Atheist, if your child found God, would you discourage them?

If my child found god I’d make them take a picture of it to sell to times magazine.

Depends on what you mean by discourage.

I’d expect her to be able to defend her position if challenged, but I’d expect that of all her worldviews. If she can’t, I’d ask her to think more and learn more about what it is that she claims to be embracing.

With respect to outward versus inward displays, my primary concern would be the worldview itself, not the trappings.

I would let them find their own path, even if it includes God, but if they start down the road towards close-minded fundamentalism, then we’ll have a talk. I’m not afraid of my kids finding their own path, but am afraid of them falling victims to brainwashing.

My son experienced that—he joined a church ominously named ‘The River’ and they functioned more like a cult. I had a talk with him where I told him I didn’t mind him finding his spiritual path, but before he embarked, that there are certain things he should know: what a cult was, how they functioned, how psychological traps work, etc and never to choose a church that tells him to shun or reject his parents and explained how this was a form of seclusion to build membership. I also explained how seclusion worked on peoples’ minds. 2 weeks later, he quit when they told him his parents needed to be shut out.

Nope, if it helped him/her get on in life and gain courage, good for him/her. I could not impose my convictions on him/her.

The weight of turning your kids from God while you were finding your place in the grand scale of things is heavy. To each his own.

I heard that most kids love their mother but find it hard to prove that they do

Of course I would not discourage them or forbid them. But as @AdamF, I also would not shy away from the topic, and would expect her to be able to defend the position. Note: In other words, I would treat it just like any other belief my child might have.

Disclaimer: I have had religious conversations here on fluther that have seemed to offend/enrage some people here. So, I warn that the following paragraph may be one of these cases. If you are easily offended, don’t read. If you are not easily offended and are willing to listen to someone honestly express his concerns for his children, read on…

While I would support and love my kids in this situation, I would admittedly be inwardly concerned and worried. Let me try to explain. Lets say my daughter came home one day convinced that it only rained because aliens, who are monitoring us, realize we need water for our crops and have built large sky irrigation systems. Ok, so we’d talk about this and I would expect her to be able defend the position. Let’s say that she just felt I was being closed-minded and that believing that these aliens were out there and concerned for our well-being gave her life meaning and happiness. And let’s say that after much discussion, we agree to disagree about this. I love her unconditionally, and nothing has changed.

However, I would be extremely concerned about her because I would see this as a kind of “bug” or glitch in her ability to discern reality and critically think. Where else might this glitch become apparent or exploited? Might someone be able to use this glitch to exploit her personally or politically in the future? What other beliefs about reality might be informed by this rain/alien belief, and what will be the consequences?

Note: Also, I would be much more open to my kids “finding god” once their brains were more mature. If my daughter home during college or after college to tell me that she was a Christian, I would be much more comfortable. Much more.

@tom_g Agreed. I can imagine that I’d be less worried about my daughter being manipulated if she found god when older, but I think my other concerns would be pretty similar.

@graynett “I heard that most kids love their mother but find it hard to prove that they do”

Not sure how meaningul that comparison is. There’s little room to doubt that kids exist; As does their propensity to exhibit behaviour that is consistent with what we define as “love”, not to mention we have a capacity to measure levels of relevant hormones like oxytocin,vasopressin,etc. and compare the effects of such hormones through manipulation experiments on adults and other mammals.

In comparison, god hasn’t even managed to leave the starter block of established existence, let alone meeting minimal standards for acceptable behaviour, or love for that matter (at least as described in many religions).

I would accept and love them no matter what. I would not push the, my house my rules, control on them. I would ask that we would respect each others beliefs .

God would be fine. Theism does not bother me, but I might ask my teen what they believe and why. Depending on what their answers were, I would gauge what to ask and say. I might forbid them from going to a certain church, and communicate to them how much I dislike certain beliefs, again depends what is bringing on this belief in God. If they wanted to explore Judaism, I am an atheist Jew, I would be fine with that, and Catholicism also, but my kids would know what I believe, and know how much I dislike religious fanaticism.

If they were saying they were interested in being Christian (I am excluding Catholicism for this question, and mentioning Chrisianity because it is the most likely in my country) it would bother me, especially if she was being told, or beginning to believe, Christianity is the only right way. If she were preteen and came out with wanting to be Christian, my assumption would be some Christian is working on her, and that would really piss me off. I would call the other child’s parents and tell them they have crossed a line if I felt like it was going too far. I hate the word forbid, because I think sometimes children do the opposite then, but I have a hard time believing a child of mine would want to go anyway.

A relative of mine used to be very open on these things. When her kids were little she used to say she thinks it’s fine to learn about different religions, and her kids can decide when they are older. She is from Mexico, and for the most part everyone was Catholic in her circles, although half the family is Jewish. I told her once, “I am not as open as you, I don’t want my kids exposed to other religions until they are older.” I would be completely fine with my kids celebrating Christmas with a friend, or having dinner with a Muslim friend on one of their holidays, no problem at all with them playing with friends from every different religion and nationality, but not ok with other children or adults preaching their word, there should be a feeling among their peers that each child is what their parents have raised them to be at such a young age in my opinion. Anyway, this same relative, last I saw her, her high school aged daughter had received some Christian sort of invitation, and this suppossed relative of mine who used to be so open, said something in disgust, sort of making fun of the Christians who do this sort of soliciting. I really think living in America, in a town that is borderline biblebelt, has really changed her tune. Her old views have changed now that she better understand what goes on. She has become much more closed like me. She is a theist and a Catholic.

I would stage an intervention.

Great question. It reminds me of a scene for “The Good Wife”. The daughter Grace secretly goes to church and gets baptized in the Catholic church. Because she does this in secret and people think she is missing and was kidnapped. The whole idea freaks the parents out and she is forbidden from joining and suddenly she is wisked back into her old school (where I assume their must be no christians) because public school is a bad influence. The kids are back in their old fancy school and for Grace any idea of religion is suddenly out of her mind. Great story line but stupid results. As if teens listen that well when they are convinced of something.

It is their choice for their life. It does not have to align with mine.

I would force them to become a Muslim.

I spent a large portion of my adult life as an atheist, and many of my friends were also atheists, so this subject came up as we started to have families. All of the atheists, including myself, had no problem with the idea of our children exploring a theistic faith. We were, of course, adamantly against the idea of our children joining cults or destructive fundamental sects of any religion, but then my religious friends felt the same way. No surprise there.
The anti-theists that I knew, however, were violently opposed to the idea of their children finding any kind of theistic faith.

@tom_g: I am curious. Often on these threads you liken theism to invisible bears, elves in the night, and in this case aliens with water. Does this mean that A) Your understanding of theology is really as unsophisticated as that of a slightly simple 6 year old child or B) that you feel that those of us who participate in these discussions have an understanding of theology that is as unsophisticated as that of a slightly simple 6 year old child?

I would be really upset, but I would still let them do what they want, unless of course it went too far. Like trying to baptize me in my sleep or getting involved in some Wicker Man stuff. Lol.

Nope, I’d let them head down their merry path but if they try to start converting people, we’re having a very thorough talk.

On the flip-side… I am a Christian and my 13 year old claims he is an Atheist.
The way I see it, that is his choice.

@tom_g Love your post. Bravo.

Yes, for the same reason I’d discourage a belief in astrology, homeopathy, an obsession with the Twilight series, or—perhaps most relevant to the content of the Bible—misogyny and tribalism.

But not as a precondition of love, help, or guidance.

Of course, I don’t want kids in the first place.

I would encourage them to talk about anything “they found”. And in that talking, they become more aware of their discovery. And in that awareness, they make better decisions.

I wouldn’t discourage it, as long as my atheism isn’t discouraged by them. Simple as that.

I would probably feel like a failure, and regret not having talked more about religion when the child was growing up. I would tell them about my experiences, and that I hoped they reconsidered… but it’s their choice. And kids like to explore new territory, idea-wise. I’d let them have their own journey, and hope they made it back to rationalism eventually.

@JilltheTooth Do you think that the level of “sophistication” of a belief has any relationship to its likelihood of being true?

@AdamF : I’m not going to have that discussion. I was specifically addressing the manner in which @tom_g continually addresses the topic

@JilltheTooth, I don’t mean to speak for Tom G, but I wonder what you mean by “sophistication.” My view is that the character Yahweh described in the Bible is clearly fictional in the same sense that goblins and little gray men are fictional.

However, some people have an idea of God that has nothing to do with this guy Yahweh, that is more akin to the Force from Star Wars, and is often described in exceedingly vague terms like “higher power” or “connectedness” that at best tangentally intersect characteristics of deities described by human religions. Is this what you mean?

I do would not call it “sophistication”. All those elaborate traditions, myths and stories are nothing more than window dressing to me intended to distract from the ludicrous core.

@JilltheTooth What @Qingu said.^

You can’t expect people to be reverent of religious ideology when they think that it is fiction. That’s very unrealistic. In my mind, god is every bit as real and relevant as an elf or an alien. That will sometimes come out in my writing, here and elsewhere.

I guess that the knee-jerk kicked in for you guys before my post was either fully read or fully comprehended. My comment to tom-g clearly go back and look used the word theology, which, whether one is a person of faith or not has been a well-respected field of study for a very long time. I made no demands on anyone to “be reverent of” anything been here too long to expect that.

I’d respect their choice, end of story.
What makes parents think their kids are minions and they have any right, whatsoever, to “discourage” them from pursuing whatever it is that they find interest in?
Can you spell controlling narcissist?
You will be a mirror of my thoughts, beliefs, opinions!” Bah!

Nobody needs to “defend” their personal spiritual beliefs and practices. Seriously, any parent that takes issue, aside from some clearly psycho cult situation needs to check their egos at the door.

@JilltheTooth I did read your post, and I like to think I am clever enough to understand it. Your comment left room for only two options for people who liken god to fairy tale creatures: you think that @tom_g‘s thoughts on the subject are unsophisticated, or if they aren’t, then he must have the same feelings about you. Either way, the remark was insulting to @tom_g. As someone who has made similar remarks on fluther and elsewhere, I assume you mean to insult me as well, and tried to explain my own rationale for that analogy. And now you are further insulting me by saying that I can’t or won’t read your post, am making a “knee-jerk” reaction, and don’t know what theology is? Who exactly is behaving like a 6-year old here?

I’m in complete agreement with @Coloma. Our youngest son started to explore religion when he was in middle school (early teens). He attended a youth group and services with a friend of his. We respected his decision and encouraged him to do what he felt was right for him. It’s what a parent should do.

Oh, good grief, I addressed a remark to @tom_g . My tone was annoyed, not insulting. I meant it exactly as written; be offended, don’t be offended, I was a fool to assume that anything posted in a Q that included the word “atheist” in it could go long without all this stuff. I freely admit to my own idiocy.

@JilltheTooth, have to agree with @dappled_leaves. I didn’t make a knee-jerk response, I know what theology is; I studied it for 3 years in college. If you’d like to discuss what you think “sophisticated theology” means, by all means, go ahead.

I don’t have kids but very hypothetically, I would accept their decision if they were really adamant about it. I would also ask them why and what has made them choose to believe in god.

Partly out of curiosity, but also to make sure they understand there are two sides and more to every story and that you can believe in your own kind of personal god without having to subscribe to a religion.

I would not discourage it, no. Just as I wouldn’t want religious parents trying to force their religion on their child who has chosen an atheistic path. And we all know that never ever happens.~

I don’t think I would “raise my children atheist”; I would just leave it neutral and I would voice my own beliefs if they asked, but I wouldn’t try and make my beliefs theirs. I would let them develop their own. Apparently for many, that’s uncommon and radical thinking.

“Kids are great. You can teach them to hate the stuff you hate!” -Homer Simpson

Teenagers get bizarre ideas. I think I’d tell them I didn’t agree, but I’d still give them a ride to their meetings. Maybe they’d outgrow it. Never seemed to me that it helped much to be too strident about anything with kids. If you plop down on one side of an issue, they’ve only got one side left they can take.

If they started condoning violence and justifying it by religious views, of course, I’d beat their ass! ~

As for the WWJD apparrel, I might ask them not to wear it at the dinner table.

—@JilltheTooth: “Does this mean that A) Your understanding of theology is really as unsophisticated as that of a slightly simple 6 year old child or B) that you feel that those of us who participate in these discussions have an understanding of theology that is as unsophisticated as that of a slightly simple 6 year old child?”

I am not sure I understand both the content and the intention of this question. Theology? The original question that I replied to was asking us atheists what we would do/feel if our kids “found god”. I presented a disclaimer for people who might be sensitive to my honest thoughts on the issue, and you asked presented me a question with 2 possible answers – neither of which I feel comfortable with choosing, because I don’t understand your question.

This could be off-topic or derailing the original question.

I would be fine with their choice. I would definitely discuss it with them, but who am I to judge? People need to go out there and conjure up their own beliefs. I’d still love them no matter what.

Fluther: the site where people come to insult in the most intelligent of ways. Where it’s not an insult if you don’t understand it.

Huge tongue-in-cheek… :P

Knee-jerk reaction: how would that ever happen? Normal reaction: sure, I don’t care what they believe as long as they don’t begin to use their new beliefs to belittle women or queer people, etc.

I don’t think that this would be the same thing as asking a religionist if they would be accepting of their kid/s practicing another religion. I say this because I don’t see atheism as a belief system, but rather a lack of a position which would mean to be open-minded. Some people can turn atheism into a religion but that doesn’t make atheism as a philosophy in itself a religion. As a nonreligious person I would answer this by saying that I’d be more concerned with political propaganda and the motivations for their decision rather than the religion itself.

I think the question can be generalized, because “religion” is such a fuzzy term to begin with.

Really, the question is “how would you deal with your kid forming beliefs that you find to be wrong, immoral, dangerous, or a combination thereof”?

The answer is going to depend a great deal on the degree. I imagine most atheists wouldn’t have a problem with their kids becoming Unitarians. Lutherans? Eh. Hard-core evangelical Christians who believe America is a Christian nation and God gave us oil? Atheists might have a problem with their kids believing that. Islamic suicide bombers? Atheists would very likely have a problem with that. But I imagine atheists (and any parents) would also have problems—to varying degrees—with their kids forming different beliefs about women’s rights, about politics, about vegetarianism, about any other controversial issue, really.

I can’t imagine it happening but I wouldn’t discourage it unless God appeared to be a bad influence on her.

I will leave it up to them to decide as long as they respect my views I will respect theirs. Don’t get me wrong I will ask them a few questions as to where these beliefs originated to make sure nothing untoward was occurring.

I also just wanted to point out that I meant I would be upset if my child was religious, not just believing in god. I have no problem with people that believe in god, but a certain level of religion just isn’t beneficial in my opinion.

No. They would eventually grow out of it. But in the meantime, if they asked me for money, I would tell them to pray for it instead.

Nope, I’m all for independent thought when it comes to choosing religious viewpoints, and trying to force my child one way or another is hardly productive to that end. Quite counterproductive, actually.

And besides, I haven’t a problem at all with the belief in a god as a standalone viewpoint. Only if it were paired with any kind of hateful or discriminatory thinking towards homosexuals or people outside a certain religion or any other group would I feel a need to intervene.

I wouldn’t discourage them. I would even encourage them, if that’s what they really believe and want. I’d certainly discuss it with them and explain why I personally don’t believe, but not in a way that would hint at trying to discourage them.
If they joined some religious establishment, I would want to be aware of it though.

A belief in (a) god itself wouldn’t bother me overly much, but joining a religion might. Depends on the religion, its practices and dogma, etc. It would also depend on the age (really, the maturity level) of the child in question.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that people raised without a belief system have a less than 20% chance of adopting a belief system later in life. Isn’t that kind of like raising a child as an atheist?

@GracieT I’d say it’s very different. Raising a child atheist would be actively attempting to instill the belief that there is no god in your child. Raising a child without a belief system implies not actively instilling any beliefs.

If you mean an underage child, I would just let it pass. If you mean an adult child, I would applaud his efforts.

lol, they’d be in so much trouble.

@Mat74UK Haha! I initially misread the first part of your response as ”... as long as they respect my wives…”

A child comes home and tells his/her parent about belief X, which may or may not be held to be true by some of the child’s friends, or parents of friends, or local street evangelists, or the child’s teacher, other family members, etc.. The child expresses a willingness to believe X based on his/her understanding. The parent believes that X is untrue, unsubstantiated, nonsensical, etc based on his/her understanding.

Are some of you suggesting that it would be inappropriate/wrong/narcissistic for the parent to have a discussion with their child about the potential problems with belief in X, just because X happened to fall within the boundaries of a spiritual/theistic/religious belief?

No..children have free-will too, if it doesn’t put them in danger I don’t see why it would be any of your business..

@AdamF Well, when you say it like that…...lol.

@Blackberry Yeah, it’s the X’s that make it convincing… :p

I’m not going to have kids so this is not a problem I am likely to face. But I am an atheist that formally outed herself to my close family. Some of my family was really disturbed by this. My mother was terrified for my soul and she actively tried to reconvert me. This is what had to happen. As a parent with her beliefs to do anything else would be a betrayal of her love for me. The same would be true of a skeptic neglecting to confront what they saw as irrational beliefs in their child.

Neither the theist nor the atheist parent can force their progeny to adopt their views. But if they truly care they will confront them and force the youth to address the faults and dangers that may lie with their new views, and likewise the child should challenge the parent on their own views. Whether or not the youth’s (or the parent’s) views are realigned this discussion has to take place. It allows the two to understand each-other and establishes a level of respect and openness that demonstrates that even if you can’t agree, you can still talk.

I still laugh and cry simultaneously that some atheists have to actually “out” themselves.

@Blackberry It’s selective with me. It would poison some of my relationships if the other knew I was an atheist.

Indeed. There are still people I haven’t told. I recently lied about it as well. Someone had the audacity to ask me at work. Then, he says “Oh ok good, I didn’t think you were like that.”

sheesh. I’m sorry to hear you were put in that position.

@Blackberry “I didn’t think you were like that”

Ouch.

@Mariah, thank you! I honestly didn’t see that (I confess I really didn’t try hard though) distinction.

I think @Qingu point is really the heart of the matter. This discussion could happen outside of religion also. We could also ask religious, theist, parents what they would do if their children became atheists, or interested in the “beliefs” of atheists, what would they do? A lot of the parents with more extreme beliefs would probably be pretty unhappy about it and try to do something about it, while people more moderate in beliefs would be less reactive. I have a friend who is 45 years old, I don’t know if he is an atheist or theist, but I know he stopped following the doctrine of his parents religion long long ago, and he still gets letters from his mom about her concern he won’t be saved in the end. They are Baptists, born again Christians.

Another friend of mine was raised Jehovah, and her parents still encourage her to go to church, and she knows they dissapprove of her lifestyle. She calls herself a Christian, but she still on certain holidays goes to church, Jehovah church, mostly because of her parents pressure I think. Her parents will not let it go, even though she is in her 40’s and basically fell away from the church over 20 years ago. Last Christmas she had her first Christmas tree, and she called me and said she was waiting for the lightening bolt to strike in her condo. Lol.

@JLeslie, if you mean a Jehovah’s Witness, they don’t attend a “church” and are not members of a church. They call the place where they attend services a Kingdom Hall. I was corrected on that once a long time ago and it has stuck with me. Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t celebrate holidays except the Memorial of Christ’s Death, similar to mainstream’s Easter holiday. Also, Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t communicate or have very little (in the case of a close family member) communication with anyone who has disassociated themselves from their fellowship.

@bkcunningham Yeah, I know. I kind of use church synonomously with place of worship, probably should not do that. I even do it sometimes regarding Jews and Muslims in sentences when I am just generalizing about religions. It’s incorrect. Probably, technically, my girlfriend should be shunned, but her family has not, and I don’t think ever would shun her. They just live kind of in their parent bubble. Plus, they live states away, so my girlfriend goes along with what they want when they visit each other generally speaking.

The greek word for church just means assembly. :)

@JLeslie “Last Christmas she had her first Christmas tree, and she called me and said she was waiting for the lightening bolt to strike in her condo.”

I hope you told her she just had to plug it in.

If one of my children “found god” I would question her to insure that she hadn’t been suckered into one of the many christian cults. Otherwise, I would ask why she felt the need an if there was something that I had done or not done to make her join her particular religious club.

Fortunately none of my children or grand children have fallen into that trap. My grandson, when he was 4 went to a summer bible camp with some of his friends. He came home with a nice little picture that he drew that said ‘Praise the Lorb”. We still have it on the refrigerator. That’s as close as our family actually got to religion although we have a couple preachers and priests as family friends.

@AdamF Depends on what you mean by discourage. Pretty much run interference, try to block any worshiping, paying, displays of crosses, devotion, etc. Basically keep the “Godliness” shelved.

@tom_g However, I would be extremely concerned about her because I would see this as a kind of “bug” or glitch in her ability to discern reality and critically think. Where else might this glitch become apparent or exploited? How many different things that can be attributed to. Some of those traits one can attributed to would have more of a leaning of science or nature to bolster it as well. However, that still doesn’t stop people from being offended.

@dappled_leaves I would probably feel like a failure, and regret not having talked more about religion when the child was growing up. Which is why I was careful not to mention religion but to say God. Religion is more or less created of man, there can be religions completely devoid of God.

@JilltheTooth I did read your post, and I like to think I am clever enough to understand it. Your comment left room for only two options for people who liken god to fairy tale creatures: you think that @tom_g‘s thoughts on the subject are unsophisticated, or if they aren’t, then he must have the same feelings about you. Either way, the remark was insulting to @tom_g. What can come off insulting I guess is the beholder or the hearer. If you take @tom_g soliloquy and swapped out believe in a entity you can’t see, touch, or put in a bottle with gender peculiarity, sexual identity, etc, many would be offended as to what it might be trying to say about them.

@Qingu I think the question can be generalized, because “religion” is such a fuzzy term to begin with. Again, that is why I didn’t use religion, there are too many and which one would I refer too? They are all too different.

@Ron_C If one of my children “found god” I would question her to insure that she hadn’t been suckered into one of the many christian cults. Why would finding God have to be equal to being suckered? If I were to say to a daughter of mine who in Jr. high decides she is a lesbian give her the 3rd degree because I believed she was ”suckered” into it by some whacked out hedonistic teens, you would give that a pass as valid?

@Hypocrisy_Central: “How many different things that can be attributed to. Some of those traits one can attributed to would have more of a leaning of science or nature to bolster it as well.”

I am not following you here. Could you explain?

@Hypocrisy_Central I believe that being suckered into a christian cult is much more destructive that deciding that you are homosexual. Regardless, I would question either stance. I would want to know why she thought she was a christian and or a lesbian. The way I see it is that if you cannot defend your position, you do not really understand that position.

Personally, I would rather she be homosexual than religious. Organized religion is just a structure to control people and can be totally destructive.

@tom_g I am not following you here. Could you explain? There are many things which people follow and believe that has no scientific bases. Superstition is one. If someone actually believed driving a silver vehicle in a thunderstorm would surely attract lightening, people might think that person odd, bit not necessarily defective in the mind, or having a “bug” or glitch in their mentality for instance.

@Ron_C @Hypocrisy_Central I believe that being suckered into a christian cult is much more destructive that deciding that you are homosexual. That is certainly one’s own prerogative, and one that people have the right to have even if they believe in the opposite.

Personally, I would rather she be homosexual than religious. Being religious is not paramount to having God. I would not care for any child of mine to merely be religious, because you can be religious in things that are devoid of God. I can’t say that would be worse to me than if they were not straight, because where people see apples and oranges, I see Washing ton apples vs. golden delicious.

@Hypocrisy_Central: “There are many things which people follow and believe that has no scientific bases. Superstition is one. If someone actually believed driving a silver vehicle in a thunderstorm would surely attract lightening, people might think that person odd, bit not necessarily defective in the mind, or having a “bug” or glitch in their mentality for instance..”

I would consider this a “bug” and I would be very concerned. I’m not sure you read my comments on this, which were my expressions of my concerns for my child.

@tom_g I would consider this a “bug” and I would be very concerned. How would that be more of a bug than believing that our great grandfathers 20 removed were apes, especially when there are still apes today? There are also still single-celled organisms also, you’d think they would have evolved by now.

^^ I hope you’re joking. You do realize that what you have typed shows a complete misunderstanding of evolution, right? Not understanding basic scientific concepts is pretty much inexcusable at this point. Even a 5-minute visit to wikipedia should be enough to keep comments like this from happening.

If dogs came from wolves, why are there still wolves?
Checkmate, dog breeders!

@Hypocrisy_Central We did not come from the apes you see today. Modern apes and humans share a common ancestor.