General Question

babybadger's avatar

Should students have homework during school vacations?

Asked by babybadger (1790points) February 28th, 2011

My school had off last week, and I spent the entire time in Florida – left at 3 am saturday morning, and back the next sunday night . I had a math project, an essay, etc as assignments from my teachers. I tried to get it done as quickly as possible, but the workload still severely affected the trip. I realize that teachers have a limited amount of time to get things taught, but my parents argue that a vacation is called a vacation because you are supposed to relax. Opinions?

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72 Answers

MyNewtBoobs's avatar

Yes and no. I’m all for projects that are assigned well before the vacation, and due right after – that way you don’t have to do them on your trip. Otherwise, no, I think a vacation is supposed to help you relax and recharge so you can be at your best when you come back.

bolwerk's avatar

I agree with your parents. That’s very selfish and obnoxious of your teachers. Teachers shouldn’t spoil a vacation with overwhelming busywork, particularly “projects” (actually, they shouldn’t do that anyway – it probably doesn’t help anyone learn, and just wastes time). However, I can understand being expected to do some minimal exercises to keep you in practice while you’re away from school. Math especially is very much a use-it-or-lose it discipline. I know, having gone back to grad school after hardly using it for 10 years!

J0E's avatar

It’s called vacation for a reason.

softtop67's avatar

I really cannot defend your position or your parents. Since when is a “vacation” a right? There is also a huge difference between a vacation and time when school is close, but that does not mean your responsibilities or the time you must commit to learning ceases. When you get in the workforce find out what happens to you when you tell your boss that you are not responsible for what goes on when you are on “vacation”, I assure you they wont care about ruining your relaxation in fact they put you on terminal relaxation

ragingloli's avatar

They should not have vacations. They should be at school 24 hours a day, 366 days a year, until they are 25.

Prosb's avatar

I agree with @MyNewtBoobs, vacations are recharge time. Some VERY light work, the rest in to relax. Over summer break, I understand book reports, but otherwise, no way.

babybadger's avatar

@softtop67- I am part of the workforce, and I do understand that. But good point, I suppose it depends what the term “vacation” entails, which may be different for the workforce and students, I think.

MilkyWay's avatar

your parents are absolutely right, THERE SHOULD BE NO HOMEWORK DURING THE HOLIDAYS! especially if they’re shorter that 2 weeks. Too much stress! You gotta have some time to get away from it, right?

MyNewtBoobs's avatar

@Prosb I don’t – how can teachers assign something when they won’t be your teacher next year!?! Never got that…

mcbolden's avatar

um… NO! what the heck is the point of a vacation if you are knee-deep in a pile of homework? No point at all I tell you! Vacations are a means to relax and escape from school for a brief moment. If we all had homework during break.. people would simply go insane. Any teacher that assigns homework over the break is sadistic and most likely takes some sort of sick joy in the thought of students slaving away when everyone else is enjoying themselves.

iamthemob's avatar

I’m with @MyNewtBoobs as well, but would add that assignments given right before a vacation and due some point soon after returning are also fine, as long as the assignment could reasonably be done in the time period alloted between the return from vacation and the due date. Being offered some time during vacation to do prepwork for the assignment allows for a more relaxed approach to the school period after break as well.

incendiary_dan's avatar

It’s questionable whether or not homework helps anything, anyway, so no. Homework is a way to insert schooling into the home life, and most of it is busy work anyway. I don’t give my students homework.

blueiiznh's avatar

I would so no to the required homework as it is vacation.
I am ok with extra credit work that is discretionary.

iamthemob's avatar

I think we should also address whether teachers who do this aren’t doing a service to their students. I mean, how often in the real world does going on vacation mean that you are defended against getting work during that vacation.

wundayatta's avatar

I don’t want to have to keep after my son to do his homework on vacation. But he will have it. His school gives ridiculous amounts of homework. Of course, the kids do pretty well, too.

KatawaGrey's avatar

I am in college right now and I have had professors who have been split pretty well down the middle on this. Some of my professors will assign something due right before vacation or give us a month to do something that happens to include some vacation time which is not such a bad idea. However, some of my professors have this idea that the school supplies vacation time purely for doing more homework.

I do not think that teachers should assign a lot of work over a vacation. It is supposed to be a vacation and if one kid has to have access to the library or a computer, that can ruin a whole family’s vacation. As for those of you who say that a real job may require you to do work on your vacation time, that’s different. That is for grown-ups, not a child who is in school. Just because you have to do work on your vacation time doesn’t mean that a kid should have to suffer too.

Seaofclouds's avatar

I don’t have a problem with it once you are in the high school level, especially if you are planning to go to college. In many of my college classes, we had assignments that were due after spring break (the semesters always ended before winter break). The way my college instructors looked at it was that you had time to figure out if you wanted to work on it before your break of after, but either way, you had to get it done.

I never saw winter break or spring break as a “vacation” so to speak. Sure it was a break from school, but we never actually went on vacation during that time, instead we waited until the summer, so it was just a week of being home for me during school.

zenvelo's avatar

Breaks during the year are when people (including teachers!) travel,so I am opposed to assignments due back after break. It impacts the whole family, not just the student.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

No, I don’t think people should have homework on vacations.

sarahjane90's avatar

No. I had three essays worth half of my grade in three classes due, all given right before Xmas break and due the first day back (all on the same day). I also had an exam to study for which took place four days after that! I only took Xmas day off with my family, and ended up spending most of my five weeks off working – I was too stressed out to even enjoy New Year or the Xmas holiday with my family. (I do have to say, receiving it all back and having done well makes it feel * slightly * more worth it.)

We had basically no work to do from Sept – December, I see no reason why all the work was not assigned in October and due in Dec.

I came back to the new year feeling very drained and worn out, as I had actually worked harder over the break than I did on term time. While I don’t mind doing the work, I cannot fathom why they give us a break, and then force us to work the entire time. Would make more sense to just skip the formalities of calling it a break. I like my course…. but I think having even a few days of freedom to not be stressing about due dates would improve everyones’ over all performance. Maybe I’m just soft?!

Now we are approaching ‘Easter break’. Guess what… over six exams the week of returning! Great! :-)

Seelix's avatar

If it were an actual vacation, I’d say that no, there shouldn’t be homework.

The February break for universities (in Ontario, at least) is referred to as Reading Week. It’s a time to get things done. Whether they actually get done is a different story, of course.

sarahjane90's avatar

@Seelix, we have a ‘reading week’. Ironically, it is about three weeks into the start of the fall term….. when there is really no substantial work to be done yet. Who ever comes up with these schedules, is batty!

cak's avatar

Our schools are split. My daughter can get bogged down by assignments during vacations and my son usually has light work. For my son, it is a good thing. He has memory issues and it helps him stay on track. My daughter is too weighed down, at times.

I think, if anything, it should be light homework. Not pass or fail a class homework. (Daughter was given a 4 grade project the day before a vacation. Ridiculous.)

12Oaks's avatar

Absolutely not. I never liked regular homework. I always wondered “Just who does this stranger think (he or she) is by telling me what it is I am to do on my own personal time?” I wasn’t allowed to tell them what to do when they’re away from school. I absolutely refused to do homework out of my own personal protest. Doesn’t seem right. They had 6 or 7 hours to get their job done. If they couldn’t do it in that time, it seemed like it should be their problem, not mine. My boss can’t tell me now what to do on my own time, and if school is supposed to prepare you for the real world, then they shouldn’t be allowed to tell their charges what to do when it’s supposed to be their free time.

BarnacleBill's avatar

If the assignment was given two days before vacation, then it’s wrong. If the assignment was given two weeks before vacation, and poor time management resulted in cramming the work in at last minute, then that’s not the teacher’s problem.

Stuff like this happens all the time when you have a job. Just because you’re going on vacation, doesn’t mean you work your regular time the week before you leave, and let unfinished work pile up.

roundsquare's avatar

Over a week long vacation it seems silly. I don’t really think its the student’s right to have a homework free vacation, but its likely to be time the family wants to spend together.

On the other hand, homework over summer/winter vacation is fine. To @MyNewtBoobs point, what does it matter? The school is a system meant to teach… each teacher is just an employee of the school. In reality, its the school assigning you homework, the teacher is just give the discretion as to what exactly to assign.

babybadger's avatar

Good point @BarnacleBill . Just to clarify, I have no free time during my school week to do anything – projects included – other than my regular homework. I’m not exaggerating, either -I’m in 9th grade and in AP Chemistry, AP Prep World History, Geometry Honors and Honors English…
I’m a freshman in highschool….
I’m not putting off the work, I just don’t have time to get it done until the break, which is rather unfortunate.
Perhaps I’m just not being realistic – I suppose honors students should get more work, right?

MyNewtBoobs's avatar

@roundsquare Because I understand it in theory, but not in practicality. Teachers might just each be an employee, but that doesn’t mean they’re all just drones in a hive.

J0E's avatar

I’m going to elaborate on my answer.

The school is designed to teach. The school decides to give vacation time. Why even bother with giving vacation time if you’re going to litter it with school work? “Here’s an ice cream cone, but you don’t get the ice cream.” Doesn’t make sense.

SavoirFaire's avatar

I never assign work over vacation. As has been said, it is called “vacation” for a reason. That said, I agree with @MyNewtBoobs that assigning work well in advance and allowing it to be handed in after the vacation time is perfectly legitimate.

@12Oaks You weren’t allowed to tell teachers what to do after school because you weren’t the authority in the classroom. But your actions did, in fact, influence what they did in their off hours. Grading, for instance, is take-home part of the job for teachers—just as homework is a take-home part of being a student. So really, the roles are quite balanced in that way.

Furthermore, homework is a means for reinforcing the lesson given in class. Assigning homework, then, is part of a teacher’s job. You are being shortsighted in interpreting homework as a sign that teachers aren’t doing their job during the day. Coming up with assignments that properly reinforce the lesson is part of doing the job (and I assume they assigned them to you during the day).

Finally, your entire response operates on a false premise. Time after school is not free time the way that vacation time is (or is supposed to be). I suppose we could formalize it and keep kids in school longer for “homework periods,” though that seems unnecessary to me (especially as different students need different amounts of time to finish their work). The comparison to work is not apropos, either. For one thing, some employers can impose restrictions and obligations on what employees do when outside of the office our outside of normal work hours. It depends on the job. For another, the preparation for something and the actual doing of it are never exactly the same thing. Thus even if we accept that school is to prepare you for the real world, that it does not operate in exactly the same way is both immaterial and to be expected. Besides, the “real world” is more than just one’s working life. So telling us about what your employer can and cannot do is not sufficient.

SavoirFaire's avatar

@babybadger You’re welcome! This practice is fairly common at the university where I teach, though, as well as at other universities with which I am familiar. So maybe you’ll have better luck in a few years when you go to college.

perspicacious's avatar

Mine always had a reading list and written projects over the breaks. They complained about it but I always said “you are not out of school; that’s why it’s called a break.” Yes, I think it’s good for them (and their brains) to stay sharp during breaks.

Disc2021's avatar

Considering the increasing numbers of students that are stressed out or run into mental problems due to school workload, my first inclination is – absolutely not. A break is a break.

sarahjane90's avatar

@disc2021, Amen!

12Oaks's avatar

@SavoirFaire You may be right. I hated every second of school from day one until the day of my 16th birthday when I left that place for good. That could be the best decision I’ve ever made.

Oh, and I as well do plenty of “work stuff” off the clock as well as on my own time. The difference may be that no boss or authority figure mandates that onto me, but it is voluntarily done for the good of the company. You know, if they don’t make a profit we all lose and get fired.

And that shortsighted thing. You may be right, I don’t know. Was just looking at it from the point of view of a student, not a teacher. I especially hated assignments that I knew had nothing to do with anything that could be used in the real world once I’m out of there and working and stuff. The date that the Magna Carta was officially signed? Interesting, may do you well on Jeopardy, but since I left school some 26 years ago, this is the first time (I think) it has ever come up.

Sorry for the chip on the old shoulder, but I could only speak of my experience through the eyes from which it was seen.

12Oaks's avatar

@SavoirFaire Oh, and I know you really hate me and stuff, but that’s OK, but I have one more response.

I did have plenty of teachers who would declare “You all wasted so much time today that I’m assigning the material that we didn’t get to in class today as homework. Hope you dodn’t have any plans for after school, because now you have to cancel them.”

As an aside, I kept my plans and blew off the homework.

roundsquare's avatar

@MyNewtBoobs My only point was that the fact that they are not your teacher next year should not preclude them from giving you homework. When you say “they are not drones” I’m guessing you mean that they don’t all have to do the exact same thing. Thats true, but they need to act as per the guidelines the school gives. If the school says “give homework over summer vacation” they should do that. If the school leaves it up to the teachers, thats fine too. The school is making a decision based on whatever information they have. Maybe they think homework over summer will keep you sharp or keep you out of trouble or get you ready for the next year, etc… Do you really think you deserve 2–3 months of complete free time? These days I’m happy to get a week without work.

MyNewtBoobs's avatar

@roundsquare Ok, so say you assign kids an essay over the summer. Who do they hand it in to – you, or their new teacher? You no longer have any say in their grade, and you can talk to the new teacher (which is probably new teachers) and plead with them to spend their time grading an assignment they didn’t assign, but you can’t ensure that the new teachers will do anything about the essay. If they do grade the essay, are they using the rubric you assigned to the students, or their own? And either way, if a student feels their grade is unfair, who should they talk to about it – you or the new teacher? Are you and the new teacher going to really spend hours and hours of collaboration right at the beginning of a new year (which I would assume is a fairly busy time already) just to make sure you fairly grade and enforce this over-summer essay?

It doesn’t really matter if I think I deserve an entire summer off, powers much higher (and much higher than the teacher) have decided that deserving or not, I will get summer off.

Prosb's avatar

Usually for me the book reports were softly graded my teachers, they just wanted to get out of it that you actually read the book(s) that summer. We’d talk about the ideas the book was trying to present, since usually the summer books were supposed to be thought provoking I think. They also usually gave a test on the book around 2–3 weeks after school started, which I’ve always found easy if you bothered to read the book.

SavoirFaire's avatar

@12Oaks I don’t hate you, I pity you. So please respond all you wish.

As for you doing work outside of normal work hours, your willingness to do so makes it even less sensible for you to complain about teachers assigning homework. So you have only hurt your case in that regard. The fact remains, however, that some jobs can mandate that you do work outside of normal work hours.

Regarding the usefulness of your assignments that supposedly have no use in the real world, there is the obvious fact that you just tried to use one to your real world advantage (though that undermines your point). That aside, why do you assume that it is learning the date of the Magna Carta that was the only point of that assignment? You are learning skills in school, as well as getting a general education and being exposed to different subjects to see which—if any—you might want to continue studying. There is more to education than the superficial elements on which you seem so focused.

As for the declarations of your teachers, are you suggesting that they should not be able to punish students for wasting time? Indeed, making it so that the punishment furthers the course aims (as opposed to some pointless detentions) seems quite the smart move. It’s not that they couldn’t do their job and so left it to the students; it’s the students who wouldn’t do their jobs (i.e., listening and learning) and so had to do it after normal school hours. And it also teaches that actions have consequences—a real world lesson if I ever saw one.

12Oaks's avatar

@SavoirFaire Please don’t pity me, my life has turned out well. Well enough, anyway.

Honestly, though I have read them several times, I really don’t understand paragraphs #2 nor 3, so I really have no reply towards them. Sorry, but, well, you know….

As for #1, there is something I would like to comment about. I volunteer to do some stuff on my own time for the good of the company as a whole. Gotta keep production to a maximum to keep profits up. I wouldn’t work for a place who would mandate such things onto their employees. My time is my time. Please don’t pity me, though. There is nothing to pity. I make a good living, better than predicted. Much better. Am in good physical shape. Will go on hundreds of miles of bicycle treks. Lift those weights. Even won a bet from somebody who claimed that I couldn’t run a marathon, but I won by running a marathon equivalent. Oh, and I never, ever, had to take out a loan nor have I ever been in debt of any sort. Sure, I may not be the smartest guy on Earth, not even close, but there is nothing to pity. But I do thank you for your concern.

SavoirFaire's avatar

@12Oaks There’s that obsession with conspicuous consumption again. It’s not the superficial outcomes of your life I pity, though, so none of those things are relevant.

12Oaks's avatar

@SavoirFaire What do you pity then? My life turned out well, and I really see nothing up there about conspicuous consumption. Running, biking, weight lifting, not consuming and getting into debt. I realize I’m just a simple high school dropout, but nothing there is being consumed, conspicuously or not.

Oh, and there’s nothing wrong with making a good living. I hope you do, as well.

roundsquare's avatar

@MyNewtBoobs
Does it really matter who you physically hand it in to? Its not very tough to make sure that it gets to the right person.

The old teacher doesn’t have any control over your grade? Are you sure? Why can’t they grade the paper and have that be part of your new grade? Or why not amend the old grade? Maybe you only change the old grade if the kid obviously didn’t put any effort into the essay. Maybe you keep the grade open.

As for the rubric, it can go either way. If the old teacher will grade it, I guess they’d use their own rubric. If the new teacher will, they can use their rubric. Maybe they give you the rubric ahead of time or maybe they just expect you to write well. Chances are the grading will be more lenient on this paper anyway so its not a big deal.

If you think the grading is unfair, again you go to whoever graded it.

I doubt the teachers will collaborate on the grading (since that hardly every works for papers) but, again, if its part of the “system” one of the teachers will be required to spend the time grading the papers. If not, then the old teacher will probably spend the time grading it if he/she assigned it.

In any event, I don’t know how the system will work in any particular place, but there are multiple ways to make a summer essay work in fair and reasonable way. The details can quite easily be worked out. Here is one way:

For kids going from 9th to 10th grade, the 10th grade teachers decide on an essay topic and grading rubric they will use. Both of these are given to the students when they leave for the summer. Everyone hands in their papers on the first day of school to their new teachers and the teachers grade this paper. Grading is meant to be lenient so everyone effectively gets a certain boost (say 10%). This is the first grade you get for the semester.

I just made that up now so maybe it has some flaws, but it seems like it would work out pretty well.

“It doesn’t really matter if I think I deserve an entire summer off, powers much higher (and much higher than the teacher) have decided that deserving or not, I will get summer off.”

Who are you talking about? I know of no such power that has made a decision like that. I’m fairly sure that in my old school district (where my sister is now a student) this decision has been left up to the teachers.

SavoirFaire's avatar

@12Oaks The reasons I pity you have been canvased elsewhere, but they go back to your obsession with money and your need to tell people how well you think you’re doing. It suggests deep psychological problems that you need to be so conspicuous about it, even when it’s completely off-topic. You try too hard to convince us—and to convince yourself—that your life is great. It’s quite sad, and exactly the sort of thing that is characteristic of the character described in that passage from Plato’s Republic that I mentioned on another thread.

MyNewtBoobs's avatar

@roundsquare Well, I (along with most American students) went to a public school. Where did you go that this decision was left up to the teachers? The number of days my school had to be open was decided by the state (if not federal) legislature, not the school board, not the principle, and definitely not the lowly teachers. (Note: I say lowly because they are treated that way by the system, not because I think they are).

Edit: May I ask where you are, and how old you are?

roundsquare's avatar

@MyNewtBoobs I too went to public school in the US. I’m 27.

So, first of all, are you agreeing that homework over summer does not suffer from the problems you raised earlier or do you still think its untenable?

That aside, the fact that certain decisions are not left to teachers doesn’t mean no decisions are left to teachers. In fact, as I understand it, homework is usually left in the hands of teachers. I haven’t done any research on this, but I doubt that there is any state or federal regulation which instructs teachers not to give homework over summer vacation (either directly or indirectly). In fact, I would think it unwise to legislate that level of detail with such broad strokes.

MyNewtBoobs's avatar

@roundsquare No, I still think it’s untenable and don’t think you provided any real solutions to those problems other than shrugging and going “eh, it’ll get done”. But I thought since you said your teachers decided if you got any time off for summer, then maybe you were in some small village in another country where the school got to do things like that. My school, the teachers got to assign homework, but not over the summer, not anytime they would no longer be my teacher, and there were standards they had to meet – ie, min. and max. hours, focus on writing, etc.

You might think it’s unwise to legislate that much, but it doesn’t change how much legislation has already happened.

12Oaks's avatar

@SavoirFaire I don’t have an obscession with money. You seem to be reading way too much into things. Oh, and while I do appreciate the concern, truly, I don’t believe in that phychological stuff, so will be passing on the laying on a couch and telling some stranger a lot of stuff that is, frankly, none of his/her business. Just never bought into that.

I would read Plato, but I try my best not to read foreign authors, though a couple have slipped through the cracks. But I can’t intentionally read one, it just against the rules.

May I suggest to you to read The Spellman Files. For no reason, except for it’s a fun book, with three fun follow-ups. By Lisa Lutz, and American author.

ragingloli's avatar

“I would read Plato, but I try my best not to read foreign authors”

wow

12Oaks's avatar

@ragingloli May I ask what is wrong with setting guidelines?I read a lot, can’t read everything, so have to have some sort of order.

ragingloli's avatar

@12Oaks
There is nothing wrong with setting guidelines per se, but excluding authors simply because of their nationality, especially in light of the fact that the most important works were written by non-american author’s, is, to put it mildly, unwise.

How would you react if the response to
“May I suggest to you to read The Spellman Files. For no reason, except for it’s a fun book, with three fun follow-ups. By Lisa Lutz, and American author.”
was “Sorry, I do not read books by american authors.”?

babybadger's avatar

@12Oaks – I think that’s a biased way of “setting guidelines”... You are excluding diversity from your reading, which in turn could cause you to become biased…Knowledge of different phrases, wording, styles, culture, etc. can be gained from reading pieces by people other than Americans. Just my opinion – you would become more well-rounded if you read books by authors of different nationalities. Harry Potter, The Iliad – so many wonderful pieces of literature you’re missing out on, whatever genre or age.

MyNewtBoobs's avatar

@12Oaks But America has only been around for 250ish years. Literature has been around for several thousand. I can’t imagine not reading Shakespeare just because he lived during a time when being an American (of the US, not a native of the continents) wasn’t an option.

SavoirFaire's avatar

@12Oaks You do not need to go to some movie stereotype psychologist (the only ones who still use couches, by the way) in order to deal with psychological problems, nor am I suggesting you do so. But I suppose you were more concerned with giving yet another misanthropic answer than actually considering the problem. Oh, well… exactly what Plato said you would do.

12Oaks's avatar

It was sort of tongue and cheek why I prefer American authors, but I will explain how I cam to such a conclusion, using that Plato book as the example.

The over/under of books I read in whatever time is probably 1,000, though the under may be the safer bet, but not by much. I used to read a lot of non-fiction, text types, historical, and the such. You know, learning material. Whenever I would try to join in a discussion of, say, Antebellum, once it was discovered that my knowledge was obtained by reading library books and not that of the formal classroom, anything I had to say on the subject was immediately dismissed by the more learned and my input was nullified. Fine, so I just quit reading those types of educational books. No need to try when failure is the predicted outcome. That Plato book would surely book considered a learning book, so that is strike one.

I’m also political minded. Could surely hold a discussion on my own, and do. However, I really don’t want to read any book by a politicain, political pundit, commentator, radio host, TV news show guy or any of that. I won’t read It Takes a Village, The Way Things Ought to Be, Lessons of my Father, The Savage Nation, or anyone in that genre. If I were interested in what they had to say, I’d just turn on my radio or CNN or the like. I have no interest in reading their books, and that Plato thing surely is in this category.

I like to have fun when reading. I hated The Great Gatspy. Threw away The Grapes of Wrath after about 80 pages (Though that thing about the turtle still does fascinate me) and just don’t like any book that takes itself too seriously. Sure, there may be exceptions to prove this rule, like Hangover Soup, maybe, but as a whole, not my thing. Plato took himself too seriously. Another strike.

After reading and reading and reading, I found very few books by foreign authors I really liked. The ones I could think of are The Black Violin, Guitar Girl, the Theodora series, Please, Mr. Einstein, and Soap Suds. So many more, like War and Peace, Moby Dick, the confusing The Visitors Book, anything by that Jane Austen lady. Just couldn’t connect with them. They either talk way too smart or use language I am not familiar with (That bloke gave my 5 quid for a pint) causing me to have to stop and look up words to understand what in the world they are talking about. Plato surely strikes a whiff on this one.

It’s just that I have found more enjoyment reading books written by ladies (westerns and sports books the exception) who are younger who write about single young ladies who move to the big city and try to make a life for themselves. That’s what Slave to Fashion, an English written book, was about, but that went back to the library after about 30 pages. Was way too out there for me. And, yes, this 6’1”, 250 daddy who doesn’t get professional haircuts or hasn’t shaven in over a decade is quite often seem wherever it is he goes carrying, and enjoying, those Avalon Career Romance books. I may get a funny look reading them, but I don’t care. And seeing that that Plato book isn’t in the category, the old man had struck out.

Oh, and I read Shakespear in high school—hated it!!!

Really, though, as much as I’d love to just go into the library, grab the book closest to the door, and read every one in order, it just doesn’t work out that way. I found a style and type of book I like, and see no reason to change. My curent book is a Monk mystery, and next on the list is Extracurricular Activities—about a murder at a college, the second in a series.

I did, however, download that Iliad on my phone Kindle. Will give that a chance in due time.

Hope this isn’t too close minded or whatever, but if you like cheeseburgers for dinner every night, there’s realy no need to buy a caserol dish.

Oh, and @SavoirFaire—despite what you may read into some of my statements on the Fluther thing here, I’m not a nut job. But thanks for your concern.

12Oaks's avatar

@ragingloli Sorry, I almost forgot. If you decline my book recommendation because your filter says you prefer not to read Americans, my reaction would be “Your choice. Doesn’t bug me none.” Not unlike if I invite someone to the baseball game and they decline because that’s not an activity they enjoy. I’d say “Fair enough,” and then take me out to the ball game, will take me out with the crowd. I may buy me some peanuts or cracker jacks, and wouldn’t care if I ever got back. I root, root, root for the home team, and it’s a shame if they lose. It is 1,2,3 strikes and you’re out at the old ball game.

BarnacleBill's avatar

Wow. The Founding Fathers read Plato. It’s about as American as you can get.

12Oaks's avatar

I been just studying up on this Plato guy. It is some interesting stuff, will grant you. I like the part where he said along the lines of just thinking about space is good enough, no need to look into the telescopes and see what’s out there. The real quote being “He (Plato) believed that ideas were far more real than the natural world. He advised the astronomers not to waste their time observing the stars and planets. It was better, he believed, just to think about them. Plato expressed hostility to observation and experiment. He taught contempt for the real world and disdain for the practical application of scientific knowledge. Plato’s followers succeeded in extinguishing the light of science and experiment that had been kindled by Democritus and the other Ionians.”

I do find it interesting that someone who recommends Plato as a way of life, and critisizes others for buying baseball tickets as being conspicious consumption, said in another thread that they would happily allow Lindsey Lohan to borrow, and crash, her car so she could then get three nrand new cars for absolutely free. I’d never accept anything like that, I like to earn my money and pay for my own things. Or, maybe I misread Plato. High school drop-outs aren’t that smart, you know.

Oh, and with all due respect, what the Founding Fathers read hardly makes a good arguement, at least in this in my opinion. Ben Franklin liked to walk around naked, and the post office he invented is now so slow, costly, and outdated that someone like me hasn’t used it in over a decade. They won’t stop putting garbage in my property, though I asked them to stop, but that’s way off topic. On topic is, teachers shouldn’t assign homework during vacations.

SavoirFaire's avatar

@12Oaks I’m not recommending Plato as a way of life. As a philosopher, I have many disagreements with Plato. But I am not so foolish as to think that someone I generally disagree with can never have a good point or something interesting to say. Indeed, reading books by people I disagree with can be as informative—and often more informative—than reading books that merely confirm what I already believe.

As for the Lindsey Lohan comment, that was a joke. And obviously so, I think. Regardless, even if I were willing to take advantage of a particular situation for the money, that would be quite different from being obsessed with money or endlessly talking about one’s possessions.

12Oaks's avatar

@SavoirFaire I can’t agree with you any more on that first paragraph. I used to love it when Jesse Jackson Jr. came on the local talk radio show every week. I disagreed with almost everything he said, but just loved listening to him. He was informative, well spoken, laid out his ideals clearly, made you know exactly where he came from, and was a great guest despite I disagreed with most of what he said. He decided not to do that anymore since, well, his name came up in the Blagojevich investigation. See, he really is a smart man.

About paragraph 2, I honestly believe you either are misunderstanding something or are focusing on something that is wrong. I am not obsessed with money. I may make a little fun comments about “tax-free income,” something we all do, or the sort. I may even have said that I would never buy a new car because of the cost (I also don’t need a new car). But I’m really not obsessed with money. For most things to me, price is a secondary factor. Sure, I won’t pay $25,000 for a car when you could get a perfectly good one for $1,500 or so, I’m really not sure, been so long since I bought a car, or a van.

I finished that Monk book yesterday, took it back to the library, and my new book is Tallie’s Song. Yep, it’s an Avalon Romance, and I ain’t ashamed to admit it.

And the reason I use the library isn’t because it’s free. I’m just not really the type to keep books. Once I read them, there is of little use. I do have a few to keep, very little. But if the library doesn’t have the book I am looking for, I buy it from Amazon.com, then donate it to the library when done. Not sure what anybody could read into that. It just seems like one of those win/win/win situations I always strive for.

SavoirFaire's avatar

@12Oaks The very fact that you need to mention that you don’t use the library because it is free is indicative of what I’m talking about. I never would have went there in my mind. I don’t think of the library in those terms. The problem is that you almost always turn the conversation to money or items that you own—even when it’s not relevant. You take an inordinate amount of joy being a few dollars up. You seem to have some need to parade in front of us what you take to be marks of your success. You are trying to justify yourself to yourself by justifying yourself to us. It’s the same thing going on in the “win/win/win” comment, which contains an extra “win” from the normal phrase just to emphasize that you’re getting your value’s worth.

The fact that your obsession comes through strongest in your responses to these school-related questions suggests that education is the root of your insecurity. You have some need to justify to the rest of us your decision to quit school. Why can’t you just be happy with your decision if it was really the best one for you? I don’t mean to say it wasn’t the best decision in your circumstances. It very well might have been. But your need to tear down the educational system in general to justify your decision is also indicative that you are uneasy about the situation somewhere deep down (even if you present us with endless bravado to the contrary).

12Oaks's avatar

@SavoirFaire You really are reading way too much into what I say. I never once mentioned how much money I have, or anything specifically about my work compensation package or any of that. Nobody, besides my employer and myself, knows what my package contains. Not even my wife. It’s nobody elses business. I never said how much I paid for anything, except for maybe a penny book from amazon. You’re reading way too much into things, you really are.

As far as the quitting school thing? I mentioned that because it is in answer to the original question. Once of the million and seven reasons I quit is because I didn’t like the idea of strangers thinking they could mandate what I do off school time, off school grounds. That’s the only reason that was mentioned in this thread, to support my original answer of “No, I don’t think they should assign homework on vacations.” Oh, and I don’t tear down the educational system in general, but object to the public educational system. A big difference there. My kid will never see a public classroom. My choice, right?

SavoirFaire's avatar

@12Oaks Yes, your choice. That doesn’t make your reasons good ones. And you’ve mentioned the school thing elsewhere. Ah, well… it’s not like I expected you to change. You are, of course, free to ignore what I’ve said here.

12Oaks's avatar

@SavoirFaire I’ve only mentioned school things on school questions. I just made comments on a water heater thing. You are, as well, free to ignore me. Just gave ya a “great answer” upgrade, ‘cause I do like you, believe it or not. We may disagree on things, but hey, welcome to life.

MyNewtBoobs's avatar

@12Oaks You don’t let your wife know how much money the two of you are earning?

12Oaks's avatar

@MyNewtBoobs She never asked, actually. I take care of all the household finances, bill paying, household shopping, household repairs, etc. If she really wanted to know, and she asked, I guess I’d tell her. It never came up, and it wouldn’t matter, anyway.

SavoirFaire's avatar

@12Oaks As I’ve said before, I do not dislike you either. And I’ve given you GAs when I thought they were deserved.

LostInParadise's avatar

My first inclination is to say that there should be no homework during vacation, that students deserve some time off. Then I thought what a great opportunity it would be to use vacation time as a way of studying the real world, as opposed to the textbook world. Some possible assignments:
Go to local government meetings do a writeup on one issue that comes up.
Visit a traffic court and write about the types and outcomes of cases where people are represented by lawyers.
Go to local pizzerias and compute the cost per pie.

12Oaks's avatar

@SavoirFaire I heard that name you have there before, but one day I have to look up what it means.

Anyway, I forgot to mention something before this things gets all wrapped up. As far as the “win-win-win scenario” that seemed to perplex you a bit, maybe, will just say I didn’t make that up. It’s been around a while. It simply means that en every situation, nobody loses and all involved, not only two involved directly in a trade, wins. Look at this version if you like, if for nothing else but to see I wasn’t the one who made it up.

http://www.squidoo.com/win-win-win

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