Am I the bad kisser here?

Different people have different ways of kissing… so, I don’t think either one of you was the ’bad’ kisser. Next time you kiss him, be brave and try to take over the kissing for him ; )

I don’t thnk you were the bad kisser. I don’t think you should judge kissing. Relationships are a negotiation and a learning experience. You can’t be expected to read each other’s minds and know exactly how to please them.

The first time I kissed my first lover, she kissed like a bird. Peck, peck, peck, peck. I asked her to slow down. She did, and she became a much better kisser.

Communication. Ask for what you want. People like to please. You’ll do fine.

wundayatta…that’s exactly how I would describe it. too much pecking and very very little tongue kissing! and when he did tongue kiss it was very fast.

I tried to go slow because I assume that when you first kiss someone slow is best because you get a FEEL of how they like things…not just dive into it.

So what should I do? It’s been a day and I’m still feeling embarrassed…and I dread talking to him or seeing him again. I still like him…it’s just that embarrassment.

My ex of 5 years was a kissing ‘wh0r3’ and he never tried to change how I kiss despite me being inexperienced. He said I was pretty good and got a lot better as time went by. I did ask him honestly because I wanted to know to be better.

Ah…..the legacy of the “bad kisser”. <sigh>

I dated a man who kissed like an iguana. He would flick his tongue in and out so fast that it felt like I was at Studio 54 under a strobe light. He never changed, unfortunately, but I never said anything (mostly because he probably would have gotten huffy…he was like that.) This is what I have learned…if a man eats food slowly, he will probably be a great kisser! (lol) If a man plays the trumpet…same thing!

I think your guy hasn’t kissed you very well because a) he probably never learned how b) he came late to dating and might have been the nurd in school so hasn’t had a lot of practice c) he was super nervous, wondering when that kiss would come and then he just imploded!

I always try to make a joke out of awkward things like that….and usually over the phone (so I don’t have to look the person in the eye as that stops me from saying things sometimes). Just take the situation in hand (so to speak) and Think Jennifer Aniston in “Friends” in the following dialogue:

You: You know that kiss we had…?
Him: Yes…what about it?
You: Well…I would like to try that all over again, when we are not so nervous. I was so happy that we were finally kissing…that I didn’t have a chance to slow down, take it easy and really enjoy it. I think we should have some practice sessions….okay, a LOT of practice sessions….!
Him: Sure! Sounds good to me.

(Now, when you do get together…sit with him on a sofa and kiss….not in a doorway, hold his face and tell him….“Let’s take this really slowly….” and then guide him…gently to slow down and savor the moment. This will work, Chelle….but you have to be brave and not shy!)

I honestly think that he has no clue as to what he is doing…and no one has ever bothered (or perhaps they have just not been bold enough) to tell him or work with him and enlighten him.

If he is a good guy and has no other problems….then kissing is an art that you can teach him. That is an easy thing.

Good luck!

I’m guessing that he’s the one with the lack of experience and initiative here, judging simply from what you said: it took forever to get to “first kiss”, and with the various elements that you mentioned regarding “awkwardness”, it seems clear (to me, anyway) that he doesn’t know what he’s doing. So show him.

“I like the thought of kissing you. I want you to enjoy it as much as I do. I want you to kiss me again. Here, follow my lead, and then you take over.” Show him by example exactly what you want. Try to avoid “telling” him what you want, that makes it seem too clinical, too much an exercise in syntax and meanings of words – and you probably have different meanings for some words, too. So show him in a very pleasurable way what you like, what turns you on, what you want to get from him. And let him know that you’re open to experimentation, new techniques, even jokes once in awhile, but when you get a kiss from him, you want it to be a for-real-I-mean-this kiss.

I see that @DarlingRhadamanthus wrote my answer for me as I was composing this one.

Actually, you would think he would have more experience.. He’s had 3 relationships but his longest was 7 months. From the looks of it, most of the girls always leave him or lose interest. I’ve been in one relationship but it was for 5 years.

I don’t know if I suck or not… but the way he kissed was like kiss kiss kiss…with tongue for half a second!

Nah, it’s not you. He seems a litle eager to play tonsil hockey, call a time out & tell him to slow down. Game on! ;¬}

Practice.

If it was me, I’d want you to tell me where I was going wrong… There’s nothing worse than an unsatisfied woman…
As was said up above… “I honestly think that he has no clue as to what he is doing…and no one has ever bothered (or perhaps they have just not been bold enough) to tell him or work with him and enlighten him.
If he is a good guy and has no other problems….then kissing is an art that you can teach him. That is an easy thing“.
:-/

You can teach him if he wants to be taught.

It wasn’t disgusting. Just awkward.

that would be hard for us to determine

I have never forgotten my first kiss because it was so awful. He was maybe nervous, anyway it can only get better.

face palm

That probably explains why he waited so long. Other girls may have lost interest after the first strange kiss. You might need to teach him.

Um, excuse me, but if you don’t enjoy kissing the person because the way he/she kisses turns you off, are you just supposed to write it off as awkward?

If that’s what I felt then yes.

Judi… I think that may have a lot to do with it.

I agree with @DarlingRhadamanthus. Your fellow appears to be inexperienced, despite the fact that he had other girlfriends (they were probably inexperienced too, so no one could be the teacher). You’ve have just the right amount of experience where you can gently teach and guide him. Don’t be afaid to let him know what you like and don’t like. Just be very gentle and sweet with him, but do guide him. And practice.

Those of us that were lucky, were taught how to kiss by someone that already had experience and knew how to do it well. And luckier yet, if our coaches were gentle and patient and asked us what felt good to us, while showing us what felt good to them.

Now don’t forget to watch those video clips that I sent you ;-p

Talk with him and work it out.

Give him a few tries to get over his nervousness, work on letting him know what you like. But if that doesn’t do it – I can’t imagine continuing a romantic relationship with someone that I don’t like to kiss. Yuck.

@syz That was exactly what I was saying.

I broke up with a gorgeous, gorgeous, lovely man who was a bad kisser. I still feel kind of bad about it too. He really was the sweetest person and so into me but his kisses .. oh my goodness. He had at some point broken his nose and so he had a lot of saliva and it just grossed me out! I couldn’t stand it. I put up with it for a little while but then… no… I just couldn’t put up with it any longer. Sad… but what can you do. Kissing is so lovely when it is good and so bad when it is bad!

@Bellatrix ; That reminds me of a boy in HS that I broke up with because his saliva was crusty and it gave me an ear infection. I never told him why.
Th doctor finally had to use an eye drop to clear it up. Nothing was working.

@Bellatrix Boy do I know the feeling. A bad kisser, if he doesn’t improve can make or break a situation. There was a guy that I dated briefly, we were pretty good friends for awhile before we dated, and continued to be good friends afterwards, but his tongue was really rough and big. He was a drooler and what I can only describe as a macker (trying to mac out on me like I was a big juicy steak or something, moving around all fast and slobbery) and he had super dry, chapped lips all the time. I just wasn’t feeling it. I felt terrible, but I just couldn’t get past it and he didn’t improve after a handful of dates and kisses.

It’s funny, though, because about 6 month later, he ended up going out with a mutual friend of ours and it was like they were the love of each other’s lives. She either didn’t mind his technique, or she taught him how to do it right.

Oh dear Judi. That is very bad. I am trying to connect the ear infection with his saliva. So, this was from kissing and the connection of the ears/nose/throat etc? Or he liked to get a bit of tongue action in on your ears?

I felt so mean and I didn’t tell him why either. I made up an excuse and felt very mean. Still do. He was so, so sweet!!! And really freaking gorgeous! Perhaps I should have just banned kissing.

@Bellatrix My friend was very sweet too and looked like a dead ringer for Mick Jagger, only blonde. I felt terrible too, but I just couldn’t stand how it felt, and because of that, I couldn’t muster up any passion or lust. It just felt gross and it was like kissing a relative. It just felt wrong. Luckily, he was pretty popular and had no hard feelings toward me. We continued to be friends, even after he started dating the love of his life. She was a mutual friend of ours, and I never divulged to her about my awful experience.

Oh my I can so relate to your description @kardamom .. glad he found love though. Don’t know about mine. He was always polite when we ran into each other but I think he thought I was an utter bitch and truthfully, I deserved it.

@bellatrix, it was the latter.

I guess on the bright side…his kiss wasn’t disgusting as in drooling, open mouth, and nastyness right everyone? LOL It was more about his pace and movement.

oh dear @judi. That is so not good.

Yes. Crusty ear licking is gross when it gives you an exotic ear infection.

@Judi has just come up with this week’s Fluther band name: The Crusty Ear Licks!

Please come and get your prize : )

@chelle21689 No, your fellow’s kiss was not even remotely bad in comparison to mine and @Judi‘s and @Bellatrix‘s baaaaaaad kisses.

@Judi,....Oh Judi, Judi, Judi…. @Kardamom is right! But guess what? You just won another prize…though…you won the prize for making me laugh the hardest today!

@Kardamom….....I’ve never had a drooler. I don’t know how I would react to that. Bring a hankie?? :)

@Bellatrix….oooooooooh…..eeeek That was fairly awful, eh? Saliva Sam.

@chelle21689…I think you will be fine!

There is another kisser I remember….the “suction cup kisser”. That’s the one that kisses you , mouth open, no tongue and just kisses you all over your face making “pop-pop” sounds like a suction cup. so not sexy, so nooooot sexy

what the hell? suction cup kisser? what makes anyone think that it’d feel good for someone? lol

Did I mention that I play trumpet? ;-)

@DarlingRhadamanthus The Suction Cup Kisser makes me think of an octopus and tentacles. Ewwwwww!

@wundayatta Please give @chelle21689 a description of a good kiss by a man, coming from your point of view. All of us ladies have been chiming in here, with what is a bad kiss, she needs to know what you guys do (that your ladies seem to like) that is a good kiss from a man.

Well, maybe I don’t have @wundayatta‘s chops on the topic in this forum, but I’ve never had a complaint, either. I will allow that my first kiss was also my worst ever, not simply from inexperience, but because the girl and I didn’t particularly like each other, either. I don’t know if it was her first kiss or not; I doubt that it was. But it was a first-and-only date. I digress. Anyway, he’s not answering right now, so…

There are so many elements to a good kiss that the first things to be established are the mood, timing and setting. You can’t often have a good kiss when you’re angry with each other, or distracted, or anxious about something else, hungry, in pain, etc. etc. (Although I’ve had very successful kisses in most of those circumstances, that’s a setting that I’d say is for “advanced kissers only”. Not to sound too immodest.) So you’ll want a time when you have some time – to yourselves, preferably; though public kisses can be memorable, that’s another “advanced” topic – and you’re both at least receptive to the idea of being in the mood, if you’re not already “in the mood”.

Timing for a “first kiss” is pretty special, generally. You can’t rush it, but you don’t want to delay it for days and weeks if you think she likes you, and if you like her. But you also don’t want to just “have a kiss” when you happen to have a minute or two to spare, either. It helps to have set up a nice date or other occasion where she’s feeling mellow and receptive. (Not “beholden”; you can never feel as if you’re “owed” a kiss. That’s one of the worst kinds of kisses there must be, I think. The thought is repellent to me.)

And the setting should be a place where you both feel comfortable, or at least not subject to overt stares, criticism, judgment by others – in front of parents or children, for example – and safe. I like to make sure that we’re on the same level, physically, so with a shorter woman – and most women are shorter than I am – it helps to be seated on a couch (which is also comfortable) or to be near stairs, so that she can stand on a stair or two higher and our faces are at approximately the same elevation.

All of that is the prelude to a kiss – not to be confused with the movie of the same name – but that has to be, if not “planned for”, at least considered in making the first kiss. (Or almost any “meaningful” kiss, really. Though kisses can be “stolen” at almost any time, including times that may be completely inappropriate for a deep kiss.) One works out the details of the prelude with experience, but one does have to work it out somehow. Good kisses seldom happen out of the blue; there has to be a fair amount of thought put into the process. (And thinking about good kissing is pleasurable in and of itself; time well spent, I think.)

So. You’ve got the girl, the time and place are right, and you have the time to devote to the process, and you’re ready and think she is. How do you kick this thing off so that, like nuclear fission, it runs on its own? (Hey, I have an engineering background; it’s not as if I have to reduce the thing to clinical, technical engineering type terms, but I do think that way and analogize – and I’ve never tried to describe this process in words before.)

The best kissing session I ever initiated was nearly that cut-and-dried. I had had a wonderful first date with a woman. We had been emailing and telephone chatting for awhile and were comfortable with the idea of the first meeting, but we hadn’t met face to face. I met her in the lobby of a nearby hotel where she was spending the night on a business trip. She had told me that she wanted to meet there, publicly, to get a feel for whether she was still comfortable, and then ‘maybe’ go somewhere. (She was very personal-security conscious.) She no sooner stepped off the elevator after I called to tell her I was waiting, than she said, “Hello. Let’s go wherever you had in mind.” I took that as a good sign.

We went out to a local restaurant and had a light dinner, and then I took her… bowling. She had never been before, and she was pretty awkward at it, but she had fun. (And I heartily recommend bowling with attractive women. If you don’t know or can’t imagine why, then I can’t possibly help you.) After an hour or so of that I figured that I didn’t want to press my luck with her and stretch out the evening if she was still wanting to take this slow, so I offered to take her back to the hotel.

On the drive there, I remarked that I had had a wonderful time and that I certainly hoped we could do this again sometime, or something like it. She (she’s always pretty reserved, anyway) admitted that it had been nice, and was noncommittal on a continuation, but not averse to it, either. Then I offered her a Wint-o-green Lifesaver™ and had one for myself. And I set up what was to follow.

I told her that as much fun as I had had, and as much as I hoped to see her again, I thought that “We should really try a first kiss, because I’m sure you wouldn’t want to spend much time with me if I can’t kiss you pleasantly and well, and… I might be turned off, myself, if she couldn’t kiss.” She laughed out loud at the suggestion, and then agreed.

So when we got back to the hotel, we walked into the lobby together and sat down on a couch and watched a little television there while we talked about inconsequential stuff… and finished our mints. Then I turned to her and said something like “D___, I don’t want you to think of this as ‘something to be gotten over’ or ‘a chore’ or anything like that, but I’ve been looking forward to kissing you since before we met, and meeting you has made me really want to do that. So…”

Now a word about technique.

You really need to “control” the action. I don’t mean forcefully or roughly, not in the least. Gently, always gently, but firmly, so that some of the awkwardness is dispelled. Like dancing, really. One of you has to take the lead, and should do that. (I’ve been led through some pretty amazing kisses by some wonderful women, but it’s generally a thing that I lead myself.) One good way is to hold her face between the palms of your hands and gently – always gently – maneuver her head the way you want it relative to yours. If she wants to kiss you, you’ll know now. And if she doesn’t, you’ll know that, too, and you’d better have some way “out” of the embrace short of just recoiling in order to avoid extreme embarrassment for both of you! Other ways of accomplishing the same thing are: her chin held lightly between your thumb and the length of your forefinger (just as a guide! you’re not trying to tame a horse, here!) or holding her shoulders to help guide placement. (Best to help guide her head, though, if it’s your first time together; it helps to avoid the nose-bump that no one minds a week later, but no one wants on that first time, either.)

The man’s lips should be ‘moistened’, but not ‘wet’. (They should also be ‘dry to the touch’, but not leathery.) Firm, but not ‘hard’. Hopefully you will have planned so that you’re not kissing with chapped lips, a runny (or stuffed-up) nose or some other physical affliction that will prevent full enjoyment (and heaven help you if you give her a cold!). Shaving can be important. If you’re normally clean-shaven, then you’d best not have a one-day stubble; those things can hurt her (and if the kissing gets at all passionate, then they will give her a feeling like a sunburn). You should have pleasant (at least ‘not-unpleasant’) breath. (It helps to have eaten more or less the same foods earlier; if you both have the fish, the garlic, the onion, whatever, then she won’t even smell those things on your breath.) Your teeth had better well have been brushed recently!

Once I’ve guided her face to ‘dock’ with mine (okay, you come up with a better term!) then I don’t need to guide her face or head any more. Now my hands are free to touch her elsewhere. And by god you had better touch her. How and where is up to the relationship and trust you’ve established (and maybe by where you are, too). I like to hold her hips, because I’ve heard that it adds to her enjoyment – and it certainly adds to mine! But around the rib area is good, too, or a real embrace where your arms are wrapped around each other is great, also. But you have to touch her. For the first kiss I’m never touching her in an overtly sexual manner: not grabbing or stroking breasts, thighs or fanny. (I sure think about it, though.)

As your lips meet, you have to feel what to do next. Really, that’s all that kissing is, in a nutshell: it’s “feeling with your lips and tongue”. You don’t “suck” or “lick” or anything like those things. But you feel her lips with your lips and tongue, and allow her to feel yours, too. As you progress you can even “feel her teeth” with your tongue (and hopefully she’ll do the same). The whole process is a simple “reach and withdraw”. If she kisses you with her mouth open, then she’s at least willing to consider your tongue. If not, and she’s kissing you with her mouth closed (not “tightly closed”, but simply “lips together”), then you can feel her lips tentatively with your tongue. If you get the sensation that you are “licking” her, then you are definitely doing something wrong. (Maybe just over-thinking, for example.) There’s a time and place for “licking” a woman with your tongue, but it’s not her mouth, and not your first kiss.

I might have more to say on the topic later, but I’m also interested to hear what @wundayatta might have to add.

That first night, by the way, we ended up making out – just kissing and non-sexually touching – in the lobby of a Holiday Inn Express for about two hours. I know I’ve never done anything like that before, and I know absolutely that she never had, either. She just wasn’t the kind of woman to kiss in public at all.

Oh My My My, I am swooning right now @WasCy !

This is exactly what I wanted to hear. Now excuse me while I go and find a bucket of cold water to dump over myself.

I love that you put this in such romantic terms instead of merely sexual terms, girls love this kind of talk, at least I know I do

Now @wundayatta, can you add anything to this? Or can any of you other fellows top this?

I think this may be the best answer of all time, that I’ve ever seen on Fluther ;- P

The biggest complaint I hear when women talk about this is what you mentioned—tongue. It sounds horrible when a woman says the guy was trying to lick her tonsils.

I think that for men, we are so fucking horny that, a lot of the time, that’s our only focus. Tongue fucking and then cock fucking and hopefully a little sucking in between. Best if it’s all about you. I’m not defending this one little bit. I think it sounds horrible. But I think that no one teaches us about the pleasures of seduction—of making her want to fuck your mind. Because once she wants that, a world of possibilities opens up.

Kissing, like love making, in my opinion, is for fun. It is for play. It’s not about technique. It’s about expression, and in particular letter her know how much you are into her. Kissing, if done well enough, can make you cry. It can be so intense.

But like everything physical in a relationship, I think it must come from the emotions. You use your body to express your feelings—especially so for guys. Although women want to be seduced. They want to be desired. They want to know they are the center of your world. If you’re with the right woman, that is so damn easy, it isn’t funny.

But even if the emotion isn’t that deep, it’s still got to be where your kiss starts from. So even before that, you want her emotions humming. You want her to know what you love about her. You want to tease her a little—perhaps verbally, or maybe physically. Keep the tension going. Will this happen? Will it not? When will it start? How will it start.

I love to breathe a woman. I look her in her eyes, and relax, so she relaxes, too. It’s not a starting contest. It’s an opening to, for lack of a better word, her soul, and it should be treated as the most precious thing ever.

You may be holding her by her waist or her shoulders, and at some point you want to draw her towards you, but preferable not before you are both breathing a bit intensely, and possibly in unison. Her mouth might open slightly. This may not be anticipation, but more falling deeply into the moment.

You’ve got to get out of your head. The thoughts and the plans must fly away. You have to focus completely on her. You have to understand her essence so well, you are breathing her in and out of you. She, by the way, is doing the same thing, one hopes.

This creates an attention. You are the center of each other’s worlds. Your eyes swirl back and forth between her eyes and mouth. You want to see every quiver of her lip and every widening of her pupils. Well, not see it, because you really shouldn’t be conscious of these things, but be aware of it inside your… center… being… whatever.

At this point, you are out of your own way. Because planning is the worst thing to do. When you get out of the way, you can tune in to your partner, and when looking in her eyes, and breathing together, you start to feel gravity pulling you towards each other.

Close and closer. You can feel her breath sweetly perfuming the air between you. Maybe your noses touch, you nuzzle. Maybe your foreheads rest against each other, and you stop for a moment, to take in the feeling of her in your arms. Her weight. Whether is pressing her body to yours of holding it apart. How quickly she is breathing.

You want to ask yourself whether she is really into this or not, because if she isn’t it ain’t worth shit to force her to kiss you. She must come willingly or not at all. If you are selfish, you may not pay attention to this and just ram your kiss on through. And I hate to say it, but if I were a woman with a man who isn’t paying attention to me, I’d call a cab and get the hell on home right then and there.

So if she is holding back, this isn’t good. It could mean she’s nervous or insecure, or it could mean you’ve blown it already. If she’s nervous or whatever, it’s ok. It means she needs more from you. It means she needs more in order to come to trust you; to feel safe with you. And you want her to feel safe. Safe so she can take risks and walk on the wild side. If she feels safe, then you can play all kinds of games—even pretending to scare her or whatever. Games of arousal. But that’s not where we’re at right now.

Right now, you want to know if you both can pay attention to each other. If she’s not there, there’s no point. If she doesn’t trust you, there’s no point. But is she is open and present and feeling safe, you can have the best kiss of your life.

Like @WasCy said (I only skimmed his answer, but I did catch this), it’s a dance. The eye dance. The nose dance. The arms and body dance. You are fully focused on all these things (but not in a conscious way—just a being way). So you lean closer and she lifts her lips towards yours. She probably closes her eyes in anticipation.

When your lips touch, pause to savor the sensation. Both men and women can rush through this, and if they do, I think they are missing something very wonderful. You have to do it to know what I mean. You stay there, lips barely touching, maybe moving slightly this way and that.

If you rush in, mouth open, tongue wagging you miss all that and you probably gross her out. You are showing her that basically you don’t have a clue and you aren’t paying attention to her.

Softly, softly, and this isn’t just for her, this is for you, too. You could die and go to heaven at a moment like that and you would not regret it one bit.

Just let your lips nuzzle hers. You’ll feel her. Her desire will build. She’ll start wanting more and she’ll pull you closer, and then you know you can press harder, still just lips. Maybe you open your eyes andclose them. If you catch her looking you again look into her through her eyes. If she hides behind her eyes, you know something is wrong and that she doesn’t trust you.

There are many reasons why men and women don’t trust others that have nothing to do with the other person, so if she doesn’t trust you, don’t assume it is you. It could be many other things. But it does mean you guys need to step back and work to build trust again. Build safety. She may not have it in her, if her past is bad enough. But you should discuss these things, and then maybe kiss in a more planned way. It’s not nearly as romantic, but it is something. And you’re not forcing each other to something uncomfortable.

Your lips are pressed tightly to hers, and you, if you are present, and she, if she is present, will feeling mutually when it is time to open your lips a little. But still, no tongues. This allows you to slide your lips along each other, and to survey the opening to each others mouths in a more intimate way.

Then, maybe, if you both feel it, you might venture a shy tongue, to see if she responds, and if she does, you stay shy, touching gently, exploring very lightly, and you let the moment build in tension and desire and as that moment builds your tongues will be getting more involved.

But remember—play. You don’t have to do it all at once. You can start and stop and start again. Pull away and look at each other. Kiss lightly again.

It seems that a lot of women like having their head held. You can pull them to you or guide them, and if they are amenable to it, they love it. They love a man who confident about what he can do for her. Confident that he can give her what she wants and more—things she never even dreamed of before then. God. It is so intense.

Women, of course, are individuals, and they all have different preferences so nothing I say her is a prescription. If you’ve been paying attention, you will pick up that this is a dance. Dances are improvisations and you have to surf the wave of this kiss. Maybe she doesn’t like tongue at all. If you feel that, don’t do it. There are so many other things that could happen, so this is kind of a starting point, a way of gathering information so you can see what she likes. And she is also learning what you like. If you are sensitive to each other, and can understand the body’s way of communicating, then it can be an absolutely delightful feeling, One of the best parts of foreplay.

Ah, yes. Foreplay. Foreplay, I want to note, can go on for days and weeks. Be patient. A kiss doesn’t mean sex. It is just a way of starting to get to know her. You really don’t want to make love until you know her much better. Now much better can happen in a few hours, but usually it takes weeks. Months. Years for some.

Now I’m not quite sure whether this is what people thought I would provide. And really, I can’t claim that any other guy has this perspective. It is my perspective. It is different from @WasCy‘s perspective. Neither of us are right or wrong, just as it is not helpful to say your boyfriend was wrong to do some tonsil wrestling right away. With the right woman, it might have been a good thing to do. I doubt if there are many women who like that to start off with, but I’m sure there are some.

But the most important thing is that she is an individual, and it is the individual you want to know. You don’t want to treat women like they all come from the same cookie cutter. A lot of guys seem to think that there is a formula to seduction, and if you follow all the steps, she’ll end up sitting on top of your cock, moaning like a fog horn in a corvette. ok, perhaps not the most apt image, but…. I still like it

It doesn’t work that way. There is no formula. Well, maybe one, but it’s so generic that it hardly seems like a formula. It’s the same as for everything else in a relationship. Communicate, communicate, communicate. This needs to be done by both parties. Each needs to take equal responsibility for the relationship. Equal responsibility! Not equal activity.

Our bodies communicate more directly than our symbol-using minds do. The knowledge of the other is unmediated by symbols. It’s just lips to lips with no conscious thought. But the unconscious, nonlinguistic mind thinks much more effectively and perhaps more to the point, it communicates directly. If you pay attention to what she is saying this way…. well, only good things can happen. If not? You’ll get a girl asking questions about kissing on fluther—a girl who starts to doubt her own self, when she has nothing to do with the mess.

Exactly so.

Wow! And another bucket of cold water is needed. Thanks to both of you guys for describing the art of kissing so eloquently. Hope you are paying close attenion @chelle21689. These fellows know what they are talking about.

I liked how wundayatta mentioned that he needs to go slow for the girl, but not just for her…for himself too….so true!

i was actually watching youtube “Art of Kissing” and many girls say that they wished guys would go slower on the kiss…and it’s true! I mean, fast is good once you get the hang of their style and getting super into it but not for a sweet, first time thing.

@chelle21689 So do you think you and your fellow are going to give it another go?