Is there evidence that the notion of "social justice" is actually an excuse for ineptitude, incompetence, and vice?

No.

No. In all of history people have lied to gain a personal advantage.

@ragingloli That is my point. Lying is a pretty consistent veil for ineptitude, incompetence and vice.

@josie
It is more an indictment of selfishness and greed, the basis of capitalism, than it is of social justice.

@ragingloli
Did you check out the link? I am not following you. I have always been a little slow on the uptake. On the other hand, are we talking about the same thing?

@josie: ” Among these special considerations is the assumption that a woman’s accusation of rape is prima facie evidence of the fact.”

I’ll just respond to this particular statement, as I don’t see exactly how this ties in with the rest of the “social justice” stuff. I am not sure if this is an accurate statement. However, I am aware that there are less-than-honest women who have succeeded in getting an innocent man arrested on false charges. I actually knew a woman in college who confided in me that she was seriously considering a rape accusation against her exboyfriend to get him in trouble and expelled from school.

That said, these cases are a result of the fact that men rape women. Don’t feel victimized by women – the culprit here is men. The actions of men have set up a situation in which the occasional man will get falsely accused. Mr. Frat Boy and your local priest sent Thomas Edward Kennedy to prison as much or more than Cassandra Kennedy.

Oh, and how does this tie in with the “social justice” stuff?

@josie
I interpreted your question as the claim that “social justice”‘s goal is to protect, and give undue advantage, to evil, lazy and stupid people and used the the girl who lied about the rape out of vengeance as an example of the sort of people “social justice” knowingly wants to protect.
Social Justice is not about giving an advantage to people, but to ensure equality in treatment and opportunities. So, to pick up on the example of women claiming to have been raped, the goal is not to consider the accuser’s claim as evidence of the fact, because that would just reverse the situation of unequal treatment, but to make sure that the claim of rape is investigated, first, at all, and second, thorougly and honestly. Your particular case is in actuality an example of what “social justice” aims to avoid.

Now, as for capitalism, it actually favours those who lie, cheat and show a general ruthlessness in order to advance and who then put themselves into a position to exploit those who are honest, competent and hardworking.
So, one can reasonably make the counter claim that in actuality, it is capitalism that is the excuse for ineptitude, incompetence (both referring to the actual productive processes), and vice (and competence in vice), and not “social justice”.

@ragingloli
Well, thanks for clarifying.

Ugh. Questions like this make me feel so frustrated and hopeless. It’s like we’re living on two completely different planets. I want to make a reasonable and well-articulated rebuttal here, but I’ve said the same things so many times already and it’s like, all the wind has gone out of my sails. All I can say is that I completely disagree with your premise.

How you make the leap from the actions of a child to make sweeping generalizations about actions of women, blacks and gays is totally beyond me. But then, you do say you are slow on the uptake. Then again, this kind of specious rhetoric is typical of right wing radicals. You trot out the most outrageous rhetoric and sit there innocently with “who me?” look on your face while trying pass this off as some kind of logic.

It doesn’t work. It’s so patently outrageous—and this time, more so than I’ve ever seen you be—that if I believed in trolling, I’d call you a troll. But I think you’re just having us on. You’re such a big kidder, @josie. But I do admire your droll sense of humor.

Under the Orange Tree!

Looking at the long movement from authoritarianism and the age of empires to today, absolutely not. Those that believe in “social Darwinism” are throwbacks to the troglodytes of old. They’ve just adopted some scientific sounding mumbo-jumbo to justify their desire to lord it over someone who is “inferior” by “nature”.

Wow, no. Is this view that social justice is just a way to justify racism, sexism, homophobia, and other forms of bigotry?

There are actually very few parts of social justice asking for special privileges. More often than not, they’re asking for a lack of special treatment. Like, the right to sleep on a bus without getting arrested, like white, cisgendered, middle class people can. Or, the right to walk down a street (even with a condom or two in their pocket!) without getting arrested for streetwalking. Or, the right to not have the color of their skin be a factor in if they get shot. Or, the right to not be sent to jail when a white person committing the exact same crime would get community service. Or, the right to not be abused in their home. Or, the right to not be raped. Or, the right to get justice when they are raped, when they are shot, when they are abused.

Among these special considerations is the assumption that a woman’s accusation of rape is prima facie evidence of the fact. No. No, no, no, no, no. Seriously, I hang out in social justice circles, especially of the rape variety, all the time, and I know extremely few people who think this. There’s a difference between, my accusation should be enough for the police to investigate, and they should do it without blaming me, and my word about being raped should count just as much as a mugging victim’s word about being mugged, and, my accusation should be the only thing needed in a court of law for a jury to be beyond a reasonable doubt. Yes, occasionally, false accusations happen – at the same rate as all other crimes. Of those false accusations, a few will invariably end in convictions. But when rapes are more likely to not be reported than reported, when 97% of those rapes reported fail to result in the rapist being locked up for even a single day, let’s be real: to think that false accusations of rape are a bigger problem than actually being raped is just straight up misogynistic.

I organize the copwatch program in my city. We patrol the streets to document and prevent police oppression and brutality. Because police are largely racist, sexist, homophobic steroid cases and meatheads, we recommend that people who want to do copwatch be white, male, middle class, and able to pass for straight. We won’t turn anyone away, but the fact is that white, straight, middle-class males have far more privilege with the police than anyone else. Some men are ashamed of that privilege – rightly so – and we give them an opportunity to use that privilege as a shield to protect others who lack it.

Does it mean that people who are not white, male, middle-class, and straight are “inept” or “incompetent”? No. It means that they are far, far more statistically likely to be the victims of police oppression. Social justice is an attempt to use the very tools of oppression to break themselves, by using privilege as a lever to destroy itself.

Ugh. Ok, the line should read, “Is this view that social justice is actually an excuse for ineptitude, incompetence, and vice just a way to justify racism, sexism, homophobia, and other forms of bigotry?” I hate when I change sentence structure halfway through writing.