Is Fluther essentially a segregated club, without actually saying so?

Your second assertion isn’t clear to me and the groups you then lump together aren’t representative of any particular group. Therefore, it’s kind of hard to accept that there is another group that is privileged by virtue of some intrinsic flaw in Fluther. I also don’t think you know what group-think means. The point is, this isn’t the way to tease out why you feel bitter about some of your recent interactions.

Everyone can be made to feel like a party crasher by other members. Some just complain about it more. I fit into 2½ of your groups, but I’ve never felt segregated because of it.

Newsflash: you can’t ask insanely uninformed/ignorant/possibly racist questions without raising some eyebrows.

It bothers me that you don’t even seem to have any problems with the way you ask questions.

I’m on another website that is mostly conservatives. Every week there’s another thread with some conspiracy theorist trying to get Obama impeached.

I don’t whine and cry when I see a bunch of people calling liberals names and making fun of blacks on welfare. I debate with people because I like doing it. It’s just a website and there’s millions more.

I’m tired of this discussion coming up. Maybe it’s true, maybe it isn’t, maybe it isn’t any different than any other group on the internet where people have frequented for a long time and gotten to know one another. Or maybe not unlike any other group in the real world. Maybe it is. Who gives a shit.

Natural selection.

Yes we tend to exclude assholes and idiots, there are exceptions though. :D

This has come up a lot lately and I want to go on record.

I joined on may 28th. In that time, I have met several nice people who I now consider friends. Some of them are members with 20k pts. who have been here for years. Most people are pretty nice to me, and I ask a question almost every night, some of which are on sensitive topics.

I just write out what I am thinking. Then I say, “Am I being a dick here?”. If I am, I delete it.

Half the time I am drunk, and mispell. I still rarely have a problem.

Condescended? Insulted? I would not go as far as saying it does not happen at alI. It does. But I don’t think in such severity as to feel persecuted and that would be an exaggeration to say so. Just like any face to face conversations out there, you can defend your case here and call out real bad behavior. Fluther is not exactly Winnie the Pooh’s honey yard.

I’m a Christian and I feel accepted here. I think that the reason is that I don’t Feel the need to recruit everyone else to my faith and I truly respect those with other faiths (or non faiths.)
I guess people who spew hate are discriminated against and I’m alright with that.

I am a vegan, a non-drinker and an old lady and I feel welcome, even though this puts me into three different minorities.

@gailcalled Hey! I’m vegan and a non-drinker too!

When it becomes a segregated club I am out of here.

Hey, I’m insanely wealthy and yet I get lots of lurve here!

Also, I think that non-drinkers have every right to eat their liquids!

Hey, I like cheese and wine, and all of the posters above. How about that.

@gailcalled You’re ooold? Well, there’s nothing wrong with that but I’m starting a petition to encourage you to start drinking. : )

@Incoherency_

“Hey, I’m insanely wealthy and yet I get lots of lurve here!”

I think you’re confusing being insanely wealthy with having a wealth of insanity.
Re the lots of lurve: I’m sure many are chafing at the bit to throw you a 0.5K party. ~

@Brian1946

Ah, so much cyber bravado from the looser who had to borrow money from me to use one of the discarded works of J Fred Muggs as his avatard!

@saint People who can argue cogently for a cause, whether it be free market economics, climate change as a conspiracy, or ancient aliens building the wonders of the world all get treated pretty well here. They may not win very many converts, but they don’t get dissed.

Those who hold views just because they hold them, and want to cram their unfounded beliefs down others throats by a long series of logically fallacious arguments don’t fare well. Natural selection seems to have brought a cadre of intelligent, incisive writers together here. Like @Blackberry, I participate on another social Q&A site, Sodahead.com, where anyone who believes in evidence based conclusions is at constant risk of attack, ostracism and outright banning. There, any outrageous claim that discredits Obama, Democrats or the left is instantly pushed to the top of the leader board.

Yes. I’ve been told if you don’t like zombies you need to gtfo.

Group-Think?! You must be joking.

@Brian1946

“I think you’re confusing being insanely wealthy with having a wealth of insanity.”

Oh yeah?! Well I’ll show you!

@Incoherency_

WTF? Hey, cut that out!

What happened to your avatar?

Oh dear lord.

Don’t make me ban you! Damnit!! ~

This isn’t funny you guys!

Why is George Bush suddenly showing up in avatars? Lol.

This is now a segregated club- no sane people allowed!

I’m confused.

and people think I’m nuts when I say…“That person is not a newb”

@SpatzieLover I don’t!

Show me the birth certificate, Spatzie!

So…. food is great.

[Mod Says]: This is a serious question posted by Saint. Please refrain from turning it into a joke at the asker’s expense. Please stick to the topic or move on to the next question. Thanks!

Hands at @everephebe a platter

@saint Keep an eye on some of the jokers above. You may witness Fluther style natural selection at work if they refuse to take the moderator’s not-to-subtle hint.

It’s basically a Gay, Jewish club without saying so.

I thought this was a Catholic, Homeschool, Moms club. I also thought most users were Aspies

@saint I find your lack of faith [in fluther] disturbing.
id est, “this bickering is pointless…”

The wizard hijacked my avatar!!!!

@SpatzieLover Aspies, Star Trek geeks – that goes without saying.

Now I DO look crazy. The spell must have worn off.

Sorry @Saint. I didn’t see @Dog ‘s comment. Didn’t mean to go comic on your thread. Please forgive.

At no time in the past three years have I seen an improvement in Fluther follow from complaints about groupthink, accusations of conspiracies, or attempts to define who’s “Us” and who’s “Them” among members.

@Jeruba I could not agree more. I am getting disgusted and, quite frankly, sorry I returned.

I see nothing wrong in choosing to associate with people who tend to agree with you. I know I would feel very uncomfortable on a site that exclusively held beliefs and behaviors opposite to mine. I’d go elsewhere. There must be sites where people are encouraged to verbally argue and fight mightily to defend their points of view, but that’s not here necessarily. Here, people seem to be uncomfortable when things become ugly and combative. Discussion or debate should not ever dissolve into vitriol. Is there a site that has debate, with all the debating rules?
Is there a list of social sites and what each represents?

@ETpro That sodahead website is off the deep end. I’m going to join it lol.

@Sunny2 I agree with the point that debate should steer clear of vitriol, but I disagree about avoiding that possibility by sticking with those who echo my own attitudes and opinions. Clearly I wouldn’t remain on Sodahead.com if I felt that way. I think far too many of those who @saint enumerates as the oppressed minorities here are guilty of the thought process you mention, which we might call inbreeding or preaching to the choir. The problem with it is how are you going to identify areas where your own thinking is wrong if you exclusively listen to people who say you’re right? I think healthy dissent, informed dissent, is a very good thing. On Sodahead, many of the right-wing respondents answer only with argument by assertion, ad hominems and/or circular logic, They fall victim to a host of other logical fallacies as well, but those are the big 3.

I will make an attempt to engage them in real debate. It’s rare that it works, though. Most are incapable of grasping logic at even its most elementary level. They only parrot talking points their handlers feed them.

@Blackberry. Word up. I thought for sure that’s the site you were talking about. If you join, be sure to send me a friend request. :-)

Well..if you don’t like geese, happy brownies and good humor, you can’t play in my sandbox!

The Internet is more heavily frequented by those of the Left, that’s all.
It’s not always easy, and they can pick on you something fierce sometimes, but you do get to meet a lot of interesting people.
If it’s any consolation to you, I’m a Christian, conservative moderated free marketeer who doesn’t mind the Rich, who will sometimes criticize Obama, raise the a skeptical brow to global warming, rather likes the 10nth Amendment believers, does not like careless spellers and sloppy punctuators, likes Fox for its less-than-liberal angles, is a moral objectivist, and other things.

Oh God. Is this seriously just another “conservatives and Christians are so persecuted” post? Because that’s what it looks like… :\

@DominicX Well, we kind of are. Most of us don’t really complain about it.

Really, though, the OP is talking about representation, and the possibility of subtle enforcement.

@Coloma Humor is almost exclusively about ridiculing people in their awkward moments. :\

So you want socialism of political views here?

@Nullo Well, there’s no doubt that most people here are Left-leaning. We establish that 50 times a month…of course what I see is a lot of people playing martyr and using “persecution” as a cop out.

@DominicX I imagine that you would; harassment can look different on the other side.

Nullo, do you know DominicX is a male and gay college student? Pretty sure he has already gone through more harassment than you ever will.

@Nullo

And it’ll come as no surprise to me if you or no one else provides me an example of such harassment. Mostly what I see when it comes to so-called “harassment” and “persecution” is simply a disagreement. Disagreement isn’t harassment and disagreement isn’t persecution.

@johnpowell As a matter of fact, I do
@DominicX I’ll send you a link to the next instance that I find, then.

@Nullo Fair enough. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen; it’s just that some (maybe most) of what I’ve seen are people erroneously assuming that they’ll be “persecuted” for having a non-mainstream belief (and no such thing happens) or someone taking a disagreement as an attack.

Do we really need another divisive question at the moment? Can’t we all just get along? I am so tired.

What’s wrong with being a Libertarian and if it is a Gay Jewish Club surely they would be Libertarians?

We also like scrabble.

I belive It is not Fluther it is society that is segregated.

I’ve observed the weekend’s shenanigans regarding this non issue, but kept away for fear of flying shrapnel. Therefore, as always, I remain as fresh as a daisy, so I will add only this.
“I don’t want to belong to any club that will accept me as a member!” Groucho Marx.
There is no “club” & if there were, you can count me out buster, for i’m an individual….so there! :¬)

@ucme May I join you? I have my daisy in hand.

@worriedguy If you want, yeah.

@ucme What about a club that won’t accept you as a member and you need to sneak in?

A curious observation. Maybe not segregated but defiantly fractured. As you have alluded to, there are many groups, subgroups, and groups that crossover, and overlap. Some groups, who are short on numbers, seem to get maligned or shut down, at least they try, more than others.

I think some of the groups that are more discriminated on in the non-Fluther world overcompensate here because they have the numbers. Their understanding and compassion is not all they believe it to be. Many of what they accuse ”those out there” of doing they do also, be it they may not realize it.

It is just an online Q&A site, but many take it way too personal. Some get snippy and snide, other just quit. It is one thing to disagree and another to get nasty and rude about it. It is like football, if you can’t take a hard hit without wanting to throw blows, maybe you should not suit up. People say all the time here is suppose to be, or strives to be, better than AB, YA, and the others. Grammar czars don’t make it better just because everyone has there ‘I’s before their ‘E’s, except after their ‘C’s.

Fluther has a voice, an unofficial voice, but one just the same. We in the Lagoon are far from being group-thinkers. Though, if you thought like the greater majority you get to the perks or Atta boys better and sooner.

@talljasperman That sounds suspiciously like an exercise in futility, but hey…..

No, it’s not essentially a segregated group. There are a few users who occasionally make it a point to deliberately poke at certain “groups”, just to cause drama. That being said, aside from a handful of jellies, I lurve everyone here, even if we do have a difference of opinion on certain subjects.

I have a lot of respect and lurve for tons of jellies, including atheists, vegans, liberals, etc… Just because we don’t agree with each other’s beliefs does not mean that we can’t still be friends.

I, too, have been upset by some of the more vicious posts against Christians, republicans and carnivores, but I can usually separate their views from who they are as people. Usually. There are always exceptions.

I do see that Fluther is far more liberal and more likely to irk me sometimes, but for the most part, I do not see it as “segregated”, just a lot of people with different ideas and beliefs.

Recently, there’s been a lot of discontent and people posting redundant questions about the site itself, and it’s getting annoying. If you’re going to be a member here, what you have to do is look past the people who irritate you and remember all the people you appreciate. Admittedly, I have to remind myself to do that quite frequently, but despite the anger I’ve felt at some of the “persecution” and unwarranted attacks, there are many jellies whom I admire and love to interact with.

If you can’t find that balance, you will not enjoy your time here.

TL;DR- It’s not segregated; there are just many different opinions that you either can or cannot accept. Find a happy place here and stick with it.

From what I’ve seen here, the people who are most likely to get pigeon-holed are those who are here with an agenda or have some kind of ideological flag constantly flying. If the community only gets to see a couple of dimensions of a user—because everything he has to say seems to be about this political position or that belief system—then the other users naturally start to see him as an one- or two-dimensional icon representing those ideologies. They then treat him according to how they feel about those ideologies. That’s a very human thing to do, and yes, it happens on Fluther.

But what I’ve also seen here is that when a user doesn’t restrict his interactions here to those ideological issues, but shows the other dimensions of himself to the community, then people start to see him not as “the libertarian”, or “the Christian”, but as a human being in all his complexity. It’s much harder to dismiss a person who has shared something of his life with you than it is to dismiss an ideological position.

When @Judi ‘s avatar pops up, I don’t think “Oh, there’s the Christian. I wonder what she’s going to say about Christianity now”. I think, “Oh there’s Judi. Judi’s a beautiful person”.

@thorninmud, thanks. Made me cry. one never really knows how they’re perceived by others.

@thorninmud After @Judi posted about that hi-tech bathroom gadget the other day, instead of thinking of her now as the beautiful well spoken lady being hugged from behind by a guy, I see her now as the lady with the enviable bathroom seat, my backside wiggling.

Wow. My toilet gives me status :-)

No. Let’s see… I’m an Atheist, carnivore, half liberal in favor of women’s choice, Concealed Carry permits, Obama, drug testing for workers and welfare recipients, changes in the sex offender laws, National Health care, and everyone being held responsible for their own actions.

And they still let me in here.

Seriously! Who could ever be mad at @Judi. Come on! Hey Judi, does the above comment mean you have a Toto washlet? Please tell me quickly. My posterior is quivering with anticipation.

Better. The Toto Neorest 600 with a built in washlet

@Judi Can I come over to your house some day? I really want to use your toilet :D

I had a full up Toto unit in Japan. Heated seats, adjustable water pressure and temperature, air dry memory setting. Oh! And the vent took air from under the seat and piped it outdoors without using a ceiling fan. I never wanted to leave the bathroom.

I call “Party at @Judi ‘s!”

@saint Does this thread appear to be segregated to you?

I have to say, I wonder what everyone is on. I find my self more in agreement with the asker than not. Is it not blatantly obvious that certain kinds of oppinions get stomped out quite fast here?

Please don’t make me pretend to be a creationist in the general section to prove my point.

I don’t think it’s at all as bad as the asker would have us believe, but I do think there is some truth there.

Look at @Nullo for example, how many people do we have that share the same ideas on theology? there are not many, I have seen some, but they don’t tend to stick arround. On the other hand, I’m sure I could find quite a few atheists on here that share a lot with my own brand of atheism.

If someone comes on the site and starts asking racist questions, not only will they get jumped on, but they would probably be banned also. Now, I’m no racist, but surely the way we deal with such things is evidence that the site is not 100% impartial.

Singing….We are the woooorld, we are the children…..

Pow wow in the sweat lodge at Colomas, funny animal masks mandatory, loin cloths optional.

@poisonedantidote, I don’t think anyone would disagree that some opinions get stomped out quite fast here. But see @everephebe‘s response above:

Yes we tend to exclude assholes and idiots, there are exceptions though. :D

I think that hit the nail on the head. Yes, when people come in here saying things that are ignorant, illogical, or offensive, the community tends to react very negatively toward them. It is not the community’s fault if those questions tend to have a lot of overlap with, say, Republicans and global warming deniers.

@nikipedia True.

btw… just general fyi for all… I’m well aware I’m one of the bigger culprits.

I find myself very much in agreement with @thorninmud. If someone only presents themselves one- or two-dimensionally, then one can only be interacted with along those dimensions. That is a form of self-segregation. On the other hand, I doubt many people could correctly say how I self-identify politically or religiously without looking it up. The one-dimensionalists probably think they know where each one of us stands, since they tend to define others in terms of disagreement (“I’m a liberal, so everyone who disagrees with my politics is a conservative” or “I’m a Christian, so everyone who disagrees with my religious views is a heathen”); but reality is more complicated than that.

@poisonedantidote No, it is not blatantly obvious that certain opinions get “stomped out” here. As far as I can tell, the conservatives are still conservatives and the theists are still theists. They might face greater opposition, but that is not the same thing as being stomped out. The fact that a lot of people believe X and will disagree with the few that believe not-X does not mean that the opinions are stomped out. It is attitudes—like belligerence or foolishness—that get stomped out, not opinions.

As for partiality, yes: the site has rules that are more stringent than “anything goes.” I suppose that’s partiality. We don’t allow spam, we don’t allow trolling, and we don’t allow hate speech. But partiality is not the same thing as partisanship.

Sorry if this seems like splitting hairs, but I think the difference is relevant.

@mazingerz88: Be my guest, but your energy would be better spent elsewhere. I come from a family who seem to be allergic to alcohol…no ideology here, only the desire for a happy GI tract.

I remember, in my twenties, having a small glass of sherry (disgusting) on an empty stomach and having to be carried home to bed and a 12 hour stupor.

@SavoirFaire I’ll PM you in a week or so with a link to the next creationist question. I have 20 bucks that say the asker will be cleverly mocked within the first 5 answers.

Now all I have to do is wait for the next cerationist question, make sure I mock them withing the first 5 answers, and I will double my money. Muahahahahaha

@poisonedantidote I didn’t say people aren’t mocked. I said their opinions are not stomped out. These are different things. When the creationists are mocked, it is because their arguments are terrible. If someone came with a good argument for the view, they’d be taken seriously. Disagreed with, yes, but not mocked for poor logic. Maybe some people would prove incorrigible, but not the community at large.

So thanks, I could use $20.

@SavoirFaire Ahh yes, but mockery is often used to “stomp out” oppinions, cults do it all the time, so do many other organizations and groups.

Maybe we are operating under different definitions here, but to me “stomped out” is an appropriate descriptions of what happens some times. It is very difficult to hold certain oppinions some times, here and other places, without being made to know that said oppinions are not welcome.

The response these oppinions get is not always just debate, some times, the blunt responses, sarcasm, and mockery on mass, makes it seem like the idea is being stomped out so to speak.

It’s also easy to ask a question, and get so many critical responses, that you just cant keep up. Almost like a TV station getting nuked with snail mail complaints after showing something people did not like. There is a pile-it-on effect, that can help “stomp out” the oppinion, by making such questions too hard of a job. Try bashing the police for something they did, and you will soon find your self typing as fast as you can to keep up.

I would like to reply to this thread as a Fluther vet who was recently involved in a very spirited discussion about theism vs. atheism. In this particular thread I was arguing the minority point and even when things got their most heated, I did not feel on the outside or as though The Collective was trying to boot me for holding different beliefs. Not only that but several who vehemently argued the opposite position sent personal notes apologizing for what they saw as the beating I took in that thread. Did I feel segregated? No. I was bummed when some decided to take cheap shots, but I consider that a reflection on them, not me.

From Dictionary.com: segregate: to separate or set apart from others or from the main body or group; isolate: to require, often with force, the separation of (a specific racial, religious, or other group) from the general body of society.

Yeah, no I don’t see that going on here on Fluther. It is a question and answer site, and some questions are designed to promote debate. When answering questions designed to promote debate most will argue their point of view. It is probably not a coincidence that there are several areas where my point of view is in line with other members of Fluther and it is certainly not a coincidence that there are times it does not.

In my time here I have seen numerous new members come and go and lots of great folks stick around. I have also seen people sweep in, complain about the way things are done, get angry because the entire site and its guidelines are not adjusted at their whim, stir up as much animosity as possible, then sweep out just as fast. That is not cool. It has been my experience that those who ask great questions and give great answers – whether they are in line with the majority beliefs or not – are consistently welcome with open arms and are very well lurved.

…and yes, I do appreciate proper spelling and grammar. Like it or not if one wants to be taken seriously, one must present oneself in a proper manner. On a site such as this, where communication is written, that means making sure writing is of the utmost quality in order for it to be properly understood and interpreted. I don’t think it is ok to call out bad grammar publicly as part of a thread but I do support flagging it every single time.

@poisonedantidote: Do you still believe in a flat earth or a dome overhead with holes poked in it? If someone presented those views here as being plausible, would you be willing to debate (perhaps for a very long time)?

@poisonedantidote Yes, I think we may be using different definitions. If someone still holds an opinion, it hasn’t been stomped out. And if they’re still voicing it, it definitely hasn’t been stomped out. Let’s take your own example of @Nullo: I hardly see him as having been silenced. If he had been, we wouldn’t know to use him as an example! What I see opposition to more than anything else is poor argumentation.

Nor am I convinced that any opinions are unwelcome here, even if they are disagreed with vociferously at times. It’s not anyone’s fault that the pile-up effect occurs. Everyone has a right to respond, and sometimes all (or most) of the responses will be disagreement. Ask a controversial question, expect a lot of responses. But honestly, there are too many people here who just like to argue for them to genuinely want those who disagree to go away.

@gailcalled No, I would mock them.

I have actually attempted to have a debate with a flat earther, and it just can’t be done.

@SavoirFaire quit stomping out my opinion!!! lol.

I think we probably agree on more than we realize, I’m not actually accusing fluther of planning anything, it’s just the way it has worked out, the same way it works out most places. I was just pointing it out, and saying…. “erm yea.. actually, there is a phenomenon”.

Where in the hell have I been? Missin’ out on all of the drama (which I hate). It’s the internet, people.

Working in a mental hospital, I was told never to argue with a delusion. If a patient said he was waiting for a train to Duluth, you just went along with it. Perhaps if we could react to people with (to us) obviously strange thoughts with gently probing questions instead of blatant attacks, everybody would feel more welcome. It takes a lot of patience, but it’s kind of interesting to hear what is going on in the head of someone who is deluded. One patient told me he was going to marry a colleague of mine. He was due to be released the following week. I told his psychiatrist and two days later, the delusion was gone. I asked the psychiatrist how he did that. He said he told the fellow she had VD. He was being funny, but I certainly couldn’t shake the patient of his belief.

@Jude You hate missing it?

@poisonedantidote : So, it’s ok to pick the groups you insult or condescend to?

A question is only as good as the discussion it inspires. I have enjoyed this one. So thanks everybody for the comments. Here are points for your trouble. I will check back occasionally to catch up.

@gailcalled I’m not actually trying to change anything, I came in and saw everyone acting like they had no idea what @saint was talking about, and simply pointed out that it happens.

As for mockery, insults and groups, I have to say I have no problem with mockery, sarcasm, insults or any of it. I’m not actually trying to condemn anyone for it, just pointing out it happens.

@poisonedantidote:

Ah. Personally, I would shun or send to Coventry any in the sub-group of those who use mockery, sarcasm and insults in place of debating skills.

@saint;

It might be considered bad form to ask an interesting question that does trigger an intelligent debate and then leave in order to ask another question that will trigger an intelligent debate. It’s your party…help clean up.

Again, I quote @thorninmud; He said it best.

“When a collection of individuals gets together and interacts over time, a “culture” begins to form. That just means that the collective settles into a certain pattern of behaviors that represents, more or less, an average of the individual behaviors, or at least those of the more influential individuals.

It’s an often informal consensus about the rules governing interactions—what’s welcome and what rankles. This is what we often refer to as the “feel” of the place. It’s why YouTube “feels” so different from Fluther, for example.

That culture may or may not become formalized in actual explicit rules that reflect the informal consensus. The formal rules are easily publicized and enforced, but the informal rules can be just as real, and people don’t know they’re there until they’ve tripped up.

Newcomers will tend to pick up on the prevailing feel of the culture. If they have a decent degree of social intelligence and a desire to be accepted, they will modify their individual behaviors to match the overall tone of the place. This is often a sub-conscious thing. As social animals, most of us have a built-in feel for how this works. But some are better at it than others.

Well… there’s a place for everyone, including these folks

What’s wrong with finding our own place? It’s in our commonalities that we find comfort and community; a place where we feel like we finally click, or finally belong. I’m sure these folks feel the same when they find their places, too, and I won’t even go there. I know the likes of me ain’t welcome!

Segregated or not—Fluther’s what it is—it will appeal to some, but not others. It’s a RARE, RARE place- without question and I’m SO glad I found this place. There’s nowhere else like this, at this point, so I completely understand jellies who defend its essence.

Lingua’s 2nd link should point to this.

Link is NSFPWB (Not Safe For People With Brains).

Actually, I lied. This IS a segregated club. If you don’t like boobies, you’re not welcome. :P

@FutureMemory No, I hate the drama.

@SavoirFaire: I enjoyed your link to “logical fallicies.” It’s reassuring to see them codified. Thank you.

Here’s one of my favorites. I didn’t know there was a formal definition.

”Argumentum Verbosium : AKA Proof by Intimidation, or Proof by Verbosity. It refers to an argument that is so complex, so long-winded and so poorly presented by the arguer that you are obliged to accept it, simply to avoid being forced to sift through its minute details.”

I’m relatively new here, but it seems to me that there are some ideological and political ideas that many (not all) people here have in common. We all don’t agree on everything, and there are people who I disagree with on almost everything. For the most part, however, these people are articulate, and often get me thinking. It would be boring as hell if we all agreed. “I hate guns!” “Me too!” zzzzzz…..

Sometimes fluther feels like an oasis of thoughtful discussion in an otherwise shit-filled wasteland of trolls and fools.

^I am both amused and saddened by the accuracy of “shit-filled wasteland of trolls and fools”.

“Argumentum Verbosium” translates to:
” My ego HAS to be right, my entire identity rests on my rightness, or, “I” will collapse into nothingness, therefore, due to my grossly immature and underdeveloped emotional intelligence, I will stop at nothing to defend myself from having to make even the smallest concessions.” ” The words ” I don’t know”, do not exist in my vocabulary.”

Fluther never used to be about this bullshit. The only person that I got a verbal spanking from was gailcalled for silly relationship questions, when I first started.

Can’t we just all get along?

Can’t we just all get along?

No, goddamn it. We’re just too different to get along.

:)

@Jude: There were epic battles in the early days, before the rules and regs. had
been codified and before there was “social” or “meta” to steer people in the right direction.

I (can you imagine) was accused of being a male pedophile.

A relative of one of the founders was close to slapping someone here across the face with the metaphorical glove. They were about to choose their weapons and seconds before the PTB stepped in and asked them to leave the site.

@gailcalled

A male pedophile…oh my.
Well..I won’t take offense if someone wishes to label me “Quackers.” haha

@Coloma, I want to come to the party, but you do not want to see me in a loincloth!

Seems to me, @Jude that we are getting along.

@GracieT

By all means, wear whatever you want, as long as part of your outfit is a big smile! ;-D

There is a 12 step group for those with “Argumentum Verbosium” it is called “On and On Anon.”

As for the rest of it, I really enjoy engaging in conversations with people who have different opinions from my own—it is how I learn. I may not change my position, but I appreciate a well-reasoned explanation from a gracious perspective. More than anything, the lack of graciousness or open-mindedness to the ideas of others is troubling in any forum. Fluther, more than most, allows people to have a voice (a diversity of voices in keeping with whoever is participating on the site at any given time). It also allows that I may agree or disagree. The only requirement is that I am civil (and pay attention to spelling and capitalization in the interest of helping people understand what is being said).

What a pity I wasn’t aware that this thread was going on while all my energy was involved with all the shit on the other thread!

Not!

@gailcalled
It might be considered bad form to ask an interesting question that does trigger an intelligent debate and then leave in order to ask another question that will trigger an intelligent debate. It’s your party…help clean up
Not sure what you mean by help clean up. It isn’t like there is trash to take out or dishes to do. What would you have me do? Always willing to learn the ways of the collective.

I am frequently more embarrassed by the people whose views I agree with than I am irritated by those of the opposite persuasion.

Is it my turn to complain yet?

I propose we have a moratorium on Meta questions for about 5 years or so.

@janbb, shall we temporarily replace the Meta tab with a Food tab while we all recover our grace and good humor?

@Jeruba Works for me!

@Kayak8

” A 12 step group called ” on & on Anon ”....haha, very good, very good!

@Coloma thanks for “getting it”!!!

@ETpro Geezus christ….I am getting pummeled at Sodahead. I can’t fight them all off! Danger! Danger Will Robinson!

where is this other question, @janbb ?

ZOMBIES OR GTFO

Nah, I don’t think there’s any group think stuff going on. I’ve seen atheists bashed to death here, too. I denno. I personally don’t subscribe to any group think that might be going on here, if there is, which I doubt, and I’m damn sure I’m not the only one. Yes, I’ve seen bad and regrettable stuff happen here, but not enough that it defines Fluther’s community. Well not to me anyways.
A lot of us are argumentative, but this is one site where I’ve seen some of the more mature and well handled debates. I’ve been on the loosing end of many, yet it all went down good, and I came out learning something. Maybe it’s just a matter of perspective.

Unless Fluther is some secret government project…’‘X-Files theme’’

Oh, I read that other q now. Seems kind of pointless as well. Anyway, someone was claiming fluther is a tight-knit group on that thread. I don’t believe it is. Every time someone is uppity it’s a different kind of person so you can’t really generalize.

“Is Fluther essentially a segregated club, without actually saying so?”

Well, have the responses answer your question? LOL

@Symbeline

“I’ve seen Atheists bashed to death here too”

By “here” I’m assuming you mean Fluther. I have yet to see that happen to Atheists (being bashed to death on Fluther) but if you can throw in a link, I’ll be more than happy to change my mind about that.

That’s not to say that I agree with the premise of the OP. Mostly Fluther is what you make of it.

But as Poisoned Antidote (who is on record as an Atheist) pointed out: to try to pretend that Theists don’t get piled on on a regular basis is pretty unrealistic.

Personally, I don’t have a pressing need to convert anyone to my point of view so I generally don’t participate in those discussions since it’s basically pointless. But I do read those threads and it’s really unfortunate. It’s sad to see the inevitable progression (or regression.)

Plus, it stifles any exchange of ideas for the few who really are sincerely asking Theists WHY they hold a particular view and finding few or no responses. JLeslie is one example of someone who has sincerely expressed such an interest on numerous topics.

I haven’t noticed any Theists jumping into threads which are specifically addressed to Atheists (in spite of all the whining about all the Christians trying to convert them by dangling them over the flames of eternal Hell. Since I believe it’s a fiction created by crappy translation, it sure as hell wasn’t me :). And, I really have yet to see one example of such from a Fluther regular. Zero. Zip. Nada. (perhaps a drive-by troll or so but not a regular).

But I have routinely witnessed the opposite on threads asking for a Theist opinion. That’s the signal for many of the condescending Atheists to immediately jump in and assert that a belief in any God (not even a specifically Christian one) no matter how broad or nebulous, is equivalent to being stupid enough to believe in the tooth fairy, leprechauns, and a flat earth. And is anyone really surprised that it’s being taken as derisive and insulting ? Really now?

I realize that it’s only a handful who are that condescending and arrogant so I certainly don’t ascribe it to all of Fluther. But they are the most vocal and the most persistent. Even if a Q is addressed to Theists or Christian, they just jump right in to be sure that everybody know how foolish THAT notion is. Can’t let an opportunity go by. Must proclaim intellectual superiority.

Unless the author of the thread specifically warns against it, every Q addressed to Theists gets turned into a kickball field by those who simply must drive home the point that anyone foolish enough to believe in any type of God at al is really deficient in reasoning and brain power over and over and over again.

I gets pretty tiresome. To pretend it doesn’t happen consistently is ridiculous and just trying to cover up the obvious.

I can only recall one Q (posted by Rarebear) asking Creationists how they reconcile transitional fossils in which the usual condescending Atheists were noticeably absent BECAUSE he specifically warned that he would flag off-topic remarks. I guess they realized he wasn’t kidding. The rest of the time it’s a different story and we all know it.

I’ve taken a complete hiatus from any Qs regarding God or anything even remotely related as I suspect others have as well.

If there are any curious folks who are merely looking for insight on why Theists hold some the divergent viewpoints they do, well they’re just SOL. The potential for any interesting discussions along those lines has been effectively squelched. Congrats. Enjoy ~

Your superior condescending “logic” about those ridiculous notions about any type of God at all have been met with your “superior” vanquishment by comparing that to the Tooth Fairy or Leprechauns. Yippee~

@Buttonstc Believing some thing created the universe is totally understandable. But one must admit it is quite comical to see another human make some claim about virgin births being real, saying we’re all created by a heavenly father, or suggesting the notion that out of this magnificent universe, some primitive humans discovered all of lifes answers for us because they wrote a book.

It’s to the point where I feel like I’m the crazy one for not taking it seriously. Lol.

Thank you @Blackberry for making @Buttonstc ‘s point.

@Judi I’m sorry, I just don’t get it. :/

I have asked the questions before, but I’m never satisfied with them.

@Blackberry

I know that you’ve participated in one of the threads in question, so I’ll ask you this.

I know for a fact that Katawa Grey has NEVER stated believing in a virgin birth nor accepting a book as having all of life’s answers. She merely stated a belief in God, declining any more specifics.

Yet, much to her annoyance, she was lumped in with all the rest of the poor ignorant folks foolish to believe that such a thing as any type of God could possibly exist.

You were there so you know full well the accuracy of my statement.

Wait, let me add that I didn’t use the “lol” to mock. It’s honestly just a reflex to show I’m not being combative.

This is my question: why religion? Why is it so detailed and pervasive?

And you also stated that you read through the thread posted by Rarebear. Perhaps you didn’t read carefully enough.

Even tho he himself does not believe in a Creator (regardless of whether he is addressed as Heavenly Father is beside the point) he acknowledged no lack of respect for those who do.

You might try taking a page out of his book. Not EVERY Atheist must act like an intolerant asshole or else lose their “street cred” or whatever it is they’re so insecure about.

Why not try that on for a change?

@Buttonstc I understand.

You asked a couple of Qs which I’m certainly not foolish enough to answer here.

Unfortunately it’s far too broad a Q to be able to be limited to Theists. I’ll be happy to speak with you in PMs but opening up yet another can of worms is not just something I’m interested in doing.

I can’t be an apologist for every Theist (or even every Christian) on the planet. I can only answer for why a Creator makes sense to me (which I’ve pretty much done already elsewhere)

Besides, the way you’re asking has far more of a tone of complaint “why so pervasive”.

No one could possibly answer that to anyone’s satisfaction. A thorough understanding of both Sociology and History would be necessary to cover it sufficiently.

But I will say this one thing about the pervasive part regarding Christianity.

The fact that beginning around 300 AD and subsequently, the partnership between Christianity and the Roman Army (one of the most brutal in the world) was the worst development for the principles of what Jesus taught IMHO.

Prior to that time it says “they went everwhere teaching and preaching the gospel (good news) of Jesus Christ”. No mention of conquering, subjugation, inquisitions etc etc.

This began the idea of “conversion by sword” which is the worst adulteration of his message ever. And things just went downhill from there.

I’m sure that plenty of Christians will disagree with my opinion. But pervasiveness at the expense of the original message (of love) wasn’t worth it. But that’s the way human kingdom builders typically do things both then and now.

And conversion by sword was certainly not limited to Christianity. Islam is well known for the same.

Thanks for your time, Buttonstc (what’s that mean, anyway? :)). I’m going to be up for awhile, so I’m going to start some research on my own. I don’t want to keep you up, plus I like doing my homework anyway (it’s not really homework).

Quite frankly, as far as I’m concerned, you (or anyone else) are free to believe or disbelieve whatever you choose. I’m not going to assume that it dooms you to an eternal hell (since the eternal part is a creation of inaccurate translation and the imagery has far more to do with Dante’s Inferno than with anything in the Bible). If others do, that’s their problem. But I have yet to see any Fluther regulars stating that. If you have, send me a link.

Neither do I assume that you are less intelligent or logical simple because we’ve chosen to see things differently.

It would be nice to be accorded the same courtesy for myself and other believers. Why is that so difficult to grasp or to do? THAT’S what I don’t get. I really don’t.

I didn’t come to my beliefs without considerable thought as well as research. And while I certainly don’t present myself as an authority on Koine Greek (the language in which the majority of the New Testament was either written or translated) I’ve taken enough classes to be able to suss out the variety of meanings for key words in pertinent passages.

I’m not merely a parrot for anybody’s pre-digested pablum. My beliefs have been as carefully thought out (and changed from previous versions as new info was learned) as much as the non-beliefs of others. And I think that’s true of most of the other believers who are Fluther regulars.

So naturally I’m not fond of those who are constantly assuming otherwise. It most likely doesn’t bother me as much on a personal level as it might others. In other words, I don’t get my feelings hurt when others disagree with me.

But I do find the constant rudeness tiresome and disruptive to honest exchange of ideas.

Since I recently discovered coincidentally that I’m eligible to be in Mensa based upon previous tests I’ve taken from NY State Regents, I really don’t care who tries to discount what I say by insinuating how stupid I am. I simply find it rude and disruptive.

And it really does stifle any straightforward exchange of ideas. I have yet to encounter another thread similar to the one on Creationism and transitional fossils. I really learned a lot from it and enjoyed it.

It’s a shame that can’t happen more often on Fluther. But as I said, Fluther is what one makes of it and obviously certain Atheists have decided to derail the possibility of frank and open exchange of ideas by insinuating that ANY ideas about any kind of God are equivalent to propogating the flat earth, the Tooth Fairy and Leprechauns.

Do you honestly think that’s a reasonable equivalent ?

That may apply to some of the more fanatical types in RL or featured in news clips. But I’ve yet to hear that crap from Fluther regulars. Obviously some Atheists are crying wolf as if Fluther could turn into Sodahead if they drop their vigil. Yeah. As if. Ha ha.

@Blackberry @Buttonstc Believing some thing created the universe is totally understandable. But one must admit it is quite comical to see another human make some claim about virgin births being real, saying we’re all created by a heavenly father, or suggesting the notion that out of this magnificent universe, some primitive humans discovered all of lifes[sic] answers for us because they wrote a book. So, it is better to believe that a lighting bolt from an ancient thunderstorm, happened to strike a pond of enzymes in the great primordial soup, spawning life? Then this single cell organism over eons of times got out of the sea, eventually became primates of which some where smart enough to become modern man, while the stupid inferior ones stayed apes? And even stupider organism never developed and stayed amebas, and plankton, etc? You really see more sense in that?

All of your points are valid. I agree fluther is not that at all. I actually agree with you.

I don’t know how well I’ve been doing lately, so I hope I’ve relaxed.

I definitely have a lot more to learn, of course. I do realize Fluther theists aren’t the ones I’ve seen growing up and in the media. I tried to explain in another thread how no one was specifically attacking people on Fluther, but these wild individuals elsewhere. I’m so not in a condition to talk about this right now, though :/ I almost typed an “lol”. I really must stop that.

Regarding the tooth fairy comparisons: they are not equal in comparison, but the general notion is that there’s no proof of either. Yes, it’s silly, but I think it is to help make a point. I think some people only believed in god until they were about 9, 10, 11 etc. When they were old enough to consider the notion of there possibly not being anything there. And this is similar to the time when we “found out” there wasn’t a santa or tooth fairy.

@Hypocrisy_Central I don’t think anyone invests time in that. The tenet has never crossed my mind.

@Blackberry

I’m not sure to which tenet you refer. Could you clarify?

I don’t think it’s any secret that the Fluther community is a mostly left-leaning one, with a larger than usual number of atheists among its members. As a result of a completely organic process, this is just who our members are, for the most part.

The site itself is not an atheistic/leftist site. It’s not something we specifically set out to be, and not something that’s written into the guidelines. All viewpoints are welcome here (except blatant bigotry or hate mongering), but some views will naturally be in the minority. Which views those are, however, may change over time.

As to the writing standards, I don’t expect those to ever change. No matter what viewpoint one would like to express, we will always prefer that it be spelled, capitalized and punctuated properly.

I am now paranoid that I have a typo in there somewhere.

^^ Your user name should be capitalized. :P

@Buttonstc Oh, the lightning bolt sparking the process, and the notion that anything that isn’t a human was just too stupid to become one.

@Hypocrisy_Central Evolution and abiogenesis are two separate things. I’m not going to claim I know how life started on the planet, but the tenets of evolution are common knowledge now. If you’re asking in general if I think everything on this planet came from a cell, then yes.

@Blackberry

We came from outter space..yep, that’s my theory, so, “God” IS an alien most likely. lol

@Coloma Maybe those first organisms came from a meteor, meaning we’re aliens, too. O.O

@Blackberry

Exactly! I agree!

Then how did the aliens get here? ;P

It’s all a mystery and the human mind is compelled to try to make sense out existence.
I say have a Happy Brownie and get OUT of your head as much as possible. haha

That was the hippiest answer, ever. Yeah, let’s all get high, who cares anyway. Lol!
Unfortunately I can’t do that.

@Blackberry

LOL..what can I say?

Out, out damn Spot! Out, I say!

Spots are banned from Fluther! Not welcome! Not the least bit welcome. If you’re a Spot, begone, you!

I don’t think Fluther is segregated by “group.” I don’t think it consists of groups at all. It is a collective of individuals. The posts are individual posts by one person.

There are no special interest groups.

Maybe we’re just smart? ~
:p

@Coloma, I’m always wearing a HUGE smile, but you still do not want to see me in a loincloth!

@everephebe Wooooooow….... cooooool!! Considering that intelligence is genetic, you just gave us an in-born genetic reason for being an atheist and a liberal!!

Now I have an excuse as to why I am nocturnal.

It’s not so much that people with right-wing leanings tend to get beaten up here. It’s more so that people who have a condescending attitude toward people with opposite political leanings get beaten up.

Maybe it’s true that Fluther has a surplus of left-wingers to right-wingers here. But I also sometimes hang out on Soda Head, which is popular with right-wingers. When a left-winger comes along with a condescending attitude toward right-wingers, he gets beaten up there as well…

And if you’re really a Libertarian, you see as much injustice meted out by the extreme right as by the extreme left…

Yes. We have a low tolerance for people who have a low tolerance. What did I just say??

Like in life: Some people like you, and some people don’t. Fluther is anything but homogenous, hegemonic or country clubesque.
That said there may be a slight pecking order here.

“Don’t worry if people Jellies don’t like you because like attracts like. If they don’t like you, it’s because they’re not like you.”

Oh, no! Somebody doesn’t like me—on the internet!!!

@SavoirFaire Oh, no! Somebody doesn’t like me—on the internet!!! Hey now! Knock it off, don’t be stealing my lines!! ;-P

@SavoirFaire @Hypocrisy_Central My pixels have lost their sparkle… I am digitally crushed…

@Hypocrisy_Central It’s been my internet motto for almost as long as I’ve been online. You just think you’re disliked or disagreed with more than everyone else. But really, we all get it and give it about the same amount. Some just take it harder.

Fluther is instituting a new segregation policy. Everyone with a butt in the right corner, everyone without a butt to the left corner.

Where do the assholes go?

They are immediately eaten by Neptune. He loves asshole sandwiches.

I don´t often look in the ‘meta’ section so I missed this. I wonder if anyone is still following…..

I’m a…. I don’t know. I guess I support more the Dems than the Reps in the US. I live in a more socalised country (Norway) and think it’s great. I am certainly more Liberal, I suppose, in many respects. BUT:

I left Fluther for a while after some of the reaction by some here to the bombing and shooting in Oslo. I felt that there was too much hate and demagoguery and I wasn’t strong enough to cope, but I got over it. :o) I know some people are sorry I am back and one even has stated as much, but I’m bigger than that now and it doesn’t bother me. If they have to get angry at me to defend their position on things, that says more about them. I think THINGS are worthy of our anger, but not each other.

I think if you think one way, and suddenly face another way of thinking, it gets up your nose, regardless of which spectrum you are from. But think about it: We are all here to discuss topics and we are not going to agree. HOW BORING would that be? I, for one, say, Vive la différence!

Ultimately, the Mods set the tone and I have found them (for the most part) very fair-handed but don’t expect kid gloves. (I have been scolded on more than one occasion and I know I deserved it ( but the other jelly really pissed me off!) We are here to debate, discuss and sometimes just express ourselves.

It is the internet, after all. Have a look at this cartoon that I just love… xkcd. I think is rather apt. http://xkcd.com/386/

@cazzie I always follow the controversial topics.

@cazzie I love that one too. And I’m glad you’re back.

Good to see you back on Fluther, cazzie.

Welcome home @cazzie!

But think about it: We are all here to discuss topics and we are not going to agree. HOW BORING would that be? I, for one, say, Vive la différence! Here here!!! There is enough fluff on AB and YA.

Yes. Absolutely Hippy Central! It’s craziness…two users can be on a thread just going after it, drawing blood, then laughing a joking in a another thread, then jumping back to the fight thread! Only a couple of users carry their anger over to other threads to make digs. I’m glad it’s only a couple because this would be a pretty miserable place if everyone did it.
I love it.

aw… shucks, guys…. how nice of you all…

I know this is an old thread, but I just want to point out the groups listed in the OP’s description are very prone to being butthert easily. Many of the constituents of such groups don’t like the fact that anyone can disagree with them because they think they have a monopoly on Truth.™

People who take Fox News seriously are often poor spellers. Republikans, Libertarians™, “laissez faire free marketeers” [sic] often have a poor grasp on economics. I don’t like Obama, but it’s hard to deny that his loudest critics are generally slopebrows and I would like to extend a hearty “fuck you” to them because their stupidity reflects back on me when I make actually constructive criticisms of Obama and his ilk.

People who register complaints like the OP did aren’t victims of “segregation.” They’re “victims” of not being as smart as the milquetoast “liberals” on Fluther.

Good post @bolwerk, and so true. I wonder why the bad spelling and ignorant grammar are so prevalent in those groups?

Since this popped back up, I feel the need to let ya’ll know that next week we are going to be putting a magic potty in the guest bathroom.

Been breathlessly waiting to hear that @Judi1 :)