Do fathers have rights to say whether they want a child or not when the mother wants an abortion?

I feel like we definitely talked this over before but I can’t find where. I fundamentally believe that each person responsible for a child should have a say BUT the person who is to carry that child inside themselves and birth it when they do not want to…gets MORE of a say. That’s just logistical. Emotionally, I feel for every father whose partner aborts without talking it out with them (unless they feel violence is a threat, then they’re justified in doing so). Ideally, it should be possible for a father to pay the bio mom expenses of prenatal and postnatal periods and raise the child on his own if he truly wants the child and the mother’s role will end once the baby is born.

If he can find a way to bring it to term without the mother, go forth. But so long as childbirth requires the mother to give up real estate in her body she’s got the final say.

You can’t demand someone else to take a pregnancy to term any more than you can demand them donate a kidney. It’s their body and they make the decision.

I agree with @Simone_De_Beauvoir. I think the father’s should have more say. But the truth is that too many unplanned pregnancies end up with the father taking off. That’s high risk.

In a supportive way, yes. But the decision must be the mother’ s as it is her body. Even if you disagree with it, you must assist her.

Nope. None. Nada. Ziltch.

But I love @Simone’s ideal solution (pipe dream though it may be).

Here’s what I don’t understand about the idea that the man should have some say, but the mother would have more say or a veto or whatever: It seems like it’s sorta meaningless pandering to the man. Like saying “If you agree with me, then you get a say. But if you don’t, then SOL”. To me, it seems more honest to simply say to the man “Look, it’s my decision, and you can hop on board or you can leave, and it’s your choice which path you take, but this part is my choice”.

1. No
2. Yes
3. Because that’s the way it is. Even if they were married it’s the woman’s decision.

@MyNewtBoobs I was thinking of it in terms of policy and legal court battles. I think the bio-father should have more rights, in general and I’d be the last to pander to any man.

Well maybe if he offers to rent the space in her womb for the time while the child is coming to term and willing to raise it. Because how many men up and abandon the women once they get pregnant. They are no where to be found. OOOOOOOPS my mistake and the woman is raising the child. I always commend the single dads out there that are raising their children, it takes a rare man that does that I am very sorry to say that.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir You might be thinking of my question about men being able to opt out of being a dad. I thought it was a great thread. But it was more related to financial responsibility in a way. Or, maybe you were thinking of the recent hypothetical question about a military guy being pissed at his wife for aborting? And, the marriage being on the rocks.

@squirbel The man gets no say. The woman gets to do whatever she wants since she is carrying it. I think you might be interested in the link I gave above, it is related, but not exactly your question.

Your question threw me a little, because you wrote a child resulted. That to me means the baby is born already. I would have written a pregnancy resulted. I only bring it up, not to correct you, but to point out the difference and what people might assume when you use that wording if you had not clarified.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir See, I’m not sure I agree. Because for me, not only do I not want children, but I’m really against carrying on my genetic line, so carrying the baby to term and then giving up my rights as a mother also isn’t an option. I’m not… I think it is pandering, but I also feel like there’s a chance that’s because no one has come along and given any reason at all why it wouldn’t be, so I’d really love to hear why you think it isn’t.

Nope. No say at all. Should the man have a say? Maybe. Will they ever? Probably not. The woman is the one carrying the child in her womb. Until a man can develop a uterus in which he can house a baby himself, I’m guessing it’ll always be up to the woman on what happens to her pregnancy.

To avoid situations like this, couples who are having unprotected sex, or any sex at all, should really discuss the what if’s. That way, in the event that a pregnancy were to happen, neither person would be unprepared for the outcome.

@MyNewtBoobs It isn’t because I don’t feel that I’m pandering. I’ve got no other proof than that. I might sound like a crazy conservative here but if you don’t want to continue your genetic line, you must be very clear with anyone you sleep with (if you sleep with sperm carriers, that is) that whatever pregnancy will come…it will be aborted and then your partner would have to be okay with it.

Even when couples pay a surrogate to carry their baby, if the woman decides to abort she can. No matter what, the individual carrying the baby gets to decide.

@JLeslie Good point!

@Simone_De_Beauvoir I can see the argument for that. But I also think that the obligation to discuss what happens should an accidental pregnancy happens is pretty much always on the woman – I’ve never, ever, ever met a man who said “I don’t want to have sex with you until we’ve had a chance to discuss our personal plans for an unplanned pregnancy”. To me, if you jump in the sack with me before finding that out, you’re kinda saying you’re not so focused on having it be a joint decision as to delay an orgasm. I don’t think it’s entirely their job to bring it up, I just don’t think it’s more my job than their to bring it up.

@MyNewtBoobs I completely disagree. The man is the one with zero control of the situation. If he had a brain in his head, he would find these things out before sex. When she gets pregnant she has all sorts of choices, he has none.

When it comes to sex men usually think with the little head not the one on the shoulders

The US Supreme Court stopped ruled against spousal consent in 1976 with Planned Parenthood of Central Missouri v. Danforth

The forced birth movement brings this up again and again, it’s one of the reasons they are fighting to undermine Planned Parenthood today.

@JLeslie Which part are you disagreeing with?

@MyNewtBoobs The part that the obligation to discuss such things is on the woman.

@JLeslie I’m still confused, so let me clarify my point: I think that currently, the obligation as determined by society is on the woman – I don’t think it should remain that way. Still disagreeing? I’m also all for this idea of the dad opting out legally, and if I were to tell a guy that I was getting an abortion, I think I’d mention that as an option for him.

My husband and I were just a young couple in our 20s when I found out I was pregnant. We had only been dating for 5 months.

My immediate thought was abortion. Why not? I wasn’t ready for a child, and everyone I knew (including my siblings) had an abortion when they were young because it wasn’t “the right time”.

My husband (boyfriend at the time) thought differently. He wanted the child and was ready to take responsibility for his actions. He also loved me.

I’m so happy I believed in him and considered his rights to his child. I never had that abortion. We now have a son who is high honors at his university. I don’t even want to image the thought of not having this bright and caring young man in my life.

I’m sorry, but abortion is the easy way out imo. If the father of the child is ready and willing to take full responsibility, he should be allowed the opportunity. If a woman is ready and willing to open her legs for a penis, she should be ready and willing to deliver a baby.

@JLeslie: I used that wording because I believe a child is a child from conception. Rather than be politically correct, I believe in stating things as I believe them.

Quite frankly, I disagree with most who answered so far.

It takes two to tango, and a child is the responsibility of two. Whether or not the child is “renting space” or “being a parasite on only one of the two”, that’s biology. That’s the way it works – and the woman is inconvenienced only a little.

1. I believe the father has just as much say as the mother. Fathers go through the pain of a lost child as some abortive mothers do.
2. I believe the mother should take the father’s sincerity to heart, and if he isn’t the sincere type, she should proceed with the abortion.
3. I believe my view is valid because it is logical and not emotional – it takes two to create something, why should one wield all the power? Not fair in my opinion.

Society is too far gone down the road of pursuit of pleasure and doing what the individual wants when it thinks of situations in these terms [parasite, renting, etc]. It is no longer focused on society as a whole – doing what is good for others.

It’s all about “me, me, me – what’s in it for me?”

Discuss.

@jonsblond But, didn’t you go along with not aborting, because you decided it was the right choice for you. That you wanted to have the baby and build a life with your husband? You didn’t have your son only because your husband wanted you to in the end I would guess.

@MyNewtBoobs Good you clarified, I had misunderstood. However, I am not sure I think society puts it on the woman to discuss what she would do if she got pregnant. I think society tends to put the responsibility of not getting pregnant on the woman.

@squirbel All I am saying is if you had not clarified you might be misunderstood by others. I am not talking about being PC, I am simply talking communication.

@JLeslie My husband was 75% of the reason why I had our first child. Maybe more. I was not ready for a child, and from previous experience of being fucked over by men, I didn’t expect his reaction of wanting this child.

@squirbel The iron is not drained from the fathers body, his kidneys are not taxed, his bladder is not squished, he is not likely to become incontinent after the birth. Carrying a baby brings with it health risks. It is not like renting a room at the Holiday Inn.

@JLeslie I think society does put it on the woman to not get pregnant in the first place; I also think that when we’re trying to say it’s on both partners to not get pregnant, it’s still on the woman to bring up that conversation and to state her stance.

@jonsblond :). I think you both are great. You obviously trusted and loved him.

@MyNewtBoobs I don’t think so, I think in that department the responsibility is equal. I guess when the woman brings up birth control, it is obvious she does not want to get pregnant, it is also reasonable to talk about what if the birth control fails at that point. Of course sometimes these conversations don’t take place, even when it is too generally responsible people. And, someone who uses birth control might also not be willing to abort. All sorts of scenerios.

@MyNewtBoobs – Your response is my position exactly. If a man is opposed to abortion, then he should discuss it before he takes off his pants. If he doesn’t, it is the woman’s decision.

@jonsblond – You and your husband did what was right for you both and I admire and respect you for that.

@rooeytoo It can go the other way. The guy can want the abortion and the woman won’t do it. They can even talk about, she might think she would always abort, and then she gets pregnant and decides to keep it. I agree with @Simone_De_Beauvoir that I do have empathy for their position in the matter. If I had a son I would drill into him that he might not have any say if he gets someone pregnant.

They should, most definitely. The baby is very much his, as it is hers. People who say that the woman has more of a say in the matter because she has to endure carrying it must realize that God made it such——it is a part of the laws of nature, just like it is the law of nature that a man had something to do with the creation of this new life. It is wrong to deny a man this right and punish him just because a woman has to go through what God and nature intended.

Ultimately, not only does the woman have the final say, ideally the man should support her in that decision. This is part of the nature of being a man – we get lots of advantages in many areas of society, but when it comes to the most important aspect of our lives, our genetic imperative, we play second fiddle. @MyNewtBoobs and @rooeytoo are totally correct – if you have unprotected sex with a woman you must accept whatever consequences that may come your way.

@MRSHINYSHOES Maybe the god in question should have given more consideration to creating an unwanted foetus in the first place.

@meiosis Don’t blame God for human irresponsibility on the part of the woman and the man my friend. It is not God’s fault for the conception of the child, but the stupidity of the woman and her lover.

That’s all I have to say.

So long folks. ;)

@meiosis And if it’s protected sex and still results in a pregnancy?

@MRSHINYSHOES I feel like men get pretty much every advantage except for this one, so I have a hard time feeling like this should be where we try to really even out the playing field. Make it so that women are earning every penny on the dollar that men are and then we’ll talk. Until then, women have the womb, and men have pretty much everything else.

@MyNewtBoobs True, the women have the womb, but a lot of them nowadays don’t know how to use it responsibly and smartly! That’s too bad, and the real ones who end up suffering are not the so-called “adults” in the “playing field” as you call it, but the poor and innocent unborn children, and the unwanted who are born and have to put up with their immature parents’ crap.

Anyhow, I’ve made my point, as true as it is, and I feel that this thread has gone on too long, and I will not be re-visiting this. To do so would be to re-hash what I’ve already said.

Good day. ;)

@squirbel How is it that the woman is inconvenienced only a little? How can you possibly believe that? Maybe if you could explain what you meant?

Fact from fiction, truth from diction. IF we were going to be fair and equal about this one place you won’t find a feminist with in miles off if she don’t want to be a mother and want to deny him the chance of being a father she pays him for being forced to forfeit that right. If she gets all the say because she owns the real estate, then logically if he don’t care to be a father but she wants to buy the house anyhow she pays the mortgage, and he gets to walk Scot free; if we were going to be completely fair about it,…… that was such a joke I nearly peed myself a little.

@MyNewtBoobs Good point. I’ll refine my thoughts to: “If a man has sex with a woman, then he has to accept whatever consequences may arise”. Of course those consequences are much, much higher if no contraception/protection is used.

I am of the opinion that men should have no say. None. Woman’s body. That’s it.

Like @PluckyDog , I take issue with the statement ”...the woman is inconvenienced only a little.”. Have you carried a child to term, @squirbel ? If you have, and you feel that way, congratulations on your very easy pregnancy. Mine was not like that.

@MyNewtBoobs It isn’t any more of your consideration, I agree there. I also haven’t met all that many women who have this conversation prior to sex either.

Of course it’s her decision and essentially, it doesn’t matter what the guy thinks anyway because of this rule. Although I do have one question about a scenario (and this is the only scenario where this question would arise). What about a woman that literally steals a man’s sperm to get pregnant? This is graphic, but on rare occasions, a woman has actually taken the condom out of the trash, and taken the sperm out and put it inside herself. Some use turkey basters, some poke holes in condoms etc.

I mean I’m not saying if this is proven, we should hold her down and shove a Plan B down her throat, but you have to admit, that’s really messed up lol.

@MRSHINYSHOES – if there is a merciful god he would not punish or banish the aborted fetus, it would simply go back into the que and hopefully next time around, make it into the world with 2 parents who want it.

Why and how would a merciful god punish the unborn child?

@Blackberry – I understand your hypothetical, and it causes me to pause. I can come up with some crazy scenarios, but I think I would be missing the point. If you choose to stick it in someone, you roll the dice. Nobody forces men to have sex with women (damn, why is this not the case?). Once you do, however, I think you need to deal with the consequences, which may be a baby and future child care, or an abortion.

If human babies were conceived in some kind of external sack, we could avoid the fact that it’s the woman’s body. Then I believe the man would have some say (50/50).

@tom_g I guess you’re right. Too bad we don’t have that sack lol.

If some dude is so desperate for a child that he wants to force a girl to give birth against her will, maybe he should consider adopting one of the many children that already exist that need a good home.

If it’s an unwanted pregnancy I tend to say no. It’s up to the woman. If both wanted a child and the pregnancy was planned, then I say a definite yes. The prospective father should be heard.

I think, ultimately, the ball is in the mothers court seeing as she will have to carry the baby for 9 months, that’s quite a strain on the body which she shouldn’t be expected to endure unless she is willing to do so.

However, I think the father should feel that he can at least talk to the woman about his wishes so that they can discuss all of the options together before the final decision is made. This may not change the woman’s decision to abort in the long run but together they may be able to come up with something that suits them both (ie: she goes through with the pregnancy but he has full care of the baby when it is born). I don’t know how realistic this opinion of mine is but I hate the idea of men being told they just have to accept a woman’s decision without being able to, at least, express his desires.

How about this. When the fathers start sticking the fuck around and paying for shit you can have some right.

@tom_g Actually, it’s pretty easy to rape a man if you know how. For example, fear can trigger an erection. And Viagra’s been pretty good to the man-raping demographic, unfortunately, just like ecstasy has been for some time. There are also some ones I know you can do that I won’t post on this thread, but the point is, you definitely can force a man to impregnate you. Hell, if you know how, you can force a corpse to impregnate you.
@Blackberry I think, in your scenario, I might be ok with a court order for the woman to abort. Course, this goes against everything I believe about courts staying the hell out of uteri, but I’d definitely be willing to entertain some serious debate before handing out a “no way in hell” – especially if it’s not just that the woman took the condom from the trash, but flat-out raped the man and he had no say in the sex at all.

@MyNewtBoobs – point taken (I guess). I suppose this is really changing the context of the question. Should it be, “Do men who have been raped have rights to say whether they want a child or not when the mother wants an abortion?”. Is this what we’re even talking about, or are we asking if the male in a consensual sexual relationship should have any rights over a woman’s right to bring the child to term or not?

@tom_g I don’t know, that’s the OPs decision, although I think the question might be better leaving off the part “if the mother wants an abortion”, because it covers more ground.

@tom_g: I am not changing my question. It remains as I posed it.

@nikipedia: Sounds like a hell of an idea.

@squirbel – Wow. I guess I should label my sarcasm by wrapping <sarcasm> tags around it. My point in that last answer above was that we were getting way off topic. You asked a legitimate question. Then I started hearing about men getting “raped” and secret ways women can steal your semen. It was absurd.

Your question is this: “Do fathers have rights to say whether they want a child or not when the mother wants an abortion?”

My answer: Fathers should get a say when science has progressed to a point that men are able to get pregnant – and only in cases when the it is the man who is pregnant.

I really don’t think elaborate exceptional rape scenarios of men or semen extraction with a hypodermic needle is keeping with the intent of the question.

I don’t interpret sarcasm, sorry. I believe it is a fool’s humor.

I apologize for not parsing properly.

@nikipedia I don’t think it’s about a situation like that. I think it’s about a couple, perhaps, where the father realizes that he really wants the child inside his partner and she doesn’t want it. It’s not about forcing anyone or getting them pregnant on purpose.

If the father can veto the mother’s choice to abort, how is that not forcing her to bear the child?

@jaytkay That is forcing her. I was answering within the realm of consent or at least a conversation where the mother would willingly carry the baby (out of respect for the father’s right to decide as well) for money or whatever and give him the baby. Obviously, as I said in my first comment, the last word is with her but there needs to be a shift in thinking in our society where we blame fathers for leaving but leave them out of any decision making processes in a meaningful way.

@squirbel I believe my view is valid because it is logical and not emotional I just had to address that because my pain goes out to you. Do you not know where you are? Logic over emotion, in this place, you would have better chance of finding vein of gold in a rock quarry before finding 30z of logic sans emotion here. However, if you believe that I have some land in Florida I will sell you dirt cheap, just keep in mind you can only go on it twice a day when the tide is out; best have a good pair of hip waders and a big gator gun. Stick by your guns. I love your enthusiasm though if they don’t bludgeon it out of you.

@jonsblond If a woman is ready and willing to open her legs for a penis, she should be ready and willing to deliver a baby. And the crowd goes wild! Absolutely, hands down, the best unequivocal phrase uttered in all of this thread which as more **** than a pig farm. I would give you 100,000 lurve for that and it still would not be enough. big bow to you madam

Now onto the other claims.

It is about not getting women pregnant in the 1st place, Who cares about the woman? They can get the bugger sucked out and still be ready for bikini season. The thought is to keep young women who are biological women from having babies because society wants to keep them ”kids” as long as possible.

Pregnancy being risky therefore run to the abortion, and how many of them that has never gave up the booze, drugs, or smoking which has been proven to be way more risky than having a child. Oh, those other things don’t come with a dirty diaper…..I get it now.

It is not the responsibility of the mother to discuss she don’t want to be a mother before she spreads her legs, if she is the one that “owns the real estate” it should be here to being it up before allowing some Trojans to breech the fortress walls. If not, stay off her back and keep the fortress locked up tight.

God did not think pregnancy out well enough, He did, it is called a married union of a man and a woman. You choose your mate and you both were onboard to having a family.

God punishing the unborn baby, it WAS NOT GOD, it was the woman and her OB or Planned Parenthood that punished the baby, they are the ones with the vacuums in their office. The babies heart stop beating because of them it was God that made the heart beat in the first place……lets get that right.

@ jonsblond Hopefully they don’t punish you because I am a fan but I would lurve you a million times but I have only one to give.

So @squirbel , are you simply not going to address the comment you made about ”..the woman is inconvenienced only a little.” ? I’m curious as to where you got that idea.

@JilltheTooth I was wondering the same thing.

@JilltheTooth It is an odd statement. I’ve never been pregnant myself, but I know my mother actually wanted to have another child, as did my father, but her 2 pregnancies were so tough on her that she told him she just couldn’t do another pregnancy, and 2 children would have to do. The idea that pregnancies can be so tough that someone would abstain from having a child in order to avoid going through one seems to suggest they’re a bit more severe than a bee sting.

Even an easy pregnancy is a bit more than a little inconvenience. The statement is a tad egregious…

A pregnancy is an inconvenience in relation to the life it bears. Any mature woman who has children sees a pregnancy in that light.

If that’s how you feel, then your Q should have specified that it only referred to “mature” women who believe that human life, with all the attendant rights and privileges involved therein, begins at conception. Too late to backpedal now.

@squirbel Please. In the case of a person wanting the baby, that is usually the case, it is something, even if the pregnancy is very difficult, that a woman is willing to deal with to have their baby. But, when a woman does not even want the baby? Think about it.

I would never give up my baby, not even to the father. Especially if it was some guy I had been dating and never intend on marrying.

Some pregnancies are truly horrific, and those women are terrified of a second one. Labor and delivery can leave permanent injury sometimes. It is not always a simple inconvenience. And even when it is a fairly easy pregnancy it still takes from the woman. I am so tired of people portraying pregnancy, labor, and deliver, as some sort of natural thing women have been doing for thousands of years, and nothing goes wrong. In nature, without medical intervention, women die or have injury all of the time from pregnancy.

Plus, any man who is big time pro-life, I hope he is only fucking women who are too. First, if they are going to become serious in their relationship, I think it is pretty important to be the same on the topic. Second, if it matters that much to someone they should reduce the risk of it happening. If men are too horny to take those precautions at minimim, too bad.

@JLeslie: “Plus, any man who is big time pro-life, I hope he is only fucking women who are too.”

well said

And again I ask, @squirbel , have you ever been pregnant? If so, have you ever carried a child to term?

@JilltheTooth: I never changed my question. There is no backpedaling. I do not believe as you do. It is futile to persecute another’s ideas.

The statement you refer to is my own answer to the question, and is not included in the question. Reading comprehension ftw.

So no answer on the above question of mine. Hmmmm.

Jumping in late here, but I just wanted to add one thing…

The only person that we know for sure that is legally responsible for the unborn child is the mother (since paternity can be questioned). That is why, even right after birth, the mother gets the say on things with the baby. Not to say the woman was sleeping around for sure, but she could have been and the person that believes they are the father may not be. Then, once the child arrives and there are questions about paternity, what would happen to the child if it was in fact not that man’s biological child?

I only thought of this because while in the hospital having our son, my husband questioned why I was the one they kept asking about everything (like giving him medications right after birth and the circumcision). The nurse nicely explained that while he was here and claiming the child as his, they (the hospital staff) only knew for sure that the baby came out of me.

That being said, I do wish there was a way men could have more say and keep their children, but until there is a way for a man to carry a pregnancy to term, it’s just wishful thinking. Until then, it’s all up to the woman since it’s her body.

Where is this vast population of cruel women who are preying on tender-hearted innocent men?

Where are these guys who long for the opportunity to devote their lives and money to being a parent, but are denied by the women they impregnate?

I have a hard to believing this is a common issue in the real world.

@JilltheTooth: You are correct in that I have not answered your question. It is not related to the original question, and is personal.

Just don’t tell the dad. If it is going to torture him, why bother. I think my inclination would be to tell, because I tend to not want to keep the truth from people, but if you are going to go through with the abortion and the guy is going to throw a hissy and feel like crap the rest of his life, it seems there is reason to lie. I say this assuming the people are not married, and not likely to get married.

I know in @jonsblond case she is very happy she did tell her boyfriend at the time she was pregnant, and she changed her mind. But, there was something special in the relationship.

@JLeslie See, this is how I feel as well. I think it’s the same thing as the idea that if you have an affair – a one night thing or a couple week thing, nothing lasting several years – but now it’s over and you’re 110% committed to your marriage again, you shouldn’t tell your spouse because it just pointlessly hurts them. If you’re telling a Mr. Right Now just to let him know, and you’re not going to change your mind, then isn’t that just hurting him for no reason?

@MyNewtBoobs It is similar. My thing about the cheating is, if the spouse is going nuts because he/she can perceive something has changed in the relationship, and is questioning the other spouse, then they have to tell at least minimum that they are at least drifting from the relationship. I guess a one time fling on night would not necessarily cause a big change in behavior. But, usually when cheating is going on the other spouse knows or at minimum is impacted negatively. With the pregnancy issue, it would be a huge secret to keep in a marriage, and so their might be some sort of change, at least for a while, in the relationship. I don’t feel I have any secrets from my husband and I am glad.