I read about critical parents, but what about critical adult children?

OK, this may be obvious, but my coffee’s not kicked in, yet… Do you mean adult children that are critical of their parents? Or everyone in their family?

Critical people suck. “If you don’t have anything good to say, don’t say anything”. My Dad’s favorite quote.

Sorry! I’m talking about adult children critical of their parents. But, often times that type of person is critical of everyone in their family.

Ah, one of my sisters is like that, she is exactly like my mother…some justice?? but my daughter couldn’t be lovelier, I’m fortunate. Watching that kind of intergenerational pettiness makes me a little ill…

Assuming the parents did not do anything that caused great harm, those children seem to be miserable people in general. Insecure stands out most in my mind, and low self esteem. Competitive with their friends, put tons of pressure on themselves and others, tend to have anger problems. They seek control over their life. Etc. Not always of course, and the extreme of it varies of course.

The critical person should remove themselves from their parent’s environment if they can’t control themselves.

@marinelife Unfortunately that winds up punishing the parent. Most parents don’t want to be cut off from their children.

I wasn’t completely forthcoming so here goes. One of my sons is annoyed with me. One of his issues, I can understand but…........I have had re-ocurring bladder cancer for the past 7 years. I was going for treatments every 4 mos for 6 to 8 weeks and it did a number on my bladder. Constant peeing, pain, and travelling in a car for long distances I couldn’t handle, so the families came here. I haven’t had another occurence in the past year (yippee), and so I was ready to visit, (yea!) and I came down with a flu like virus and couldn’t. I haven’t heard the end of it.

@comity Sorry for derailing your thread.

He may be having trouble dealing with the idea of your upcoming mortality or even just the fact that you are aging and what that means physically. Have you tried sitting him down and saying, “I’m getting older. I can’t physically do what I used to be able to do. I have to make accommodations to it, and I’m afraid that you do as well.”

Sounds like petty selfishness due to disappointment, to me.

How can you possible “blame” someone for a health issue/ coming down sick?

I had plans to get together today or tomorrow with friend to exchange gifts and I came down with a nasty virus on Saturday afternoon. Nix that plan til after Xmas maybe…I am not up to it and, mostly, I don’t want to expose my friend to getting sick or taking it home to her family before the holiday.

My daughter also wanted to come over on Saturday but I was sick.

Your son is just being childish, he didn’t get his way and he is pouting and pissy about it.

I’d tell him it’s okay to feel disappointed but his criticism is unacceptable.

@marinelife I’ve tried that. He’s angry that I haven’t been to his house since I’ve been going for treatments and he feels badly for my grandson who hasn’t had his Grandma over, and I feel badly too but…........Will try again, however when they looked in my bladder last month, they saw a suspicious irritation that they’ll check out in January and if I have to go for treatments again….....

@comity Possibly he rearranged things for your visit, and was just frustrated it did not work out, took it out on you, but really it is about the circumstance. If he had come down with a bad flu, it would have been the same problem in reality. Since you have a history of some illness, and I assume he has possibly made time to be with you during the illness, he might be very frustrated with how it affects his own life. It is a little selfish of course, but I guess maybe he is not handeling the whole situation well, which is understandable too, because he is worried about you also, For you it might feel like a single instance of not making it for an event because you caught a cold, for him it might feel like a series of events. It’s about perception. Can you try to ask him about it, give him a chance to vent, and maybe he will be able to be more objective about it.

I’m only critical of a few older adults in my family. One has been in and out of jail for doing the exact same thing every time. Like seriously man, I’m 26 and have my shit together, why don’t you?

@JLeslie I’ve tried. He lectures me about being tougher like I used to be when I raised a family I made things happen and didn’t give up. He feels I should travel and be tougher. Gee! This must be what it feels like to be on a Psychiatrists couch. Thank you Fluther!

@comity If you have tried to tell him about the issues of aging and he is still angry, then it is on him, and he is being out of line. Have you complained to him about how his anger is affecting you?

Of course, you miss your grandson. Is he of an age where you could do a recordable storybook for him? I think those are almost magical since they have the sound of your voice on them. Can you Skype with the family?

I am sorry that you are feeling the brunt of your son’s anger instead of the love and understanding that your condition deserves. Take care and be well.

Forgive me for saying this about your son, but it sounds like he’s being a pissy toddler. Can you sit him down (or on the phone I guess) and firmly tell him exactly WTH is going on? He’ll probably be shaken out of his smug outrage when he hears exactly what’s going on. No child (especially a son) can deal well with out-of-control bodily functions discussions from their Mom. You could also point out (rather firmly) that since you have already done all that, maybe it’s his damned turn to bring the family to you. I don’t know how you feel, now, but I was easily exhausted for a couple of years while recovering from chemo and radiation when I was 45, and, frankly, TMI alert things will never be all the way “right” again. He kinda needs to man up. I’m sorry if he has a problem with your mortality, but he’s not 15.

@comity. What I am thinking is, he’s just wrong. Haha! I lived with pretty bad chronic pain for a while, and what I learned was people who are generally healthy, tend to have no clue. Some people are extremely empathetic without ever having been ill, but most aren’t. Also, sure mom’s push through when they are sick to be there for their young children, but he is not 10 years old. You did your slavery for the children as most moms do (not that there is not rewards and joy in having children). What surprises me is he has his own children and does not realize that maybe once the kids are out of the house and people are older, they should not have to push themselves so hard. Plus, you were sick, what does he want his whole family to catch it? He seems to be having trouble with how the family dynamic is changing. I have no idea how to deal with it really if talking about it didn’t seem to work. Do you have a good relationship with his wife? Maybe she can help calm him down. Not that I think you should use her in the middle, I just mean sometimes women will take a moment to listen to the whole picture better. Not always of course.

I can understand why he is frustrated, dissappointed, worried, etc. I am sure you all are :(. He is being too hard on you.

You’re all wonderful. I was starting to feel guilty. You’re helping me to realize it’s not me. Thank you. As far as talking to his wife, they sort of think alike. We are using Skype. My grandson is 11 years old and loves to come to Grandma’s house as it backs onto a state park with water falls, gorges, playground, hiking, etc. They can’t come that often as they’re busy working.

@comity In the end, the message is they miss you. :).

@JLeslie Thank you. I miss them too (especially my grandson)! : )

@comity

My daughter who is 24 went through a phase a year or so ago now where she was constantly telling me my biz. lol
She would tell me she thought I should buy a new car, do this, do that, on & on.
I had to remind her that I’m a big girl and have been making my own decisions for a looong time, pre-she. haha

Kids! Sometimes!

Two weeks ago I moved in with my 87-year-old uncle (I may have mentioned this on a previous thread). Normally his daughter and son-in-law live in his house with him, but they have left the state for the winter season, and he needs someone to be with him, especially in the evenings.

All his life he has been hyper-critical (ex-naval officer and business executive, and more often than not he has been “the smartest guy in the room”, so he is usually “technically correct” in his observations and suggestions). His criticisms have not only usually been “correct”, but they have more often than not been delivered in helpful ways – so he has a lot of friends, and his kids don’t hate him at all. However, the constant “help” hasn’t always been appreciated. I’ve learned to accept it or tune it out, as needed.

It’s sad to see him turn his criticism on himself, however. As an old man with the normal frailties (and unfortunately, elements of dementia) he has no patience with his own physical and mental failures, no matter how slight. I try to tell him, “It’s no big deal, and nothing to get upset about,” because he gets upset at everything that he forgets or can’t do now, and swears at himself all the time.

Living with him now is teaching me to mind my own “first reactions” to my own occasional petty failures and mistakes. The reactions I develop now and make habit will be the ones that people will be commenting on thirty years from now if I’m lucky.

@ CWOTUS Who said “never explain, never complain’? Well, I’ll add to that, “just be happy and enjoy what is” There are so many things to enjoy with family, with friends, etc.

Actually, @comity, I’ve been saying that for years and years. If you google “never complain; never explain cyanotic wasp” you’ll see the times I mentioned those “words to live by” in another Q&A site that shall be nameless for now.

Everyone is allowed to kvetch, you can’t change that. The only person you can really change for the better is yourself. Plus, you can never tell the form that love takes.
“Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.”

My oldest sister got extremely critical of my mom. She wouldn’t call her for years and when she did it was like walking on egg shells. When my mom was diagnosed and we knew she had weeks to live, my sister finally made peace and mom died knowing all her children loved her.

@CWOTUS: Depression in the elderly is very common, often not diagnosed and rarely treated.

Would your uncle benefit (and perhaps even enjoy) talking to a therapist?

@Comity: I would have a serious and firm talk with your son.Keep your voice level and unshrill. If you need to write a script before-hand to help you maintain your composure, do it as a cheat sheet.

What a self-centered guy. I guess that slapping him across the chops is not a good technique.

Be firm, please.

I guess I would try to be sympathetic to his side, because it’s generally easier for people to give sympathy when they know they’ll receive it as well; a sort of golden rule thing. Yeah, he’s pretty much being a jerk, but no matter how right you are, I’m not sure being righteous will actually help your relationship with him. And while it definitely sucks for you, it’s not a walk in the picnic for him either; this is the beginning of a slow but inevitable slide into a relationship with unequal power, where he has to give a lot more.

@ Atheflaed I’m not the type to act righteous and I love my son and don’t want to make him angrier, but sometimes it becomes too much, too tiring, too…........................

@ janbb No, this is the son that came to visit and was upset with the Vegan family. Like I said ” We all have our shtik”. He was upset that the Vegans wouldn’t join us for Thanksgiving and now I wouldn’t join him and his family two weeks later. Oh the excitement of family complications. I think I just want to dig myself a hole and hide for awhile ; )

Just wondering – is this the vegan family as well?

Thanks, @gailcalled, but I think the time for talking to therapists may have passed. I definitely don’t think that he’d enjoy it, but it’s worth thinking about. At least he has friends and neighbors who visit nearly every day, and his other daughter lives nearby and visits at least weekly.

Sometimes adult children will go through a type of crisis where they seem to analyze their lives from the earliest memories. Both of my biological children have done this ( although my three adopted children have not ). If they go to a counselor. which both of them did, the counselor will often advise them to write down all the hurts, frustrations and aggravations they can remember from childhood, in the form of a letter to each of their parents. Kinda tough to be on the recieving end of this process, but very cathartic for the ones writing them. I learned a lot of things about myself ( some of them rather unpleasant ) just listening to what they had to say.

@CaptainHarley They are a product of divorce. Good idea! The son that’s so upset with me goes to a psychologist as he has been through tough times in his marriage, and my grandson has an ongoing illness (under control now). I think he needs the help of his mom, as he called me often and just talked, and talked while I listened, but hasn’t called since I was unable to visit. Also, I’m not as able to give him what it is that he needs other then a shoulder to lean on and talk to. Wish I was.

@comity Awww. Does this son have a lot of shoulds? How people should behave? Is he dissappointed easily in general? Not just with you? This goes back a little to my first answer. People like this tend to feel cheated in life I think. Constantly let down. Their expectations are too high in my opinion, but I have been accused of having expectations that are too low, who knows exactly where just right is. I think @CaptainHarley is right, it probably goes back to early childhood.

@comity It does sound then like he is having difficulty adjusting to the fact that Mom can’t always mommy him. Maybe you can try to talk to him gently about the fact that you are getting older and just can’t always parent him in the way he would still like.

@janbb Needing “mommy” at 48 years of age when she’s 75 is a bit much if I say so myself : ) Maybe it’s time for mommy to get the attention. Do I sound mean?

@janbb The thing is, and just thinking aloud about what @CaptainHarley said, if the hurt is from childhood, it might be even more than what you suggest. It is not about @comity‘s inability today to give him everything he wants now, but wherever her son thinks she fell short when he was young. That is if I am on the right track. That to me would mean he is holding onto a lot of anger. What do you think?

Kids are so good at inflicting “mommy guilt.”

@JLeslie I am so confused. He keeps telling me how strong and good I was when he was young, and wants me to be stronger, gooder? now.

Well, I do have some experience with that. Without going into detail, in my family situation one family member couldn’t handle what my Mother was going through. It made that family member feel less than perfect. She was afraid of being looked down on because of our Mother’s actions. She wanted to be sure that no one thought that she thought it was all OK.

As for me, it was all OK.

@comity You make a good point, that is confusing. That would not make sense with what I wrote. Maybe I am projecting a situation I have in my own life. An adult child who is very unforgiving towards a parent. I guess that would put us back with him just not accepting your limitations now. Maybe he is not good with change.

@Dutchess_III So the adult child was worried about appearances? Is that right?

@JLeslie That’s alright. I wish I knew how to handle it, but what I do know selfishly, is that “it makes my ass tired” : ) and I find it painful and hard to deal with..

@comity I wasn’t suggesting that he was right to still need you to be his Mommy, just that if he is having psychological problems, that might be where he is coming from. It sounds like you are pretty angry with him and rightfully so – I’m not sure what kind of help or support you want from us. What outcome would you like? Maybe you can write him a letter with all your feelings expressed, rather than trying to talk to him.

@JLeslie Absolutely. She was worried about how it made HER look. Intelligent People Who Are Always In Control don’t have those kinds of situations, you see.

@comity Maybe just vent here, and let it lie with him. His little tantrums might be difficult for you, but if you can just try to understand he is having trouble. I know you do understand. Is what bothers you most that you feel misperceived? That you know you are doing your best, and trying to do all the right things for your family and yourself, and instead of getting some credit for it, you get criticized?

@janbb Not angry, sad! Just wanted to vent and have a shoulder to lean on. Don’t do that with family as spend most of my time interacting with grandkids. I don’t have the power to change others, but have to work on myself. Just some ideas on how to do that positively. Wow! You must be reading my mind JLeslie as I’m writing this your piece came up. Also, I like peace and harmony .http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WmJnLYKy7o&feature=fvsr

@Dutchess_III Ooh, yeah, I know someone very much like that. This particular person is extremely judgmental of others, and she worries a ton about being judged herself, to the point that she worries about how she will be judged on the company she keeps, including family. She became completely controlling of her facebook wall even, eventually not going on facebook much, because people might post something she does not agree with, and then her friends might think she thinks the message is ok. She was deleting, and policing her page like crazy, blocking people, finally she gave up.

Hm. You know, when you’re younger sometimes it’s really hard to relate to how an older person feels physically. Once, when my dad was about 65, he came to visit. We had moved, and were close to a wooded hill that was SO COOL! So we took a walk up that hill. Well, at some point I looked at him and saw sheer annoyance on his face because the task just wasn’t easy for him. I think he was annoyed because I didn’t anticipate how “difficult” it would be for him. As for me, I remember being annoyed because I didn’t think 65 was THAT old. Many people are still very, very active at 65 and can take walks that last for more than 15 minutes. So…I don’t know who was right, if anyone.

But no. It isn’t your fault. It’s a lack of really understanding, of being able to relate, on your son’s part.

I remember getting frustrated with my mom in the grocery store because she took so long to read the labels and prices. Now my vision is fading and I understand. If I was frustrated, she must have been twice as frustrated! I never really understood what a handicap poor vision was until I experienced it myself.

Sometimes critical children are the product of reaping as those parent sewed.

Sometimes of course the kids are just asses.

I think it’s all about really making the effort to understand anothers POV.
If BOTH parties do their best to show understanding, compromise and empathy, it’s a win/win.

I’m big on NOT pushing myself when I am sick, and if someone else wants to take issue with that, that is their problem.

Nothing worse than getting into one of ” those” stupid, unproductive, ego fueled debates with someone who says ” Oooh, WELL..when I had the flu I still went to work and entertained company and ran a marathon .”

Really?

Well, good for you, but I am NOT you! haha

I don’t do martyrdom and I don’t allow others to martyr themselves to me, gah!

Part of relating in as healthy a way as possible is to first be aware that how one thinks or feels or chooses to do things is their choice and there is no right/wrong dichotomies.

@Grant6 I don’t know if that’s it. I also look at some 75 year olds, like John McCain and he’s still going strong. Unfortunately, I’m not. And, my son is a nice guy, good daddy, etc. Like I said, hopefully there will be peace and harmony once again. I’m too tired to handle the other.

It’s not you, it’s him. Who knows what all plans he’s makes anticipating your visits but he’s clearly flustered. I like @JLeslie‘s idea of calling him and letting him say his peace after which you can tell him your health isn’t predictable, it’s no fun not being able to make consistent plans and that you miss your family.

Looks like it has all been said. Your son IS being unreasonable but he probably misses you and has been looking forward to your visit (along with your grandson) and now that isn’t going to happen. Perhaps there is something going on in his life and he wanted his mum close by for a while?

Doesn’t really excuse the childish behaviour. Perhaps you need to sit him down (over the telephone) and explain that you would like to be the young woman who raised him but the reality is, you are not. Consequently, it is time for him to realise you may not visit very often and he needs to explain why this is to his son. The burden of visiting will fall on him and his family more and more because you are getting older. His son is eleven, perhaps they can put him on a train/plane and he can travel to visit you more often? I used to travel to visit relatives and I loved it.

I hope you have a lovely Christmas @comity and I hope whatever is getting to your son settles down and you two can move on from this without too much rancour.

Thank you all for your wonderful responses. My fingers are even tired of the subject. Have a Happy Chanukah, A Merry Christmas and peace be with you. Talk to you soon in a different place. Hugs!

@comity

The same to you, and I hope that different place is still on this side of the next world. lol ;-)

Sounds like he’s just wants the family to be closer. I think that happens a lot around the holidays. At Thanksgiving he probably was upset with vegans because he wanted the family to be together and now around Christmas he probably wanted the same thing. He’s probably got a picture in his head about how the holidays should be. The doesn’t excuse him being critical of you, but I’d rather have my kids want to be with me than not care if I visited at all.

@comity I’m going to agree 100% with @JilltheTooth . Your son is being a pissy toddler. Time for him to man up (as she says) and act like a big boy, cause he “ain’t gonna” have mommy to nurse him forever. We all die and many of us get sick before we die. So tough luck for him. He gets to pull the weight now that you have pulled all your life.

Here I go again and I said I wouldn’t – Just can’t keep my fingers quiet

@oldoranimum – The Vegans wouldn’t come for Turkey but my son who is upset and his family travel the day of Thanksgiving to avoid traffic and arrive in time for dinner. They don’t spend the whole day. But, the next two days the grandkids and everyone had fun and I cleaned and fed everyone and was tired but glad that it all worked out. I too felt guilty about not feeling well enough to go and started analyzing, is it because…..... etc. , but the truth is my body hasn’t been as cooperative lately. Like I said, everyone has their Shtik, and I think we all have to adjust and work around what is. I’m starting to feel guilty now, complaining about my family. Oy! : )

@plethora I will find a time to talk to him. I try by email but that isn’t working.

The holidays have a way of bringing up issues for a lot of people.
Jeez, even I, who has been extremely flexible and easy going for years and years found myself surprised at a bit of a reaction with some holiday plans with my family the last few days.
It’s been forever but, yep, I was triggered when I felt I was being arbitrarily controlled by others obligations and taken for granted in my efforts.

I had to decide if I wanted to address my feelings.
I did, and it’s all worked out, a good compromise, but even the best of us can have a moment.
I can’t remember what sagey guru said this, but, it is so true…” If you think you are so enlightened spend a week with your family ” haha

I think it’s kind of petty that a person would avoid Thanksgiving dinner / family get together because they’re vegan. It’s not like their diets couldn’t have been planned for.