What's the deal with American Heritage Girls going after The Girl Scouts?

If the Girl Scouts were “pro-lesbian, pro-abortion, pro-birth control”, I’d like them a lot better.

I haven’t heard of this, but off hand it sounds like some crazies on the right trying to steer youth away from an organization so they can indoctrinate them in their own organization.

The girl scouts have no stances on any of those highly political/controversial topics… and why on Earth should they?

In short, it evangelism at the elementary level…Plain & simple. If they get the girls from the Catholic churches to come to their group, they can evangelize to them while the girls are having fun in the group setting.

I think if I were your friend, I’d be talking to the priest and would ask for the Archbishop to be alerted.

@SpatzieLover I would think the troop leaders wind up being moms, and so of course Catholic. The school is a Catholic school. It seems to me at this point it might just be about money, growing the organization and bringing in the money. It does look like it started out as an evangelical organization, that was my thoughts as well, but not sure how it really functions within local communities. No matter what their tactics are not nice from what I can tell.

@JLeslie I completely understand that moms involved in the troops from your scenario are Catholic. Maybe, the ones now involved with AHG were unhappy with the Girl Scout organization for some reason??? No matter if they were or not, AHG has no reason to enroll Catholic girls for any other reason than to change/alter their religious beliefs.

To me, this still is just not “kosher”. ;) If I were the mom (friend of yours) I would take my concerns to a higher authority in the Church.

As a Catholic, I personally take issue with the way in which they’ve set themselves up. Yes, Non-Catholic Christians take issue with Catholics views on Saints and Mary. It seems clear enough from their website what their position is.

@SpatzieLover Yes, well as I said my friend did say the archdioces and the school has commented that they still support the Girl Scouts as a good organization, and they went as far to say that obviously if the Girl Scouts was pro-abortion the Catholic church would not give their approval for Catholic girls to partcipate in it. Seems there was some incident where after a meeting for the Girl Scouts in Europe at a hotel someone found abortion material in the room, or some ridiculousness. If it is even true there was a pamphlet, they cannot even confirm it was not from a different group who had used the meeting room. I don’t believe for a second the Girl Scouts is even talking about abortion in any way pro or con to 10 year olds.

I am not Catholic, but it bothers me Christians do not accept Catholics as Christians, and that evangelicals even feel Catholics, who accept Christ as their saviour, still need to be saved.

Most Catholics I know are weary of other Christians, not sure why some of these moms went for the bait hook line and sinker.

<<<not sure why some of these moms went for the bait hook line and sinker.>>>

@JLeslie Most likely because they are insecure or misinformed. But why there are followers of the insecure & misinformed is the question.

I get that the archdiocese is stating they still support the Girl Scouts. My question is, do they say the same about AHG? Because just looking at their website makes me leery. I have heard of the organization in my area, but as far as I know, they don’t have Catholic girls enrolled. (Here they are associated with a large non-denominational Church known for it’s enormity/stages/sound system).

@SpatzieLover I see what you are saying now. Well, the school is allowing American Heritage to sponsor the upcoming father daughter dance, so I am guessing they are ok with the organization? But, maybe that does not demonstrate actual support an approval by the archdioces? I don’t know how it all works.

@JLeslie No, that does not indicate actual support. My problem would be the “why” behind the priest allowing this. I’d be asking a lot of questions of him. It’s not okay to have division amongst the girls, nor of the parents. The church parishioners should be alerted and should be asked for their opinion on this. Also, dances should be supported by parishioners and local business (this is another red flag for me).

At the church we attend, the girls actually get more involved in actual church duties than they do the Girl Scouts. We have an after school “hang-out” attached to our church. The girls help to plan aide to our sister school in South America-etc. Boys are still into Cub Scouts (mostly due to the camping/outing aspect). I can tell you if a group like AHG was trying to get their foot in, the mom’s and dad’s would be quick to get them out.

@SpatzieLover I am pretty sure my girlfriend is not going to stir the pot more. Her kids are in Girl Scouts still, Catholicism is an important part of their lives, and she does not like when religion is in politics, or when people try to force their religion or beliefs on others. I had always thought the majority of Catholics were like this, but only recently came to find out there is a significant amount of Catholics who kind of function like the Evangelicals, and since they are listening to the Christian right rhetoric, I guess they are easily swayed feeling they are like minded with their goals and causes.

@JLeslie I’m not a pot stirrer either. This group doesn’t sit well with me and I wouldn’t want it influencing my kids either directly (my child in the group) or indirectly (my child going to a Catholic school where friends are in the group).

Recently, some of those groups have been “infiltrating” Catholic churches and schools (as seen here in your story). This is precisely why the Pope made it clear that Catholics are not “Young Earthers”. (Another reason this group doesn’t sit well with me).

What is a young earther?

Someone that believes literally in “Adam & Eve”. They believe the earth is less than 10,000 years old.

This seems like a strange post. What is it trying to say? I am trying to follow it…but it is a friend, told a friend, told a friend… and I can’t decipher the agenda or point very well. I don’t want to misunderstand why this post exists. Especially since it seems to be talking about a school in Aurora in which all of these facts would be false except for the Dance?

@777 Welcome to Fluther this is how we talk here sometimes. No, this isn’t about Aurora

@all @777 has already left us ;)

@777 Where did you get Aurora? If you are asking if I have an agenda I don’t. I was just wondering what people know about AHG.

@SpatzieLover strange.

@JLeslie Somedays they come an go rather quickly. Apparently @777 had gotten a jelly helper for a bad answer cuz he/she was already booted by the time I checked the profile page

woww, America really makes me laugh sometimes!

…though I suppose this is kind of disturbing if you live there =[

@The_Idler Which part exactly is funny? Just curious, not being defensive.

That youth groups are so politicised, that they are actively discrediting one-another, and all over issues that the kids this involves really have no understanding of…

It’s just faintly absurd. All these issues are basically non-issues here. It just feels very antiquated.

The kind of Christian Moralism you see in America nowadays just makes a Brit think of Victorian times.

All the technological and social progress we’ve had since then has been associated (in our minds) with the abandonment of that attitude, so it just seems backward to see a modern country, which still has these attitudes.

Even the overtly Christian youth groups here mostly just involve kids going and playing and learning little skills and getting badges and singing hymns. To mention being “pro/anti” anything in the context of them is seen as quite strange, and the idea that one group would try to discredit another about these issues is yet more alien, because most people don’t really care about them any more than discussing them over a pint in the pub.

The conversation usually going something like, “Now, I don’t really like abortion, but did you hear about those hyper-religious wackos in America, who kill doctors and blow up clinics!? What a place, eh?”

Nobody really cares what the group leader of the local youth group thinks about lesbians or abortion or birth-control, because they’re a youth group leader, and they talk to kids about sewing or fires or flower-arranging or knives, not social policy =/

@The_Idler I agree with the Brits.

@The_Idler & @JLeslie Me, too.

That’s why I like to think, as I mentioned above, that in the end the troop leaders and immediate community basically just have fun stuff for the girls and there isn’t any discussion of such topics in the first place.

The Christian Right is never too busy to find someone else to wrong with Christian love.

@SavoirFaire I’m a socialist

@SpatzieLover Okay? I was talking about whoever is behind the anti-Girl Scouts propaganda.

I don’t have an answer for you, but this is just insane. Very few Girl Scouts stay in the program long enough to reach ages where it would even be appropriate to talk about birth control or abortion—regardless of what the organization’s stance is. And as far as that goes, I find it hard to believe that GSUSA holds those stances at all. I was in the organization for ten years, and while it didn’t hammer in religion the way the American Heritage Girls website does, it’s definitely a Christian-oriented organization. There were at least a couple requirements (I think for the silver award, or one of the leadership pins) that involved writing short essays on your faith. A good friend of mine who was in my troop often felt ostracized by this sort of thing because she was an atheist.

Yes, “JLeslie”, you are “off base” and I would suggest you do to do some research before trying to “trash” an organization. Even though the GSUSA has been around a long time – they have changed over the years. The GSUSA has an “agenda” and they are promoting sex education within their organization.

Before I go any further, I would like it made clear that I am not talking about the GS leaders or the girl members. The major problem is with the national office and some councils. But, by supporting GSUSA in any way, even purchasing cookies, you are supporting the the “GSUSA movement”.

There are many articles on line. It’s not the American Heritage Girls “going after” the Girl Scouts. The GSUSA have put themselves in this position all by themselves. The GSUSA admits partnering with Planned Parenthood:
http://www.prolifewaco.org/Television.htm
NBC Today Show Transcript

http://www.lifenews.com/2004/03/09/nat-369/

http://www.lifeissues.org/connector/2010/Oct10_The_Girl_Scouts.htm

I believe this is the incident you might be referencing in your prior comment. “Seems there was some incident where after a meeting for the Girl Scouts in Europe at a hotel someone found abortion material in the room, or some ridiculousness.”
It wasn’t in Europe, or a hotel room.
Girls Scouts Distributed Planned Parenthood Sex Guide at UN Meeting.
http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=35758
And the GSUSA continue to say this isn’t true. Hmm…..

American Heritage Girls has a Memorandum of Mutual Support with the Boy Scouts. The GSUSA doesn’t. The BSA and AHG has held true to their values. They keep God in their oath. GSUSA allows God to be an “option” by placing an asterisk by His name.
The Girl Scout Promise
On my honor, I will try:
To serve God* and my country,
To help people at all times,
And to live by the Girl Scout Law.
http://janechastain.com/2008/11/20/girl-scouts-farther-down-the-road-to-new-age/

AHG has many endorsements:
http://www.scoutingnews.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/mou_bsa_ahg_bw.pdf

http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/family-talk/listen/american-heritage-girls-i-108784.html

The reason you see AHG mentioned in many articles when you google GSUSA and their “movement” is because AHG offers scouting for girls without the GSUSA “agenda”. AHG will keep God in their oath and not tolerate the liberalism that GSUSA has implemented into their program.

As for the Diocese’s still supporting the GSUSA, we pray that the bishops will soon realize that they are misguiding their flock and start announcing to their parishes that they need to sever all ties with the GSUSA. Many parish priests are not allowing girl scouts in their parish, the bishops will soon do the same. There is no Catholic that should be a part of the GSUSA.

Additional links:
Here is an organization dedicated to exposing companies and non-profits that support PP. A must read and membership for any Catholic
http://www.fightpp.org/

Abby Johnson- Pro-Life advocate – check out her post: “FACT: Girl Scouts of America supports Planned Parenthood. Support Girl Scouts = Support Abortion.” Read the comments 119+.
http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=203574892985925&id=114382035238545

You also might want to check out the GSUSA new books:
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Perspectives/Default.aspx?id=160368

@japg Lots of information there, but the upshot seems to be “the Girl Scouts are accepting and progressive, whereas the American Heritage Girls are bigoted and reactionary.” Good to know. I’ll have to buy more cookies next year.

@japg Are you Catholic?

@SavoirFaire you seem to reply haphazardly (Just making an observation from previous threads). But, I am not trying to have you agree with me on the GSUSA issue. You are obviously pro-choice and support the gay/lesbian lifestyle. Feel free to continue to purchase cookies.
But on what grounds do you base the statement “American Heritage Girls are bigoted and reactionary”?

@JLeslie Yes, I am Catholic.
Please show your friend this thread as it will help her understand why her parish/school has switched their scouting program for girls to a better program, American Heritage Girls. I know our Diocese still has the GSUSA on the list of approved organizations, but you need to understand that the GSUSA was listed many years ago. It’s only a matter of time for the bishops to be educated about the GSUSA “movement”. There are many parish priest’s who have allowed the switch from GSUSA to AHG.

@japg The thing is my friend is probably not against Planned Parenthood. She, for herself, uses rhythym as birth control and she is pro-life. However, she thinks young girls should learn about their bodies. She thinks it is ridiculous she graduated high school with no clue about her reproductive organs. Unless you go to a Catholic Hospital you may not realize the hospital you arein does abortions. Many hospitals do abortions, not just Planned Parenthood and clinics. Is the church going to try and close down hospitals top? Planned Parenthood gives an incredible service to young women, especially those who don’t have much money, or those afraid to go to their regular doctor. As Catholic and religious my friend is, I don’t think she would support closing Planned Parenthood down. Meanwhile, I don’t think for a second Girlscouts is pushing or talking about sex with 10 year olds. It seems to me like girlscouts is just trying to empower young women. But, I appreciate all the efforts you made to provide links, and I will pass them along to my friend, in the end she can decide. She tends to not like the Christian Right’s way of doing things, and her girls have been happy in Girl Scouts, so I doubt she would pull them out.

@japg I respond when I think it is worthwhile, not to get the last word. If that’s what you mean by replying haphazardly, then I suppose you are correct. And yes, I am pro-choice. I have no idea what “the gay/lesbian lifestyle” is, however, as my experience suggests that there are many different lifestyles that those who are born homosexual might choose for themselves (just as there are many different lifestyles that those who are born heterosexual or bisexual might choose for themselves).

As for why I say that the American Heritage Girls are bigoted and reactionary—and please don’t misquote me; it is the organization I am accusing and not the individual girls—that’s quite simple. A bigot is one who is intolerant of alternative views, and the AHG was formed in order to avoid the tolerance of others shown by the Girl Scouts. A reactionary is a person who opposes political and social liberalization, such as wider access to the reproductive health care Planned Parenthood provides (it’s not all abortion services, despite what the AHG would like you to believe). Simple, really.

I recently heard a stat that only 10% of Planned Parenthoods business is abortions, and abortions are completely separate from their other services. Separate financial statement, separate staff, not sure what else.

@japg I’m curious if it bothers you at all that it says right on the site to not worship false idols, and that is what the non-Catholic Christians accuse Catholics of?

@JLeslie – Your friend sounds like a good Catholic and she is right, girls should learn about their bodies. Your friend should be more than qualified to teach her daughter(s) if she is familiar with the rhythm method. The rhythm method, also known as Natural Family Planning (NFP) is taught by the Catholic church.

“Meanwhile, I don’t think for a second Girlscouts is pushing or talking about sex with 10 year olds.”
Oh…...but, they are:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-03-03-cookie-boycott_x.htm
It’s probably not happening in your friends troop/council, but it does happen. Reproductive rights should be taught to a child by his/her parent. This is the safest way to ensure that the parents religious beliefs are taught and reinforced.

I am aware that Planned Parenthood is not the only facility that preforms abortions, distributes birth control, etc. The Catholic church doesn’t have the power to close all hospitals that preform abortions and I am sure that closing the hospital is not their intention. Actually, the opposite is happening. The Obama administration wants to shut down any hospital that refuses to preform an abortion, which basically translates to “Catholic hospitals”.

The Catholic Church does not “go after” a particular organization or person. There are many Catholics along with many other pro-life individuals and groups who are trying to end abortion. It’s not just Planned Parenthood – it’s all abortion facilities and any hospital that preforms an abortion. It’s the killing of babies we don’t tolerate and we pray to an end to the murder of these innocent lives.

But, the link most people miss is that the GSUSA IS a supporter of Planned Parenthood and the lesbian lifestyle. These ideals are infiltrated in the GSUSA curriculum as early as kindergarten. It’s subtle at the early ages – but it is there. The GSUSA definitely has an agenda. Please, go back through the links I provided.

“I recently heard a stat that only 10% of Planned Parenthoods business is abortions, and abortions are completely separate from their other services. Separate financial statement, separate staff, not sure what else.”
That’s exactly what PP would like you think think, don’t kid yourself….......read the book UNPlanned.

“I’m curious if it bothers you at all that it says right on the site to not worship false idols, and that is what the non-Catholic Christians accuse Catholics of?”
Is this what you are referencing?
AHG website – “Girls want to make meaning out of their lives and statistics show that girls have a high desire to believe in a higher being. What will that belief system be? Will it be of false idols or the one true God? According to Barna Research, if youth do not make a commitment to Christ by age 12, the probability of them finding Him during their life is extremely low.”
No, I don’t have a problem with the statement.
What you might be confusing is that some people accuse Catholics of worshiping Mary. We don’t worship Mary, we honor her. She is the Mother of God. Another question non-Catholics ask “Why do we have statues of Mary, Joseph, etc. in our churches?” Well, it’s because we honor and remember them. Just as you and I have pictures of our parents, spouse, children etc. in our house.

@japg Well, the Protestants were not fond of the idea of Catholic Kennedy, and I think still today they would not be happy with a Catholic President. Not all Protestants of course, but that far right very vocal group don’t like you all very much from what I can tell. You might be interested in this thread.

I don’t know where you get the idea Obama is trying to close Catholic Hospitals? Where did you hear that? Sounds the same as people who are against gay marriage thinking clergy will have to perform gay marriages which is totally ridiculous illogical bullshit. Clergy today refuse to marry people all of the time. Priests and Catholics won’t do interreligious marriages, all sorts of reasons they discriminate, perfectly legal and acceptable. I have heard for years people fighting to make it the law woman are advised of what is available to them when raped, like a morning after pill, and work to force pharmacists to follow a doctors script for birth control.

In that article you linked I don’t see where it says they are talking about anything regarding sex directly to the 10 year olds, nor giving out pamphlets directly to ten year olds. It looks like they are blending together an award given to a planned parenthood executive, the reading materials found at the UN, and a pledge the girls in the Girl Scouts take. Not to mentione that the church’s stand on masterbation is totally horrible and offensive to me, but I am trying to not let my personal opinion interfere with my conversation here.

Not to mention the irony of how many gay priests there are when it comes to the assertion that Girl Scouts supports gays and lesbians and how awful that is to the people trying to boycott GS. I know the vatican’s stance is as long as you don’t act on it, it is fine to be gay, but if we tried to boycott Catholism for Gay Priests seen out in Ft. Lauderdale with “friends” And, Italy too, you all would have a problem. This is why my gay, raised Catholic, relative by marriage basically left the church, the hypocrisy was disgusting to him. One of his boyfriends felt the opposite, he went to church every Sunday, because the Priest at his church was a friend they would see out, and he felt very accepted. Funny how the same type of situation can affect two people differently.

I am not tring to go after the Catholic church, I have very positive feelings about Catholics, my husband was raised Catholic, over 90% of my closest friends are Catholic.

@JLeslie Wow, how quickly this thread has moved off topic. What was once a somewhat pleasant exchange of words has turned sour.

Yes, I am very aware that “some” Protestants were not fond of “Catholic Kennedy” – It’s a free country. I am also aware of priests that are gay, and yes, the media goes wild with any anti-Catholic news. But, realize that the ones in the media are like a few grains of sand on a beach. Please know that there are good Catholic priests in the world that are not gay. Many good holy men.

We could sit here all week and throw links back at each other. You’re going to believe what you want. You asked the question: “What’s the deal with American Heritage Girls going after The Girl Scouts?” – I was merely trying to to answer your question and educate you about the reason why Catholics should not be part of the GSUSA and that AHG is not “going after” the GSUSA. Believe what you want.

Answers to your questions:
“I don’t know where you get the idea Obama is trying to close Catholic Hospitals? Where did you hear that?”
– I am referencing FOCA

Here is a quote from the link I sent prior:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-03-03-cookie-boycott_x.htm

“The Waco-area Girl Scout organization has been putting its name and logo on brochures for the Planned Parenthood sex-education programs but said it does not contribute any money and does not send girls to attend.
Some 400 to 700 fifth- through ninth-graders attend the half-day Nobody’s Fool conference in Waco each July. The program never mentions abortion, according to Planned Parenthood. The youngsters receive a book with chapters on homosexuality and masturbation, as well as illustrations of couples having sex, people examining their naked bodies and a boy putting on a condom.”

“400–700 fifth- through ninth-graders…...” Fifth graders are 10–11 years old.

@JLeslie – Where is your friends parish/school located anyways? You don’t need to be city specific. Just curious in what state she lives.

@japg I am not sayng all preists are gay or bad, as I said I like the Catholics, the people and the Vatican. I am not just talking about the media, I am talking about people I know or am related too, I know a lot of gay people. If you want to ignore the media, which can I agree latch on to one thing and blow it all out of proportion I suggest the same might be being done against Girl Scouts, seems many of the artcles you link are from Baptist world TX and other bible belt areas. Just like my friends and relatives have had dissappointing observations of their gay priests, there might be specific instances of a girl scout leader doing something we don’t like. But, my girlfriend, who lives in MI to answer your question, has no negative experiences with her GS troop, and just as a side note her Priest is Gay, not that it matters.

My intent is not at all to criticize the Catholic church, I am basically agreeing with you that coming up with links possibly means less than the actual experience people have with Girl Scouts in their communities.

Personally, I don’t think any of this means anything regarding a group for young kids to play together, go camping, etc. Sex ed should be a non-issue in my opinion regarding this. As I said above I agree with @The_Idler. The whole conversation makes no sense to me, that it comes up at all. (I do not mean that against you, I mean in general, obviously I started this conversation). I wish these organization were not based in religion at all. Fine if someone wants their kid to be part of their church’s youth group, but groups for children to learn and feel inspired and supported seem to me would be better secular. Just me.

I didn’t think that you thought all priests are gay or bad. I’m glad that you like Catholics. You sound like a person who likes anyone- I do as well. I have no qualms against any race, color, religion, etc. I would even like my enemies if I had some.

You could say that the GSUSA is blown up in the media. But, I hold in my hand some of the GSUSA Journey books and I can tell you they are not what I would endorse as acceptable. I have also read through many other materials from the GSUSA and have made the decision not to be a part of this organization. When I discovered GSUSA’s pro-abortion lesbian movement, I did some investigative work on my own rather than just trusting the media. My daughter’s leader was a good Catholic and she never discussed these issue’s within a troop meeting. BUT, from my findings of what I personally read in the GSUSA material, in good faith, I could not allow my daughter (or myself) to be a member of the GSUSA as it directly conflicts with the beliefs of our Catholic faith.

“seems many of the artcles you link are from Baptist world TX and other bible belt areas” – Not sure this is true- but what would it matter?
“But, my girlfriend, ... and just as a side note her Priest is Gay, not that it matters.” – being gay is not a sin, acting on it, is a sin.
“Personally, I don’t think any of this means anything regarding a group for young kids to play together, go camping, etc. Sex ed should be a non-issue in my opinion regarding this.” – When you say “non-issue”, do you mean that sex ed should not be part of a “youth type” program”?

@japg Yes, I think sex ed should not be part of a youth type program. I would keep to parents and schools.

It matters that all the articles are out of the bible belt because the bible belt is more likely to be biased. It’s the same criticism as the media tending to be liberal, basically most of the media is HQ’d in the Northeast, where it tends to be more liberal. It’s just a comment on possible bias.

I would not say I like everyone. True, it is hard for me to find an individual I don’t like, and I treat everyone as an individual, get to know them, and not make assumptions based on generalizations or presumptions I have in my head about a group, but I do have some generalizations I make. Generally I think of the Catholics as caring about science, and the Evangelicals not caring, not caring to even consider science. I find the Evangelicals generally more willing to be hateful and judgmental and want to control politics and other people’s lives (I’m talking about the outspoken ones, not necessarily the average Christian). Every Catholic I personally know, my peers, are all fine with legal gay civil marriage, do not want prayer in public school, appreciate a separation of church and state, etc. Catholics are against IVF, which I can respect, because if you know the science of IVF it makes sense that someone strictly pro-life, who is religious and believes the soul enters at conception, would be uncomfortable with IVF, but the Evangelicals are fine with IVF. I never hear a Catholic walking around trying to convert people, I find them always respectful, and having an understanding that there are many religions and cultures in this world, and they seek peace and goodness at this point in history in my opinion. The Evangelicals seem to be willing to disrespect others, break boundaries, to change the world, or at minimum my country, the US, into a Christian country. We are not a Christian country, we are a country where the majority of the population is Christian.

Anyway, I respect your opinion, thanks for the info. Of course you should do for your family what you think is right. My intention is not to change your mind, it was only to get some feedback on what I had heard. Thanks :).

@japg Oh, and welcome to fluther, I hope you like it here.

@japg You seem to be engaging in some very selective reading. First, you have missed the point about worshiping false idols. You know, @JLeslie knows, and I know that Catholics do not worship Mary. But Protestants have spread that rumor—or, more accurately, that accusation—for a long time. They also accuse Catholics of waiting too long to confirm members. When Christian groups talk about false idols and accepting Christ by age 12, then, it is not unreasonable to worry about anti-Catholic sentiments being behind it.

Second, you are misreading your own link. The USA Today article never says that anyone from the Girl Scout leadership is talking about sex or anything of the sort with troop members. It only says that the local Girl Scout organization has endorsed a sex education program devised by Planned Parenthood, not that the organization has used it. The part you misleadingly quote is about an event held by Planned Parenthood and attended by local students—students who may or may not be Girl Scouts for all the article says. It is not the local Girl Scout organization sending people to this conference. At least, the article does not corroborate any such assertion.

@JLeslie – “Yes, I think sex ed should not be part of a youth type program. I would keep to parents and schools.” -This is exactly what the GSUSA is doing (sex ed in the GSUSA program). You don’t need to take my word for it. It is in the Journey’s books, and a great portion (about ½) of the older girl book A Resource Book for Senior Girl Scouts (14years+). I would encourage your friend to get a copy of these books.

I appreciated chatting with you, JLeslie. You seem like a fair person who is open to looking at the whole situation rather than turning a blind eye.

@SavoirFaire – You’re starting to annoy me. I don’t care for your tone.
“You seem to be engaging in some very selective reading.” -Of course, I select what I read, it’s my choice.

“First, you have missed the point about worshiping false idols. You know, @JLeslie knows, and I know that Catholics do not worship Mary. But Protestants have spread that rumor—or, more accurately, that accusation—for a long time.” -If you read the entire thread, or the specific post, you will see that I was questioning what JLeslie was asking.
I said “Is this what you are referencing?” – You see, it has a question mark- it’s a question. I wasn’t sure. Simple as that. I wasn’t sure if JLeslie was asking about the AHG Statement of Faith or why Catholics are accused of worshipping Mary. I answered the typical question that I am asked by some people who are not Catholic- and I feel I explained that in the post. If I had missed the point, then JLeslie, is free to correct me.

“They also accuse Catholics of waiting too long to confirm members. When Christian groups talk about false idols and accepting Christ by age 12, then, it is not unreasonable to worry about anti-Catholic sentiments being behind it.” -I have friends of all faiths but, I haven’t had anyone ask me about a long wait to join the Catholic church. My conversations with people not of the Catholic faith are very respectful and I have not sensed any “anti-Catholic sentiments behind it.” I don’t think you’re looking for an answer either.
Honestly, I don’t know where you get this stuff.

“Second, you are misreading your own link. The USA Today article never says that anyone from the Girl Scout leadership is talking about sex or anything of the sort with troop members.”
-Actually, I’m not misreading my own link:
My words – “promoting sex education”
JLeslie’s words – “Meanwhile, I don’t think for a second Girlscouts is pushing or talking about sex with 10 year olds.”
My words – “It’s probably not happening in your friends troop/council, but it does happen.” – How do you know that I am not referencing the “pushing” of sex ed?

SavoirFaire if you just read the whole thread, you will realize that I didn’t “misread” my own link. Simple as that.

“It only says that the local Girl Scout organization has endorsed a sex education program devised by Planned Parenthood, not that the organization has used it. The part you misleadingly quote is about an event held by Planned Parenthood and attended by local students—students who may or may not be Girl Scouts for all the article says. It is not the local Girl Scout organization sending people to this conference. At least, the article does not corroborate any such assertion.” -Again, read the thread entirely – also, the link. Did you miss this?:
quote from http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-03-03-cookie-boycott_x.htm
“The Waco-area Girl Scout organization has been putting its name and logo on brochures for the Planned Parenthood sex-education programs but said it does not contribute any money and does not send girls to attend.” – And, yes, I was aware it was a local Girl Scout Council. I’ve stated this within my posts.
Anyways, SavoirFaire, try to read the full text and think about what you are going to type. This is exactly what I was referencing when I made the statement “you seem to reply haphazardly”.

Just to clear some things up, indeed I do not think Catholics worship false idols. I like Mary and the saints, but funny enough just a few hours ago on the last leg pf my flight to NY the Protestan sitting next to me said he always tells his Catholic wife that she should be talking only directly to God, no intermediaries, and I said I like the saints, its like a corporation, why bother the CEO, when the VP of Finance can easily address the proble, or St. Jude, or whoever. He didn’t like the answer. I have a Catholic girlfriend who married a Baptist, and his parents or relatives every so often have something negative, some under their breath typw comment regarding the Catholics. Protestants don’t like several things about the Catholic religion, no getting around it.

I do think some of the articles @japg provided are being misinterpreted or slanted as I mentioned above. But, there might be some truth to what she says also. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

@JLeslie – Thanks! And, I am impressed with how well you explained praying to the saints!

Have a great visit in NY and Happy Anniversary!

@japg Sorry, but I don’t care if I am annoying you. As for my tone, I’m not sure what you mean. All I am being is critical. If you can’t take criticism, feel free to leave.

As for my point about selective reading, you have again missed the point (and engaged in a semantic fallacy while responding—nice job). The term “selective reading” does not refer to picking and choosing what to read; it refers to a form of cognitive bias that leads one to see what one wants to see in the things one reads. So when I say you are selectively reading your sources, my point is that you aren’t reading them objectively and seeing what they actually say. You are cherry picking misleading phrases and quoting them out of context. That makes for a bad argument, which is why I mentioned it.

As for the bit about worshiping false idols, this is a public thread. I am free to correct you just as much as @JLeslie is. Yes, you asked a question. I answered it. Because, as I already noted, you seem to have been missing her point. That’s why you asked, right?

Regarding anti-Catholic sentiments, I am glad you’ve had the fortune to be surrounded by tolerant people. I did not have that growing up and heard many complaints about Catholicism. The sentiments I mentioned are just some of those. So that’s “where I get this stuff” from—growing up.

As for how I know that you are not referencing the “pushing” of sex ed in your comment, I suppose I don’t. But I choose to assume you are not so stupid as to be unable to answer a question. Since your answer was general, any reasonable person could read it as applying to the whole question. Perhaps I overestimated you, though.

And by the way, I have read the entire thread. I’ve also read every one of your links all the way through at least twice and have thought about my responses. The fact that I disagree with you doesn’t mean I reply haphazardly, though your inability to see me as doing anything else suggests that you are incapable of understanding the fact that people can disagree with you without being stupid or foolish. For shame, @japg. For shame. This site is for better things than your mindless scorn.

@SavoirFaire -I respectfully disagree.