Is there such a thing as right or wrong or are they just people's perceptions ?

No, there’s no such thing as right and wrong, but there are things which different societies agree are essentially objective truths to make the society work together.

Right or wrong is black & white or what I’d call rigid thinking. There are only shades of grey in my world.

@EverRose11 Depends on what you’re referring to and the context. Abuse of any kind, is pretty black and white, murder would appear the same, but we have states still using the death penalty and we have our armed forces. Poaching would appear black and white, but what if they’re doing it to keep the family from starving.

Even as babies we are have the instinct to feel what is good and what is not good. So, yes you know how to actually see what is right and what is wrong.

Yes, there are black and white objective truths, but they are facts and not opinions. If it is not 100% factual it is subjective, even interpretation of facts is subjective.

Society’s perspective.

In the 1500’s, if a woman was a gossip, they’d bind her head in a metal contraption with a metal fork in her mouth, then tie a rope to that headset and drag her around town with people screaming at her, spitting on her, and throwing rocks, waste, dirt, rotten food on her.

A majority of people at that time considered the punishment and torture the “right thing to do.” Today, we say it’s not humane, but what is humane? When do we become so humane that it becomes ridiculous and then becomes “wrong?”

Most of us would agree that certain things are 100%, indisputably wrong—i.e. incest, genocide, torture, pedophilia, etc. but it is still a perspective, albeit a strongly and widely held one.

@linguaphile By your example am I to assume that the torture you talk about is not really wrong? Just a perspective? Of course there is right and wrong. We have a major problem with society if there isn’t.

I live by a moral code, which dictates right and wrong. Killing another person is wrong.

@Adirondackwannabe Yes I agree I have seen and experienced way too many unjust inhuman situation’s in this life time,choosing to live in many parts of this not so huge world.. My perception of right or wrong now remains a shade of gray.

@EverRose11 That was a really good question. Made me think about that a lot.

@missingbite I agree society needs to agree on things, but torture is still a perspective, even though I may feel it is wrong.

@missingbite Whoa, there—back up. I did not say torture was acceptable. Of course, we agree it is wrong in this day and age, but torture was not wrong to the people who lived 500 years ago—to them it was a reality of life.

125 years ago it was okay to use cocaine and laudanum (morphine). Today, it’s wrong. Today, many people think marijuana use is wrong, and many think it’s right. In 100 years, marijuana use might be considered 100% right, who knows?

Right and wrong might feel concrete, but it’s not. Regardless of whether 100% of us agree it’s wrong, it’s still a perspective.

I like the saying that “there is no right or wrong, only consequences.”
Some cultures still practice head hunting and cannibalism.
I agree with the shades of gray, however, if you harm or mistreat others in this society there will be a consequence.
Otherwise, do what you want, just be aware that if you violate social and legal mandates you’ve chosen to gamble, and we all know that gambling carries big risks.

Other than facts, nope.

We make a choice. There is an outcome. We put that outcome in the laboratory of our life’s experiences and draw our conclusions. I sometimes think that’s where the saying “And how’s that workin’ for ya?” comes from. The world is full of books of wisdom from any spiritual source anyone of us is willing to accept. These sages through the ages weren’t just blowin’ smoke rings.

Is there a right and wrong?
Yes.

Right is what you perceive to be right.
Wrong is what you perceive to be wrong.

@linguaphile While it may be a way of life to some, time and perspective, IMHO, do not change the ideas of right or wrong. I believe torture was wrong in the 1500’s just as it is today. Slavery was wrong pre civil war in America, just as it is considered now.

Comparing torture, or in my example slavery, with things like drug use is illogical. One is something one does to ones self and the other is a will imposed on another human. We could get into the effects of drug use on society but that is another topic all together. I would not go so far as to say drug use is always wrong, but rape of a 3 year old always is and always has been no matter what ones perspective of it may be.

Ideas of right and wrong can be as slippery as a bag as a bag of eels that’s why the important ones are carved into stone and written into law. Human beings always find ways to justify what they want to do.

As someone who just finished up my January-long intensive ethics course required by my college, I’d like to point out that my brain is entirely full of fuck right now.

Right or wrong is determined by a person’s conscience.
Definition of “Conscience”:
1. the inner sense of what is right or wrong in one’s conduct or motives, impelling one toward right action: to follow the dictates of conscience.
2. the complex of ethical and moral principles that controls or inhibits the actions or thoughts of an individual.
So, it really does depend on what the person believes in, therefore, a matter of perception.

@missingbite
I used marijuana as a possible example of how society changes in perspective with no intended comparability to torture. However, since you pulled them together to make your point… I disagree with you about drugs vs. torture—it has been my experience that people with drug problems (not occasional users) are black holes that pull everyone into their self-destruction. It becomes torture to their parents, seeing them in and out of jail. It’s not as victimless as it seems. To me, based on what I know to be true, drug abuse and torture are not incomparable- both are destructive. To you it’s illogical. We’re discussing perspectives.

Now about the rape—I agree that a rape of a 3 year old is wrong. But wait, consider this: their bodies are invaded way before they are able to even consider consent. Wrong? Yes, absolutely.

What if I tell you that it is profoundly, thoroughly wrong to surgically implant a 3 year old with electrodes that come with the risk of permanent nerve paralysis, a lifetime of tinnitus, among many other risks? Their little bodies are invaded way before they are able to even consider consent. Wrong? I bet you this—millions of people will tell me I am the one who’s wrong.

The difference is that our society’s connotation of “rape” is the most demonic, nasty and horrid thing that could happen to a person. Our society’s connotation of “medical implants” is that they are beneficial, regardless of the risk. Invasion without consent… wrong? Not always. You say they’re not comparable? I say they are. We’re back to perspectives.

My point? I really, truly do understand what you mean by innate wrongness or rightness, but I do not agree that innate wrongness or rightness exists. I wish it did- it would make things easier, but the problem is, who decides what’s fundamentally right or wrong? Society? Religion? The medical industry? Where does the cache of “rightness” and “wrongness” rest?

I can fight, scream and shout that something I know, not believe, but know to be indisputably wrong is wrong, but in actual daily practice, it’s not going to make any difference if the rest of the world thinks they’re right.

Yes, the words right and wrong describe behavior that is either in your best interest, or not in your best interest. What behavior? That is entirely situational.

@linguaphile Like I said, I won’t get into the effects of drug use on society as that is another topic.

However, If I am reading what you wrote correctly, you are equating a surgically implanted device into a 3 year old for life saving purposes or health benefits with parental consent with rape? Hopefully I didn’t understand your post. But if I am right, then yes I will agree most logical people would disagree with you. As far as I know, parents must give consent for surgically implanted devices and if it is done for nothing but the adults pleasure, that would be akin to torture. Might there be side effects, sure, but if it is done for the better of the child, so be it. I would rather be alive with nerve damage than not. IMHO.

Your last paragraph goes right back to tell me that you do believe in right and wrong as the OP asked. Just like we know torture is and was wrong. It just may take, and did, decades for the rest of the world to agree and find it unacceptable.

Like I think you are saying and we can agree, just because something is acceptable, doesn’t make it right. Just because it is not acceptable, doesn’t make it wrong.

Off to VEGAS!! Have fun this weekend everyone!

Yes, there are such things as right and wrong, objectively, rationally and personally.

I do not believe in the existence of objective morality; that said, I do think we are “wired” to hold certain truths to be self-evident, and in some cases this “wiring” is so pervasive that it exists almost uniformly. Other than small numbers of outliers, we are basically made to want to be part of a tribe, and being in a tribe means being able to coexist. So I think it is reasonable to treat laws that enable us to coexist as objectively moral for all intents and purposes. These are ideas like don’t kill people. Don’t hurt people. Don’t take other people’s property.

Beyond the basic stuff, it’s a lot more nebulous. We’re not all wired to think that capitalism is awesome. We’re not all wired to think welfare is right. That doesn’t mean opinions on these matters are any less valid, it just means you can’t expect everyone to agree on them. They are subjective.

Subjective morality is a meaningless construction. For example, forcing someone to have sex with you against their will is wrong. If there are cultures where that behavior is acceptable, then they are wrong. Slavery, murder, torture, using others as human shields, oppression, etc. are all examples of things that will always be wrong independent of anyone to interpret those acts.

@gorillapaws

I whole-heartedly agree with you on that, but what is the basis for your “non-subjective morality?”

@missingbite No, I’m not talking about “life saving surgeries” but optional surgeries.

Have fun in Vegas!

@CaptainHarley well that’s the real trick isn’t it? :)

The philosophy of ethics is far from settled, but I like Rawls’ approach the best. It’s a good starting point, but there are edge cases in every moral theory. It’s by no means the final word on the subject, but it’s lightyears ahead of “fuck it, choose for yourself.”

There is such a thing as right and wrong and they are people’s perceptions.

People that do not believe in right or wrong, for instance, are often wrong.

Let me exemplify:
Raping a three year old boy is wrong, and I challenge anyone that thinks different.
They would be wrong.

@whitenoise I don’t think anyone on this thread is saying they don’t believe in right or wrong, and nobody disagreed that raping a child is wrong, but the OP gives us a this or that question and that has guided this discussion.

By saying it is an and situation not an or situation, you pretty much solved it all.

lol @whitenoise nice.

hey! I said it first @linguaphile don’t give whitenoise all the credit :P haha

@ninjacolin My apologies, I must’ve missed that…

haha, no worries. @whitenoise was more clear.

Yes, there is. Right is what applies the Golden Rule. Wrong is what violates it.