Why are some people feeling bullied on Fluther?

Pretty tough to be bullied with a keyboard.
I have indeed noticed that if you don’t like Barrack Obama or don’t hate the rich you are on a pretty long shit list here. I’m on it but I don’t feel bullied.
So, I can’t share the sentiment.

Well if that is indeed the case I would give two pieces of advice.

1) Don’t let the bastards drag you down.
2) Sticks & stones…...& all that shite.

Oh please!! I hate to even hear the word bullied. And on a site like this? What? I just say grow up.

I’m not sure that I’ve seen an abundance of bullying here. I don’t think we should be walking on eggshells, to say the least. There are a lot of controversial and heated discussions here, and a lot of honest members. I don’t believe for one second that the majority of the jellies that regularly contribute to the site are inconsiderate or bullies by any stretch of the imagination.
Does it happen occasionally? Sure. I, myself, have stood up for people (especially newer users) when I feel like someone is being pushed around or insulted for no good reason. I’ve seen plenty of others doing the same.
Fluther is like a microcosm for society. I think, more often than not, that the fact that we tend to have a couple of tight knit groups that tend to schmooze with one another, makes it feel cliquey or elitist. Maybe that contributes to the impression that certain people may have.
Sometimes people can be jerks just for the sake of being a jerk, but that doesn’t mean that we have an overabundance of jerks. I think you would have to be honing in on very specific examples or perhaps being particularly sensitive to call it “bullying.” I think that sometimes people are just assholes, and at the same time people can be quite sensitive, I think that’s just the natural order of things.

Since you put yourself out there, I will use you as an example. I like you, @Hypocrisy_Central. You know this (at least I hope you do). But, you really like to push buttons, you like to go out on a limb with a lot of your discussions… and I think you must know that you’re doing it, since it seems to be your plan. I have gotten really cranky with you on a number of threads, but I would never consider it bullying, or even personal. Sometimes we just have heated discussions around here, and people like to throw attitude around, but I just don’t see it the way you’ve described. I would guess that the majority of the ugliness I’ve seen in the time that I’ve been visiting this site has almost never been personal. I think the times that it is personal are extremely rare, and to me, they stick out like a sore thumb.

With the exception of the religious/spiritual. Fluther has become such a haven for atheists that I think it is hard for them/us not to run with the power trip and bully the believers. I’m not saying that it is right, I just think it’s hard to avoid when it is typically the other way around. That “power” goes right to our heads.

Some people are overly sensitive. I remember a jelly (no longer a member) that used to say on a regular basis “Please don’t be mean to me when you answer my questions”. The thing is, no one was mean to her – they just disagreed with her, which she interpreted as “meanness”.

Is the “bullying” happening behind the scenes, in PMs? That would be a time to get the mods involved.

Well, @ANef_is_Enuf said it…
I’ve seen newer users get very upset when called on bullshit like wild nasty generalizations, but I’ve not seen actual bullying that has not been taken care of pretty quickly by mods.

I say man up. I wonder how they feel in face to face interactions when someone disagrees or gives them a hard time?
If being “bullied” here is the worst of their problems,then they are one lucky whiner person. ;)

IMO this bully issue/drama is blown out of proportion. Put on your big boy/girl pants and deal with it.

I think some folks feel bullied simply when they are debated with.

If you want everyone to agree with you, this probably isn’t the place to be. The whole purpose of fluther is to debate issues and ideas. Sometimes those debates get a little heated. However, I don’t think people are ever deliberately hurtful and if they are, they are modded.

So, as long as the discussion is kept out in the open and on topic, no, I don’t think people are ‘bullied’ here.

@perspicacious I hate to even hear the word bullied. And on a site like this? What? I just say grow up. If a person feel bullied, they do. I guess you can tell a kid who has stuff said about them online that they should “man up” and just ignore it or at worse start your own rumors and insult them back. I can, and won’t get into the personal particular details, but if someone feel slighted or treated in a disrespectful manner even during a hard debate, they do. Sometimes those who disagree do so in a way that the person they are disagreeing with feels disrespected. Did they do it on purpose? Most of the time I am sure they didn’t, but you never know how someone else can take something.

@ANef_is_Enuf I like you, @Hypocrisy_Central. You know this (at least I hope you do). But, you really like to push buttons, you like to go out on a limb with a lot of your discussions… and I think you must know that you’re doing it, since it seems to be your plan. I see it as stretching the bounds of imagination. Sometimes I will put people’s believe to the same test they try to put mine to and see if they can logically support it or just believe it because they chose to. You have not seen me really push a button, and probably won’t because the mods prevent more than you know from ever getting out of the “peatmod” so anyone has a chance at it.

*I have gotten really cranky with you on a number of threads, but I would never consider it bullying, or even personal. I would hope you didn’t as I certainly hope because I choose to take the logic to its furthest limits in challenging any assumption I think is less than genuine. I guess if someone get cranky it is better than being ignored, but I would hope they didn’t get cranky or worse in the first place.

I am use to it, some people are use to much of it, but maybe the way something was said, or how makes them think it was personal. Even Jellies who are not noobs can feel that way, they are still human.

@Bellatrix Sometimes those debates get a little heated. However, I don’t think people are ever deliberately hurtful and if they are, they are modded. I have seen quite a few “heated debates”, many times they t-bone me right in the intersection. With so many people from so many areas of life, what one would not see as bashing someone it is plausible the person on the other end of the exchange seen it that way. You don’t have to use insulting words or slurs to malign someone. I could offend someone if I used the word chics for women, or the older term broads. If I get called on it and the person who said it to me I said something that only a obtuse simpleton would get offended over that, the person who pointed it out could feel slighted. Not everyone whom spoke to me that they were bashed, pounced on, or maligned felt it was simply because someone disagreed with them, as I say, some have been here a minute. You can disagree, and you can disagree civilly. If you shoot for civilly above ever thing else it is usually better.

This is news to me. I’ve certainly come across flutherites being challenged on their opinions, but that falls into healthy debating territory for me.

Since the cat is out of the bag, there are a lot of you mother fuckers that haven’t given me your lunch money yet this week.

i just don’t want to see any of you have an accident

@Blondesjon Motherfuckers is one word, dumb ass.

Which splains why we’ve been slow on the lunch money payment. Anybody who can’t spell “motherfuckers” properly is just not intimidating enough to get my lunch money.

When I was 17 I had to have my prostate checked by a doctor. I described it as being raped. My GF at the time had actually been raped and was a bit peeved by my use of the word since it diminished it. As someone that was bullied in high school I feel that you are doing the same here.

I have not seen it, nor experienced it here in the lagoon (or anywhere, for that matter, since middle school).

As for “feeling bullied”, well feelings aren’t always reality.

I put the space in there to denote that I was speaking slowly so that you m-o-t-h-e-r-f-u-c-k-e-r-s would understand me.

Evidently some attitudes need immediate correction. Please line up and receive your wedgie and/or belittling. Please be sure to have the aforementioned lunch money as well. I don’t have time to deal with this after school.

i have dance lessons

Dance = Ballerina Classes

ballerina classes = you’re right

or are you hitting on me? i’m flattered and all but . . .

@Hypocrisy_Central This whole question reminds me of grade school. You are speaking for a bunch of unidentified Flutherers? Really?

I cannot take it seriously. You don’t say how many. You don’t say (nor should you) who they are. You don’t give any actual examples of so-called bullying behavior for us to evaluate.

@Blondesjon :: if I knew if you were the husband or the wife we could figure out the hitting on thing. You two confuse my PBR addled brain.

@johnpowell . . . duh, i’m the one who’s a dick

People play out their own stuff here, as they do in real life.
I’m not bothered by it, I recognize it for what it is, mostly hypersensitive, insecure types that react like 5 year olds when someone disagrees or challenges their distorted perceptions.

The internet is a great podium for many with emotional problems to hide behind their keyboards and spout their poison. I simply avoid the few that have shown me they are emotionally unstable and prone to nasty outbursts or, I humor them.

Being able to disagree and move on without harboring immature grudges or dislikes is part of being a big boy or girl.

@Blondesjon :: So the one that has a radio show?

I can’t believe that being logical could destructive. Only people who are emotional and intentionally include their emotion in their posts could cause havoc. You simply answer the what is asked according to the question, there’s no need to add your own ‘ketchup and spices’.

@Coloma :: If you spout shit like “GOD HATES FAGS” I will not help with fixing your computer. This has actually happened a lot of times and I am totally amused. Simple fix and I know it but I giggle and suggest they take it to Best Buy.

And I do keep list of the homophobes on Fluther.

@johnpowell . . . yep. you wouldn’t happen to have that link wouldja?

@johnpowell I hope there aren’t any other lists we should worry about?

@rOs :: The racist one is folded into the homophobia one. On my site the Terms of service are: No Homoprobia, racism, misogyny, or porn. There are no warnings. You will be banned,

@johnpowell

Of course, there is run o’ the mill obnoxious and then there is just plain insane. haha

I could see how some things could make someone feel bullied… like the heated debates that turn into personal attacks and then carry on from one question to another and then into PMs. I’ve seen that happen and remember two people in particular and trying to get them to just ignore each other instead of continuing to egg each other on. Those seem to be rare situations though.

I’ve also noticed an increase in the amount of times and quickness some of the people here are calling someone a troll. It seems like, for some users, they are quick to call someone a troll instead of giving them the benefit of a doubt.

All in all, I think it sucks that people (and from the way you make it sound, a lot of people) are feeling bullied here. Yes, people get into some heated debates and we discuss topics that people are known to be very passionate about, but to think people actually feel bullied from those things makes me kind of sad.

Because some people are bullied, though I would agree that being bullied on an Internet forum is not nearly as bad as being bullied in school.

Pushes Bob into a wall while shouting “econ nerd faggot” <—That is how my life in high school was. Your Facebook drama is minor compared to real bullying.

@marinelife Unfortunately, that means you’ll never take it seriously even if it is serious (though I don’t think it is here). If an example is given there is a good chance we can find it. I think we gotta trust @Hypocrisy_Central here in saying that some people feel bullied.

As for why people feel bullied, I couldn’t say. I get annoyed at threads here sometimes and there are times I fall off a thread because I don’t feel its worth it, but overall I have a positive experience here. I haven’t noticed anyone here consistently acting poorly across multiple threads.

Of course, all this falls apart if people feel I’m the bully. If that’s the case, please tell me @Hypocrisy_Central and I’ll change.

@johnpowell Hence the “not nearly as bad”.

@johnpowell . . . mine was YOU’RE A FAT LITTLE FAGGOT NOW PUSH THIS FUCKING PENNY!!

that was high school. a place i am no longer in. i got over it.

I’m curious… perhaps the people who feel bullied here are in high school or are younger?

@roundsquare My comment does not mean that I will never take anything seriously. It means that in this case, because there are no specifics, no numbers, and no one speaking up for themselves, and I am considering the source, I don’t take it seriously.

…and I am considering the source, I don’t take it seriously.

Oh my.

Perhaps bullying is in the eye of the beholder? People who have very strong convictions often feel persecuted if others don’t agree with them. And their sense of certitude overcomes all reason.

@marinelife ”...and I am considering the source, I don’t take it seriously.”
Maybe it isn’t bullying at all. Maybe it is withering condescension.

Anyway, I have been thinking about this one, so I am back in the thread.

I think it has to do with the expansion of the notion that “everybody has an opinion”
Once, when I was a kid, it was revealed to me the “everybody has an opionion. ”
And, of course they do, so it makes sense.
But as the years have gone by, that old axiom has been expanded to “everybody has an opinion, and all opinions are equally valid and valuable,” which of course they are not.
But some people actually believe that.
And when it turns out to be untrue, they may feel like they are being bullied.
But beyond that, my original response stands.

I went through a period of time in my life when I was super sensitive to too many things…including debates which are a love of mine. After feeling very scorched (not on this site but on others years ago) I realized that I was not in the emotional place to partake in heated debates. I stayed away from them understanding that I needed to get stronger.

I have noticed a great number of people, though, who get upset when you don’t agree with them…in RL as well as in cyberspace. That is not bullying. That is a sign, if you’re upset, that you need to detach. If the conversation devolves to name calling then that does have overtones of bullying but I think of it more like poor communication meets extreme frustration…all parties should part until they calm down.

From what I’ve seen here, the mods are prompt at taking down personal attacks.

@josie I’d say it is about the personal attacks and “mean PMs” some people say they have received.

Nobody ever sends me mean PMs.

<—feels left out :(

@bob_ How about now?

@Adirondackwannabe You were the third one.

Great reply. I’ve just been bullied with a math equation. That’s going to drive me nuts.

I got the same one.

Ok, fess up. Who was the third one?

Jill.

@bob figures.

Perhaps some jellies feel that they’ve been “bullied” when other jellies display “bully-like behavior”. I’m not saying it’s like real life bullying where victims are physically assaulted, but there IS such a thing as verbal bullying and, minus the bruises, it can occasionally be just as damaging.

I know I’m guilty of being overly-aggressive when I feel that I’m being pushed on something, or when I’m just flat out annoyed with someone, and many other jellies are guilty of the same thing.

Verbal bullying IS possible over the internet, many of us are guilty of it, and anyone who says differently is in denial of their own behavior.

@WillWorkForChocolate

I agree, abusive behavior can take place online just as it can in real life.
I got sucked into a bullying moment once, when I was still fairly new here, and
I’ve had a couple of pissy moments, but they are the exception rather than the rule.
Whether online or in real life consistency is where it’s at.
The jellies I ‘trust’ are the ones that CONSISTENTLY show me through their interactions that they are essentially decent, emotionally well regulated peeps, and IF they have a bad moment I know it is an uncommon happening as it is for me.

Why do I get the feeling this has something to do with people thinking any disagreement with their opinion is an attack on their opinion and violation of their freedom of speech? I’m hoping that’s not what some people interpret as “bullying”, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was…

I don’t know why people feel bullied since that might or might NOT mean they are bullied.

Im sure fluther is filled with intelligent people but at the end of it all its people that we are dealing with….and with people there would be those that just feel that they own the right to be right all the time and that your answer just doesnt matter once it contradicts theirs. Egotism will always be in the dark corners of inteligence and rationalism and there would be always people who think that they are better than someone else. My advice is just ignore the bashing, tell the mods but accept that everywhere you go..even in cyberspace there would be bashers..people who just dont respect anyone else but themselves. Its the way of life.

Your friend said that my friend told your other friend that their friend…

Please.

My answers are always the same to this sort of shit—if you don’t like it here you can always leave.

Bullied? I seriously doubt it.

Are there people that track each other down and rip each other to shreds for no reason? I see that on here once and a while. I’ve seen it recently between two users. I walk away from threads they answer on. It’s childish and ignorant, but it’s not bullying.

If someone doesn’t like someone following them around threads or PM-ing them or whatever the fuck is going on, wouldn’t it be better for them to address it head on.

This whole question seems passive aggressive and codependent to me. If someone’s having an issue with someone else, why does a third party get involved? If it is true cyber-bullying, have the mods been notified?

Grow a pair, that’s what I say.

OK, almost 60 posts in, let me ask you, @Hypocrisy_Central , because you’re the guy with the inside info, why are some people feeling bullied on Fluther? Without naming names, or giving revealing details, can you answer your own Q? I think it’s nice that they contact you and ask for help or commiseration or whatever, and I hope you deal with them with realistic compassion, but I must admit I’m curious. I’ve been here almost a year now, and I started with inside info and was welcomed by many in a lovely fashion because of KatawaGrey, and it still took me a while to figure out that you are, indeed, oft a receiver of flung poo. I would not have thought it would be so obvious right away.

I can’t answer your question, because I’m unaware of anyone feeling that way on a regular basis. If, indeed, someone does feel they are being bullied, the proper course of action is to let us know about it. Send me a PM, people! Let the mods know, and we’ll be happy to look into it for you.

Something that should be considered is that the written word, without the benefit of body language, can often be taken as being much harsher than was intended. The caveat to this is that too many people are emboldened by anonymity and say things that they probably wouldn’t if that person was sitting in front of them.

Another thing to consider is that this is worldwide. I have seen people take the written words of an American has an insult, because their country/culture doesn’t use language in the same way.

To me, there is a vast difference between someone typing: “You are a (vulgar name)” and typing “Can you back up that answer with some facts?”. The first is bullying and the second may or may not be disagreement.

@YARNLADY The first seems like an insult to me, not bullying. Wouldn’t bullying be something a bit more than that?

Let’s face it: we all have different personality types. When we treat others as we want to be treated, feelings are going to get hurt. For example, some love to debate, while others may not. Some are capable of carrying off sarcasm, while others do not appreciate it, or it goes over their head, especially when tone and facial expressions cannot be experienced in person.

Joining Fluther is like going to work at a new company or department where the existing culture and relationships are not known. While there are co-workers that will take the time to help out the new person, many go about their daily duties and give the brush-off when the new person comes to them with a question. For those that do not have a thick skin, it can be a painful orientation as a new member gets acclimated. If we forget how it felt to be a new member, be it at work or on a website, we lose the ability to empathize in these situations.

Having been a member here for a year, I pretty much know who I can comfortably debate with when it comes to those that have been around for awhile. As for new members, I try to post more gentle responses. It doesn’t always work; there are times when emotions or logic get the better of me.

@Hypocrisy_Central The best thing, IMO, that you can do is to help these people who come to you for advice is to let them know how the site works. They should flag the question or answer or PM so that the moderators become aware of it, especially if they are not willing to confront the poster. While it may not deserve being removed or having the user booted, my experience is that the moderators are good at providing explanations as to why actions are being taken or not, as long as someone asks for it.

Like others have said, explicitly or implicitly, if you feel bullied on an internet forum you need to sack up. Seriously. Grow a spine. It’s the internet. It’s words on a screen by some stranger you don’t have to give two shits about. If you find the experience irritating, go outside.

This place is for having interesting, informative, or entertaining discourse. If that isn’t happening for you, change your attitude about it and it will.

We know what bullying is in RL, but can someone give an example —real or not— of what bullying could be here on Fluther?
We know bullying is not disagreeing with someone and as @SpatzieLover says, an insult is just that.

Bullying behaviour intends to demoralize the other person to maintain or create a power imbalance.

To me bullying behaviour here would be messages out of the blue that were rude telling me that I’m not wanted here and should leave whilst using choice expletives. There would need to be a bunch of such messages before I would consider it “attempted bullying”.

@JilltheTooth OK, almost 60 posts in, let me ask you, @Hypocrisy_Central , because you’re the guy with the inside info, why are some people feeling bullied on Fluther? Without naming names, or giving revealing details, can you answer your own Q? OK, I will start with yours though there are others I could clear up because I think they missed the mark slightly or by a bit. Hopefully theirs will be address under yours, since yours seem to address the question we should be tackling instead of just pushing out one’s chest and saying Fluther is a perfect place, there is no bullying. This is the land of sugar plum fairies, roses, and lilacs, and milk rains from the sky. Or, just telling those who felt they were bullied, even if they were not bullied in a clinical sense, to just ”grow a pair”, which if said long and loud enough to a feminist might seem like bullying.

Why am I saying anything? Why should I not? ‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’; Edmund Burke. Because many of whom have left, gone, been run off. I do not think any actual act of conscious bullying goes on. I think some behavior that is bully-like, happens. The people that do them I am not sure they are aware. I am sure at times many times people see me that way. I don’t see it as a 24/7 problem but some people, even if they are not clinically correct, feel bullied to the point they left, or on more than a few threads.

One example, there was this Jelly, a noob, he had less than 30 lurve. I noticed him and gave him my usual greeting as I do most noobs when I see them. He tried to rip me a new one. Instead of getting pissed and firing back a nasty PM to even the score, I kept calm and PM him back stating I was just welcoming him here. I guess he thought it was some cruel joke’ because I was using my Star Trek inspired avatar with the likeness of a well-liked Jelly. He thought I was one of those ”ball busting feminist” his words, not mine. I told him he really didn’t know who I was, because of he asked around or read my profile, he would know he gotten it wrong. He didn’t divulge what answer(s) or question(s) he made or what he said or was said to him to make him feel in such a short span of time this was not a friendly place to be.

There was another Jelly, not a noob but not a mansion dweller either. This Jelly didn’t feel blasted or maligned 24/7 on every thread but enough to the point of quitting, about 3 weeks ago.

Just because you didn’t intend to insult, malign, or degrade someone, don’t mean you did not, in the eye of the person you are speaking to.

Should I not let words bother me or should I take them out of context? Should I ”man up” and just grow a pair and not let it bother me? That is up to what is said, how it is said and how the listener takes it into context. As an African American I could get bent out of shape every time someone uses the word ”boy” even if they used it in a way they though was totally innocent and maybe is. If they said something like ”Them boys over their selling that dope are going to find themselves lots of trouble”. If said by someone other than an African American if I took it as racist then I chose to do that, even if it were not intended as that. When I was in school, there was a special ed. class with handicapped kids in it. It was quite common that the kids in the class were referred to as crippled, teachers use it, school staff used it, all us kids used it. Did the kids in wheelchairs and on crutches and leg braces like the term or figured we were using it against them, no one ever stopped to ask.

Instead of saying ”I never did that, it never happens here” why not slow down and at least entertain the idea it could be probable, even unintended, that someone would feel bullied. Took at it this way, if you were female and someone said things that were totally not sexist by content but could be taken as that, would you tell the women who thought it was sexist to quit getting their panties in a bunch and let it flow off their back like water off a duck?

I know a fair number of members and what their nuclear issues are, someone just showing up, do not know any of us. We should be good ambassadors and at least let them get to know the flavor of the site before pouncing like wolves. If it was all about ”grow a pair”, why would we need the moderators? We could just say every person for themselves and if you can’t go to war, go hide in a bunker.

Did you mean to post that twice?

OK, most of us have admitted to getting heated (I think in light of your explanation, the word “bullying” may be inappropriate). I recently had it out with a young person, the first snark was mine, some not nice stuff happened, said young person and I both owned our snark, made friends added each other, etc etc. I don’t feel the need to always be the bigger person, I don’t tend to really try to draw someone out if they come at me with a machete for no reason beyond my disagreeing with them, but I do try to own my bad behavior. I won’t suggest that anyone grow a pair (sounds painful) but when someone comes in with an attitude, then freaks because others disagree, maybe they need to own their own stuff, as in that first example of yours. As far as the 2nd example goes: There was another Jelly, not a noob but not a mansion dweller either. This Jelly didn’t feel blasted or maligned 24/7 on every thread but enough to the point of quitting, about 3 weeks ago. Maybe they felt it was hard to be here because maybe Fluther just wasn’t a good fit. There are some definite trends in thought here that can be pretty hard to deal with if you’re not of a like mind, or don’t want to walk away from every heated thread.
I want to be here as a social person, as a discussing, thinking person, as a joking, cooking, hiccupping, bug-bitten person, but not as everyone’s mommy. Well, quite a few, actually, but not everyone.

Is this the question of the day?
I think it should be up for nomination :-)

@Hypocrisy_Central What you are describing sounds either insulting, harsh or judgemental but it does not seem, IMO to be bullying.

@JilltheTooth (I think in light of your explanation, the word “bullying” may be inappropriate). Maybe there could be a better word for it, but we shouldn’t let semantic water down the issue. If the disagreement comes in a form that the person being disagreed with feels is personal it can seem like bullying even if, as I say, it doesn’t fall in clinical definition of it. Even if it didn’t rise to the clinical definition of bullying does that mean we should at least bridle our tongues any less? I were to call women, broads, skirts, tarts, etc. and when it is brought to my attention some find it offensive, and I say only a half-witted ninny would get upset over it and refer to the complainers over and over by those terms to be sarcastically witty or such, it could come of to those women as bullying. If a person feels they are disrespected hard enough it could seem like bullying to them. Whether or not it is actually bullying, or not, if you go the extra step to be civil it would be harder for anyone to feel they were disrespected or bullied.

I might debate hard but I have held back using words I know I have a Constitutional right to say because I believed the party I was engaged with may get it wrong or misinterpret it; even though it still happens anyhow, just not intended.

We have to remember what bullying is…in most cases, it’s one or several people tormenting one person on a regular basis. There have indeed been fights, spats, and clashings on here, but I’ve never seen specific people target a specific person. I’ve been bullied in real life about three years ago at work, for more than six months. I wouldn’t call a fight, disagreement or outright flaming ’‘bullying’’ if it doesn’t continue.
That doesn’t mean it won’t hurt someone, upset them or anger them, no, and intentional pain being dealt is never right, whether it’s once or constant. But this is the internet, and even in the more sophisticated and mature places, it’s gonna happen. I guess the whole anonymity thing makes it easier for this communication medium to be the Far West. Online bullying is real I guess, but not on here. Or not that I may see, anyways.

Of course, bullying can take some very subtle forms, and it’s still being bullied. I don’t know if there are any instances on Fluther where some more shadowy bullying went on. Subtle trolling against someone that slips by the guidelines, mass lurving one or several people going against one person; this is stuff I’ve seen done on AnswerBag quite a few times, for example. Sometimes I see people on here call out one person on their shit, and it goes a bit mental. But I’ve never seen anyone go out of their way to torment a person, and those that did were quickly banished.
So why do people feel like that…reasons listed a plenty. Not saying a person is wrong for feeling bullied when what they’re being dealt isn’t actually bullying, but perhaps a thicker skin needs to be grown? I just wanted to make sure we were on the same page when it comes to bullying. :/

hi @Hypo, look I have seen some responses to others that have made me cringe a little because of their bluntness but if responses are very aggressive or over-the-top and a person feels they are over-stepping the line, they should flag them.

While I agree some people are far blunter than I would ever be, and others are far more sensitive than I am ever likely to be too, should be try to moderate for those differences? This site is already pretty rigidly policed. If we start moderating debates for being tactless or blunt and to avoid offending those people who might be offended or hurt by responses, where will it end? Certainly I agree people can and should aim for civil and polite in their responses but honestly, if we start trying to enforce this, we will end up with responses that are so vanilla the site will become a waste of time and energy.

I have a philosophy with regards to online interaction. I don’t agree with everyone here and I know some people don’t agree with me. There are some people whose posts I rarely read in any detail for one reason or another. I am quite sure there are people who read my responses and groan inwardly too. I am equally sure that since you have been on the receiving end of quite a bit of disagreement, you probably follow the same philosophy. Some criticism you take on board, other criticism you reject. As long as things are in the open, I feel we all have to self police to a degree.

If things get taken to private messages and become abusive or bullying or even offensive to the receiver, then that is out of line and the mods should be informed.

Does it maybe have something to do with the summer-time influx of teens and pre-teens fresh outta school? People who might interpret any disagreement as meanness?

It’s easy for people to bully and intimidate when they’re sitting behind a computer, thousands of miles away from other Flutherites, and act like God. Anonymity gives them the guts to act the way they would never act in person. Just ask them to reveal their real names and where they live, present real photos of themselves for their avatars, give us their real identities, and they would most likely think twice before before acting rude and argumentative towards others. It’s like those delinquent morons who riot in the street after their favorite sports team loses, breaking store windows, looting things, and burning police vehicles. Lost in the crowd, they think they’re brave, but when they’re caught and identified, they shrink with fear and become sheepishly apologetic.

oh the irony. I love it.

@incendiary_dan I am not sure it has anything to do with an influx of summer-time influx of teens and pre-teens fresh outta school as it does with bored out of their addled minded seasoned Jellies with nothing better to do but pick away at the the low hanging fruit of Jellies simply looking for lurve!

It is difficult to determine to what extent bullying might be a problem here. Many people have already pointed this out, but it rings true: a lot of times, people, usually younger people, interpret disagreement or debate as an attack. And oftentimes, young people will ask questions in which the older and wiser of jellies can clearly see they’re about to make a terrible mistake, and they try to offer gentle advice, and the asker usually takes great offense at that. In those situations, I don’t think the jellies offering the advice are doing anything wrong.

One dismaying thing I have noticed happens fairly often here is that someone will ask a question that is meant to be hypothetical and people will take it seriously. If the question is controversial, this often results in it receiving many replies along the lines of “are you seriously asking this?” and a lot of other reactionary replies that assume a lot about the questioner’s intentions. Here is an example of such a situation (sorry, not trying to single out the jellies involved).

So, to those who responded that users who feel bullied need to “sack up”, “grow a pair”, “grow up”, “deal with it”, “put on big boy pants”, etc – what exactly does that look like to you? I’m a bit puzzled, as none of these users (that I know of) have posted questions attacking those who they felt had bullied them. Instead, they PMed Hypo saying “Hey, I’m feeling a bit bullied, how would you suggest I deal with it?”, or they left (or, a secret option #3 that still involves dealing with it quietly and maturely). To me, this is exactly what “dealing with it”, “sacking up”, “growing up”, etc looks like. I’m really curious – what does “dealing with it” look like to you if not that?

Bullying doesn’t always take the form of obvious personal attacks (online or in real life). It’s often very passive-aggressive, and subtle. People can be very nasty without calling you names. And there are certain threads where everyone jumps in to tell the OP off, even if telling them off includes going off-topic or being unhelpful in a General question (often happens with questions about homosexuality or downloading music, among others). So it’s not hard to see how someone could interpret that as bullying. Ok, I’d never use the term bullying, but not because I think it’s any milder, but rather because I think the term bullying is so subjective and vague as to have lost all meaning. Whatever.

There was a question posted in the last week by a young, new member that asked a question that the older members have seen crop up more than once. It was an honest question that typically gets treated with responses that show the desire to help the OP. Instead, it turned into ongoing flow of short retorts that, if I had been the OP, would have closed my account immediately. There were only a few Jellies that took the time to answer the question with patience and grace.

As soon as the question was found, I flagged it and asked that a moderator keep an eye on it. For approximately an hour, I observed the rude and helpless comments be flung, despite it being in the General section, if I recall correctly. The OP attempted to address some of the comments, but the zingers kept coming in full force. It sickened me that people on this site would respond in such a way. I finally stopped following the thread and sent a PM to the OP that it would be in his/her best interest to stop following it as well, stick with the site due to their valuable questions posted previously, and shake it off. An explanation that we are normally not that offensive was offered and not to take it personally.

While some of the responses were deleted, I was surprised that more were not, once a moderator looked at it. Fortunately, the whole thread has been deleted. It was not representative of how we normally act here, be it a member or a moderator.

For those of you that say to “man up” or any other form of the same phrase, then I have to wonder about your ability to empathize. Would you feel the same way or give the same response if it were your parent, spouse, child or best friend who came to you with the same concern?

@Mariah That happens all the time with questions about topics where the majority of the users have strong opinions, like this one. I’ll readily agree that it is an idiotic question, so why be an idiot about it? Just flag it and ignore the troll, but no, being right is never enough, one has to rip anyone who disagrees with one a new one, as if that is going to change somebody’s mind.

[mod says] No need to get personal, folks.

@Pied_Pfeffer could you post a link to that thread? I think it would be valuable for us to look at it. As others have said, not to single people out but so we can all reflect on how we behave online and whether we could, even inadvertently, be accused of bullying others. I have seen thrreads where people seem to gang up and I agree that it isn’t pleasant and I have flagged such things myself in the past.

I also want to say that I don’t think questions like this are a bad thing. Taking a good look at ourselves both individually and as a community and how we treat those we are interacting with can only be positive if we are prepared to reflect on our own behaviour.

Ah, just fuck mean people!

@Pied_Pfeffer There was a question posted in the last week by a young, new member that asked a question that the older members have seen crop up more than once. It was an honest question that typically gets treated with responses that show the desire to help the OP. Instead, it turned into ongoing flow of short retorts that, if I had been the OP, would have closed my account immediately. There were only a few Jellies that took the time to answer the question with patience and grace. EXACTLY! Part of what I am saying, and it has happened before were people were driven off. It wasn’t up front, in your face type of a deal because no one was looking for them, they didn’t have tons of followers, or posted many question. Neither did they tell most of you they were out of here, why they chose to tall me I guess if they looked around they would have seen I weathered many storms but will not allow anyone to blow me out of the lagoon.

If I meet a new person or the friend of a friend I would not engage them in a round of ”The Dozens” as I would a friend because I don’t know them, or them me, so they might take some of the ribbing personally. New people just coming in don’t know every question that was asked or not, if it wasn’t so much a duplicate that it gets flagged.

@bob_ Just flag it and ignore the troll,… Is that in reference to the questioner who asked the question you posed? If so, would they be just as much a troll if they had posted something like, “Why are all churches fake, and the preacher hypocrites?”

@Hypocrisy_Central If so, would they be just as much a troll if they had posted something like, “Why are all churches fake, and the preacher hypocrites?

Sounds like a very rasonable question to me ;)

(btw, no bully)

@FutureMemory Sounds like a very rasonable question to me To me it would be a fair question as the question @bob_ posted, even if the abortion part is kind of out there because there is no way of knowing, and it would only apply if you believed, but still a fair question to ask non-trolling, if you ask me.

You know what, @Hypocrisy_Central ? I try to behave well, here, and mostly I succeed, and frankly so do most of the Jellies that would even weigh in on a Q like this. But after all is said and done, only I am keeper of my conscience, not the mods, not Auggie, sorry, mom, you know I love you and certainly not you. It’s impossible to predict how strangers will react to language usage, or anything and ultimately we all have the option to simply not go to Qs that upset us, to not read comments from specific persons whom we find offensive, and to not post our angry or offended retorts. I think this site is remarkably civilized considering the nature of the internet, but sometimes we all get a bit angry/snarky/hurt/outraged/etc etc. and we all have to deal with people not liking us/arguing/slamming our opinions/ etc.etc.
Part of coping with life is dealing with things we don’t like.

And crap, I hate it when I miss the stuff that was modded! Was it really juicy? Should I just stay up later from now on so I don’t miss it?

@bob_ While I agree with most of your latest post, I don’t think that the OP in that example is a troll. Look at the other questions that were asked since they joined the site in February. Questions about tech stuff and jelly beans and pulling a loose tooth does not equate to a troll.

@Bellatrix I sent you a PM with the information about the thread. Apparently, it wasn’t deleted; just closed.

@Aethelflaed I’m a bit puzzled, as none of these users (that I know of) have posted questions attacking those who they felt had bullied them. Instead, they PMed Hypo
Maybe they have posted questions —not attacking but calling out the jelly_. Who knows? But we never got to see them because those questions didn’t pass the censorship team here.

Last nite I gave an example of what in my opinion was very rude behavior, and gave the name of the person who did it to me only to be modded overnight. Nobody was calling people names and the person who did it to me recognized by her own account to be an agressive woman and provided the link of the event in question. All the exchange was modded.

So, why even bother to try give an specific example of a very rude situation and the people who are rude because they can’t stand when others having opposing viewpoints to theirs? It’s only going to be modded. Check @augustlan‘s comment No need to get personal, folks. Meaning, talk about bullying all you want, but don’t you dare name names, or specific situations or else your questions or comments will be chopped, as mine were last nite.

@Porifera Actually, I wasn’t trying to ask for names or specific incidents, but rather for what “dealing with it” looks like, since I got the impression that many users disagree that privately asking for guidance from a member they think could empathize or simply leaving the site wasn’t good enough.

@Hypocrisy_Central @Pied_Pfeffer I think the OP exhibited troll-like behavior on that thread, but then it’s a matter of perspective. I meant that if one believes somebody is being trollish, the appropriate thing to do is to flag the question or quip.

@bob_ You know, I looked through the question you linked, and perhaps it is just because I am biased, and because many of the answers were modded, but I thought most of the answers that question received were appropriate. In a case such as that in which the user clearly holds a view that I consider very wrong, I would certainly choose to debate him. The key is to do so in a polite and reasonable manner.

The problem I have with the question I posted above (“Does the bible allow one to abort a homosexual fetus”) is that it doesn’t imply that the questioner agrees with the abortion of homosexual fetuses, but many of the replies did not even attempt to answer the question and attacked the asker under the assumption that he does. The question was hypothetical and could easily have come from an adolescent Christian who was beginning to doubt some of his religion’s tenets.

@Mariah The modded answers were, should we say, unhelpful.

@Porifera You can give examples without naming names. Naming names can cause more trouble (as it did with the back and forth between the two of you which was really unnecessary in this question), that’s why it gets modded. It happens anytime there is any question that calls out bad behavior and people start to name names, so it’s not just this question about bullying. You could have described the incident without naming the person. Of course someone is going to get defensive when being called out, it’s only natural and doesn’t really help anything in this setting (meaning doing it here in the question). Things like that should be done in private and with the mod team if it’s really a problem.

With that said, what you did kind of proves the point of how some people could easily feel bullied (on both ends). You called out someone you felt was rude to you and then the two of you went back and forth calling out each others behavior. At any time in that exchange, either one of you could have felt bullied, since it is how the person feels that really matters, even if neither of you was trying to actually bully the other. How people feel is not wrong or right, it just is. If they were actually bullied is a bit different, but feelings are just that, feelings.

.

@Seaofclouds The incident in question happened a while ago. I didn’t make much of it then and never took action because frankly, I couldn’t care less.

Last night, the incident came back to mind when the person in question said (at this point I hadn’t even participated in the thread) that in fact she was guilty of having been over-agressive at times to which I responded that I knew it first-hand from a past encounter with her. Had she not mentioned her agressive behavior first, I probably wouldn’t have said anything about the incident. IMO I was just stating a fact but some of you call that to point fingers. My whole point was —and still is— that people get very defensive and feel personally attacked when you disaggree with them and then turn extremely rude.

As for being modded, I couldn’t even begin to tell you how little that means to me. What I get from that is that here it is better to go around the bushes and not address things directly.

@Porifera Addressing things directly is not a problem, it’s just best to be done in private so that it doesn’t escalate further with other people getting involved. I understand what you are saying about why you brought up the incident with that person, I’m just saying that naming names in situations like this has never been okay on questions in Fluther, it’s not something new.

I have felt bullied on here one occasion, not recently. At the time I didn’t need to alert anyone to it as the moderators were already watching and came to my ‘rescue’ in a manner of speaking.

I have also felt challenged on here and this has made me step back a couple of times and take some time out. There are some strong headed people on here and you have to mix with that…sometimes it can even be good for us… when it gets too much you need to shout but I think ultimately Fluther is a lovely place and haven’t seen that much bullying myself.

@Seaofclouds Oh, please! :( How can I make you understand that I had nothing to address directly because what she did wasn’t important to me. Last night, I only replied to her comment because IMO it suited the discussion. Technically I didn’t name names, I just addressed the person directly.

…escalate further with other people getting involved. No one else got involved that I know of.

I never complained about my comments being modded because as I said before, it doesn’t mean anything to me. Whether my comment is left there or deleted makes zero difference to me. I just pointed that for whatever reason things get censured here and sometimes why even bother if that’s the case.

…never been okay on questions in Fluther, it’s not something new. It may not be something new for you, but note that I am new to Fluther and I am learning things as I go along. So it was new for me. Not anymore though.

If we are entirely through playing tennis with words, can we please get back to the actual question?

What I said in my first comment stands: “Perhaps some jellies feel that they’ve been “bullied” when other jellies display “bully-like behavior”.” Perhaps some jellies also feel bullied when someone grabs hold with their teeth and refuses to let go. Occasionally, things get quite heated here, as they do on any other Q&A website. The difference is, we have mods that step in and remove inappropriate comments, as proven last night.

@WillWorkForChocolate stole my lunch money!!!

@WillWorkForChocolate ATE my lunch money!!!

@WillWorkForChocolate Stole my lunch, bit me, and gave my money to the homeless.

@WillWorkForChocolate wiped her ass with my lunch money.

@erichw1504 I merely borrowed your lunch money, darling. You can have it back with 15% interest.
@JilltheTooth I’m so sorry about that, but it looked like chocolate…
@Adirondackwannabe Well, I felt that you owed me after that wonderful “incident” the other night And I did warn you that I bite, my love.
@Jude Hey, in all fairness, you told me to do that. It’s not my fault that you have strange bedroom proclivities…

@WillWorkForChocolate typo. “wiped”..:) I know you like something a little harder than that, girl. Like Auggie’s whip. Mmmm

It seems to me that bullying behavior is not allowed on fluther. If people feel bullied, even in private messages, they should bring their case to Augustlan. Fluther does more than is necessary, in my opinion, to pull the contestants apart and tell them to play nice. If you feel bullied, I would guess you have a really really thin skin. I say this because in my experience, the mods go way out of their way to eliminate anything that has even the faintest whiff of bullying, or anything else they feel doesn’t adhere to the guidelines.

@Jude I know you typo’d; I was there, remember??? It was like an episode of “Two Girls, One Dollar Bill”. <shudder> :P

@WillWorkForChocolate When you said you bit I didn’t think you meant there. It’s still got a 90 degree kink to it. Talk about a bully.

@Adirondackwannabe Funny, I didn’t hear you complaining at the time…

@WillWorkForChocolate The endorphins had kicked in by then. Now they’ve worn off.

@Adirondackwannabe Ahhh, well then I apologize. If you’d like, I can come over to be your nurse.

@WillWorkForChocolate Yeah, like that isn’t going to remind of “Misery”.

Can I watch? I lurved Misery ;)

I promise I’ll be gentle. And I don’t have a sledgehammer.

You guys are too anxious. I’ll stick with being bullied on fluther.

hehe

@Hypocrisy_Central “we should at least bridle our tongues any less? I were to call women, broads, skirts, tarts, etc. and when it is brought to my attention some find it offensive, and I say only a half-witted ninny would get upset over it and refer to the complainers over and over by those terms to be sarcastically witty or such, it could come of to those women as bullying”.

As a woman (I had no choice in the matter) the day that I cease thinking of myself as a broad, a skirt, or a tart, I may as well shoot myself. Let tongues fly. Isn’t Fluther a microcosm of the real world? Those who experience bullying, when others do not, probably feel it too in their everyday lives. I don’t think Fluther should pander to those who commonly experience every idea that goes against their beliefs as a personal slight. To do so would be at the expense of the rest of the group.

I find it curious that those who feel bullied would keep returning to a site that has offended them.

@Carol Are you saying that because something occurs every day in the larger society, that we should just leave it alone even if we think it is wrong? I guess I can’t believe you would say something like that (not that I know you), but is that what you mean, or is there some nuance I am missing?

I also wonder what you think fluther is. It sounds like you think it is an individual entity that can pander to various groups if it wants to. I don’t think that is a very accurate understanding. For me, fluther is a community, and decisions affecting all of us are strongly influenced by any consensus, such as is possible, that we all come to.

@wundayatta I don’t think that is a very accurate understanding. For me, fluther is a community, and decisions affecting all of us are strongly influenced by any consensus, such as is possible, that we all come to.
Could you elaborate on that or at least give an example? I’m having a little bit of trouble understanding how a consensus —if that is even possible— affect a community whose rules are pre-established when you sign up.

@Porifera At one point, we did not have the three question categories. People were having serious problems interpreting the rules. There was a proposal to split the questions into two and then three types (if I remember correctly). It was essentially proposed to have the system we have now.

There was a fairly lengthy discussion process where people had a chance to weigh in on the proposal and the effect they thought it would have. In the end, the owners of fluther decided to go with the new system. There wasn’t really a consensus, but it was my sense that more people were in favor of it than not (I was opposed).

I think the community got a chance to air their thoughts and to try to influence others. I did the best I could, but people didn’t agree. I warned about certain things that I think did come to pass. I boycotted the place for a while. But eventually I came back because it is good enough, and the changes are manageable for me.

There have been other public discussions, although none I can remember off the top of my head and none of the magnitude of the one I described. I think people who have not been around for a long time have less of a sense of the history of the place (duh), and this makes it difficult to know what has already been tried. A fluther history would be nice, especially if it was kind of a consensus effort. Kind of a wiki. I think such a thing may once have been set up by JohnPowell, but I don’t know if anyone used it.

@wundayatta Thank you. I see what you mean now. Love your impeccable tone. I saw @johnpowell‘s wiki some time I was browsing around but don’t think that really took off.

This HAS to be a first, somebody asking @wundayatta to elaborate! ~

How does people not giving out information equate to setting themselves up to get bullied?

Boy I’m thick these days :( What do you mean by people not giving out info? You mean those who don’t come out and say directly who is bullying them? Or were you referring to the comment before yours that was deleted.

@Porifera : It was a somewhat confused post by someone who keeps being banned and keeps coming back, so the comments get dumped as well.

@Porifera I was referring to the comment above mine that was deleted.

I keep thinking about this question, mostly because it was written, IMO, to rile people up.

It would be just as relevant to ask “Why are people feeling sexy on Fluther?

Or “Why do you feel you make friends in Fluther?” or the opposite

Why do some people feel they have enemies in Fluther?

The truth is none of us can ever know what anyone is “feeling” unless the person tells us.

Today I’m just feeling sweaty on Fluther.

@SpatzieLover Oh OK, I thought so, never got to see it before it was modded though. Maybe they don’t come out and say it because their calling out will be modded under the personal attack rule
I disagree with you a bit in that those Qs you list are of the same kind than this one because to feel sexy no one has to say anything directly to you for you to feel that way. To make friends is something positive that has to do with you and that person you want to befriend is a two-way agreement.
To make enemies also has to do with you and that person not liking eeach other and cutting ties or avoid each other; whereas feeling bullied has to do with someone abusing you and you not wanting a part of it whatsoever.

@JilltheTooth I know…isn’t sexy the WOTD*?

*Word of the Day

@Porifera ; I passed sexy about a gallon ago. Now I’m just kinda icky.

@bob_ You owe me half that lurve for your witticism! ;-)

@JilltheTooth I will not have you saying anything negative about my friend, @JilltheTooth! If you don’t stop, I’m going to have to hang you upside down from the top of the orange tree and drip fresh orange juice on you. So nyeh!

Don’t ask me why I said that. It was the first thing that came to mind.

@wundayatta @bob_ No way, half is mine for asking…
Let’s just divide it in 3 parts, but no way @bob_ is keeping all!!

Bullied? Most are close to being harassed. You should ask some of them and see why ^^

BTW nice and great question ^^

@Hibernate Bullied to one could just be harassment to another, any way, they (whom it is directed at) do not enjoy it much. ;-)

I know but nothing can be done to someone who’s a jerk. It’s all they know so they act according to what they are :P Better not pay to much attention.

@Hibernate I know but nothing can be done to someone who’s a jerk. Some people, even me at times, can come off as a jerk to someone. You think you are being helpful, but maybe you are to gruff and real with it, and someone’s feelings get hurt. Sometimes people just go after someone for what they said or who they seem to be and the perpetrator feels justified, because they feel the other person is a racist, liberal, homophobe, zealot, chauvinist, etc.

The trick I try to use when engaging anyone is I imagine the other person is the banker I need a loan from to safe the family farm. You would not go before that person showing your ass. You would not say to the effect, ”What!? You are charging me f****** 15%!? Did your mama raise you stupid? I should close my f****** account and take my GD business to your competitors down the block. I bet they will get me under 8% interest, not try to rip me off like you SOBs”. You might feel you were in the right, but you go in there acting a fool, you will leave with no loan.

Even when people come at me with BS that I am following a faith that is equal to belief in the Easter Bunny, boogie man, Santa, or unicorns I will rebuke it, but I will rebuke it outside of the gutter, no need for me to go down there in the sewage too.

Maybe it’s because I keep beating them with a baseball bat, I dunno…

@WillWorkForChocolate Lmao XD

I thought you kept hitting people with your shovel? You use a baseball bat too? @Auggie, can we get @WillWorkForChocolate some anger management therapy STAT! [Backs away from the computer carefully…watching @WillWorkForChocolate‘s every move.]

@Bellatrix She personally whacked me a few times with a rattan cane. I hobbled away when she went for the pollaxe.

@Bellatrix What @Hypocrisy_Central is not telling you is that I whacked him with the rattan cane AFTER he stole my shovel. And I’ve already tried anger management therapy, but I killed the therapist I quit.

@WillWorkForChocolate Lol you’re fulla laughs today. :D

So @Hypocrisy_Central was actually helping you @WillWorkForChocolate by taking your shovel to bury the therapist?

@Bellatrix Oh no…...I was going to use the shovel to beat down some poor noob who left a dangling participle in his sentence. Then I told him he did it because he was a redacted, and he ran off screaming never to come back here again with us mean, mean people. ;-P

You know that sparkly whip that Auggie shows us from time to time? Where do you think she got it? <cough> Chocolate <cough>

@Bellatrix No, @Hypocrisy_Central stole my shovel as a prank. After I beat him senseless with the cane, I located my shovel and put it back on my patio, where it’s close at hand for future snake massacres.

@JilltheTooth But hey, didn’t I pick out a pretty one for her? I love that whip! I’m just sad that she hasn’t used it on me…

I grinned as she beat me with it!

<—- Jealous!

You suck.

Is it really bullying if you enjoy it that much?

No, no, @Adirondackwannabe , it’s the flogging we enjoy. The bullying, not so much.

If you enjoy being bullied I think they call you a masochist, but only if you like being bullied in the bedroom or dungeon. If you like being bullied in the workplace, school yard, etc. I don’t know what they call you. Victim or mark, maybe?

Lol, dungeon.

Flutheronians? – I was just getting used to being larvae.