

Why is it any of your business? You are saying that because of your own experiences, this relationship can’t possibly work?! I’m glad my boyfriend’s “friend’s” weren’t trying to talk him out of being with me because of the age gap and ours is much bigger than this one. Should I finish with the man that I love (and who loves me) because of your experiences? She’s 18 and he’s 27, I don’t see why you think this relatively small age gap is a problem but if they don’t see it as a problem then it isn’t. They are both old enough to make their own decisions on this matter and I think you should accept that and worry about your own life.

@BarnacleBill Bravo. I couldn’t have said it better myself.

Even if you suspect that your friend is only interested in fetishizing her youth, @nikipedia, the young woman is now an adult, and it’s her business now to learn what she will and won’t tolerate from a relationship. As for your friend, it’s his lookout to learn whether or not the only standard in a relationship that will make him happy is a woman’s appearance and youth. If they’re both adults, then it’s not anyone’s place to say anything unless you find out there’s abuse. Even then, it’s only on an advisory basis. Adults are free to make choices, and free to live with the consequences of those choices.

If she’s immature, then this is how she wises up. And this is how your friend wises up. There’s no other teacher but experience.

Don’t be ridiculous on the 18 versus 9 , or 10 versus newborn argument.
They are both adults. They are still figuring themselves still out. They are dating, not getting married.
Yes, they are going to have different perspectives on things with the age difference. So what, everyone does. e age of the person does not measure their maturity.
I know many people who have a sizeable age gap. Several more than 9. In fact I know one couple that were 14 years difference and married young. They were the most amazing couple to see and today are still going strong in their senior years.
It sounds to me like this is your issue and not the 18 year olds.

“If there’s grass on the field, play ball” I was always told lol jk. And 27 is far from retirement from the game. So is it also not okay for 27 year old guys to find 18 year old girls attractive? That’s what you’re implying with this question. That said, I have a friend who is married to a man 10 years her senior and they are great people and are very happy together. And I didn’t read all the posts, but what @ilana says is true, it’s a 2-way street.

I see @nikipedia‘s point. She’s not stupid at all, and my experience on Fluther tells me she’s socially capable too, lol… so I don’t question that at all.

I think of it sort of like a cat’s lifespan. The first year of a cat’s life is about 20 years, maturity wise… and then after that the scale drops dramatically. I want to say four years, but I might be wrong. Anyway, I think it’s kind of backwards with humans. Years 1–17ish mature in real time, but you gain more momentum after that. That’s what makes a 9 year difference at 18 different than a 9 year difference at 25. There’s a whole world of difference.

But I know that at 18, I’d been through more than most people ever go through, and I was mature for my age. I had to be. I think once you hit 18, 19, 20… it’s relative. She might be really mature, and she might not be. Hell, he might be really IMMATURE. So while I definitely see @nikipedia‘s point, I can’t really say for sure without knowing either of the two people she’s talking about.

Ah, so this is a “do you agree with me, or do you really agree with me?” type of question.

In the future, could you please let us know in advance? Thanks.

The wording of this question was unambiguous. I asked for reasons my grown friend should not date a young girl. You were indeed fairly warned.

To those of you suggesting this is none of my business, my friend specifically asked for my advice.

@nikipedia: Okay, from my personal experience in the last year, dating a 20 year old as a 26 year old:

Does she have a strong sense of independence? Does she still live with her parents? Does she pay all of her own expenses from income EARNED, not handed to her?

That would be the biggest hurdle, I think, to get over first. From experience.

Reasons why not should be based purely on the facts of the case. We know nothing other than the age. So here’s a list of ten arguments that, right or wrong, could be used to argue against the relationship:

1) She’s not mature enough.
2) It’s only about sex.
3) Her interests are too much different.
4) She wants to party all the time and you are getting ready to settle down.
5) She doesn’t know half of what you know, and conversations will be boring (but #2).
6) There will be an unequal power relationship.
7) You’ll get tired of always teaching her. Eventually.
8) She’ll always be trying to please you, like a little puppy.
9) She’ll manipulate you with sex.
10) I hope you like take-out.

@nikipedia

When you find me on the same side of an issue with @mammal, then you can be sure that your own position is the outlier.

On the other hand, I can agree with you that they will both probably have their hearts broken, but they heal. She will change, and so will he. Who’s to say which of them will change the more?

Maybe he knows that he’ll just be a way point in her journey, and he’s okay with that, providing her with whatever it is that she wants and needs for this part of it, and ready to step aside later. Maybe he’ll be a serial Svengali to younger women for the rest of his life, and he’s okay with that, too.

Without knowing each of them pretty intimately (and you seem to know only your same-age friend), it’s impossible for any of us to say that “this is a problem”, much less “why” it is.

@nikipedia do you have feelings for this friend other than platonic?

@WasCy Dude, I was going to say the same thing about agreeing with @mammal! Weird, isn’t it?

No.

@poofandmook: she still lives with her parents and does not have a job. I believe she may still be in high school but will have to confirm with my friend.

”I asked for reasons my grown friend should not date a young girl.”
.
Well, you see, he isn’t. He’s dating a legal adult.

She is not a young girl, she is a young woman.

@bob_ if you and I are in agreement, then that’s positively eerie. I’m talking “apocalypse” here.

In my opinion the majority of PEOPLE, male or female that are attracted to those much younger than themselves is usually based on a fragile ego that needs to be stroked by someone they perceive as ‘less than’.

Someone they can impress, ‘teach’ as in sexual conquests and a great way to be in a relationship with someone too naive to really see that IF this person were ALL THAT, they would be comfortable relating to and seeking a communion of peers and equality.

Seducing a younger person is the way of the narcissist that can’t hold their own with someone closer in age.

As I mentioned it’s a two way street that knows no gender boundaries.

I have an ex friend that was obsessed with a 26 yr. old guy when she was 48 and had a son just a few years younger.

Her low self esteem and gross insecurities about aging ( she is a drop dead gorgeous woman ) made her chase this young guy around for over 3 years in her attempts to sexually seduce him and she was very hung up on ‘teaching’ him from a sexual perspective.

Right now a good male friend who is in his 50’s has just been told by his 50 yr. old female partner whom he has been in relationship with for the past 5 years that she is extremely attracted to a 22 yr. old guy.

It’s ALL so pathetic!

The whole ‘Cougar’ thing is pathetic as far as I am concerned.

‘Cougar’ as in strong, capable, mature women with moxey yes!
As in robbing the cradle to puff up ones sagging ego, no! ;-)

I prefer intelligent, mature, men in my bed, not wet behind the ears baby boys.

Obviously the gap narrows and now women are just as likly to go for the youngsters as men always have.

Problem is, that most of the time it’s nothing more than a use, which is what makes it a poor choice the majority of the time.

We’re not talking about two people who met by chance, really liked each other, and decided it was worth the complications involved for their shared feelings.

We’re talking about a guy cruising the “dating buffet” online, and picking out an 18 year old to possibly start a relationship with, it’s the equivalent of driving by the highschool when school lets out looking for dates.

“She’s hot, stop the car, we should offer her a ride home”

And apparently everyone thinks that’s cool.

@nikipedia – tell your friend to imagine going to prom with her, the conversations he’ll get to have with her friends. Ask him if he wants to be her first failed adult relationship.

@Coloma I have to disagree with you. I don’t see it as pathetic. Each to his own, and it doesn’t mean that someone has low self esteem if they are attracted to someone younger.

@chyna

I am not saying it is impossible for two people to develop a healthy attraction inspite of a big age difference, just that the vast majority of the time these attractions are based on dysfunction rather than true clarity and wisdom.

If both parties wish to consent to such a liason, eyes wide open, fine, but usually one person gets used and using another human being as an ego prop is unhealthy and unkind.

based on the fact that she has never left home, and does not have a job, I would not classify her as an ADULT. Maybe if she were in college, that would be one thing… MAYBE. But her never leaving home and not having employment says to me that she’s not yet an adult (age and biology do not an adult make), and so, I think this is probably a pretty big mistake on his part.

I also disagree, @Coloma, that this is a general rule. It may be true “often”; I have no doubt of that. As for me, the few times that I have been in relationships with much younger women it was they who started pursuing me. Every time. I’m attracted to much younger women, and I won’t deny that. But I know how stereotypically middle-aged-male that seems to chase after those girls / women, and I don’t want to be perceived as cartoonish or creepy, so I don’t pursue young women. But they do pursue me sometimes. (No brag, just fact.)

Every time it has happened I’ve asked before things even get started, “Why? Why me? With all you have going for you (because the ones who have made their interest known are not children, in need of a daddy, or even a sugar-daddy), what do you find in me that interests you so much?” The answers are all a variation on: I like your maturity, stability, patience, attitude, intelligence… whatever. These young women (and there have been more than a few) could have their pick of anyone they want in their age group, and they don’t want that. Thank god for that, is all I can say (when that happens).

@WasCy

Each to his own, I too have been approached by very young men but, not my thing.
I don’t want to be a mommy figure to a young man nor a ‘Mrs. Robinson’ hookup.

I think as supposedly ‘mature’ adults we have an obligation of integrity to know better, regardless of the ego flattery.

If someone is not truly interested in a healthy relationship with another we shouldn’t fuck them for recreational purposes. THAT is integrity at work.

@Coloma I am more attracted to younger men and they to me, but I never once have used them, nor do I consider myself as a “Couger”. I think that is a derogatory term and see no need for it. I also do not feel as if I am a mommy figure.

@nikipedia So very sorry I have derailed your post. I will stop now.

My ex husband dated an 19 yr old. And had the nerve to introduce her to my daughter. All was fine for a couple of months, but when the 30 something year old man didn’t feel like going out until 3 or 4, it got bored.

Compatibility wise, it doesn’t make sense. However, there are the rare exceptions. Generally, I’m not a huge fan of it, considering my daughter turned 17 today…well, let’s just say this hits a little too close to home.

@chyna

Again, a singular exploration or attraction is one thing, everyone is only human.
However, the fact is that anyone that consistently pursues those much younger than themselves has some psychological issues that they are not addressing. Some ‘need’ to be in control, to seduce, teach, or validate their sexuality by being able to seduce one much younger or older. Just the facts, sorry.

Thank you, @poofandmook. I completely agree. The fact that we have a law that says, “okay, you can call yourself an adult on your 18th birthday” does not mean that you actually become wise and responsible and capable on that day. And I think everyone on this thread is aware of this, which is why I am so shocked by this “legal is legal” attitude. Sure it’s legal, but that doesn’t make it a good idea.

The rush to judgment here is just overwhelming. It was not until your post—FORTY SEVEN QUIPS IN—that anyone explicitly asked for more information. That did not stop the first few dozen responders from giving harsh and unequivocal answers.

@nikipedia

What people are responding to is the assumption made in this question that a 27/18 relationship cannot work based on the ages of the people alone and nothing else. No other information was provided; for all the answerers know, you had no other information and were assuming that any 27/18 relationship can’t work. It seemed like you were arguing against the very thing you were arguing for. You were saying just because someone is 18, it doesn’t make them ready for a relationship like this and most people were saying just because someone is 18, it doesn’t make them not ready for it. Some would be and some wouldn’t. The age doesn’t automatically determine the success of the relationship. However, it might be more likely that an 18-year-old is not mature enough for such a relationship. And based on the additional information you gave later about them having nothing in common and about her not having experience with independence, it sounds like it would not work out anyhow.

I agree with @bob_ IMHO this question seems really to be about gathering opinions that agree with the OP versus being open to other jellies points of view.

@nikipedia : I’m just curious, stepping in at this late date, what’s wrong with them simply meeting? As far as I can tell from what you’ve shared with us, you’re friend wants advice about dating someone he’s never met, and there is a 9 year age difference. Maybe they won’t like each other. Maybe when conversation is spontaneous and in person they’ll disappoint each other. What harm can come of just meeting each other?

The one major drawback I can think of is that for dating a barely legal girl, is that he will get the death glare from every woman around his age and older for nabbing the spring chicken and not the ‘old’ hen.

There may be issues with two people with that big of an age spread being at different points in their life and wanting different things, but that is a matter completely unique to the situation. Not every 18 year old is immature and not every 28 year old is mature and/or established.

@DominicX, I often find that when details are provided early on in a question, they unnecessarily bias the answers. I much prefer for responders to ask for the information they want, since this is an interactive forum.

Here, there was little asking, and lots of judging.

I never said anything about what kind of relationship an 18 year old is capable of. I think a highly likely outcome of this scenario is that he will have sex with her because she is young, sexy, vulnerable, and easily influenced, and she will end up feeling used and stupid. This seems far more likely to me than that they will meet and discover that despite their wildly different levels of life experience and emotional development, they are meant for each other and will live happily ever after.

In nine years, I think you will look back on this thread and your position will be very different. I just cannot get over the picture of myself at 18, and how wildly different that person was from who I am now.

@JilltheTooth: The advice I ultimately gave him was “sure, meet up, but DON’T TRY TO HAVE SEX WITH HER ON THE FIRST DATE.”

@nikipedia

I agree.

I don’t feel my responses have been judging, just the voice of wisdom, maturity and knowledge speaking along with my own idea of scruples.

Hell, the vast majority of ALL relationships fail, why stack the deck? lol

@nikipedia Okay, ace advice. But that’d be true no matter what ages they were.

Also, it occurred to me to wonder (and I haven’t read all the replies carefully, so I’m sorry if this is a repeat question and has been answered) you find 27/18 so shocking and compare it to 18/9… What if you adjusted the ages in the other direction and they were 36/27? I mean, you said that you yourself have been in relationships with an even larger age gap than that. I don’t understand why this should be a big deal.

You also said you remember being 18. Well… So do I. It was the most confident, well-adjusted and self-assured I’ve ever been. At 19—jobless and still living at home—I was in a relationship with someone who was more than twice my age. Our personalities, interests and maturity levels complemented each other and worked quite nicely. We enjoyed our time together, eventually the relationship played itself out, and we amiably parted ways. We’re still friendly and speak on occasion. I’m not trying to suggest your situation is the uncommon one; I’m just saying mine happens, too, and nobody can be certain which it will be without giving it a shot. The knee-jerk “THAT IS SO WRONG” reaction just really bugs me and I have a hard time not thinking a little less of people who have it. :-\

@nikipedia said he met her on an online dating site and that they don’t have much in common. That says to me that he was specifically looking for someone younger to date. You put in your preferences first and the website pulls up a bunch of people who match those preferences.

That’s the part that doesn’t sit right with me, his questionable motives. Age gaps in relationships aren’t the problem; two people can meet and be genuinely interested in each other and have things in common even if there’s a big difference in their ages. I’ve done it.

This guy’s approach doesn’t look like that. It seems like, instead of meeting a person who happens to be eighteen, he sees her as an eighteen-year-old who happens to be a person.

@nikipedia

I will agree that there was not a lot of asking, but I suppose you and I use this site differently. I tend to include as many details as possible in the question unless I am asking a general question. This didn’t seem to be all that general since you cited a specific example and it’s difficult to make a general statement on what 18-year-olds are capable of, since they vary, though there are tendencies toward certain things (as I have been saying).

And certainly my opinion may change but I am by no means implying that I at 19 would enter a relationship with a 28-year-old. I have no desire to do such a thing; I would not expect such a thing to work for me. But I understand that some 19 and 18-year-olds would be capable of making such a relationship work and that’s why I can’t write off a relationship immediately based on age alone.

Geesh. Your friend should not date an 18 year old girl because it makes him appear like a sleaze ball. IMO, men do this to give themselves an ego boost, to brag to their friends and to be able to be the dominant one in the relationship. I’d ask him to ask himself why a woman closer to his age isn’t a desirable partner. Basically, it’s just icky.

Now, I met my wife a week before she turned 21 and I was 27; there is a six year difference between us. Her family was not too happy. One Christmas her mom even called me a cradle robber. What nobody new is that we loved eachother from day one. She is still the more mature one in the relationship. Almost 10 years later and we are going strong.

I guess my point is that you never know. Sure, this thing with your friend probably won’t last and people will get hurt, but that’s life.

And don’t forget, men are just pigs; poisoned by testosterone. They’ll do anything they can to get a piece of ass. (Most men, that is.)

I actually agree with @psychocandy.

Also, don’t forget that women are just crazy bitches, who’ll date men even when they know they’re not good for them. Well, some women.

Well, now that we’ve solved the worlds dating dilemmas whats next? lol

@psychocandy Was your first paragraph about men dating younger girls saracastic or are you saying that it was perfectly ok for you to date a younger woman because you are a woman?

@nikipedia With the rest of the info you have given us since my last response I think the problem you have is with your friends attitude to women in general and not this particular relationship. You have assumed he is using her for sex and nothing else basically. This is the problem not the age gap. My much older than me boyfriend certainly doesn’t use me for sex and, if he does, then he is incredibly good at acting like the best friend I ever had as well as my lover. I am a real advocate for strong friendships before relationships as they build a more solid foundation that isn’t just sexual. Maybe the advice you should give this guy is, before he jumps into bed with her, really get to know her and decide whether he could be friends with her first and formeost. This is important in all relationships, not just one where there is an age gap.

Is a 6 year difference the same as what Niki is talking about? And yes, relationships between women are very different. There is no way you could know that unless you have been in one. Just the fact that procreation is off the table makes a world of difference. The fact that gender norms do not exists often puts women on even playing fields.

Hetero relationships are not at all the same as same-sex relationships.

This is so off topic.

@psychocandy Just asking. Sorry.

Well there are two issues to discuss here…whether a 30 year old can date an 18 year old has been covered – I agree with @augustlan and @cak (in that, there are rare times where maturity levels line up and it works but these times are rare but it is because of these rare times that we must not judge)...the second issue is why do older men like dating younger women…I suppose each of them would have their own reasons and some would be shallow, truly and some wouldn’t be. In our culture, it’s more acceptable for a much older man to be with a younger woman than the reverse but our society polices the relationship anyhow but throwing labels like ‘gold digger’ and ‘cradle-robber’ at those that try. Because some people still think beauty and status are acceptable exchangeable currencies when it comes to this ‘love’ of theirs, it ends up being older status for younger tight ass (you can see the sexist patriarchal implications). Psychologists have tried to find an answer to this ‘problem’ by talking about the ‘daddy complex’ and the such (which I think many people have, regardless of gender or age). Others have analyzed these kinds of relationships in terms of economic consequences. If my own 30 year old friend said ‘I want to date this 18 year old’, I’d raise my eyebrows a bit in that kind of ‘do you really think that’ll work?’ but ultimately would support them anyway because they are considered adults (whether a person becomes an adult just because they turn 18 is highly questionable for me, though, because it’s so arbitrarily drawn that age and the new things 18 year olds can do.).

Oh, hey, I thought of a legitimate reason: she’s more likely to be inexperienced in bed.

@bob_ GA That’s a good reason.

Well said! @Simone_De_Beauvoir

As always, there are many truths.

@bob_

So you woudn’t take issue in using her for her sandwiches, is that what you’re saying? lol

@Coloma We’re trying to have a serious conversation here.

But, for the record, sandwich-making does not discriminate based on age, sex, race or any other factor.

I guess, having been on both sides of the older / younger divide (when I was much younger I had two wonderful relationships – not just ‘hookups’ – with considerably older women, and since I’ve been separated I’ve had great relationships – that word again – with considerably younger women) I don’t see an ‘ick’ factor. Older women are not necessarily “old women”, and neither are older men “old men”. And in any case, who really cares about wrinkles and that stuff, anyway? I didn’t then, and I don’t now. In most cases and all other things being equal, I prefer to relate to contemporaries, because we can each relate to being in elementary school when JFK was shot, and other events of that nature. Those are easier conversations to have than “Who was JFK?” and “Yeah, but where were you on V-J Day?” But when I have had younger partners who can converse intelligently otherwise, then “contemporary experience” is just one of many interesting things to talk about. In fact, it’s kind of fun to emphasize the ‘Let’s see now, when you were starting kindergarten I was in my first real job after college…’ thing. It helps to keep a lot of things in perspective. And “who has the power” in a relationship is only peripherally and incidentally related to age, too. Or money, for that matter.

Not your thing? Fine. There are lots of things that I don’t particularly care for, either, but it doesn’t make them “icky” just because I prefer to avoid them. The judgmentalism coming down in this thread is… enlightening. Not in a good way.

@WasCy Agreed. Again, this is a momentous occasion.

It’s a beautiful thing when it happens.

I am only advocating making all of one’s decisions and choices from a place of wisdom, full consciousness and integrity.

In doing so I maintain most any topic of potential controversy would become obsolete if these principals were employed with consistency.

I don’t know if this has been said, and if so, sorry, but it’s a long thread! I would imagine that the maturity level is probably about equal between an 18 year old girl and a 27 yr old man, especially as regards actually settling down to one relationship.

@faye

True. Good point, considering men do, often, lag behind women by a decade or more emotionally. haha

Actually, from a purely developmental place, it is in a womans best interest to be with a mature man during the family raising years.

I have long joked that it’s a wonder the species has made it this far with the huge chasm in the developmental cycles of men and women.

Rediculous creatures we are!

I’m all for whatever relationships make people happy, as long as both people know what they are getting in to and are up front about their intentions.

Let’s fill in some blanks about dating an 18 year old as outlined in this question…

She can’t drink legally (providing her alcohol is illegal and could be seen as predatory, which is a bigger deal than just “illegal” should anything go wrong)
Still in high school
She lives at home (her parents have some say in how she lives, even if indirectly)
She does not have money of her own

If those are all true, then to me, 16, 17, & 18 year olds are going to be very similar until they have some time where they are making their own decisions. If this question was about a 16 year old, I think people’s opinions would be a lot different, but as far as the development we all go through, the two typically aren’t all that different. You’re in that weird psudo-adult phase where you can get around but not too much is generally expected of you.

Because it’s an 18 year old, and she’s “legal”, it seems to be a different matter but I think that’s where the “ick” factor comes from. We can imagine teenagers we know dating people with much more life experience. If their intentions are good, it could be beautiful, but if not one side is definitely better equipped to handle things.

I know a couple where she is 20 and he’s 40-something, they’re beautiful. They both want the same things, have the same interests, they enjoy each other and live their life together. They would probably in a relationship regardless of what the age difference was, they are just that kind of match.

I don’t think you can get that vibe from a dating site. What you do get is a picture and some stats, including age. So if you’re deciding who to date based on those, and her being 18 is a positive, yeah, I think that’s “ick”.

My dad married my mom when he was 44 and she was 20. Some of you wouldn’t have wanted them involved and they had a very happy marriage until he died.

Age is only a segment in time. It doesn’t mean anything just enjoy life.

Leave them. As long as they’re happy, you should be happy for them. You only live once, let them live in the way that they want.

Given the additional information (lives at home, no job, still in high school wtf) I’m firmly with you, @nikipedia. Still, he’ll do what he wants and so will she. :/

@augustlan And if things don’t work out, they’ll learn a valuable lesson. Win-win.

Of course you (and I) agree that it’d be a bad idea. We know how it’s going to turn out. Not saying your friend is a bad guy, but if it even gets remotely serious, she’ll be heartbroken.
But if it’s not him, it’ll just be some other guy. We all have to live and learn, have our experiences. I think, as a friend, I’d tell him I think he’s ridiculous for dating an 18 year old…but other than that, let them make their own mistakes.
Hopefully it’s not a huge mess at the end.

@casheroo Of course you (and I) agree that it’d be a bad idea. We know how it’s going to turn out.

I’d like to borrow your crystal ball when you’re done with it :)

@FutureMemory It doesn’t take a crystal ball, just a look at the statistics can give you the clue you need.source Of course, no one expects to become a statistic, but it happens willy/nilly

The Army certainly consider 18 old enough to be sacrificed for the good of the country. So, give me a break.

You are right. 18 year-olds should be reserved for guys in their mid 30’s!

My mother was 18 when she married her first husband. He was 39. They remained happily married for about 12 years before he passed away.

You don’t seem to know anything about this girl (qualities, traits, characteristics) other than the fact that she’s 18. That, to me, is what makes this question ridiculous. She is an individual. Not just an 18 year old.
There is no harm done in your friend going out on a first date with this girl to see what she’s like. If it doesn’t work out, then it doesn’t work out, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it has anything to do with her age.

This question has gone in the same direction that some of your other questions seem to go. People give you their answers and because you don’t agree with them you make it known that they don’t live up to your standards and that they contribute to the decrease in quality on the site. How exhausting, not to mention ironic. I need a nap.

I don’t know if anyone here has ever actually used an online dating site… so I’ve just signed up for one for kicks… and shits… and grins… and all that…

You know what information I had to give at Match.com?

I’m a (blank) Man… looking for a (blank) Woman… ages (blank) 18 to (blank) 33 near (blank) 78757 – zip code

So I’ve had to provide my sex… the sex I’m attracted to… and my target ages… along with my zip code so people close to me can be found.

That’s it.

What do I enjoy (it doesn’t matter)
What’s my maturity level (sorry, we don’t care)
Are you looking for a long term relationship with an equal (seriously… we give two shits, are you going to pay for a membership?)

Ohhh ok… you just want to know what age and sex I find attractive… regardless of whether they’d find me attractive… good enough.

I love me some young nubile girls.

And 18 is still “ick” for a grown man. Because it’s the youngest age I can select and not get thrown in jail.

Why?
1. young women are easily impressed and gullible.“Oh, you did? You’re so smart ! Wooow!”
2. young women make older guys “feel” young
3. men THINK a younger woman makes them look young too-but it doesn’t work.
4. many younger women have less baggage.

/rolls eyes then facedesk

@Aster Your first three points are fair… but are you saying in the fourth that men prefer to date women with more baggage?

annnnd I never thought I’d see the day I was agreeing with @Aster.

@bob_ ..no..
@nikipedia never thought that? thanks a bunch! LOL

I think there’s a biological component here, too. Younger women are more fertile. They look more fertile with their smooth skin and bright eyes and silky hair and large breasts and narrow waists. Whether or not it’s politically correct, men are much more likely to be influenced by what they see than by what they hear.

Women have done a lot of work to civilize men, and even gotten a lot of us to buy into the life long monogamous relationship as the gold standard. But that still doesn’t wash away the underlying instinctive nature of humans. For men, the information about fertility probably is perceived at a subconscious level. So they may not know why she is so attractive even though she barely knows anything. She looks so hot. That’s a powerful influence on an awful lot of men.

@wundayatta Well said. At 37 I still see women that are 18–22ish as being in their prime, physically. I ‘want’ them just as much now as I did when I was eighteen. I don’t see why that would ever change – when I’m 60 I’m sure I’ll still look at 20 year olds and think “hot damn!, now we’re talkin’!”, even though once I open my ears I know I’ll be turned off (as I am now).

@wundayatta You’re hilarious sometimes – you really think it’s somehow women’s agenda (rather than an economic control one) to ‘trap men into marriage’...like as if there’s a high school course for every woman that covers all the details of making men buy into marriage…do you really have such a low opinion of mens’ wills that they’re unable to resist this monogamy, which apparently only women want? Wow.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir Well, duh, that’s because we’re pigs! ~

@bob_ One of the most baffling things I have to do is to get men to stop considering ‘their species’ as neanderthal-like – truly baffling.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir That opinion seems to be shared by more than a few women, too.

@bob_ I know, I have my work cut out for me.

And don’t forget, men are just pigs; poisoned by testosterone. They’ll do anything they can to get a piece of ass. (Most men, that is.)

I can’t believe no attacked this bullshit statement like it so richly deserved. Congrats @psychocandy on living up to the stereotype of the man-hating lesbian.

@FutureMemory: Well, really… let’s change the circumstances a bit.

Say you have two children. One child grows up in a household with 2 parents, maybe a sibling, maybe a dog. Sunday dinners and weekend outings and family celebrations and hugs and kisses and constructive criticism and homework help and all that stuff. The other child lives in a slum, no father, junkie mother, roaches, crime.

If Child #2 thinks that’s how it is, would you fault him for it? No, because you’d understand that his experiences are all he’s ever known. To him, that’s normal.

Now, if @psychocandy‘s experiences with men were at least 90% negative, why would you fault her for that? Why is there a difference?

The difference is that it is very unlikely that most men are as bad as @FutureMemory is saying they are. Men who are not controlled by testosterone do exist, and there are plenty of them. To presume otherwise seems narrow-minded and bitter.

It kills me how, if a woman is raped (God forbid) and she becomes a man-hater, it’s okay. But if a woman just has really shitty experiences with men, she’s a man-hating lesbian.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir I think you are putting words in my mouth. I didn’t say those things.

However, to address this issue, I do believe there are underlying biological imperatives that play a strong role in male and female behavior. I think these imperatives are at play even though we think we are making “free” choices.

The evolutionary biological perspective is interesting, I think. As I understand it, women want to bind a man to them so they have resources to bring up the children. Men want to make sure the woman is monogamous with them because they don’t want to bring up some other man’s child.

Men want this because they know that some other men are always looking to sleep with some other man’s woman. Women, too, want the “best” man to be the father of their children, so they may find such a man while keeping the other guy around to provide resources to bring up that child.

This is all built into us, I gather. It is not something we are conscious of. But it helps explain why we behave the way we do. I think I overstated the case up there, because there is a reason for men to desire monogamy.

I think both men and women have a biological reason to behave duplicitously with respect to monogamy. It is estimated that up to 30% of men married to the woman who gave birth are not the father of that child. The article cited says that 10% non-paternity is probably the most likely percentage. The low estimate is 1%, but even that means that out of every hundred kids, one has a father who is someone different from who they think he is.

That’s already a lot of fooling around. If 30% of children are not the biological child of the man they think is their father, then it would seem that perhaps half the population doesn’t think that marriage is any great barrier to fornication. Not every clandestine liaison could result in a child.

But I believe that many men would like to have one woman who would play the role of the wife, while they were free to run around. In some societies this is legal—men can have more than one wife. In addition, some societies go to great lengths to keep the women separate from the men in order to minimize the opportunities for infidelity.

I believe that if men had their way, there would be a lot more societies with polygamy. I wonder about the other way around. If women had their way, would there be a lot more societies with polyandry?

@wundayatta: Throughout most of history, men did have their way, and it has been estimated that 80% of societies historically have allowed polygynous marriage. Monogamy is really a modern, Western ideal, yet I think most of us believe it has been the dominant model forever.

@FutureMemory Well, I did reply, just to show that it was a stupid generalization. What else can one say? It doesn’t exactly call for a high-minded debate.

@nikipedia Do you know why monogamy became the prevalent model?

@wundayatta Religious and economic forces – all institutions are about controlling people – the ‘nuclear ideal’ won here in the West.
@poofandmook We all have experiences, that doesn’t mean we have an excuse to say whatever we want about groups of people. I am not sure how exactly @psychocandy identifies (perhaps bisexual or queer..not that it should matter @FutureMemory ) but she certainly isn’t straight (so he was rather pointing to that than some random epithet).A woman that has been raped by a man has no right to state ‘all men are poisoned by testosterone and are pigs’ either, in my opinion.

@poofandmook The fatal flaw in your argument is that a child has very little life experience, so such a shortsighted sweeping generalization would be expected. Adults on the other hand should know better.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir I pointed out her non-heterosexuality only to illustrate that not only is she making a stupid gneralization, but she’s also giving more ammunition to the homophobes that believe “lesbians are man haters”. It was a stupid comment, but:

You KNOW I would not use the term lesbian in a way that implies it’s a negative characterization.

@FutureMemory Never implied you did – I was just saying that her comment was inappropriate enough no matter her sexuality.

@FutureMemory: I thought I stated my argument clear enough to indicate that the adult believes that to be normal after dealing with that situation for his entire childhood. Still the adult, having opinions, based on a childhood of bad experiences. If I was unclear, I apologize, but this is what I meant.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir: I wasn’t necessarily agreeing with @psychocandy, or saying that her statement was appropriate. I was just trying to make a point that if a woman who’d, for example, been raped were to say the same thing @psychocandy did, I highly doubt that most people would jump down her throat the way they did to @psychocandy. And also, let’s be honest here… your educated and completely open views of sexuality and gender and all that sort of subject matter is definitely not the typical view… so while you might not condone that statement from a rape victim, a lot of people probably would. And if that sounded negative, it definitely wasn’t. I admire your openness in regard to sexuality, in fact. Just sayin’.

Another question seems to illustrate a strong difference of opinions with a slight change in ages

Is it legal for a 23 year old to have a baby with a 15 year old?

The question is about legality, but the opinions are strongly negative of the relationship.

There are other differences, but legal status seems to decide whether dating someone younger is worthy of a high-five, or public shunning.