General Question

BeccaBoo's avatar

How many children is too many?

Asked by BeccaBoo (2720points) June 1st, 2011

I have 4 boys and would love to have another in the next year or so, I feel that it would complete my family and also would be my second child with my partner (3 from a previous relationship). However recently my little brother told me it was about time i stopped having kids and concentrated on the ones i already have! Now I look after all my children, pay for them, provide them with a loving stable home and treat them all the same. I adore my children’s company and would love to have one more. I don’t see i am doing anything wrong, but if all my family feels this way, should i be concerned? Am I going too far by having a 5th?

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93 Answers

Bellatrix's avatar

If you can afford to look after them (and that means emotionally and time wise as well as financially), I think it is up to you how many children are too many for you. Unless we are going to get into a discussion regarding population control, I don’t think it has anything to do with your brother.

trickface's avatar

Would you consider yourself a single parent? We have a bad impression of your partner from the gaming addiction question you posted, or is he really much better than what you’ve told us. I think as long as you can afford and both parents are delighted by the idea and that it’s sensible, go for it!

You’re clearly a very loving mother, but what about the Dad?

BeccaBoo's avatar

@trickface I love my partner, and yes he is a real xbox addict,however after him seeing some of the post’s written on here and knowing that he will lose out in the long run if he does not agree to change (he is going to therapy with me next month) but in the mean time in the next year, and before i get too old and too tired, i’d love to have another with him. We already have a beautiful little boy and I do support all my kids, emotionally, financially and physically as much as any mother can. I find it a little shocking that anyone in my family feels this way, even after being around my kids (of whom I am very proud of).

TexasDude's avatar

One more than you can afford to take care of adequately.

BeccaBoo's avatar

@Fiddle_Playing_Creole_Bastard and you base that response on what?

TexasDude's avatar

@BeccaBoo you asked how many children is too many. My answer is that one more child than you can afford to take care of adequately. Does that not make sense to you?

trickface's avatar

@BeccaBoo it’s an uneasy question because you’ve really slated your partner on the other question and said he’s a poor father to your 15month old. I just can’t see the logic in having another child with a bad father. You have so much love for kids and it reads like you’re doing a great job bringing them up (certainly more than your share), but does your partner want another kid? or is his response ‘whatever makes you happy’.

I almost want to say it’s a selfish idea, putting your happiness before that of the 5th child or the 15month old with the (currently, pre-therapy) unfit father.

I was 13 when my mum had her third child and my 2nd little half-brother. I knew by that age it was a bad relationship and the father wasn’t as good a father as the child deserved, at least in that relationship. At that time I thought ‘Oh mum, really? A third child in this environment?’ Luckily, even though the relationship finally fell apart 3 years later, my little brother William turned out to be a bright spark and is a lovely little fella!

BeccaBoo's avatar

@Fiddle_Playing_Creole_Bastard depends on what you’d class as adequately?

Ajulutsikael's avatar

I don’t know if you should go with it. There is so much going on in the world right now that there is no guarantee that people will end up getting paid anymore. The debt is so bad pretty soon people aren’t going to get paid and then there will be chaos. At that point how will you support a new baby and the kids you have now? I’m not meaning to sound horrible, but I tell myself this every time I even think about having another child(which is odd considering I don’t ever want another child). Any stress you feel during your pregnancy will transfer onto the baby causing the baby to be a person that has high blood pressure throughout it’s life. Not to mention they will have a lot of issues with stress and how they deal with it.

I know it’s hard to hear it, but be there for your kids now. I think you are trying to remedy your relationship issues with another child. Been there, done that, bad idea. Due to the fact that I couldn’t support both of my kids and my daughter was so attached to daddy and was attending school in another state, I ended up splitting up my children and it’s so hard for me and I know it’s harder on her not having her brother around.

BeccaBoo's avatar

@trickface he has been wanting another child since i had the last one. And yes I slated his laziness, but not the fact he is loving and caring and (once I have killed the xbox) he is a great dad if you minus his flaw (I would have left otherwise)
I don’t think I am being selfsih I was one of 6.
My kids all have a stable environment and are all loved and well looked after. I have a child with autism (he is 10) we all cope and all happy? So one more? How is that selfish if we both want it and i am prepared to look after them all?

marinelife's avatar

Why is it your brother’s business how many kids you have? I came from a family of five kids. My life would be very bleak if my youngest sister was not in the world.

If you and your partner talked it over and want to have another child, why not?

TexasDude's avatar

@BeccaBoo can you feed them enough for them to physically develop within what is medically acceptable or expected for a child, and can you provide them with the kind of emotional and intellectual stimulation to let them grow without turning into a serial killer one day?

If yes to both, than sure, have more kids.

If no to one or both conditions, then don’t have more kids.

It’s your uterus, not your family’s. If you want a 5th child and you can meet the conditions I outlined above, then have one, opinions of your brother be damned.

BeccaBoo's avatar

@marinelife I do not know where it’s come from or why he said it. He is getting married next month and has been living with his fiancee with our parent’s. I can only put it down to long hours and stress before the wedding. Either that or he feels like i will rob his big day by announcing i am pregnant, which i wont be. My mother asked in passing if i was going to have one more child?

JilltheTooth's avatar

Your question is so slanted that it’s hard to respond any way but in the positive. That said, of course it’s your business and nobody else’s, I just personal feelings, these, and many will not agree with me feel that more would be too many considering the times. Just my opinion.

BeccaBoo's avatar

@Fiddle_Playing_Creole_Bastard Yes of course to both. I work hard, pay my bills, feed clothe and love my boys beyond belief, they are my life and I intend to keep it that way until they all feel they no longer need me to support them. Then I am going to go on a bloody long cruise!!

Raven_Rising's avatar

@BeccaBoo After reading your question and responses given, I would recommend waiting until after you and your partner see a therapist. Although it sounds like you are a devoted mother who is giving much of your time and effort to your children, its generally a bad idea to bring a new child into the mix if the relationship with your significant other is in trouble. After all, what if the two of you can’t work it out and have to part ways? I think you both should work with a therapist first, then see if a fifth child might be in your future.

TexasDude's avatar

@BeccaBoo that’s what I thought based on your original question. So go have another kid if it really makes you happy. I would also follow @Raven_Rising‘s advice first. Best of luck to you.

Bellatrix's avatar

With the additional contextual information provided here about your relationship and the problems your partner is facing, I think you would be wiser to wait until all those problems are resolved. Having another child is unlikely to help your situation at this time.

BeccaBoo's avatar

@Raven_Rising I will be dammed if we split over the xbox. His issues are from way back, i have had the assurance from him that he loves me, loves his security of our relationship, wants the marriage etc. But the pregnancy thing is not something i will be rushing into anytime soon, i am just thinking about it at the moment. I’d like to spend a little time watching my baby grow up first.

@Fiddle_Playing_Creole_Bastard Thank you x x x

Raven_Rising's avatar

@BeccaBoo Good to hear you’re not rushing into anything. I’ve seen relationships/marriages destroyed due to internet/gaming addiction so I’m glad to see you’re both going to therapy. Anyway, I wish you both the best!

pickleknuckle's avatar

Since you seem to have a rather defensive response for everyone who doesn’t applaud you on your choice, it will be interesting to see how this is taken. I prefer to be more diplomatic most of the time, but this is a hot-button topic for me.

The only reason you give for wanting yet another child is that you’d “love” to. Try thinking beyond your joy of being surrounded by little ones, and what the repercussions of pushing out kid after kid after kid is going to have on the rest of the planet. Do you enjoy rush hour traffic? If you’ve applied for a job anytime recently (although frankly, where would you find the time?), how is competing with a hundred or so other applicants working out for you? These, among other implications, are what your mad drive to reproduce for reproducing’s sake is foisting upon the rest of the world.

There are plenty of things I’d “love to do”, but I don’t. It’s called a conscience, also known as social responsibility. Please, suggest that I forgo that line of thinking, the way you seem to have done.

If you are that insane for kids, ADOPT. There are untold numbers of babies already on the planet. Why the insistence on adding to those numbers?

trickface's avatar

@BeccaBoo Have the fifth, you’re just too damn nice. What child could ever be unhappy with a mum like you? You sound like you couldn’t be more sure. No rush! You’ll handle it, and you don’t sound afraid to kick your partners ass if he doesn’t keep up with you! :)

It’s easy to be pessimistic and cautious online, I think people just need to know the child is going to get the very best before they support this idea… even if this is just a question board.

Best wishes x

@pickleknuckle Oh my god, a jaw-dropping answer from you. Shouldn’t people live their lives to the fullest? Do everything they love? The world is going to shit whatever we do, and that may sound defeatist, but not as defeatist as ‘have some social responsiblity and think about the effect your child could have on this planet’ Just wow.

BeccaBoo's avatar

@pickleknuckle If my only joy was for pushing out another kid, I would have had a lot more and not given two hoots about them, but this runs far deeper for me. I have a family and I would like to add to that. Rush hour traffic? Well what about the fact that all my kids especially my autistic son are incredibly bright and grow up to be great members of society doing good for the good of all of us. (by that I mean they become doctor’s, lawyers tech wizards) Who’d care about the traffic then (i will buy them all bikes and make them echo friendly).
My answer’s are not defensive I am just shocked by opinions on it that’s all!
Adoption is not an option for me, I was blessed in being able to carry a child and the beauty of that for me is seeing the result at the end. I am not a neglectful mother and like i said before i enjoy my kids, if I am prepared to look after the child and feed, clothe and love it, why should i not bring it into my family? I am not pushing out kids and palming them off for someone else to look after?
There are plenty of things i would love to do also, but for me my family comes first, non of them are suffering, so how is bringing a baby into this going to make the world any worse off if I am making it my responsibility and mine alone?

BeccaBoo's avatar

@trickface Many thanks. There is a long way to go yet and as @Raven_Rising said I am not rushing into anything just yet.

Again thank you for your kind words :-)

Blackberry's avatar

3, or so many you can’t properly care for them.

JilltheTooth's avatar

Your response to @pickleknuckle indicates that you really didn’t want us to answer honestly, just agreeably. I should have seen that that was your intent, and not answered. Sorry.

pickleknuckle's avatar

This is not about the quality of care of the children you do have, although it sounds like you do have that part down well.

This is about adding to the human population of the world. No, you are not just pushing out as many as you want (holy crap lady, you’re holding back?!), but your issue DO consume resources, yes? They will eventually move out and need housing of their own, yes? They in turn will have kids of their own, yes? That all takes space and resources. That is how you are making it worse off. But you are proving time and again that you refuse to see past the boundaries of your cozy little hearth, despite the fact that someday those little babies of yours will cross it and go out into the greater world.

Oh, and way to put pressure on the kids already here. They’re ALL going to be lawyers, doctors and tech wizards, huh? Does your ego know no bounds, lady??

BeccaBoo's avatar

@JilltheTooth No just putting across my argument and my feelings about this. I genuinely appreciate all comments even if i do not like ALL the answer’s. And to a degree I agree with @pickleknuckle there are far too many women out there pushing out kids and not looking after them properly. Too many broken homes etc.

josie's avatar

The number when I have to pay for them instead of you.

trickface's avatar

“Well what about the fact that all my kids especially my autistic son are incredibly bright and grow up to be great members of society doing good for the good of all of us. (by that I mean they become doctor’s, lawyers tech wizards) Who’d care about the traffic then (i will buy them all bikes and make them echo friendly).”

This was a scary comment, I have to say.

You can’t make them eco-friendly all their lives, and you can’t say they’re all going to become doctors, lawyers and tech wizard, (LOL). The most and best you can do however is try your hardest for them (check) and make them happy for 16–18 years of living with you (looking good if partner picks his game up!). Anything more is pressure!

BeccaBoo's avatar

@pickleknuckle Nope I have hugely high expectations for my kids!! But I can tell you one thing, if they become builders, then they contirbute, if they become dustmen then they contirbute. If they turn out to be lazy ass bums, then i will kick them into the next orbit! But they won’t.

My kids will grow up in South Africa, they will start working the family farm, they will not only learn to use their heads but also their hands. I can’t see how adding to the population in South Africa is going to damage the population? We all did it didn’t we? Were all still here!

@josie You don’t pay for my kids I DO and always will no matter what!

BeccaBoo's avatar

@trickface It was a hypothetical scenario….and was joking a little.

josie's avatar

@BeccaBoo In that case the answer is there is no limit other than limitations of physiology and biology.

pickleknuckle's avatar

/shakes head and sighs

They WILL do all these things, huh. That’s very loving and accepting of you. Suppose one of them dreams of becoming South Africa’s premier ballerina instead of working the family farm? Are you going to respect him for who he is, or WILL he damn well keep working the soil, along with all the other sibs?

For a loving mommy, I’m hearing an awful lot of absolutes in these posts… Not that that is unconditionally a bad thing, but boundaries are obviously a huge issue here.

BeccaBoo's avatar

@pickleknuckle My 7 yr old is incredibly camp, loves pink, Hannah Montana etc, he has always been like it. Does not bother me, he is who he is!

Boundaries are what kids learn from, it sets the marks for them to decide if they are gonna cross them and face the consequences or if they decide to respect them and use them.

My boys are no angels, just normal kids, and there is no pressure for them to do anything! Please don’t make this personal!

My 16 yr old son said to me a few months ago he wanted more money to do stuff with, my answer “go get a job and earn it, you’ll appreciate it more”. Every weekend he works down at the sea front dressed as a bunny and plays with the kids! He is now saving for a bike. My 10 yr old has huge self confidence issues because of the autism, he has a fantastic flare for art, so i had all his pictures put up and displayed at my work, he now wants to be an artist. Mt 7yr old wants to be a girl, failing that an actor so he does drama school at the weekends and in the holidays.
And my baby, well he is just too damn cute.
My kids are just fine and there are no issues with boundaries. They will be who they are and do what makes them happy!

pickleknuckle's avatar

That’s a different take from “they will all be doctors and work the family farm”... but if you are indeed listening to them as individuals, great. Glad to hear it.

However, my original sentiment to your original question remains the same. Just because you CAN make a baseball team’s worth or so of babies, doesn’t mean you HAVE to. Still waiting on an answer on that beyond a defensive “I love little ones”.

Well, I love driving fast. Should I do that whenever and wherever I please, and woe betide anyone or anything that gets in my way? Schoolyards would be a great place to spin donuts, with those wide-open spaces. I should be able to do that whenever I want. If some kindergartener can’t move his little ass in time, oh well—there are plenty more of ‘em in the world. Because I want to do donuts right here, right now. Because I CAN.

I love getting a good deal shopping. Who doesn’t, right? Well, if I see something in the store I WANT, I think I’ll slap aside anyone who gets in my way, including the elderly and anyone else smaller or weaker than me. And if someone’s already got what I WANT in her clutches, I’ll just body-check her and snatch it away. Because I CAN.

BeccaBoo's avatar

Ok you want an answer as to why I want another baby, here it is.

I had 3 children from a previous marriage. I met my partner (who had none) and when we got together he made no bones about the fact he wanted to start a family with me. After taking on my 3 other kids (with no experience and being thrown in at the deep end with quite a mix of different needs) he has succeeded in showing that he is a loving caring father, not just to our child but to my other children also (that’s a difficult thing for anyone to do).
WE would like another child together to give our baby his own brother/sister and to complete our family.

I am sure there are flaw’s and holes in this left right and centre for you to pick at. But that is the truth.

While deciding on it, I wasn’t thinking how I would be over populating the world with my kids or harming society. I was simply wanting to complete my beautiful family.
And I know that I don’t HAVE to but i would like to!

Bellatrix's avatar

So why are you asking us if your decision is right? Seems like you have already made up your mind?

BeccaBoo's avatar

@Bellatrix I never said it was right, I wanted to know if it’s going too far? And yes I had already made up my mind, but it’s nice to have the argument from both sides. Is that not what Fluther is all about? Ask!

bkcunningham's avatar

I think everyone may have helped her see the answer for herself. Yes, @BeccaBoo, that is what Fluther is supposed to be about. I am from a family of eight children. My mom was a stay at home mother who occasionally helped my dad at his grocery store. She always said each and every one of us was planned and wanted. If you want another baby and you have the means to support the baby, go for it and enjoy your pregnancy. I pray you have a healthy one and your family has many blessings. Families use to be much larger and operated on much less money. Money isn’t the most important thing in the world.

BeccaBoo's avatar

@bkcunningham What a calm and truthful response. A fact my mother keeps on reminding me. Families were bigger and nobody ever had spare cash but as a child growing up in a bigger family, we always had toys, clothes, food, holidays and life was never boring. I am quite wealthy compared to how my parents bought us up, and feel blessed. Thank you.

Neizvestnaya's avatar

Too many children is when you can’t provide general food, shelter or clothing for them and also when you can’t give all of them an amount of attention to not feel neglected. Too many is when you use public assistance as an income instead of as temporary assistance.

Ajulutsikael's avatar

Not to come off as a b word, but how old are you? If you are over 30 and are going to continue to have children there is more risk of disabilities. There is actually a greater risk of disabilities having a child over 30 than if you had one with a first cousin. In this aspect you are being selfish risking that with your child.

bkcunningham's avatar

@Ajulutsikael, it is high risk for a woman over 35 regardless. But if it is a first pregnancy for a woman over 35, it is riskier. Over 35 because of fertility; fewer and possible less viable eggs and hormonal changes. It is very common for women over 30 to have healthy pregnancies.

Neizvestnaya's avatar

@Ajulutsikael: I have to disagree based on generations of family women who often had babies into their 40’s and early 50’s and also cousin marriages being common. That I know of, we’ve no retards or birth defects aside from childhood stuttering.

Ajulutsikael's avatar

@Neizvestnaya I said they are at a higher risk, not that it will happen every time. Besides, the disabilities aren’t always huge either. Some are as small as simple learning disabilities that can be easily overcome. Besides at an older age the eggs aren’t as viable.

With inbreeding, kids aren’t born mentally disabled because of it, it’s more of a lack of genetic differences and more of a chance at hereditary diseases popping up more often. Again it’s less common in that situation to have kids with problems than a woman over age.

kitkat25's avatar

I think that as long as you can support your kids it is okay to have as many as you want. You shouldn’t let your femily decide for you when you have had enough. Both my parents came from large families. My dad was one of 18. He grew up on a completely self supporting farm and the family never recieved any public assistance of any kind. Mom was one of 9 and her dad worked hard to support the family himself. If you have enough love and finances for another child then I say follow your heart and tell your family it is your choice as to the number of children you have and not theirs.

Neizvestnaya's avatar

@Ajulutsikael: So why are you concerned for a so far healthy fertile woman in her 30’s?

YARNLADY's avatar

There are several ways of deciding how many children is too many.
l. Can you afford to feed, clothe and otherwise care for them
2. Do both partners have a stable home environment to provide for them
3. Do both partners agree on the number
4. Are the parents proponents of ZPG or other population/environment concerns.

ninjacolin's avatar

It may be true that no amount of kids is ecologically intelligent to have at present. Adoption’s a good option. Consider one comedian’s review of the situation: Abortion is green. It’s comedy of course (and may be offensive to some viewers, duh) but as they say every good joke is based somewhat in truth.

As for me, I’m not opposed to the idea of having kids for having kids sake. But I do find my opinion swaying the more I think about the impact it has on the planet as whole.

Ajulutsikael's avatar

@Neizvestnaya Because she mentioned already that one of her kids has autism. This is also just general cautionary advice.

ninjacolin's avatar

If you ignore the negative impact of having more people in our over populated world, then I don’t see how there could ever be “too many” unless a child is being neglected. It does seem like a fun thing to do.

cazzie's avatar

I’m the last child of 9, so my answer has to be 10.

meiosis's avatar

Given the disastrous effects that over-population is having and will continue to have, two is more than enough.

BeccaBoo's avatar

@Ajulutsikael Yes my son does have Autism and i had him when i was 24, so go figure! It is very common now for older women to wait and start a family over the age of 40. My best friend had her first daughter at 41, she now has 2 more and is nearly 48. The girls are in a far more healthy stable family environment and Rosie (my friend) has worked hard to provide and financially stable home for her and the girls (she has a husband too lol). A lot of women in this present day would rather have a career first and wait to have a child! Its becoming very common.

Read this it backs up what i say http://www.babycentre.co.uk/pregnancy/antenatalhealth/ageandpregnancy/

As for me being older, I am only 36 and I have been lucky enough to have 4 healthy pregnancies before, and I already have a child who is autistic. If anything were to happen in a future pregnancy, they monitor you so closely now and offer things like 3d scans etc, they would pick it up pretty fast. Then the decision would be mine if i continue it. However that’s a whole other question.

And who decided the worl was over populated? Where in the UK, the USA or maybe Asia?
Well who decides that the world has too many people?

What about Russia, there are more women who far out number the men http://russianwomenblog.hotrussianbrides.com/post/Census-Russiae28099s-Population-Shrinking-Russian-Women-Outnumber-Men-by-Millions.aspx

trickface's avatar

@BeccaBoo hate to tell you but the world is overpopulated and that’s why we’re in for a tough 21st century. Though I don’t think this is a reason not to have children in your environment.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b7/Population_curve.svg

Population growth worldwide has gotten to a point where we can’t sustain our level of fresh water and resources are running low. Food prices are rising, fossil fuels running out and global warming won’t help either. The earth has 6.9 billion people and we’re projected be at 10.1 billion before the end of the century. It sounds insane but it’s true and driving natural resources into the ground at a rate which technology and ecological investment cannot keep up with.

I suppose this is the reason many of the above answers think four children is enough for you.

mattbrowne's avatar

Anything above the so-called replacement fertility rate.

AshLeigh's avatar

I am the youngest of five children. I don’t think it’s too many.
I was talking with these women once, and one of them started yelling the other because she “had too many children.”
I became furious. What right did she have to tell her how to run her life? And if she got pregnant, maybe it was an accident. But she’s not going to abort it.
“You are a terrible person. You shouldn’t have so many kids.” She said.
I got really mad at that one, and just looked her right in the face and said “Which one shouldn’t have been born?” She shut up after that…

BeccaBoo's avatar

@AshLeigh Way to go you!!! I have had a row similar to that today with a colleague at work, she felt although my children were lovely and I was lucky to have them, that I should now stop and enjoy what god blessed me with, and I replied to her “and what if he has not finished blessing me?” she too had no answer!

YARNLADY's avatar

What about the OctoMom with 14, and mostly dependent on public service (taxpayers)

ninjacolin's avatar

They were only trying to help, @AshLeigh and @BeccaBoo.

I hesitated to post this just now for the very same reason that they “shut up.” I thought better of it though; There’s a point that needs to be made: If you took a poll of personal opinions you might be surprised to find just how many people have the opinion that you have too many kids. The reason they don’t tell you is because they want to be polite. They don’t want to have to tell you that you should have aborted at least the last 2! lol

They don’t even really care to be telling you specifically how to run your life. They just want to have the conversation in general. When you go no the defensive like that, you shut down the openness of the original conversation which was suppose to be: “how many kids should one have.” They don’t shut up because they’re wrong. They shut up because they recognize that you don’t want to hear their honest and in-depth opinion.

I hope you can see what I mean. People don’t want to offend you but they do want to have the conversation. If they feel you’re being threatened by the dialog they’ll shy away from it.

Neizvestnaya's avatar

@ninjacolin: I am one person who has no problem being received as offensive to share my two cents about not wanting my tax money being spent on women who want to have babies and let others pay for them instead of having abortions or using birth control. Let the right to life people pay these women’s bills.

AshLeigh's avatar

@ninjacolin,
How does saying “You’re a terrible person” and “You’re a bad mother” help? It’s just rude…

ninjacolin's avatar

What if you didn’t know you were a terrible mother? It would be helpful to know!
Okay, I’m just joking about that.

Of course, rude is rude. And that’s rude. I was responding to the shutting down of a non-abusive conversation more so than to specifically dealing with rudeness. I guess @BeccaBoo‘s described instance was more what I had in mind.

“You’re a terrible person” is totally stupid and uncalled for.

bkcunningham's avatar

What is a nonabusive conversation?

ninjacolin's avatar

uh.. one where the participants aren’t trying to offend one another.

bkcunningham's avatar

So why would you want to shut it down? Sorry, I may be confused.

ninjacolin's avatar

Yes, I think I see where you may be confused, @bkcunningham.
Paraphrased, what I was saying is: If you are a parent of many children you should expect to often be the catalyst for questions and conversations about “how many children are too many.” Whether directly to your face or perhaps after you’ve left. People are interested in the topic but they rarely get a chance to have a chat about it. They aren’t trying to be rude by addressing the topic. They’re just curious; There is no need to get defensive about it and shut the conversation down… unless the topic makes you uncomfortable, in which case.. you’ve painted yourself into a corner I think. haha.

BeccaBoo's avatar

@ninjacolin Oooooo you have had quite some words to say about me in my absence haven’t you!!
Firstly I WILL get defensive as this is a personal discussion about my children, so it’s only natural that I WILL defend them.
Secondly Damn right I WILL talk about this topic, but its not like I have done anything wrong and I am being smeared for it.
3. I AM NOT A BAD MOTHER!!!
4. I work full-time and don’t have hand outs from the government!! I pay for my house, car and lifestyle. My kids are well fed and clothed!!! (so whats your argument again?)
Because all I am getting is a lot of people moaning about my children destroying the population of the planet….........well lets hope my next is born dead huh!!

So my apologies for my very deep and angry defensive attitude but when i get small minded people telling me I’m a bad mother and i will destroy the planet by having more I have to laugh….but hey its just a topic of conversation right? Mwhahahahahahaha.

BeccaBoo's avatar

Reproductive rights are legal rights and freedoms relating to reproduction and reproductive health.[1] The World Health Organization defines reproductive rights as follows:

Reproductive rights rest on the recognition of the basic right of all couples and individuals to decide freely and responsibly the number, spacing and timing of their children and to have the information and means to do so, and the right to attain the highest standard of sexual and reproductive health. They also include the right of all to make decisions concerning reproduction free of discrimination, coercion and violence.[2]

Reproductive rights rest on the recognition of the basic right of all couples and individuals to decide freely and responsibly the number, spacing and timing of their children and to have the information and means to do so, and the right to attain the highest standard of sexual and reproductive health. They also include the right of all to make decisions concerning reproduction free of discrimination, coercion and violence.[2]

“reproductive rights embrace certain human rights that are already recognized in national laws, international human rights documents and other relevant United Nations consensus documents. These rights rest on the recognition of the basic right of all couples and individuals to decide freely and responsibly the number, spacing and timing of their children and to have the information and means to do so, and the right to attain the highest standard of sexual and reproductive health. It also includes the right of all to make decisions concerning reproduction free of discrimination, coercion and violence as expressed in human rights documents. In the exercise of this right, they should take into account the needs of their living and future children and their responsibilities towards the community.”

bkcunningham's avatar

As someone on this forum once said to me @BeccaBoo, “Let me break it down for you.” I think that is what you just did. Good post. I think you just answered your own question though, without any doubt.

Neizvestnaya's avatar

@BeccaBoo: If you ask such a question, do you want some of us to lie about our personal opinons? We all could cut and paste what you just did but it didn’t seem like that’s what you were asking for.

jerv's avatar

@BeccaBoo ”...it’s nice to have the argument from both sides. Is that not what Fluther is all about?”

You ask for honest opinions, and you got them, so what is your problem?

Raven_Rising's avatar

@BeccaBoo You asked the question “How many children is too many?” which suggests you want people on this site to voice their opinion, regardless of what their answers might be. Now some people are going to be supportive of your decision to have another child. Some people will be supportive with some caveats (i.e. not being on public assistance, making sure current children are being supported, etc.). And some people will disagree with you completely (i.e. overpopulation, adoption as a better alternative, etc).

However, these answers aren’t reflecting on you as a parent or as a person. They are simply answering your question honestly.

BeccaBoo's avatar

Who said i had a problem? There is a lot of assumption going on here?
Your arguments may be against, and mine is for? Am I not allowed to voice that? So you can all have your say and I shut up and just accept it?

Its very hard to put across tone and feeling into text, and I am not writer, but all I am doing is putting my argument across.

I will get a little more defensive when people attack me personally as a mother, thats all!

bkcunningham's avatar

Like she said before, she wants opinions guys. Not judgements. There is a difference. Play nice.

jerv's avatar

@bkcunningham The difference between opinion and judgment often depends on how sensitive the reader is. As @BeccaBoo says, tone and feeling do not come across in flat-text, so it’s hard to tell snarkiness from tough love. The people who sound the meanest may actually be the most well-meaning and just lack eloquence or tact. (I am actually nicer than I often sound; just ask my wife.) Conversely, the ones who sound the most diplomatic may actually be lying or finding a subtle way to insult.

bkcunningham's avatar

I realize that @jerv. It is nice to be reminded. But it just reminds me that I don’t want to hurt someone’s feelings over something like a question on Fluther. I think sometimes we all forget there are real people behind the questions. And even if it a judgement and that is cool, (I get that) it just felt like it was being pushed a little too much. I think the point was taken and received…more than once ;) Not a big deal, but you can get more bees with honey.

Raven_Rising's avatar

@BeccaBoo This is a long thread so I might have missed something. I’m afraid I didn’t see any personal attacks about your mothering skills. And you should feel free to address a post if you feel like it crosses the line. I’m just suggesting that you don’t take any disagreements in opinion too personally. Only you truly know your situation in the real world and what path is the right one for you to take.
And I would agree with @jerv and you that putting tone and feeling in text can be quite challenging (which is why it takes me forever to post something).
BTW- @jerv can be a handful online. He’s not nearly as snarky as he sounds in real life :)

BeccaBoo's avatar

I find some of his threds although harsh, very amusing!

Raven_Rising's avatar

Yeah, he’s pretty amusing, although not as clever as he might think :)

jerv's avatar

But I’m cute!

BeccaBoo's avatar

Ha ha all that time and that’s all you’ve got!!! Shame on you!! ;-)

Raven_Rising's avatar

LOL! I’m dying Just fell off my stability ball upon reading @BeccaBoo‘s response

jerv's avatar

If you’re cute enough, you don’t need to be clever. Just ask Snooki or Paris Hilton!

Raven_Rising's avatar

Very nice, dear (although Snooki and Paris Hilton? Really?) And yes, you’re adorable

BeccaBoo's avatar

@jerv Sorry…...but you gotta do better than paris! Yuk!!

jerv's avatar

Kate Beckinsale is more my style, but she isn’t a vapid twit like those two.

ninjacolin's avatar

@BeccaBoo I gave you a great answer for your rant above after my comment. You’re a feisty mammy, huh? haha. I appreciate your character. :)

Also, as for your human rights rant.. I agree completely. Especially this part:
In the exercise of this right, they should take into account the needs of their living and future children and their responsibilities towards the community.

You have the right to make a decision but also the responsibility to make that decision.. responsibly. And those who think fewer kids is better than more tend to have that opinion based sometimes out of concern for child-neglect/bad parenting (which you don’t seem to have a problem with) but also out of concern for the environment. (There may be other reasons, but these are the two big ones I think you’ve been hearing about in this discussion)

I hope you can see that many people who oppose the idea of many kids do so with the community’s best interests at heart and not necessarily out of concern for their own personal well fare. Many of these people are hardworking self-supporters who will never be drastically affected by tax hikes or what have you. It’s just general concern for the environment and the community.

Speaking specifically of those who are concerned about environmental impact.. comments like this: “all I am getting is a lot of people moaning about my children destroying the population of the planet” display a level of irreverence for environmental issues and imply ignorance towards the environmental stresses new bodies put on the planet as whole. It’s a valid concern that your human rights perfectly permit you to neglect; It’s not like there’s an environmental awareness test you have to pass to have kids. The only hope we have of getting citizens of the planet to act intelligently where concerns the betterment of the environment is through the spreading of information about the issues. Population is a huge environmental issue that FEW people are talking about and even fewer are consciously acting on. It’s an important message to spread, think about deeply, and base your decisions on.

It’s similar to all the advertising youths are bombarded with about being “undrunk” and about using moderation in drinking. They have the right to drink their faces off. But it’s a good idea not to for many reasons. Advertising against being a drunkard help people make better decisions within their rights.

Pandora's avatar

I think you are asking the wrong people. Who you need to ask is your brother. He obviously has a personal view on the subject. Now, is he thinking you should concentrate on the children you have because he feels the 4 you have aren’t getting proper attention, or is it he feels you are already stretching yourself as far as you can go, physically or mentally, or is it simply that he thinks no one can handle 5 kids, or does he think your headed for financial ruin?
None of us are there so we don’t really know if you are fooling yourself or if you are really are able to handle one more in your curent situation.
My dad came from a family of 11 kids, my mom from 7 and I came from a family of 5. My mom was able to do it all and handle everything but it comes at an extreme cost. She was so very busy for 30 years. By the time she was finally able to enjoy life, because we were all finally grown and leaving the nest, my father passed away. If my father didn’t have to work so hard to provide for his family, he may have taken the day off that he had his molar pulled and would’ve never hemorrhaged and gotten the blood with hepatitis. Of course that would’ve meant that I would never have been born.
I would do tthree things. Ask people who truly know me what they thought and why.
And the second thing I would do is look at my life without any rose color glasses and get all the voices out of my head that say I need to get a kid now. Then really think of all the pros and cons of having a child at this stage of my life and look to the real reason I want a child.
The third thing I would ask myself is, am I looking for another child because I need someone else to need me? Am I using children as a way to feel fullfilled because I feel estranged from my spouse?
Maybe your brother feels you should work on your marriage before adding some more hormones and another kid to the mix.
Marriage and children are like a home. If you don’t lay the foundation right, it will all come crumbling down. Your marriage is the foundation. Don’t add a second story till you know the foundation is completely solid.
True he agree to counseling and that is great. But its not a guarantee it will work out.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

If you can afford them, and not have them living in squalor, ot stuffed in bedrooms like sardines, too much is maybe 13 or more?

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