Social Question

Nimis's avatar

Have any men lost to women in a traditionally male-dominated activity?

Asked by Nimis (13225points) August 18th, 2011 from iPhone

What was it?
How did you react?
Would it have been easier losing to a male?

Women: Have you lost to men in a traditionally female-dominated activity?

Inspired by this question.

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68 Answers

Nimis's avatar

My husband is a way better cook than I am.
All I’ve got to say about that is Thank goodness.

PS I do think it’s much easier to lose to a male in a traditionally-female activity. It’s funny that one is breaking stereotypes Yay! and the other is considered emasculating Boo!. (It really shouldn’t be.)

rebbel's avatar

Tickling.
If I get angry about the defeat, she’ll tickle me again.

Londongirl's avatar

It is a matter of flexibility and compatibility of a couple…

Adirondackwannabe's avatar

There was the time I was in bed with a woman and her, unknown to me until then, lesbian lover burst through the door and dragged her out of the bed and took her away. I shook my head, laughed and had a beer.

Blackberry's avatar

Yeah, but I was never offended.

ucme's avatar

The wife regularly beats me in an arm wrestle, only at a certain time of the month though.
Shit, you’d think i’d have learned by now!

Cruiser's avatar

A girl I dated in college was a scratch golfer and KMA everytime we played. I was very cool with getting my a$$ kicked in golf by a gorgeous lady like her.

marinelife's avatar

Well, there was Billie Jean King.

YoBob's avatar

Well, the whole concept of male-dominated activity is pretty darned nebulous these days. However, to answer the question, I have been out fenced by more than a couple of female fencers. Frankly, I considered it an honor to have the opportunity to have my ass handed to me by some of those highly skilled young women.

Nimis's avatar

@marinelife Oops. Not the question I was intending to ask. (My fault for not specifying actual jellies.) GA nonetheless.

ucme's avatar

On a wider scale Danica Patrick has been racing her male counterparts in Indycars for a number of years. If I remember correctly, she’s yet to win a race, but she certainly holds her own.

Pied_Pfeffer's avatar

A couple of years ago, I challenged my brother to a leg wrestling contest. Note that he runs daily and that I don’t work out and am a few pounds overweight. I flipped his body right over. He didn’t take it lightly and challenged me for a second round. Same result. Out of respect for his bruised ego, I don’t bring it up.

JilltheTooth's avatar

My Dad was 6’3” and very strong. I’m 5’1” on a real good day when they’ve turned down the gravity. He used to expect me to be able to do just about anything he could; he used to say: “A man’s job is something that requires the use of a penis. Don’t tell me why you can’t, tell me how you can.” As a result, it never occured to me to “respect” the traditional role boundaries. I saw it out in the world, I never bought into it. Does this in any way answer that? I really miss my Dad!

incendiary_dan's avatar

@JilltheTooth I’ve never met your father, but I miss him now too. I’ve wanted to get sayings like that made into bumper stickers for a while.

josie's avatar

Yes. I played a round of golf with a woman who was REALLY good. I am not that good. It was a long day.

Bill_Lumbergh's avatar

Yes, foreplay! (Although, this is highly debatable as a “male-dominated” activity)

lucillelucillelucille's avatar

Gee,I would gladly lose any cooking,laundry folding,sock darning or wringing my hands in frustration competition. ;)

Nimis's avatar

@JilltheTooth Your dad sounds awesome. I’m definitely going to quote him on that.

@lucillelucillelucille
Wringing my hands in frustration competition. Ha.
PS Totally read that as sock folding.

Jude's avatar

Haha. I love you, Lucy!

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

I do want to point out that I think women are sometimes more gracious about having men ‘win’ at activities traditionally thought of as for women than vice versa. Women are okay with men being better cooks or doing more around the house but men (some, not all) are less okay with women being the sole breadwinner, with not taking sufficient parental leave when children come into play, etc. There is always more talk about ‘bruising the male ego’ than there is talk about bruising that of a woman (presumably, because her ego is always bruised, given our society). More men are worried about being ‘emasculated’ and more women worry about having such an effect on their men than women or their men are worried about a woman being less feminine in her activity. All of this interests me greatly because it reflects that while women have (to some extent) been okayed by society to enter into usually male-dominated fields, men haven’t felt that doing femal-y type things is just as valuable. Finally, I know that many women (who are defensive and perhaps rightfully so, given that the domestic sphere has been given to them to own) are upset when they think that a man can be just as good a parent, a stay at home dad, and do that voluntarily and with joy. I know my husband faced the wrath of many such women when he was a stay at home parent because men (thought women do want men in their lives to ‘help out more’ or whatever) just aren’t welcome to be an equal to a mother. Which, I think, blows.

Nimis's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir I agree. The double standard definitely blows.

Sorry to hear about your husband. Maybe the bay area is just more progressive, but most of the stay-at-home fathers here are generally well-received and well-respected by the stay-at-home moms. I think it makes them feel validated to have a member of the opposite sex really know what it’s like to do what they do.

Pandora's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir That is true but women can certainly be extremely competitive with each other. They will take defeat from a male a lot easier than from another woman, in this area.
I think if a guy cooks the same thing and everyone says they like it, than the female will bow gracefully to him because in her mind, he was just lucky and it was a fluke.
If a female loses to another female, than she feels her abilities is in question. Is she really a better cook? (unless its someone she really admires)
Just using cooking as an example because I have several female relatives who you can tell get pist off when someone asks another relative to cook them something because they cook it best.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@Pandora Interesting addition to the discussion, for sure. I do think this further connects to what I said about being really defensive about the very small sphere of domesticity allotted to women. If this is the one thing they re to be inevitably good at, then they’re going to be the best at it. Thus, we get more importance infused into domesticity than there is worth because there is simply nothing else expected of women. Motherhood and being a good wife are still virtues rather than options even though many many people have gotten out of that mindset.

Nimis's avatar

@Pandora Hmmmm…maybe it’s not just about losing to the opposite sex.
Maybe it’s about losing to the opposite sex when you think you’re good at something?
Couldn’t care less about losing in cooking to either gender. Not that good at it to begin with.
But the guy who huffed off when I beat him in a pool tournament thought that he was really good.
Maybe in another situation (where he didn’t think he was that good), he could have lost more gracefully?

WestRiverrat's avatar

My girlfriend is a better shot than I am. I think it is great.

john65pennington's avatar

In 1965, I melted when my wife blinked her baby blue eyes at me and smiled.

She had me hook, line and sinker. I think she knew it, too.

Pied_Pfeffer's avatar

@john65pennington That doesn’t answer the question. From what I’ve read from your posts, both you and your wife have led a life of traditional roles, while still others paint her as a woman who will challenge your opinions. Was there something other than her eyes and smile that drew you to her and kept your marriage going all of these years?

Londongirl's avatar

I honestly don’t see what wrong people lead the traditional roles, I’m one of the supporter…

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@Londongirl – they’re not for everyone, that’s what’s wrong with them.

Londongirl's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir I know, everyone has their own cup of tea…

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@Londongirl – Indeed. So, after all, you do see what’s wrong with people being expected to lead lives with traditional roles because you know not everyone likes the same tea. If they do lead lives with traditional roles that they have voluntarily so chosen, well that’s their lives and they can do so. If you want to be a ‘traditional woman’, there are plenty of supporters you’ll find.

filmfann's avatar

Billie Jean King/Bobby Riggs came to mind immediately.

Londongirl's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir I think in this modern day we cannot be totally traditional, but I do value some traditional values and I think it is good to be flexible between the couple.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@Londongirl – some people respond to ‘modern day’ by being ‘more traditional than traditional’ believe you me so there are many ways people reinforce tradition and create new traditions to reinforce the old gender divide (this happens in many Muslim countries when there’s fear of loss of power or threat of the West, sexism gets concentrated and the Qu’ran is interepreted in a much more severe way towards women even if there is no history of the kind of practices people place on them now from before)...buuuut, that’s neither here nor there. Do what you think is right, that’s all I can tell you.

incendiary_dan's avatar

“Modern” doesn’t exist. It’s a perceptual trope.

Londongirl's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir I am not talking about sexisim practising in certain religious groups. I am talking about traditional sense in modern western societies. It really depends on individual values and their believe. Some people like traditional value or mixed, and some prefer more feminisim values. It all depends on individual choice really.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@Londongirl I admitted above that my comment wasn’t integral to my conversation with you. Sexism, however, exists in all cultures, just to clarify.

incendiary_dan's avatar

@LondongirlIt all depends on individual choice really.

Which is a pretty big feminist value. :)

incendiary_dan's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir What about the Mbuti? Yea, whipping out my anthro knowledge. :P

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@incendiary_dan – what abt them? I vaguely remember something about forests and peace. I want you to tell me all the ways in which they are perfectly egalitarian, since you know more. And what are some of the ways they have adjusted to intrusion of sexist values from other cultures. @Londongirl – most cultures.

FutureMemory's avatar

@Londongirl Is English your first language?

Uberwench's avatar

I took a first-aid/basic nursing class that was about 70% women and 30% men. Not only was I not particularly great at it, one guy was clearly more adept than everyone else in the class. He went on to be an actual nurse. I went on to buy health insurance.

Jude's avatar

@FutureMemory I’m thinking, no.

Londongirl's avatar

@FutureMemory Would you treat me differently if I told you English wasn’t my first language? hypothetically speaking.

FutureMemory's avatar

Sometimes it’s a little difficult to follow what you’re saying because of the mistakes you make. Your typing style is very similar to someone that learned English as a second language. I’m just curious :) I’m not trying to discourage you from posting. If English is your first language, I would encourage you to be a little more careful.

Londongirl's avatar

@FutureMemory Are you the MOD here Future?

FutureMemory's avatar

Fluther has about a dozen mods, but I am not one of them. I’m sure any of them would be happy to direct you to the page that details the writing standards that we are expected to follow though. Or I can. I guess I just did, actually :)

poisonedantidote's avatar

I was once kicked in the head by a karate girl so hard that I literally saw stars. It was not exactly like a cartoon, just little points of light in my field of vision that when I looked at them they vanished or moved. I would say Karate in it’s sport form is traditionally dominated by men.

Ippon!

Londongirl's avatar

@FutureMemory OK thanks for directing me.

@poisonedantidote Yes, karate is traditionally men sport. Same as many bloody sports on earth that originally created for men!!! :)

incendiary_dan's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir They’re a neat group to study, in that they don’t have gendered pronouns and completely fluid gender roles. Many of their games even reinforce the fluidity of gender.

King_Pariah's avatar

I lost to a girl in wrestling…. in my defense, she was a national level wrestler and I was sick (I puked out my guts both before and after that match)... I still feel emasculated….

Hibernate's avatar

@Nimis I am sorry to inform you but the best cooks are males. If you take a look at restaurants you’ll see most chefs are males. And while I’m here let me explain a bit. Families nowdays need 1 member to provide and another to do the house chores. If both provide then they hire help around the house. Maybe half a century ago the cooking and cleaning was considered a female job and was dominated by them but not today.
80% of the chefs and masters chefs are males. The hired help doesn’t matter what sex it is. I never understood it though I have a degree in cooking and I worked at a restaurant.

Anyway since I never took time to improve my skills in a particular domain I have moderate skills in most activities. I wouldn’t be offended if the SO would be better [we are here to complete ourselves]. If I’d loose to another woman it wouldn’t bother me since I can’t possibly know how much time she invests in that particular activity or if she likes that so much she became so good.

I forgot to add that I could care less if I win or loose. My life it’s about only winning. I just enjoy any activity I can do with someone else though I mostly preffer to do mine alone so I wouldn’t be an issue for others.

MRSHINYSHOES's avatar

No, I can’t think of any.

rooeytoo's avatar

I love to beat males in tennis.

I also love to beat females in tennis.

Competitive people hate to lose. But probably the males hated losing to a 5’ tall female more than the females did.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@Hibernate Simply because men are at the top of some field in which both genders participate doesn’t mean they’re the best at that field. It just means patriarchy has a wide reach.

Hibernate's avatar

Okay. Let’s take it as you explain it. How come the most cooking books were wrote by men? How come the best chefs [from tv/restaurants] are men? THis was just an example here. I do not consider myself as the best cook yet when it comes to cooking I prefer my SO to cook just because this way I can tease her.

@rooeytoo indeed most people who compete hate loosing. That’s why my favorite sports are sports where women and man aren’t allowed to compete each other :) Long live sumo.

people should enjoy doing a sport just for the fun of it not for the winnings.

Uberwench's avatar

@MRSHINYSHOES Good contribution. Try thinking harder.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@Hibernate Men get more book deals, disproportionately. Across every field where both genders write.

Hibernate's avatar

Oh well this might be true. I never looked when it came to book writing and getting them published.

WestRiverrat's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir Even Harelquin romance?

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@WestRiverrat I mean fields that are not gender-specific (on purpose) – the romance books (if they can be called that) have always mostly been written by women to cater to a specific idea. I actually don’t know about that gendre in particular.

incendiary_dan's avatar

“Gendre” sounds like a cool mix-up word between genre and gender.

Why do you think J.K. Rowling didn’t use her first name when publishing fantasy novels?

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@incendiary_dan Lol, ‘freudian’ slip…man, I must have issues.

MRSHINYSHOES's avatar

@Uberwench Thank you.

Yeah, nothing like that has ever happened to me because I always win.

Pied_Pfeffer's avatar

@MRSHINYSHOES I’m like your wife. I always let my husband win, too.

augustlan's avatar

<Challenges @MRSHINYSHOES to arm wrestle.>

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