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tom_g's avatar

Let’s say for a moment that there were no political/financial implications of climate science. Do you feel that you’d be particularly interested in this topic? Are you currently in a lather about some other area of science? How do you generally approach political controversies that are framed as scientific controversies? Do you engage in the politics of it and acknowledge that there is no scientific controversy? Or do you interpret political controversy as scientific controversy?

marinelife's avatar

Global warming was not an idea. It is a scientific fact. It has not yet been dealt with on a sufficient scale to stop its progress.

AdamF's avatar


Perhaps the real “idea bubble” is the one that blocks so many people’s perception of reality from getting anywhere near reality

wundayatta's avatar

The next idea bubble will be the idea that conservatives have anything constructive or even credible to offer the national debate. Shouting may grab people’s attention at first, but eventually people will begin to notice that there is no substance behind the bloviation.

Blackberry's avatar

This is our current idea bubble, which can be summed up by Isaac Asimov:

“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that ’my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge’.”

Zaku's avatar

@Blackberry That’s a great quote. I can’t think of a better answer to this question!

gondwanalon's avatar

Perhaps the next idea bubble will be Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles.

I don’t think that the bubble will ever pop for some global warming true believers. Global warming is like a religion to some good and caring folks and they will hang on to their beliefs even if an ice age occurs and a glacier engulfs the entire planet.

Another economic bubble might be the gold bubble. In 2003 gold was about $300/oz. From August 2011 to present gold has been bouncing around between $1500 and $1900 per ounce. I’ve got a feeling that something is about to give. Perhaps a big country like China or even the USA might sell a massive amount of their gold supply to flood the market and drive the price way down and then buy it all back cheap.

tom_g's avatar

@gondwanalon: “I don’t think that the bubble will ever pop for some global warming true believers. Global warming is like a religion to some good and caring folks and they will hang on to their beliefs even if an ice age occurs and a glacier engulfs the entire planet.”

Can you imagine for a minute what this must sound like to working climate scientists who study this stuff? They work for years trying to disprove their colleagues, but the growing amount of data just confirms what we know about global climate. Science isn’t a bunch of people jacking each other off. It’s competitive and it’s to your advantage to find fault with the data. It’s self-correcting, and it goes where the evidence leads. So, say you’re a scientist and you come home to some dullard spouting off on Fox News (or on Fluther) about how it’s “like a religion” or about “beliefs”.

[edit: sorry. not that my post here was especially insightful. I had to just stop typing though. Can’t finish what I was trying to say. Got to go…]

ETpro's avatar

Global Warming has advanced so far now that even the most pig-headed Con men such as the Koch brothers will be affected to the point they will have to confront it. You can insist you live on Fantasy Island, but unfortunately, Mr. Rourke isn’t anywhere around and won’t be able to make your wishes into reality for you.

Like @tom_g this is just to put a toe in the water. I have to run as well. More factual post later.

amujinx's avatar

Saying people who care about global warming are acting like a religion is ludicrous. There is hard evidence that global warming is happening. Denying that climate scientists have found facts based on your beliefs goes right back to @Blackberry‘s quote about anti-intellectualism. Even climatologists who think that global warming is a natural process and has nothing to do with us agree the earth is still warming.

ETpro's avatar

@amujinx What’s even more silly is saying that Al Gore is using his vast fortune Gore is worth something north of $35 million. Granted that’s not chump change, but the global fossil fuel industry is worth $37 trillion per year. The Saudi Royal Family is personally worth $1 trillion. In the US, we have the Koch Brothers, worth $43 billion, donate massive wealth to right-wing causes including junk science “institutes” that publish a constant stream of disinformation, grants to US Universities that agree to support a junk science curriculum and publish junk science papers, and a 50 state network of right-wing think tanks that churn out white papers filled with spin and disinformation about climate science We have Exon Mobil, Shell Oil, Koch Industries and all the rest of the massive fossil fuel industry.

When the climate science deniers are able to outspend their competition by 1,000,000 to 1, who is going to have more Web sites promoting their point of view? Bear in mind that, while it is possible to win a political debate with less money than your opponent, at least 83% of the time the candidate with the most money wins. What do you expect when the advantage is well above $1,000,000 to $1?

Unfortunately, no matter how many people once believed the Earth was flat, reality never complied with beliefs. Beliefs are irrelevant in the universe of facts. Dollars spent selling your ideas are irrelevant. Number of websites promoting your ideology is irrelevant. Only truth controls future events.

So what are the facts? First, let’s debunk of all the denier claims. Regardless of how often they are debunked, like zombies, they keep coming back.

Now, some facts that are, indeed, inconvenient truths. Here is info on global temperatures over the past 1,000 years. Here are temperature spikes and valleys over the Here is 5 million years of climate change. Yes, the temperature was warmer 5 million years ago, but there was no human activity adding over 30 billion tons of CO2 to the atmosphere each year. The buildup is due to the fact that the atmospheric half life of CO2 is 31 years.

CO2 is known to be a greenhouse gas with an atmospheric half life of . Here is a chart showing how it has varied over the last 400,000 years. There is nothing but human activity to explain the rapid rise in atmospheric CO2.

What has this caused so far? Here’s a great TED video showing the truth. Glaciers can’t be bribed.

Qingu's avatar

@saint, your articles refer mostly to technological innovations that are alternatives to fossil fuel-based technology that have failed in the marketplace (a marketplace dominated by the way by fossil fuel interests).

I fail to see what this has to do with the scientific fact of global warming. Have you actually thought this through?

gondwanalon's avatar

You all are so high-flying and adorable! Good for you! Gotta love ya!

May no one ever pop your bubble!

tom_g's avatar

@gondwanalon – Did you just respond to all of these facts and arguments presented above with a big middle finger? How about, “You guys gave something to think about” or “It’s clear that we still disagree, and I can see now that it’s not ‘like a religion’ for you, but here is why I feel it is reasonable to be a climate change denialist…”?

How was your response helpful? Is the fact that you were unable to respond with content present you with even a slight hesitation?

AdamF's avatar

@gondwanalon “May no one ever pop your bubble!”

It’s kind of hard to pop those bubbles that are built on decades of peer-reviewed scientific evidence. But they can be popped.

It just requires the contrarians to match their overwhelmingly vacuous rhetoric, with some overwhelming scientific evidence.

Suffice to say, that hasn’t happened; and it is exceedingly unlikely that it ever will.

Blackberry's avatar

You’re all so high flying and adorable with your fancy physics and evidence. You can believe in that bubble all you want, but one day your physical universe will become a huge supernatural universe, you just wait!

Blackberry's avatar

Screw vaccinations, my love and prayers will keep my child safe. Yipee!

ETpro's avatar

@gondwanalon & @saint I think we have just seen true religion vs. science.

Response moderated (Flame-Bait)

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