Social Question

jca's avatar

Do you feel that when "regular" people are Republicans, it's because they just don't get it?

Asked by jca (36043points) August 30th, 2012

I am wondering how “regular” people (i.e. the middle class and lower class) are Republicans, it’s because they just don’t get it. The Republicans talk about tax reform, yet they don’t specify how they want to reform the tax code, exactly. They talk about being regular people (Mitt’s wife, Ann Romney, kept referring to Mitt as a regular guy), yet he’s a zillionaire and the Republicans protect themselves with their tax cuts to the rich. At the RNC, many speeches were full of lies and inaccuracies. How could a regular person, i.e. not a rich person, fall for this and think that voting for a Republican president would benefit them?

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73 Answers

KNOWITALL's avatar

I’m not rich and am a liberal Republican. There are many more issues at stake other than the tax code, ie abortion, military funding/ war, oil reserves, job creation (this is a big one for Reps who like Mitt), personal resonsiblity as opposed to govt supported programs, etc…. One thing most Republicans agree on is that poor or rich, you pay your bills, you don’t ask the government to pay them for you or simply ignore them. I earn less than $50k per year and work hard to pay my bills, including massive health care bills for my husbands many illnesses. I’m poor but proud of myself.

And in case you don’t know, Democrats lie quite a bit, too. Remember Bill Clinton and the entire Monica Lewinsky debacle? Talk about worldwide embarassment.

DrBill's avatar

Bigoted question, not worthy of an answer.

anatidaephobiac's avatar

No way i want to get involved in this argument, but @KNOWITALL, leave poor ol’ Bill alone.

It is said that many in Northern Ireland are quick to defend criticism of Clinton, i believe that extends to many in the ROI and UK, there is no doubt to his role in the road to peace being of great significance. So, he lied, but Bill can still tell me he “did not have sexual relations with that woman” and i’ll look the other way.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Ana… Okay, I can do that, besides a few issues he was a pretty good Pres.

I even voted for him back when I still believed in the Democratic party (I was young and naive) and really liked Bill actually. “I did not inhale”, that was so funny, and just imagining the blast he had in the White House behind old Hillary’s back makes me smile.

serenade's avatar

In a way. Generally, we respond to political propositions with our emotions first and our rationality second, so there’s some “not getting it” on both sides.

Kayak8's avatar

I am not a Republican, but I do agree with @KNOWITALL that people may have a single issue that is important to them and go with the team that supports that issue OR that people have several issues that are important and go with the team that supports most of them. I don’t think it is uncommon for the party presidential candidate (whoever it is) to not be representative of the individuals they promise to represent. The reality is that it takes a great deal of money to run for office these days. I would prefer the old-fashioned style of debating the issues (not the crap on TV these days that calls itself debating) so you can better understand what a candidate is promising to do and HOW he/she plans to do it.

All the spin and deliberate attempts to mislead, make it difficult to make an informed decision about any one candidate. As a result, we are left to look at party platforms but may still never understand HOW the candidate will bring the platform to life—this can be done in a thoughtful way or in a manner that has devastating consequences. That’s why it is so important to me to understand how they plan to go about whatever change they are proposing.

There are many ways to get to a certain place, some of them are far more appealing to me than others!

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Kayak8- Well said. The problem is they will say whatever they have to say to get elected. Even BHO said he’d close Guantanimo – still open today, he’d end the Bush tax cuts – he’s voted to keep them twice.

The good old days of proper debate and following up on campaign promises is long gone unfortunately. Once they get elected, they are bombarded with the ‘deals’ in place that they have no real power to change, lobbyists offering them the moon to look the other way.

It’s truly a wonder we haven’t had another revolution yet. I was kind of hoping all the American sheep would give Ron Paul a shot this year tbh, althought my hope was shortlived, he could hardly have done a worse job.

Sunny2's avatar

Not “getting it” is not the issue. People think differently about issues. They have differing points of view on what is important. Republicans think more about being independent and able to stand alone financially. Democrats have a more “we need to help each other and share” attitude. This is a simplistic description of a complicated subject, but there’s no point in thinking that if only the other party understood, we could all be on the same side.

wonderingwhy's avatar

Hmmm. I think a lot of “regular” people, when thinking about political issues, don’t get that they’re not really part of the “winning team” which ever it may be.

tedd's avatar

@KNOWITALL The good old days of proper campaigning and following up on campaign promises was never. Even the founding fathers accused one another’s wives of being whores during early campaigns.

As far as the OP… I do find that some people who aren’t very knowledgeable on politics tend to side with Republicans for no reason, even though their own views run counter to the Republican platform. In fairness though, I see this to some extent going the other way too (people who plausibly should be Republicans voting Democrats simply cuz they have no knowledge of politics).

People unfortunately are buying a lot of the lies Republicans are feeding this year. The entire Romney campaign is based on them. “We Built It!” their new tagline, is based entirely off a sentence where they have to remove the first few words in order for it to work the way they’re intending. “He pulled 700 billion dollars out of medicare to fund Obamacare!!” when the money was actually saved by eliminating wasteful spending and abuses, and medicare recipients actually ended up with more benefits. “We’ll make medicare solvent for future generations!” When their only existing proposal regarding it is to repeal Obamacare, which actually pushes its solvency from sometime in the next few years to 2024 (oh and the whole Ryan privatization plan for it).

My personal favorite new one is that in foreign policy issues he’s made us less safe. He’s been the most successful president in foreign policy, arguably since FDR… just an idiotic statement.

But it’s become the way of politicians lately, and in particular the Republicans this time around. Throw as much sh*t at the wall and see what sticks.

wilma's avatar

Most of the Republicans that I know are hard working low and lower-middle class people. They struggle to pay their bills and educate their children. They believe in personal responsibility and not getting a hand-out.
They see their neighbors on welfare and not working or even trying to work and it’s frustrating for them. They see the abuse of the social programs set up to help the truly needy and want the abuse stopped, and the programs to help those who cannot help themselves.
There are also the issues of gun control, abortion, states rights, unions they consider too powerful, and on and on.
@Sunny2 said it very well. People don’t all have the same opinions on things. It’s not that they don’t understand, it’s that they don’t agree.

Here is an example for you. This really happened.

One of my neighbors was getting a divorce, she was a Republican. She had two young children, and only a part time job and very little child support to live on. She was looking for full time work but in the mean time, she sold some belongings , cut the cable and cell phone, drove a twelve year old car, and had no medical insurance. (although her kids were covered by their father’s insurance.) She and her children wore used clothes given to her by family members. They ate a lot of beans and rice, turned the heat down and on and on you get the picture.

Another neighbor who was a Democrat, had two young children and was pregnant with a third. She had never been married but did get some child support from one of the fathers. She and her children were on Medicaid and had full medical, dental and eye coverage. She got her house payment, property taxes, power and gas bill paid by the state. The state weatherized and improved her home with new windows and doors. She got food stamps, and a monthly check from the state to live on. Part of the money that she received was for entertainment. It stated that in her paperwork. She had cable TV and a cell phone. She never tried to get a job. You get the picture.
Woman number two, told woman number one repeatedly that she should go get the paperwork and fill it out to get welfare. She even offered to help her fill it out since she knew how to do it to get the most assistance. She could not understand why woman number one refused to do this.

“The money is there, all she has to do is fill out some forms and they’ll give it to her. Why won’t she do it?”, she asked me one day.
My reply was “she doesn’t believe it’s the right thing to do”.

These two women had very different views on how they thought was the right way to live.

Of course this is just one example and doesn’t even touch on the different ways people think about war, or space exploration, or abortion, or gun control, etc.

tom_g's avatar

@Sunny2: “This is a simplistic description of a complicated subject, but there’s no point in thinking that if only the other party understood, we could all be on the same side.”

I somewhat agree that there are different values at work here. But there is something to be said for actually being informed. There are many people who feel that they are paying too much in taxes, and are voting Republican because they are ill-informed. They believe that their tax situation would be better with a Republican – despite the fact that chances are, they are not making $275,000 per year.

So values are one thing. Actually knowing what the candidates’ proposals are is another.

tedd's avatar

@wilma I have an incredibly difficult time believing that the state welfare paid for everything you listed for person number two. In particular to weatherize and improve her home.

Either you’re misinformed, lying, or leaving something out.

And moreover, your first friend in that situation is an idiot. The systems are designed to help people exactly like her. People who are hard workers and are just down on their luck at the moment but will surge back. She paid into the system so it could help her now, and she’ll pay into it again when she’s back on her feet… She doesn’t use it cuz she thinks it’s other peoples money or something? She’s just fortunate enough imo that she doesn’t absolutely need to use the system.

I’m all for cutting back on welfare abuse (the welfare queens if you will). But I frankly think the incidents of it are far less common than most people think, and people often spite the system for all the wrong reasons.

I had a thread last week about as similar topic, dealing with people who are just stupid when it comes to politics. My example was a friends mom. She’s a raving and ranting hardcore Republican… but her stances are stupid. For example, she ranted about Obamacare being a bad idea (in much more colorful language) and we shouldn’t socialize our healthcare system… and in the next sentence accused him of trying to shut down medicare and social security programs that people depend on… apparently not realizing medicare and SS are the epitome of socialized healthcare, far more than anything in Obamacare.

Or she went on to rave about how we shouldn’t be spending so much money in overseas wars, and we could use that money here at home to invest in roads, bridges, education, new technology, etc…. and in the same breath ranted about what a complete waste of money the stimulus package was.

You get the idea.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Wilma – I agree and know many people ripping off the govt. I’ve always said that the ‘working poor’ Republicans need help and don’t even ask for it, while many others get all they can because they can. What really irks me and my friends is that they lie, like living together for 20 yrs so they can each draw their food stamps and other benefits.

I will continue to support my ill husband with my one job, driving my old car, using our one community cell phone and eating at my friends house since they get all the food stamps. Literally they have steak and lobster claws while I eat tuna sandwiches and they don’t even try to get jobs…..it’s insanity.

tedd's avatar

@KNOWITALL I seriously dunno where you people must live. In my life I’ve not seen someone abuse the welfare system like that.

I also outright reject this stupid idea of steak and lobster claws from food stamps. I am literally calling you a liar on that one.

And moreover, if it irks you so much why don’t you report them for clear welfare abuse????

That’s what I would change about the system. I would make abusing the system a real crime, and I would start punishing people for it. People have this stigma associated with it and think it’s being abused… when in reality it’s one of the things making our nation great. I have no shame in saying some various forms of welfare have helped put me where I am today.

tedd's avatar

I also would like to point out, that welfare fraud, is definitely not what’s driving our country into bankruptcy. The welfare system as a whole isn’t even ⅓ of what we spend on the military.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@tedd I don’t really care what you believe, I’m not a liar. I live in Missouri and this is not a rare case.

I know another guy who is less than 40 years old, 300 lbs and was eligible for food stamps even though his dad was rich and he could live there but chose not to since he’s young and wild. His sister is my bff below, Amanda.

I actually am talking about my best friend Amanda and her now husband. They had one child at the time, she had MediCaid and food stamps in her name for her and the child. Her then boyfriend/ baby daddy worked his 40–60 hrs but since they weren’t married, she got all the benefits of a single mother.

We quit going over there for a long time after they invited us over for steak and lobster claws one night because my husband and I both work and always paid our bills and never had food like they did.

tedd's avatar

@KNOWITALL I still think you’re lying, or simply just wrong without knowing it.

But lets say for the moment that you are correct, 100% right.

Why is the answer to tear the system out, when there are plenty of real hard working people out there who depend on the system right now?

Would it not make more sense to simply make abusing it more of a crime and punish it? The Republican mantra is that we should just tear welfare out all together.

I’m an Analytical Chemist, part time I work with an autistic boy providing ABA therapy. I work 80ish hours a week. Were it not for welfare that my mother received when I was younger, and welfare-ish programs that helped pay for my college… I would not be where I am today. And I can think of several friends who are in the same boat as myself on that.

KNOWITALL's avatar

Frankly the welfare system is broken, Tedd. Only a complete overhaul will fix it at this point. I’m not saying anyone should go without that really needs it, but in order to set new guidelines to cut out all the fraud, it may take a little sacrifice for everyone currently on the system.

My mother has cancer and is on medicaid and disability, I get it, I promise. The only way she could make it is to move in with me if the aid was cut (which is fine with me). Even with cancer all over and severe arthritis and a mental disorder (bipolar), she works the maximum she can at a non-profit helping others manage their mental disorders.

I’m a member of the media and anytime I’ve asked tough questions I’m told the State doesn’t have enough money to do home checks and investigations of fraud, they are completely overwhelmed just trying to provide what they can to the needy.

One of the food banks locally gives food to their employees before it spoils rather than the needy, too, because of their ‘guidelines’...trust me, fraud is rampant and it sickens me when people who need help are denied help.

tedd's avatar

@KNOWITALL So why not offer incentives for people to turn in fraud. You and countless other conservatives who rail against all these welfare abuses would be more than happy to do so, wouldn’t you?

I outright reject the notion that welfare is broken. And I outright reject that the abuses are as wide spread as you are claiming.

(is the food bank you’re talking about even welfare based? All of the food banks I know are run by churches and private groups)

Response moderated (Flame-Bait)
ninja_man's avatar

As for the OP: Had it occurred to you, @jca, that perhaps there might be more to voting then simply what one can get out of it?

KNOWITALL's avatar

Where do the incentives come from? The State and Govt in general are broke! Do you want me to go hang out at the govt apt complexes, study the individuals coming and going so I can see who’s married and who’s not and go through their groceries and count their children? How much time do you think I have honey? lol

The food bank is a Feeding America food bank, not sure if it’s privately owned or not the website doesn’t specify but they are renowned in our city.

I have no reason to lie about anything in an anonymous forum, and believe I will not message you privately again, I will simply call a personal attack a personal attack and let the moderators handle it from there. Let’s keep it classy please.

wilma's avatar

@tedd I think you are very rude.
I am not a liar.
It doesn’t really matter to me if you think I am. The story that I told was true. All of it. I know these people. Woman number two got everything I told about and more. Of course they wanted to weatherize and improve her home, they were paying her heat bill.
Now when welfare reform came about and her children were in their teens and beyond she did have to go out and find a job. And yes, that was while Clinton was president.
The sad thing is that two of her three children have repeated her lifestyle and are on welfare under similar circumstance. I don’t think that they get as much money as their mother did back then, but they don’t try to work.

My neighbor who refused to accept welfare was not an idiot, she was a very smart woman who had pride and dignity and would only have accepted a handout if her children were truly hungry or sick

By the way, I live in Michigan, in a neighborhood with people who have money and people who don’t, (although you can’t always really tell who has money.)
I believe what @KNOWITALL is telling us. I see it too, the truly needy mixed in with the cheaters. It takes a lot of time and energy to sort them out.
.

I guess you don’t understand that way of thinking and that is what this question is all about. Different ways of thinking about things.

A @ninja_man said “Had it occurred to you, that perhaps there might be more to voting then simply what one can get out of it?”

tedd's avatar

@KNOWITALL I suspect you don’t think you’re lying. But I also suspect that you are leaving out key points, or are embellishing the story to fit your own narrative.

I can example this from my part time boss (the mother of the boy I tutor). She’s a daycare provider out of her home and has 12–15 different clients at any one time. She is certified by the county and so she can receive government paid clients as well (aka welfare) and she often rails about how corrupt some of the mothers/parents are, and how badly they’re abusing welfare.

She told me about this mother of 1–2 of the kids she had. She said she barely worked at all, she sat at home all the time just living off the government and food stamps. She had just used her tax return to buy a new car, despite having barely worked at all! She complained about this lady pretty constantly. Well low and behold I finally meet the lady. Turns out she works 35 hrs/week at Burger King. She never finished HS so she couldn’t get a better job, and BK doesn’t want her full time cuz they’d have to pay benefits then (though she often goes over anyways off the clock). The “new car” she bought was an 8 year old PT cruiser with well over 100k miles (and it’s a crappy car to begin with if you know anything about them). I saw a lady who made bad choices in life and ended up caring for two young children alone, who was working as hard as she could to make ends meet so that her kids could someday have a better life. A woman who wouldn’t be able to survive without welfare.

My boss apparently saw a welfare queen.

Having seen stories like that probably 3–4 times, I immediately question anyone who claims to know all these people abusing welfare… as they tend to leave out the entirety of the story, or simply they don’t know because they’re ignorant.

tedd's avatar

@wilma I am rude, especially when I see people trying to pull a sob story with lines of what I believe to be utter BS, and not backing it up. I am completely unapologetic in my rudeness too.

I still disbelieve your story, and sadly there is really no way for you to prove it over a chat forum. But even taking you at your word, I stand by my earlier question/statement about the sensibility of just tearing the whole welfare system out rather than reforming it to prevent abuse.

And yes your friend is an idiot, because she let pride get in the way of common sense. She may be a proud idiot, but she’s still an idiot.

wilma's avatar

Again @tedd a different way of looking at things. What you see as an idiot, I see as a mother working hard and setting a great example for her children.

By the way, I never said anything about “tearing the whole welfare system out rather than reforming it to prevent abuse.” Go back and look, since you think I am a liar.

I was answering the OP’s question about why people seemingly voted against their best interests.
I think they see it as if everyone takes all they can, then there won’t be enough for those who truly cannot live without it.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Tedd It is being rude and immature when everyone EXCEPT you is a liar.

I’m sorry to tell you that some people commit fraud that are on welfare, I’m pretty sure that is a well-known fact. chuckle

Moving on to a more mature discussion.

tedd's avatar

@wilma My apologies on you not having said that, I assumed you were with @KNOWITALL ‘s logic on the idea of just tearing it out.

I’ve thought of another example. People often say that there’s all these people on food stamps who still find the money to do drugs. I would agree with them, that if true this is outrageous. But it was pushed by Republicans as part of why welfare is so broken. Yet when they implemented the drug testing to receive your welfare program in Florida… they found only 2.6% of welfare recipients failed the tests! Less than the actual rate of people who’ve admitted to regularly using drugs.

@KNOWITALL Yah I would move onto a new conversation too if I was as wrong as you are about this one.

sinscriven's avatar

I think Republican politics are extremely effective at social manipulation, marketing, crafting narratives and such. The same way people have strong affinities to their favorite peanut butter or brand of gasoline, is how they get stuck to that political party. And because since the Republican demographic is much more homogeneous (more white, socially conservative, Christian), it makes pandering to them as easy as shooting fish in a barrel—unlike liberals which is like herding cats. Tell the people things they want to hear and reinforce their pre-existing prejudices and be light on the factual data and sound authoritative enough, and they’ll eat it up no matter who they are.

Like that whole “we built it” bit. Created by a complete willful distortion of what Obama said, which was a less eloquent version of what Elizabeth Warren said about the social contract. The whole point was to reiterate the interconnectivity of society and how we all give and take from it, but that was spun into “OBAMA SAID YOU DIDNT DO SHIT.” And because republican voters have a beef with Obama for one reason or another, they’ll buy it wholesale because it just reinforces their beliefs about Obama.

I don’t think the working class-middle class republicans are idiots for continuing to vote republican, I think that with all the psychological tactics being used by the party that they didn’t really stand a chance to bust through the distortion field to begin with.

Either that, or a lack of a traditional-style republican party to defect to doesn’t exist so they will vote the lesser of the perceived evils, like how liberals may be voting for obama just to make sure Romney doesn’t stand a chance, even though the Green party platform is pretty strongly resonating according to isidewith.com

wilma's avatar

@tedd if you and your family really needed public assistance to live, then I’m happy that it worked out for you and that you are now able to give back.

I may be wrong, and this is only my opinion, but it seems like you are a bit to defensive about all of this. Perhaps you are so adamant that we are the liars and unable to agree with your way of thinking, is because you and your family used “the system”, when others choose not to and do it all on their own.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Wilma – He is defensive but sounds young, bless his heart. It sounds to me like he is defending his mothers use of assistance when he was a child, so you can’t blame a fellow for that. He seems to be using his education to help others and that is commendable even if his communication skills are still somewhat lacking.

When i was growing up my mother had to use assistance at one point for us to eat since my father didn’t offer support. My mother once got weatherization assistance and I grew up in low-income housing for the majority of my life until she bought a house when I was 14 or so.

Now that my mom has cancer she is back in govt housing (won’t intrude on my life yet – her words) and on medicaid and disability.

There is no shame in asking for assistance if you really need it, it’s the rest of the people who get it and are fraudulent that upset me and ruin it for the rest of us.

wilma's avatar

I agree with you about that @KNOWITALL . I have had people in my family who needed to use public assistance as well.
I didn’t attack @tedd , I just was wondering why he was attacking us (calling us liars and so on) and offering an idea of why that might be. As I said, I’m glad that it worked out for him and that he is giving back.
I am supportive of people who are in need of assistance, I am not supportive of welfare fraud. I am inspired by folks who can strive to do it without help, even if in the end, they do need to ask for help.

As an aside, I volunteer at our local food bank. I do see it all. Those who cheat, those who need it and ask for it, and those who should ask for it sooner. Also those who refuse to ask for it, even if they are suffering a great deal.
I am humbled by my experiences.

tedd's avatar

@wilma My adamant approach is owed to the fact that I see people on the other side of the argument cry bloody murder when advocating their own arguments. Quiet frankly I’m sick of seeing people on the right outright lie, distort the facts, or tell me things they believe to be true because they’ve been led astray by their leaders. Rudeness seems to be the only way to get through to people such as that, so my apologies if you don’t so much fall into that crowd and found yourself caught in the response.

My mother used the system for support when she needed too (when my brother and I were young). She was the valedictorian at the University of M*chigan (I’m an Ohio State fan, I don’t say the whole name) in chemistry the year she graduated and went on to be a successful histotechnologist/pathologist. After she and my father divorced though, money was tight as heck, and despite my father still being hard working and paying child support.. he didn’t make squat for money so there wasn’t much coming to her in way of support.

Welfare support carried both my parents through that time in one way or another. Then when college rolled around, were it not for government programs that helped provide me with loans and funds for college… there’s simply no way I could’ve afforded to go. Not to mention the welfare services I took advantage of while in college.

I don’t negate the possibility that my parents could have made it through on their own. Fact is I was an infant or very young so I don’t know how bad the situation was. But I do know it was monumentally easier for them because of welfare, and it being easier very likely had an effect on their ability to raise me as they did. I also know for fact I couldn’t have paid for college without government assistance, and I’d not be where I am today.

@KNOWITALL For the first time this thread I am in complete and utter agreement with you. There’s nothing wrong with accepting welfare when you need it, and there’s no shame in it, and people abusing it makes me very angry. I simply don’t think there’s as big of a problem with abuse as you seem too. I also think there are far simpler solutions to fixing it than “tearing it out” so to say.

Adirondackwannabe's avatar

Don’t ya just love convention season. So much entertainment for free.

wilma's avatar

Oh and just FYI, I am not a Republican.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Tedd – You have to understand I live in the meth capital of the US so I probably see a lot more drugs and fraud than you, plus I lived in the system for years as I mentioned earlier.

My friend used to go pull kids in 5 day old dirty diapers out of homes with mom and grandma were on the roof high as kits on meth and all while on welfare. It’s horrible and most people probably wouldn’t believe some of the horrors perpetrated here on children and the elderly, even animals, that’s why I get very angry, too.

Response moderated (Unhelpful)
CWOTUS's avatar

Personally I think that anyone who believes either “the Democratic Party” or “the Republican Party” has their interests in mind (or the interest of the country in general) is foolish to the point of complete incredulity.

Much of the Republican rhetoric is at least in favor of “individual rights” (yeah, to a certain extent, and not one step further – I get that) and responsibility. The Democratic rhetoric is about “getting someone else to pay” for everything that you want.

I agree that the reality of Republican performance is completely at odds with the rhetoric. So is the Democratic rhetoric / reality broken.

Blackberry's avatar

Not to sound like a douche, but I either think they don’t get it, or they’re just less compassionate.

I guess there’s nothing actually wrong with being that way, but it just seems like a selfish and ignorant way to act.

For example, knowitall says there are other issues, which makes sense of they’re economic or international etc. But then she mentioned abortion…..How can someone not “get” that you shouldn’t be able to control the female body?

A guy actually told me that it wasn’t the governents job to spend money during the great deoression….....I told him people were literally starving to death, but he still thinks the private sector should help people. Things like this boggle my mind.

Some people are against government doing anything it seems.

Paradox25's avatar

Like others have said, it is more than the economy or a single issue with me which determines how I’ll vote. Generally I’m not a single issue type of voter, but a political candidate’s stance on a single issue can be a determining factor to me, if that stance is extreme.

I tend to look at ole Governor Rockerfeller of New York, he was probably looked at favorably by many liberals due to his economic policies, but his anti-drug legislation was one of the most extreme in U.S history. I’m using Rockefeller as an example of how I would not vote for a candidate just because of one issue if their stance is very extreme, despite not generally being a single issue voter.

Many times I’ll vote Republican where I live (on the local levels) because many of them are actually more socially liberal than many of the local Democrats are. I’m not so sure that your premise is entirely true, being a former registered Republican myself. I can understand your frustration with the Republicans in general though.

Cruiser's avatar

I think Susana Martinez who was a life long Democrat summed up what you are asking when she said in her speech last night at the RNC convention…

Before I ran for District Attorney, two Republicans invited my husband and me to lunch. And I knew a party-switch was exactly what they wanted.

So, I told Chuck, we’ll be polite, enjoy a free lunch and then say goodbye.

But we talked about issues-they never used the words Republican, or Democrat, conservative or liberal.

We talked about many issues, like welfare – is it a way of life, or a hand-up?

Talked about the size of government — how much should it tax families and small businesses?

And when we left that lunch, we got in the car and I looked over at Chuck and said, “I’ll be damned, we’re Republicans.”

josie's avatar

I guess they just must be stupid.
Unlike the Democrats from Georgia 4 who obviously get it and thus have elected this guy twice http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7m6aewquco&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Trillian's avatar

HAHAHAHAHAHA! How funny! Tip over. Does he think islands float?
When I lived there, reef walking wasn’t allowed. If you ignored that standing order, the reef could take care of itself. It could literally kill you in a most unpleasant manner.
Thanks @josie. I can giggle myself to sleep now.

woodcutter's avatar

The question then becomes: Why do some democrats behave like vicious cunts when they can’t get others to think the way they do. They carefully study a lot of information from sources (that always lean toward their personal biases) thinking they have everything in the bag and have some advantage because they over simplify things too much in order to make anyone who does not fall into line with them as stupid. They sure do seem to think an awful lot of labeling people based on whats on their voter registration card as if all people of one party are exactly the same in their hearts.
They come off as ultra nasty and turn people further away from the very points they espouse often causing people to think“shit if that is the type of person who is voting for so- and -so than I damn sure don’t want in” Nice job you fucking loudmouth ideologue. Not meant for any one person in particular here:)

Seek's avatar

The major issue is that there are two facets of politics: The social and the fiscal.

I’m a liberal / liberal, so I know where I stand. I tend to vote democrat because the come the closest to how I feel (they’re extraordinarily inadequate, but what can you do?)

A good friend of mine is a Liberal / Conservative. She wants people to be able to do whatever they want, but believes in trickle-down economics. She tends to vote Republican, mostly because she always has. That’s her words, not mine.

My husband is a Conservative / Liberal. He nominally opposes gay marriage and abortion, but believes in unions and aid for struggling families. He tends to vote Democrat because his views on fiscal policy outweigh his vague sense of conservative social values.

I don’t willingly associate with any Conservative / Conservatives.

Adirondackwannabe's avatar

@josie Thanks. We can’t have all of our islands tipping over!

Response moderated (Personal Attack)
jerv's avatar

TL:DR

It depends. Many of the Republicans I know remember the real Republican party; a party that worked for the health of the Republic, who:

— Rewarded all who worked hard instead of just their managers
— Were against all government meddling instead of actively pushing for government interference in the bedroom, doctors office, and wedding altar
— Actually supported protecting the environment (yes, they used to be tree-huggers… until the Democrats started going green)

Basically, they are thinking more Eisenhower and less Palin. Note also that Republicans vary by region; an average Republican from New England is a Communist by the standards of the Midwest (Mitt Romney being a statistical aberration). Compare Olympia Snowe and Scott Brown to Paul Ryan or Rick Santorum.

So tell me, OP, which Republicans are you referring to?

cheebdragon's avatar

So it’s perfectly fine to bash republicans for their opinions, because they are different from your own, and to insinuate that clearly they must be stupid for not sharing your bigoted view of the world. But don’t tell a democrat to get their head out of their ass, or suddenly it’s a personal attack that must be removed immediately! Good job moderators!

P.S.
Fuck you and fuck your double standards! please take that personally, because I mean it from the bottom of my heart.

augustlan's avatar

[mod says] @cheebdragon The difference is that “Republicans” is a group of people, whereas your insult was directed specifically to one member. If you want to call “Democrats” stupid, or tell them, collectively, to get their heads out of their asses, that would be acceptable.

cheebdragon's avatar

If it was directed at one person I would have used @.

Adirondackwannabe's avatar

@cheebdragon Hey, I’m Independent, but I issued a blanket attack on Republicans one time. It hurt one of my friends. She ripped me a new asshole for putting all of a group under one blanket. I deserved it. She was right.

augustlan's avatar

@cheebdragon It seemed pretty apparent who it was aimed at, nevertheless.

cheebdragon's avatar

Just out of curiosity, which one one of the moderators is a republican?.....I’ll wait….
How is it okay to verbally bash a group of people? Would it be okay to talk shit about African americans as long as we don’t direct it at one guy? I highly fucking doubt it. Could we bash women? How about handicapped children? Can we make fun of people with cancer as long as its not just one person with cancer? No, probably not. How many questions have you ever seen people openly bashing democrats? Because republican bashing is a daily event here on fluther. It’s fucking pathetic to see people who claim to have such a superior political party, and people who think that they have a better understanding of politics, but cant even grasp the fact that EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT, everyone has different opinions, we all live in different communities, with different incomes, and have had different experiences in life. There is no wrong way to have an opinion as long as its your own opinion. If you can’t fathom how or why someone has different political views, it’s because YOU don’t get it.

I knew most of fluther leaned to the left, but the double standards here are so fucking disturbing, i wouldn’t even be surprised at this point if fluther started its own political “KKK”, you are already worse than FOX news, why not take it a smidge farther, eh?

jerv's avatar

@cheebdragon Quit raging; you’re only making it worse, not only for yourself, but for everybody else who holds the same opinions you do. In other words, you are making all Conservatives look like short-tempered people who cannot properly parse syntax.

You are correct to bring up some of the questions you raise, and I agree that Fluther may sometimes seem a bit bigoted against Conservatives (in violation of Fluther’s Guidelines) but the truth is that we have quite a few here who, while we disagree with them pretty strongly on certain things, we respect them because they do something you don’t; they act civilized.

So calm down, lay off the Ad Hominem, and stop discrediting Conservatives by representing a bad stereotype.

Cruiser's avatar

@jerv I’m Cruiser and I approve this message! ;)

woodcutter's avatar

Hey guys it was in whisper ^^^It may have been a little terse but…I understand

augustlan's avatar

@cheebdragon and @jerv While it’s an undeniable fact that liberals outweigh conservatives here, the same rules apply to all of us. I got modded just the other day, myself! I have to follow the same guidelines as everyone here, liberal or conservative.

@cheebdragon We don’t pick our mods based on their political persuasion. Several of them don’t even live in the US. I will admit that none of the mods I remember were American Republicans, but we’ve had a libertarian, for sure.

And I don’t think it’s “ok” to bash a group of people, only that it doesn’t qualify as a personal attack per Fluther guidelines.

Response moderated (Personal Attack)
Response moderated
livelaughlove21's avatar

This is probably a very biased statement caused by being a Democrat living in the Southeast (God help me), but I’ll say it anyways.

I can’t stand when people vote for a certain political party regardless of the candidate just because of the label. I can’t stand hearing ignorant people bash Obama and make constant excuses for Romney when it’s obvious they don’t know much about any of it. I find most “normal” people who are Republicans in the South only vote that way because Republicans are pro-life and don’t support gay marriage, which in itself is a stupid reason to vote Republican.

woodcutter's avatar

what is a regular person?

someone who is not irregular?

Aethelwine's avatar

I agree with @Sunny2, but I would like to add to this comment: Republicans think more about being independent and able to stand alone financially. Democrats have a more “we need to help each other and share” attitude. All of the Republicans I know (There are many. I live in a republican county in Illinois and I grew up with a bunch of Mormons in Las Vegas) like to share and help those who need help, but they do it through their church. They are regular people wanting to help, they just have a different approach.

Sunny2's avatar

@jonsblond My experience is that some Republicans are quite generous in helping people become independent, especially if they get something out of the success of the helping in the long run.

woodcutter's avatar

Many of these “regular people” hold social beliefs that trump economic beliefs. Even if they themselves are not financially well off. You can still do that legally in the US.

cheebdragon's avatar

@livelaughlove21 are you saying that people should sacrafice their morals/religious views/personal opinions when they vote?

jerv's avatar

@cheebdragon It’s a balancing act. Personally, I don’t want a church state; I prefer a secular government where you and I are free to have different belief systems. Lately, it seems like Republicans are less interested in their core beliefs (smaller government, fiscal responsibility….) than in establishing a Christian brand of Sharia law and/or a return to Feudalism. You have to balance what you want with what is best for the nation, and sometimes those two are not the same.

livelaughlove21's avatar

@cheebdragon Of course not, but a religious view that relates to abortion or gay marriage should not be the sole reason you vote for someone. And my point was that many people vote for Republican candidates just because they’re Republicans (and vise versa). I think, politically speaking, the economy is a little more important than the argument that God hates gay people and women who’ve gotten an abortion.

cheebdragon's avatar

People like Shirley phelps are a minuscule % of Republican voters. And to be fair, someone who thinks that god hates gay people and women who get abortions, probably isn’t a huge fan of immigration, gun control or having an african american president. How many issues does a person have to support before they should be able to vote?

jerv's avatar

@cheebdragon It’s not the quantity, but the quality that matters. If you one care abut one issue but are capable of using actual facts and non-spurious logic, then I feel you are more qualified to vote than someone who has many strong opinions on many issues based on falsehoods, misinterpretations, and dogma.

Also, I would not say “miniscule”, as I know many people like her, so the only way in which you could consider her a miniscule part of the Republican base is if, for every Republicans that is exposed in the media (and by “media” here, I include posts on Facebook and in forums), there are at least 100 that never post anything anywhere, don’t picket or go to rallies, or anything like that. I would agree that there are many Republican voters that are not that way, but even the 2010 election results show that the Phelpsian types are a rather powerful bloc within the Republican community…. and one that must be dealt with if any sane Conservative ever wants to be taken seriously ever again.

cheebdragon's avatar

Well I guess you are probably right, its kind of like all of the people who voted (or will vote again) for Obama JUST because he’s black.

woodcutter's avatar

People have issues that mean enough to them to vote accordingly. We live in a country that allow the people to use their own logic. That’s the way it has been since the beginning. There’s no need to fault or judge people for their choice. It’s their’s and theirs alone. If you can’t change their minds then you do the only thing you can and that is to hopefully cancel their vote with yours. And then get over it already. What’s the problem?

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