Social Question

Jenniehowell's avatar

Would you marry this guy?

Asked by Jenniehowell (2203points) July 22nd, 2012

I came across this story and wondered to myself why any woman in her right mind would marry this guy. While the theater they are in is being shot up by a nut he abandons his children & baby momma by leaving them on the floor and running out of the place.

By the time the mother gets out with her kids and calls him he is half way down the road on the way home in their car. The man abandoned his entire family and the woman he allegedly loves and leaves a teen aged stranger to be the one to rescue them. What woman in this situation accepts a proposal, says yes or for that matter does anything accept for dump his coward ass?

Hope their house doesn’t catch on fire after the marriage – he’s gonna leave the house to get marshmallows while the family burns to a crisp. sheesh!!

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39 Answers

Judi's avatar

No one ever knows how they are going to react in a situation like this. It was pretty crappy of him, but unless I experience something like this I can’t know for sure what I would do. I would like to think I would be brave and selfless. That’s the person I would want to be. I do t think I can pass judgment on anyone who experienced such a traumatic horror. When adrenalin and base instinct take over its hard to know what any of us would do.

Jenniehowell's avatar

After serving 8 years in the military I can say how I would react in this & similar situations. @Judi you are right that one never knows what their fight or flight reaction will be until a situation occurs & it is easy to speak of what one would do if they were in the situation etc.

My question tho – isn’t about what one would do in this situation. It is about what a woman would do afterward when proposed to. If a woman were to have the realization & revelation that her potential husband has a stronger flight response than fight response than she does when it comes to protecting her/their family does she still choose to marry him?

This insight into his character is really when broken down no different than if she had insight into whether he was capable of supporting them financially due to his ability or lack of ability to gat a job or manage whatever money he earns etc. Or whether he is or isn’t a cheater etc. These are all character traits & I’m asking what woman in her right mind would marry a man whom she knows to have not only a lack of instinct necessary in protecting her or at the least her children but in whom she knows has a more significant flight response in dangerous situations than she does. I would ask the same question about a woman who accepted a proposal from a man who beats her or who spent all the family savings on gambling or strip clubs or who spent His free time screwing other women without consent from his allegedly monogomous (sp) partner.

So again not do you agree with my judgement of this guy being a coward even though I do know from experience what my own personal flight or fight response is due to multiple violent experiences but what woman in her right mind would accept a proposal from a guy who lacks the instinct to protect his family. I would consider it a benefit to have insight into such a part of my potential partner’s character because when making/building/creating a family (which for the most part is what marriage is about) how one would act with regard to protecting & stabilizing said family whether financially, physically, psychologically, spiritually etc. Is a major factor.

What woman is accepting of such weaknesses in her partner? We all have skills & weaknesses – in the best of situations each partner would balance the other out in some way. How many amazing traits must a man with a 100% active flight & abandonment response have in order to balance the scales his way in regard to being seen as a viable partner in a family, marriage or co-parent situation?

FutureMemory's avatar

I hope he doesn’t have any kids. I don’t want him being responsible for other human beings, and I don’t want him contributing to our gene pool.

Jenniehowell's avatar

@FutureMemory I believe he does have kids. Based on the article it seems the two kids he abandoned as he jumped a balcony, ran from the theater & drove away in his car were kids he produced with the woman he also abandoned.

I agree with you tho – whether these kids are his biologically or not – I wouldn’t want this guy to be left as a primary care giver to mine or any other children whether it be as a Sunday school teacher, camp leader or just leaving him in the car in a store parking lot while I ran in to grab a snicker bar. If I was his partner i’d never leave him alone with my kids. If anything happened while he was in charge I’d never forgive myself because after thus point it’s not like she can’t say with certainty that he wouldn’t run from the situation & leave his/her kids in harms way. Carjacker – he’s out the car & running down the street. Fire – he’s running. Kid choking – who knows but he’s likely running away rather than doing any life saving techniques on the kid. Child molester – who knows?... But perhaps his fear of violence & confrontation may prevent him from doing much.

He better be makin ass loads of money, be an amazing cook, landscaper, massage therapist, sexual partner & a whole lot more to compensate for this clear, obvious & known character flaw if he is balancing the scales to the positive to make it worth marrying him. I myself can’t imagine what may balance the scales his way but I’m an ex military lesbian so I had to put the question out there in the hopes that there may be heterosexual mothers out there with an answer to what in the world may make him worth marrying. Cause love surely isn’t enuf. Love doesn’t pay the bills or feed a family or protect it from harm so however full of sugar plums & rainbows a girls head may be – I know if she’s a mother she’s got to be at least slightly more practical than to think that love is enuf. I know a lot of single mothers & none of them put up with too much BS from anyone friend or potential partner/co-parent cause they simply don’t have time for the drama between working full time & raising their kids.

athenasgriffin's avatar

I don’t think I could marry him anymore. Even if I logically still wanted to, knowing that a situation like that is unlikely to ever occur to us again, it seems as though I wouldn’t be able to trust him in the future. Even if it was the only deal-breaker about him.

Especially since in this situation children are involved. Abandoning your own children out of fear, is understandable, I suppose, but not acceptable.

Bellatrix's avatar

No, I wouldn’t marry him. While I can empathise with the idea that nobody knows how they will react in a such a situation, his reaction was to abandon his family. I would hope my husband (and he has never been tested) would not leave me and definitely would not leave our children (if we had any) in such a situation. I don’t know that I could respect a person who did that and I definitely wouldn’t feel I could trust him if things went pear shaped again.

Shippy's avatar

No I wouldn’t marry him, as they say stress is a good indicator of our true human nature and core reactions.

Buttonstc's avatar

No. I would not consider marrying a guy like that.

What @Judi pointed out is valid up to a point. HOWEVER, the phrase “in the heat of the moment” is pretty much that, THE MOMENT.

But once he was out of immediate danger and still driving his car down the road, some amount of rational thought comes back. How on earth did he expect his kids and GF to get back home if they survived? WALK ? ? With an infant and a toddler? Good grief ! !

I’m sorry for being so blunt, but he’s not just cowardly or likely to flee when danger strikes, HE IS ALSO STUPID beyond measure. Really now, it didn’t occur to him that they had no way back since he had the car ? That takes selfish and stupid to a whole new magnitude. I could not spend another mo Ute around this dimwit, much less consider him marriage material. He doesn’t deserve any more chances to reproduce. If someone else thinks he’s such a prize, they would be more than welcome to him.

I mean really, SHE had to call him?

I saw several interviews with him and both of them. Firstly, why would he keep volunteering for interviews so the whole entire world now knows?
BUT, to attempt to answer your Q as to why she would still consider marrying him, I’ll just offer this one guesstimate. I get the impression that both of them must have been high on something prior to going to the movie to begin with (and I don’t just mean adrenaline from the incident) since both had impaired judgement to begin with. Who in their right mind takes an infant and child that young to a movie at midnight.

Part of parenthood whether married or not, is being grown up enough to put your kids needs above your own. You don’t get to have everything you want when you want it and right now. So if you cant or don’t want yo hire a sitter so that your kids can sleep in their own beds at a reasonable hour, then you go to that movie at another time or wait for the DVD. Thats part of the deal called responsible sensible parenting. The kids needs come first especially when that young.

Even if nothing untoward had happened that night, I would still regard both of them lacking as parents. And the one thing that short-circuits parental instincts most effectively is drugs. Practically an iron clad guarantee.

For her to still consider marrying him, I think theres a good case to be made for ongoing. drug use/abuse with both of them. Obviously I cant prove that but all thongs considered, that would be my educated guess.

LuckyGuy's avatar

She was dumb enough to date and mate with him – and have 2 of his kids. She knows exactly what she’s getting and considers it better than the alternative. She’s getting what she expects. Clearly, her standards are not the highest I’ve ever seen.
I just hope they don’t have any more kids.

Jenniehowell's avatar

@Bellatrix I hope your husband & you never do have to be tested & if it happens I hope you both pass the test. I suppose it’s a whole different question in cases where a person is already married – perhaps sone would divorce after that – I’m not sure how I’d react if already married but I expect that even if I chose not to get divorced I’d end up divorced anyway purely because I may become such an ass teasing my husband each time a loud noise happened asking him if he was ok or scared etc etc.

@Buttonstc I agree – one never knows in any situation how they may react as @Judi pointed out but the fact he is on the road in his car without having waited to see the fate of his family is over the line even if his flight response had him leaving his family inside. If I had escaped the theater even without a wife & kids involved I’d have stayed to give police statements as a witness so I KNOW I’d never have left the place in my car with my family inside. If I was this guy I’d have at least been still standing next to my car contemplating what I’d done & what I should do next. You’re likely right in thinking drugs may be a factor as it relates to either of their decision making skills.

@LuckyGuy I agree to some extent tho sometimes a situation like this could be a wake up call fir the mother who mated with the cowardly lion/scarecrow without the brain. I can’t imagine being motivated to marry someone who’s motivation to marry me was based on fear let alone knowing their flight response would have them abandoning their children. I would prefer someone who would fo his best to save my kids even if it meant leaving me behind or if it meant he may die in the process. I’d much rather be interviewed on the news holding my kids & crying about how their dad sacrificed his life to save them while I had shrapnel in my ass than next to him with my children gone from this earth. I pray my partner would save the kids above all else & I believe she would. I agree with you that these two will best serve the global community by ceasing their breeding & multiplying & focusing on their skills with the ones they did bring into the world. Unfortunately, the physical ability to reproduce is all that’s needed these days & the human race has a trait or two that created an extra advantage for those who aren’t actually “the fittest” to be able to survive cause I’m betting without assistance from other humans someone out of that family of 4 may have already had a mishap & if not they sure are/were more likely. It’s unfortunate that IQ & aptitude aren’t factors in human society when it comes to certain things whether it be breeding or driving or voting or whatever. That view prolly makes me a judgmental ass but it sure would be nice if we could count on IQ & skills testing before having to deal with situations where the whole of society suffers due to the lack of those who aren’t up to par when they complete every day functions.

poisonedantidote's avatar

I’d marry him just so I could become an alcoholic that beats him every day.

CWOTUS's avatar

No, I wouldn’t marry any guy, even if it is legal here in Connecticut. Besides, I would need to get a divorce first, anyway.

wundayatta's avatar

There are different roles for different people in a relationship. He may be the runner and she may be the fighter. I find this question to be very sexist. If he had been a woman, would you still ask the same question? I doubt it.

I do not think his running disqualifies him as marriage material. There are surely many other things that do. But what the hell was a family with kids doing at a midnight show, anyway? Even if it is summer, that is too late to keep kids up. That shows selfishness on the part of both parents.

And why do they already have two kids and are just starting to think about marriage? To me that shows a certain lack of ability to plan, and may even indicate less education.

I wouldn’t expect them to have really great communication or relationship skills, nor would I think they would be great judges of character. So I’d expect them to be appropriate for each other, and given the fact they have children together, I’d think she would want to marry him, if he’s finally ready to act like he wants to be together with her.

I wouldn’t expect the marriage to last long, though.

WillWorkForChocolate's avatar

No, I wouldn’t. What an asshole. Whether I was married to them or not, I would never abandon anyone to save my own skin.

Sort of related- did you hear Obama relating the story of the girl who stayed and saved her friend’s life, even though her friend told her to run? I got goosebumps and a little misty-eyed while hearing it.

Jenniehowell's avatar

@wundayatta Yes I would ask the same question of a woman. But of course perhaps I’m different considering my personal history – (I’m assuming you read my previous statements regarding me being an ex military lesbian. I myself don’t subscribe to the standard expectations of patriarchal gender roles. Also in my previous statements (I’m assuming you must have read them) I do make comments regarding the different roles of different people in different relationships and further pose my question to ask what traits of his must be the ones which serve to balance out this character flaw he has. What is it that makes him a viable candidate for marriage despite the fact he is all flight and no fight?

Personally, I believe that everyone with children should be tasked with the job of protecting them in every situation that protection is needed & I really don’t care what gender a person is. The gender of a parent shouldn’t matter in regard to their instinct and desire and duty to protect the children within whatever their abilities may be physically. Even a person who is paraplegic could have laid on the ground with these two little ones and dragged them slowly away from the scene as opposed to rolling away and abandoning them. To me the circumstance is kids in danger – weak parent abandons them. Who cares what gender the parent is? Do your job as a parent & if you can’t then I’m wondering what it is that a woman considers to be the thing that compensates for and balances out this significant character flaw in order to justify him as a viable candidate for marriage.

I am a lesbian & I fully expect that my female partner sacrifice herself for our children and for myself to do the same if said sacrifice is required. At the very least even if it is not a sacrifice or even an injury befalling me or her I would expect that each of us would stay and protect our children/get the children out of there at all cost. My partner and I discussed it last night and she and I both agreed that we would never marry someone who abandoned their children in that manner. I’m also ex military and I fully expect that I myself would stay to help children escape a situation like that even if I had no children or partner of my own there. I am not judging any man or woman based on something I myself wouldn’t do regardless of gender stereotypes.

Like I said – I’m sure based on previous discussions in other groups with you that you have some level of understanding of my history and if not this thread makes certain things clear with regard to who I am. My statements are regarding parents not genders & I expect the same of all genders of parents be they male, female or trans. The fact that this guy in this case is male and the woman is female in this particular case is indication of my reading of the details of the situation not my bias. To be honest my bias actually goes the other way in that I would expect a mother to stay for sure & would be even more critical of a mother leaving her children than I would a father though I would consider both of them a coward who may need to have supervised visits with their children rather than be tasked with primary care after that point. If you are human and you are a parent there is no excuse for not doing everything possible to protect your children & if you are not able to do so then I don’t think it makes you a viable candidate for marriage & if someone is still willing to marry you I would question them in the same way no matter their gender by asking what in the hell is it that this person has in their list of positive traits that could possibly compensate for this significant character flaw considering that marriage for the most part is about family and not about abandoning that concept all together.

wundayatta's avatar

Coward is a pejorative term for a survival strategy that can be effective. But you have a certain history, and I see where you’re coming from.

Some guys are all about fathering children, but then leaving it up to them to survive or not. Trying to father lots of children, although not spending any effort caring for them, is one strategy for passing on your genes. Another way is to have few children, but to spend a lot of time trying to protect those kids and raise them to be successful. That’s the strategy I’ve chosen. I’m a protector. My kids never would be in that situation in the first place, although if the attack happened in the early evening, then we might be in that situation.

Fyrius's avatar

I’m just wondering why the heck this is in the news. It seems a very personal story that’s none of our stinkin’ business. Definitely in my personal category of things I feel one should not want to read about.
Terms like “decadent” and “voyeurism” come to mind.

SpatzieLover's avatar

His brain went into flight mode.

He wasn’t trained to over-ride this response. It’s a normal brain survival mode response.

I wasn’t in that movie theater. I know my own husband would not have handled it well. He tends to go into freeze mode, which in this case probably would have gotten him shot.

I’ll refrain from judging this fella’s survival response.

Buttonstc's avatar


He was the one to give MULTIPLE interviews with news media. There were certainly plenty of other folks for them to talk to if he declined. But he eagerly volunteered for the spotlight.

Both of them were the dimwits volunteering all the personal details. How would anyone in media have known he left in his car, she called him, etc etc.

Which led to my immediate gut level response when I first heard him: “Is he high or something?”

It certainly wasn’t his finest hour and he’s practically bragging about it?

If you don’t want people talking about your private business, then don’t put it out into the middle of the street (or into the worldwide media in this case.) and don’t get all indignant when people talk about you critically. You thought you were going to be famous. Instead you ended up infamous (for being a selfish parent). Well you just found out that fame and infamy are not synonymous. Too bad for you.

I think BOTH of them deserve whatever criticism they get. They’re both crappy parents for dragging they’re young kids to a midnight movie in the first place. Thats why Netflix and rentals exist. Grow up already.

Too bad we can’t do polls on Fluther. I would love to see how many other users of this site with infants and young children would drag them out to midnight movies or defend this as perfectly acceptable parenting.

My guess would be zero (or less than half of one percent)

Just because all these people (not just these two) were involved in a horrendous incident means we aren’t permitted to comment on obviously selfish and crappy parenting when we see it? BS

Pied_Pfeffer's avatar

I feel sorry for the guy. Imagine what his children will think when they are old enough to hear the story and comprehend it.

SpatzieLover's avatar

Some people go to midnight movies to get cool @Buttonstc. I try not to judge why people take their kids out at that time, especially in summer, for that reason alone.

blueiiznh's avatar

Who are we to judge this?

Did people judge others flee or fight instinct during 9/11?

Buttonstc's avatar


And what about if you’re at the movies with dimwit parents who brought an infant who wakes up and decides he’s not happy crying at the top of his lungs? How undestanding are you and every other person in the theater who paid the same ticket price they did?

Come on. Selfish is selfish. Period. Infants and very young children don’t belong at midnight movies any more than they do at expensive white tablecloth restaurants.

Parents make all types of SMALL (and larger) sacrifices to their own wants and needs (particularly in those first few years). It comes with the job description. Not because I said so but because that’s the way it is.

Selfish parents end up raising damaged kids. I’ve seen plenty of it during my teaching years.

If one consistently puts their own whims above the welfare and well being of their kids, they reap what they sow when those kids are older.

Buttonstc's avatar


His kids will think they’re not worth much.

But it won’t be from only this incident alone (see what I wrote above)

Selfish parents produce damaged kids.

Jenniehowell's avatar

@Fyrius who knows why this is in the news – it is a personal story but from what I’ve heard from others these two houligans (sp) have been yapping their story for the world to hear. Regarding the whole voyeur thing I agree – of course I think the majority of our news (or what we call news) these days falls into that category.

Jenniehowell's avatar

@SpatzieLover – there’s a difference between a normal flight response & completely leaving the location in your car with your family still
there. Clearly the guy wasn’t trained – before I was trained my own natural response was somewhere between stupid & frozen – so the flight response could be understandable but not the flee from the whole scene in your car while your family is in danger response.

I’m still sticking with calling this guy a coward & saying unless he’s got some amazing list of other positive skills & traits he’s not a viable candidate for marriage.

Jenniehowell's avatar

@Blueiiznh these folks volunteered their info for the scrutiny of the public. Regarding 9–11 I don’t recall hearing of or reading any stories of people’s flight responses having them abandoning their kids & family as they drove away in a fear filled trance. Perhaps there were coward parents during 9–11 as well but if so it seems they had an IQ that allowed them to see the logic in keeping that story a secret.

Tho I’m making judgments about this guy that’s not the intent of my question – I’m
wondering really who thinks it a good decision to marry a fellow like this one & what would he have to have in his list of traits & skills in order to compensate for this character flaw. No one is perfect so in relationships we all make choices that balance things out for ourselves so I’m wondering not only would the average woman marry this man but also what would it take to make it justifiable. Is the sex amazing? Does he mow the lawn just right? Does he make millions? Get along with the mother in law like no one else could? Cook like a master chef? What would it take for the average woman to marry a man whom she knew for a fact would abandon her & the children in a pinch?

Buttonstc's avatar

Someone asked, “Who are we to judge this?”

Well, I can only speak for myself and I will clarify precisely what it is that I’m judging. I’m not judging him for his split second decision to flee, for in moments like that there is literally no time to think rationally. Any of us might have done the same and wouldn’t know for certain till in the circumstance.

But once he was in the safety of his car driving away, the danger has gone and the adrenaline rush subsides and there IS time to think. And he made a decision to keep going and leave his kids to their fate.

Suppose their mother died. Are they just supposed to find there own way home? Was he hoping they’d all perish and make everything simpler ? Did he need to fortify himself with his substance of choice ? Who knows?

What we do know is that at a later point in time SHE had to call him.

How supremely selfish can one person be ? THAT’S WHAT I’M JUDGING HIM FOR. and the fact that when he returned he sought out the spotlight. Did he think the mere fact that he returned was worthy of fame or praise? Who knows what he was thinking. Whatever it was, it was sadly out of touch with reality. But he got his five minutes of fame (or rather infamy). And he deserves it.

So he’s both supremely selfish and stupid as well. And she’s only half a step behind for agreeing to drag their kids out to a movie at midnight in the first place and then standing next to him in the spotlight, apparently OK with having herself and the kids abandoned by him. WTF ?

So I judge both of them for being selfish (and totally inconsiderate of anyone else in the theater) by bringing an infant and young child to the movies at midnight, summer or not. And I judge him for being totally selfish.

So, who am I to judge? Well, I’m someone who has spent my professional life dealing with hundreds and hundreds of children and families. I’ve seen all types of parents. Some are excellent, some are crappy, some are clueless, some are a little stupid (but even the latter two are willing to learn if provided a few helpful hints.)

But the one thing that will follow as surely as the night follows the day. Parents who consistently have their children as a lower priority to their own selfish wants, for whatever reason, will end up with severely damaged children. (Addicts are the worst examples, but there are others. Just ask any recovering person. They will tell you straight up)

Many of these damaged kids will end up trying to salve their low self esteem by escaping into drugs, promiscuity, or self-sabotaging relationships.

Selfish parents cannot do an effective job of raising healthy kids. That is a timeless truth. I didn’t create it. I just observe it. Even stupid parents can be taught and guided and will usually respond if shown a better way.

But selfish parents need a wake up call or they won’t even see a need for change.

So, if society judges parents for their selfishness, I don’t see that as necessarily a bad thing. It might wake them up to the fact that they are way out of line.

Years of experience have taught me to recognize many of the hallmarks of bad parenting, both minor and major. And if that makes me judgemental, then so be it.

To quote Forrest Gump’s Mama: “stupid is as stupid does” and I’ll paraphrase a corollary: “selfish is as selfish does”.

And what he did after the adrenaline wore off was selfish by anybody’s definition. Blabbing about it afterwards was stupid. And I don’t have a problem with stating the obvious.

If you feel the necessity to defend this guy’s actions, well that’s your right. If you would do likewise and not see a problem with it, I feel sorry for your children.

And just to be perfectly clear, I refer to his decisions made once he was clearly out of danger. What happened in the immediate moment of terror is a separate issue altogether. Let’s not conflate the two.

And this has absolutely nothing to do with 9/11.

CWOTUS's avatar

There’s another angle to this that hasn’t really been considered, I think.

We don’t know anything about his history. He may have felt (and who knows how rightly), that he was under personal attack for some real or imagined misdeeds (maybe he’s got some issues with some local thugs, for example). In that case, putting distance between himself and his family might have been the most pro-survival thing that he could think of for them. And maybe he really did think about that.

I’m not judging him.

Jenniehowell's avatar

@CWOTUS if your hypothetical were true that would still apply to my question. Would you marry this guy? A guy who has a flight response that removes consideration for others & family, a guy who runs from the scene well after being out of harms way abandoning his family & who (according to your new story that has no evidence or support despite these people being all over the news telling their story) may have thought himself at fault for the entire massacre due to some dastardly deed previously committed by him & deserving of retaliation. Well…. What a hero – that changes everything (sarcasm for those who don’t recognize it).

I find it interesting that when asked over & again what would compensate for this character flaw there is no answer from those defending this guy & even in some cases going so far as to make (or in this case make up) excuses for the guy.

There really is no excuse for the guy fleeing the scene after being out of danger if his family was still there. That’s like fleeing an accident because you don’t have insurance – a selfish self preserving fear response while people lay dying – even worse if those people who lay dying are potentially your own family. @Buttonstc is right about selfish parenting & this guy displayed it for sure even more so if your made up excuse scenario were true @CWOTUS there’s no excuse for that behavior & most of the excuses anyone could come up with don’t justify the situation of him leaving in his car but rather those excuses people make for him serve to make his flaw an even bigger one & highlight how many out there are more willing to make excuses than to stand up for what is right when it comes to children.

There’s a big difference between judgment just to be an ass & judgement for the sake of making things better &/or making people think & consider what traits the two heads of a family should have

Pied_Pfeffer's avatar

The bottom line is that he didn’t ask any of us to marry him. He asked his girlfriend and the mother of their two children. She said, “yes”. The proposal was made at a time of extreme stress. Maybe she will change her mind down the road. Maybe not. It’s their choice whether to marry or not. That’s all that matters.

Paradox25's avatar

It is not fair to be too judgemental here. I try to look at things like this, not everyone goes through the same hardships that others do, and many times a person’s true character will come out not when things are going well, but when things are very stressful. Most people will not have to go through something that they judge others on. I’m going to leave my personal opinions aside here for that article, and agree with the post which said that this shouldn’t even be big news, considering other things. I thought that we outgrew witchhunts.

Buttonstc's avatar

What witchhunt ? They were eager to volunteer to put their business out for the world to see as if its something to be proud of.

We are ALL accountable for our and decisions in whatever circumstance we find ourselves in. Was there any time to really make a decision while being shot at ? Of course not.

But AFTERWARDS when out of danger, most certainly. He decided to keep driving and leave his family to their fate. That is a decision that deserves no applause or praise and I’m glad the news media dropped this guy like a hot potato. He doesn’t deserve the spotlight.

Nowadays its all the fashion for society to not take a firm stand on anything of import. because everybody’s all afraid of judging anybody for anything. Thats why schools have such a problem dealing with bullies. Nobody wants to stand up to them and draw a line in the sand. Its the victim who has to switch schools. Something is bass ackwards here. Time and again the victims parents recount of schools refusing to take action when their child is bullied repeatedly and everyone is aware of it. Whatever happened to suspensions for unacceptable behavior.? Oh we don’t want to judge them as being bullies. Ridiculous.

Well sometimes thats just too ridiculous for words. There are certain things that society should have something to say about. Making a decision to abandon ones family deserves some judgement. Hopefully this guy learns from it and vows to be a better patent in the future.

Not all judgement is so horrible. Sometimes standards should be upheld.

And its one thing to abstain from judgement but it boggles the mind that. some people are actually defending this guys decision with the wildest leaps of logic. It boggles the mind.

I don’t see why just asking this original Q is being seen as a witchhunt. It was an attempt to understand the incomprehensible. And fortunately there is not a huge lineup who would eagerly get hitched to someone like this.

Its really been interesting.

Paradox25's avatar

@Buttonstc There is a difference between calling out deliberate behaviors which directly hurt others vs how someone reacts in a traumatic situation, regardless of the circumstances. I’m not going to say that I agree with what this guy allegedly did, or didn’t do here, but there are bigger fish to fry.

Buttonstc's avatar

I’m sure his kids would vehemently disagree with you since it’s HUGE fish to tjem when they’re old enough to get on the net and find out about exactly what their Father did and didn’t do. He has an awful lot to make up to them so he’d better get a clue now when they’re young so that hopefully he will make an inner vow to become a better, more attentive and nurturing father to them from now on. Sometimes shame can be a powerful motivator and the negative feedback he’s getting from all kinds of people will hopefully open his eyes and make him a better parent.

And his decision had the possibility of ending their young lives as well as their Mother. So saying that nobody was harmed is totally illogical It’s only luck or fate or whatever term you prefer which spared them; certainly not anything he did.

There’s a huge difference between the heat of the moment and the decisions made following that (unless you are unfamiliar with how adreneline works in the human body; it can’t last that long or else the strain on your heart could kill you) so it’s his decisions following that moment of which I speak.

I thought I had made that crystal clear earlier, but maybe you didn’t bother reading that part.

And there is absolutely no “allegedly” about it in the least. Both of them described the details willingly during their little five mins. of fame.

I don’t base my opinions upon “allegedly”. But the details came from THEIR OWN mouths. No question about it.

But you don’t have to take my word for it. Check out their videos for yourself. They gave interviews to MORE THAN one news source, so eager were they for the spotlight.

No one in the media or anybody else is alleging anything at all and neither am I. He didn’t return until SHE called him and he knew the coast was clear. The FACTS speak for themselves.

Jenniehowell's avatar

@Pied_Pfeffer I’ll Differ with you on your statement of what the bottom line is. In this case (due to my question) the bottom line is “would you marry this guy” not “would you judge him – do you think judgment of him is justified – do you want to pose an excuse or two for him or did he ask any of us to marry him”. That said the bottom line (according to the question posed here on fluther) is would you marry this guy knowing full well that in a pinch not only is his instict/flight response weaker than yours but in addition to that his logic & fear have him literally fleeing the scene as if he were the shooter abandoning his family well after he is completely out of danger?

I find it interesting how rather than simply saying no I wouldn’t marry the dude or yes he’d be the guy for me people are making excuses for him & feeling sorry for him being judged. That’s all good & fine but it isn’t relevant to the question. As for the judgment he brought that on himself & my heart doesn’t bleed for him. I’ve found that making excuses for people in the end enables the continuation of their ignorant &/or selfish behavior.

True the harshness of much of the judgment throughout the discussion isn’t necessary but equally true neither is all the enabling & excuse making.

It reminds me if those parents who are clueless to the idea or concept that their little jonny could be the heathen he is when he leaves their side & so they make a plethora of excuses for him & one day we all end up dealing with his privileged behavior as he attempts to manage customer service or to have some semblance of people skills or work ethic in the corporate world. In the end it comes down to the selfish parenting comments made earlier & the answer to the age old question of what’s wrong with kids these days is… Their parents!

My question isn’t what do you think of us all judging this guy or what do you surmise is a justifiable excuse for him to have abandoned his family but rather it was to ask you to judge & discriminate as to whether you would see someone like him as a viable candidate to marry for yourself & why.

Jenniehowell's avatar

Thanks @Buttonstc I think some folks have a comprehension problem or something – seems they didn’t read the question which clearly asks the reader to make a judgment.

As you point out in one of your previous comments judgment isn’t always a bad thing – people have attached negative views on words like judgment & discrimination forgetting that we have to have both in each and every decision we make.

For instance if offered drugs we have to judge & discriminate as to whether the choice is right or wrong for us. Similarly, when offered a job or a marriage proposal etc. Even while doing the simplest of things from switching lanes while driving to deciding the time we should leave home in order to get to an appointment. It’s all about judging, discriminating & discerning what we think is best for us in that moment.

The question “will you marry me?” isn’t something one should reply to based merely upon emotion but rather on logic & thru judging whether or not it is the best decision to increase the quality of your life in regard to all the categories necessary to raise & care for a family unit. A smart woman (or man) would make that decision based bit on one thing (emotion) or even two (emotion & the potential a person has to become something different I.e. Excuses) but rather the whole picture (what kind of man/woman is this person now – financially, sexually, emotionally, psychologically, spiritually, logically, instinctively etc) how does who they are now enhance, improve & balance your life now vs doing the opposite in regard to the bigger picture.

It’s unfortunate that our society is filled with folks who react from their baser instincts, base their decisions on emotion rather than logic at an unbalanced level & who are both entertained by & distracted from reality & the bigger picture by baser urges/instincts/emotions. It is the reason for Shakespeare saying “something for the groundlings”. America in general is all too often for the groundlings & the bigger picture is clear evidence of that from the political to the healthcare to the educational to the fear based reactions to the laziness & excuse making to compensate for the multitude of inadequacies – the list could easily go on but the state of our country/world says it all. Perhaps we should all just give up on judging/discerning what is/isn’t logical or healthy in our decision making process & just hop on the handbasket for our free ride to hell – ha ha (sarcasm for those who don’t recognize it).

FutureMemory's avatar

Wouldn’t it be incredibly interesting if the woman in question found this lengthy thread, and joined Fluther just to write a post to defend herself? Just a random thought :)

Jenniehowell's avatar

@FutureMemory now that one made me smile – I would LOVE…. Or should I say LURVE that. I’d have some info finally that explained the logic in a decision of saying yes &/or staying with this dude.

I’m sure there’s some explanation. In the end any logical person would be making their decision based on how it all balances out. She must have other character flaws that she feels balance out his & he has skills that balance his flaws & vice versa. For instance, I’m figuring her answer is something like “well firstly we love each other & secondly, we’ve known from the start that he’s a runner & I’m bad at finances so it all works out – he makes enuf money to support the kids going to private school & if they are ever in danger there I’ll be the one driving there to pick them up while he stays home & freaks out. Oh.. & the sex isn’t bad either.

But like I mentioned – I’d love fr folks to have actually answered the question & given a why as to their logic.

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