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Jude's avatar

Those who are against homosexuality and take the Bible word for word, how do you explain this (details inside)

Asked by Jude (32098points) January 10th, 2012

Old testament:

2:22 Eve created from Adam’s rib.
3:16 Cursed with painful childbirth and domination by husband.
4:17 Cain marries sister?
4:19 Man marries two wives.
12:13–19 Abraham prostitutes wife.
19:1–8 Rape virgin daughters instead of male angels.
19:26 Lot’s wife turned into pillar of salt for disobeying god.
19:30–38 Lot impregnates his two daughters while drunk. (So much for “family values”!)
20:2–12 Abraham prostitutes wife – again.
25:1–6 Keeping many concubines is OK.

20:17 Wife as property.
21:4 Wife and children belong to master.
21:7–11 OK to sell daughters. Female slaves can be used for sex.
Polygamy permitted. Unwanted female slaves can be set “free” without payment of money.
22:18 Kill witches.

12:1 Childbirth a sin, Women unclean after childbirth.
15:19–32 Menstruating women are unclean.
20:10–16 Death penalty for homosexuality and various sexual transgressions.
21:7 Priests must not marry prostitutes or divorcees.
21:9 Burn daughters.
21:13–14 Priest must marry virgin, not “used” woman.

1:2 Census lists only men – women do not count.
5:11–31 Fidelity test for women only.
30:1–16 Woman’s vow invalid unless approved by her father or husband.
31:17–18 Kill all except virgins. Keep virgins for yourselves.
CH 12 Miriam punished for rebuking Moses.

20:14 Take women, livestock as plunder.
22:13–21 Stone non-virgin bride.
22:23–24 Stone rapist and rape victim.
22:28 Rape victim must marry rapist; rape victim’s father compensated for depreciation of his property.
25:11–12 Cut woman’s hand for touching foe’s penis.
24:1–5 Man can “send” wife from HIS house. Man must not marry “used” woman.
28:18 The FRUIT of your womb will be cursed – eclectic “pro-life” verse!

5:30 Women are spoils of war.
14:20 Samson gives wife to another man.
16:1 Samson visits prostitute.
CH 19 Concubine pack-raped and butchered.
21:10–12 Slaughtered all inc. women and children. Saved virgins for wives.
21:21 Abducted girls for wives.

Ruth shags Boaz.

15:2–3 Attack Amalekites, kill men, women, children and livestock.
22:19 Kill all inc. infants and livestock.
21:4–5 Men avoid defilement with women.

5:13 David took many wives and concubines.
CH 13 Ammon rapes his own sister.
16:21–22 Absalom sleeps with his father’s concubines.
6:20–23 Mischal punished with bareness.

11:3 Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.

9:30–37 Brutal murder of Jezebel.

15:13 Put to death unbelievers.
11:21 Hoards of wives and concubines.

CH 1–2 Queen Vashti dethroned for disobedience; setting “bad” example to all other women.

51:5 Sinful since conception.
127:3 Sons are heritage from god.
137:9 Seizes infants and dashes them against rocks.

CH 5 Beware of wicked women!
CH 7 More of the above.
6:24 As above.
31:3 Do not waste strength on women.

3:16–26 Lord punishes haughty women.
4:4 Filthy women.
13:16 Ravish wives, dash infants.
19:16 Will be like women! (insult to Egyptians)

9:6–7 Slaughter all including children.
CH 16 Prostitutes, stoning, promiscuity…
CH 23 Tale of two adulterous sisters – reads like the script of a pornographic film. I bet you weren’t told this story at Sunday school!

13:16 Rip pregnant women, dash little ones. (Another “pro-life” verse!)

3:4… wanton lust of a harlot… prostitution… witchcraft.
3:5 I will lift your skirts over your face!
3:13… Your troops are all women. (insult to Nineveh)

5:32 Husband can divorce wife for adultery. Can wife divorce husband for the same?
CH 25 Sexist tale of ten virgins.

2:22 Mary must be purified after birth of Jesus.
2:49 Jesus rebukes his mother.

11:2–10… Woman created for man.
14:34 Women must be silent in churches.

5:22–24 Wives must submit to husbands in everything.

3:18 Wives submit to husbands.
3:22 Slaves must obey masters in everything.

2:11–15 Woman must not have authority…she must be silent. Women can be saved with childbearing.
5:9–10 Widows should be faithful to husband and must wash saints’ feet.

2:18 Slaves submit to masters, even masters who are harsh.
3:1 Wives submit.
3:5–6 Sarah calls husband master.

CH 17 Destroy great prostitute.
14:4…they did not DEFILE themselves with women but kept themselves pure.

I am agnostic.

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25 Answers

Charles's avatar

You’re trying to talk logic and facts with the anti-fact crowd. ‘The Bible says it, I believe it, that settles it.”

Response moderated (Unhelpful)
Jude's avatar

I am not bashing religion here atall. Just wondering what someone would say to all of this.

Judi's avatar

@Jude , as you know, because of our private discussions, I am a repentant bigot when it comes to homosexuality.
I just read this amazing article, An Open Letter From Christians to Gay People that reflects my heartfelt remorse. If my attitude can change, it gives me hope for other Christians as well.

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

To the best of my knowledge, we don’t have many (any?) jellies that live by the word-for-word literal translation of the Bible.
May I ask where you found this? Or did you compile it yourself? It’s no surprise that I’m an atheist, so these aren’t issues that I haven’t heard/seen time and again, but it is kind of staggering to look at a list like this.
To the best of my understanding, laws of the Old Testament were meant more as government laws, civil laws, and when Jesus came there began a period of new laws, moral laws, that were meant to govern how God wanted people to live and behave. Because homosexuality is discussed in the New Testament, some people believe that it is a law of morality given by God, although in the Bible, Jesus never once mentions anything about homosexuality. Basically, laws of the Old Testament that are not mentioned again in the New Testament are commonly disregarded, as the laws that were written after Jesus’ crucifixion are “moral” laws. Slavery, in the New Testament, takes on a new tone. It suggests that slaves and masters are equal, since even the masters have a “Master” in heaven. The laws of the New Testament are viewed as being about morality.

Jude's avatar

@Nef, I’ll send you the link.

critter1982's avatar

I agree with @john65pennington and @ANef_is_Enuf in terms of the OT laws. Additionally when trying to figure this stuff out it should never be taken out of context which requires a ton of studying and historical understanding.

Keep_on_running's avatar

Yep, this is what happens when uneducated humans evolve and create a patriarchal world…makes me fume more than you’ll ever know, but of course getting angry does nothing, they didn’t know any better, so sadness is a more appropriate emotion. I don’t really think you’re going to get an actual answer to your question, it’s just like @Charles said unfortunately.

SavoirFaire's avatar

@Judi I think it’s a good letter, but I hope you realize—and I am confident you do—that it is only a first step. When asked about acceptance of gay marriage, which is really just an indicator of accepting gay existence, Dan Savage noted that there are two big barriers: religious bigots who spew hatred at gays, and religious moderates who won’t stand up to them. It’s one thing to say “don’t worry, @Jude, I don’t hate you.” It’s another to say, “Hey, Tony Perkins! Yeah, you! You are a bigot, and you are what’s wrong with Christianity today. You are the one who needs to change!”

I don’t mean to take away from your accomplishment. I have great respect for how you have managed to change your mind and how honest and how open you are about where you came from. Most people would do that as silently as possible and then pretend they had always held their current beliefs. I just think it’s important to keep in mind how much more there is left to do.

phaedryx's avatar

I fail to see how most of the items on that list relate to homosexuality.

SavoirFaire's avatar

@phaedryx They’re not supposed to. The point is that some of the allowed things are clearly far worse than being gay.

dappled_leaves's avatar

I thought the point was that we no longer tolerate the laws/views in the list, but some people say homosexuality is wrong because “it’s in the bible”.

SavoirFaire's avatar

@dappled_leaves Oh, good point. Probably a bit of that, too.

phaedryx's avatar

Hmm, now that I reconsider the question, I think the point is to get support from the anti-bible crowd and set the battleground for a fight with any pro-bible person that might show up.

Jude's avatar

@phaedryx Not at all. In fact, I tend to steer clear of questions having to do with religion because I hate the bickering.

phaedryx's avatar

me too, so I’m unfollowing this question

WillWorkForChocolate's avatar

I could be entirely wrong, but the way I always understood it was that all the strange “laws” and acceptable behavior from the OT was changed up quite a bit after Jesus’s arrival. But you’re right- a lot of things in the bible are very odd and disturbing. I don’t take much of the bible literally anymore. Oh, and just to clarify, I’m not against homosexuality at all; I just wanted to answer the question, lol.

digitalimpression's avatar

@Charles It is not an anti-fact crowd. That statement is ignorant and a little naive.

@Jude If it were old testament times you might find Christians sacrificing lambs and putting oil all about the place. It isn’t.
As @critter1982 said, taking each verse out of context and at face value is just scratching the surface.

@phaedryx I was kinda wondering the same thing. Basically a lot of things are plucked out of a radically different time and compared to the present in a feeble attempt to generalize that Christianity is hogwash. It’s really nothing new as far as “debate” goes.

As the question doesn’t really make sense, I’m not sure how to answer any further. Good luck @Jude =) .

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

If I asked this q, it’d be called inflammatory…probably by you…so, were you bored or something?

Jude's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir I would never say such a thing.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@Jude Yeah, maybe…but as veterans of this site, we know that throwing out questions like that is just signs of boredom, nobody’s gonna answer you in any real way and people will just bitch about how anti-religious we are…not that I give a shit, just making an observation.

SavoirFaire's avatar

@digitalimpression Note that the question does not generalize Christianity. It asks about a very specific group of Christians and asks how they reconcile insistence on some Old Testament rules while ignoring others. If you are not part of that group, you have nothing for which you need to answer. If you are part of that group, then you would be better served by answering the question than complaining about it.

BeckyKytty's avatar

The first verse of what the Hebrew/Christian collection of books, or bible goes:
In the beginning God…
Written in the original Hebrew, God = אֱלֹהִים
Translated, “Elohiym” and pronounced “el.o.hem’
It is a plural word, both masculine and feminine.
The same word is used when you read the word goddess in the bible.

In Genesis 1:26:
“And God (Elohiym) said, Let us (plural) make man in our (plural) image.”

Wow, more than one!?

How about:

Gen 1:27 “So God created man in his image, in the image of God created he him: MALE and FEMALE created he them.

To me and many cultures around the globe, their image of what created, creation is both at once, male and female.

If we look to ourselves, can any of us say we are only our genitalia?
A human with a penis in no way has attributes of the feminine in thinking, behavior or even genetics and hormones.
Science, Biology, Psychology confirm we are both.
Same for those born with vagina’s, I know some Kung Fu Kittens that are pretty masculine, one even has a bit of a beard.

We are anotomically female in the womb, but the x chromosome kicks in and the innies become outies.

Men have estrogen and progesterone
Women have have testosterone

If one is born with genitals of both, a Hermaphrodite, what sex is that body
Does their mind and heart determine if the are predominantly male or female?

The bible proves the creator is both, so we are in it’s image, we are both

The myth of extreme polarities existing without an element of it’s opposite is not how things are.

So Jude, I guess people can have whatever for genitalia, or no genitalia, or both. It matters not, we are male and female inside like our creator so how ignorant it would be to look at the bodies of 2 humans and say the spirit of those two is just one sex, when the bible itself says god is both.

Religion is often in conflict with the true spirit and essence of what we are inside.
Spirituality is our entire being, physical, mental and spiritual, and it’s foundation is Love.
The crap in our heads messes with our ability to love
Religion messes with our heads
I prefer plain, unbiased, unpredjudiced truth that teaches me to love, and encourages me to get education outside the cornflakes box of any religion.

Hey, don’t you know Cornflakes it the only true Cereal!
Raisin Bran might be a sin!
Oh, my, CoCo Puffs are of Satan!!!!

Jesus himself said “You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free”
Truth contains no judgement.”
Neither does love, which is what Jesus was all about anyway, trying to get people out of judgement and dogma and walk in love.

Those that judge peoples sexuality are not walking in the law of love
Their imaginations are full of filthy imaginings,anger, hatred, judgement of themselves and others. Self loathing at the disclosure of their own divinity and dual nature of female and male inside themselves.

If these hateful people want to quote the old testament as how to act, they better start sacrificing animals, and doing all the stuff the Hebrews were told to do with candles, rituals etc.

“Judge not least you be judged”

Christ! (oh, my language!) Jesus himself tried to get this across to the staunch religious, bible thumping Jews stoning a whore according to “The Law.”

Didn’t he tell them to walk in love, screw that law, and say…
“Let him who is without sin cast the first stone?”

Oh, my, another ranting….


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