How do you account for these GOP "conversion" experiences?

Empathy comes harder to some. I think it’s admirable when someone has an “ah ha” moment and sees things from another’s point of view.

It isn’t something exclusive to members of the GOP.

From Portman’s own lips, according to your link, OP: “It allowed me to think of this issue from a new perspective, and that’s of a Dad who loves his son a lot and wants him to have the same opportunities that his brother and sister would have—to have a relationship like Jane and I have had for over 26 years,” Portman said.

Portman said that his son, who is now a junior at Yale University, inspired him to reassess his position on same-sex unions. The senator also consulted clergy on the matter, as well as friends such as former Vice President Dick Cheney, whose daughter Mary is openly gay. According to Portman, Cheney told the senator to “follow [his] heart” on the matter.

“The overriding message of love and compassion that I take from the Bible, and certainly the Golden Rule, and the fact that I believe we are all created by our maker, that has all influenced me in terms of my change on this issue,” Portman said.

This most likely has to do with “in group” and “out group” and empathy. Someone with a scientific background will likely have an explanation of empathy that relates to kin theory or something.

But I suspect there might be something else going on as well. Could it be that we have moral, empathetic, and compassionate impulses that can be suppressed by things such as political and/or religious ideology? And that the tipping point to allowing oneself to take a chance on acting on or expressing such empathy requires a life-changing event within the family so that the professional cost of switching positions on gay marriage, for example, is offset by the support of the family at large? I would like to believe that many of the people who profess public policy that is harmful are decent people that, for it not for the corruption of their ideology and/or religion, would hold a different position.

Just some thoughts, anyway.

This demonstrates only what many have suspected of these types of people. They are handicapped in many ways, but the most dangerous handicap is that they have failed to develop a sense of empathy which, as far I’m concerned, should eliminate them as candidates for leadership positions. So, late in life they have a personal experience that causes them to realize their mistakes. Often too late for those whom they govern, however. Even in their revelations, they are selfish and self-centered, because its always a situation concerning them, or a member of their immediate family, or a close friend. They still can’t initiate empathy for people beyond their immediate circle, those whom their professional decisions have the most impact. In normal human development, empathy is usually fully developed by the late teens, often much earlier. The psychological and emotional development is retarded in these people for some reason and they should never to be trusted or rewarded with leadership.

Obama flipped flop on gay marriage.

1) This is the same way most people who were raised in an atmosphere of prejudice find their prejudices lessening. Why should it be surprising that politicians are not any different?

2) It gives them a position from which to justify these beliefs, new or only now allowed expression, to constituents they depend on for re-election. If we revised election laws, campaign financing, and gerrymandering so that congresspeople weren’t beholden to the party line spewed out by Fox News and reinforced by the Tea Partiers, I suspect we’d see many more conservative politicians expressing their real values. As it stands these people have to get re-elected every two years and rely on private donations from their now extremely single-minded base, so they’re basically campaigning 24/7. Most politicians won’t endanger their careers like the two brave souls you mention.

@bkcunningham: Do you view Obama’s move as a “conversion experience” as well? I thought of it more as a calculated political decision. I figure he never would have gotten elected if he had pronounced himself in favor of gay marriage in 2008. And now, he needs to fire up his base, many of whom are very disappointed in him for various reasons.

To respond to the general question, I have never thought of these reversals on social issues as conversion experiences, but I guess it makes sense to describe them that way. If you’ve never had a reason to think about the experiences of people who are very much outside of your “group,” you might feel you have no reason to have empathy for them.

I flipped too and I’m the same age as Obama. For me my religious beliefs at the time trumped my instincts for fairness. It was also a spiritual epiphany that caused me to see God as much bigger and more inclusive than I had previously believed him to be.

@bkcunningham “Obama flipped flop on gay marriage.”

Yes, but it wasn’t that his position moved from “gay marriage is wrong” to “I now support gay marriage because Malia just told me she’s gay”.

Personally, I’m all for “flip-flopping”. I want my political leaders to have the courage to abandon positions that they come to see as misguided. What dismays me is that it takes having the problem under one’s own roof to make one’s position change.

I think the announcement of his “evolution” was purely political, @bookish1.

Since 2—1 the country has slowly shifted support for gay marriage. As of today the polls show about half the country supports while half the country doesn’t. I don’t find anything surprising about politicians following the same slow migration. I do find it surprising that those who say non supporters have no empathy, are saying that half the country has no empathy. Seems like quite a leap.

Having a personal experience as a motivator for change seems logical to me, @thorninmud.

I have to go with the empathy theory here. Those who were either born rich or lucky enough to have their gambles pay off often never lived in poverty long enough to know what it’s like not pulling a six-figure income. The same applies to other issues; they cannot relate to something that was (to them) merely a myth until it bites them in the ass.

@Jaxk I think that “out of touch with average people” would be more accurate. How many blue-collar people do we have in Congress right now? I don’t see it as much of a leap from there to “lacking empathy” since both are not understanding what it’s like for those unlike you.

@Jaxk, just no empathy on this subject. Although most also have a hard time empathizing with the very poor. I don’t think they choose I think it’s just a blind spot. People take for granted the ability to turn the light on when its dark and it never occurs to them that someone else is struggling to pay the power bill.
When my kids were little I babysat for a lady who would say things like, “I just can’t afford the power bill to keep the air conditioning on so I spend all day by the pool.”
She had no idea what it meant to REALLY not afford a power bill or wonder where her kids next meal was coming from. She had a car that was newer and she could afford maintenance. She had a house with a pool and she was talking to ME, who had just begged with the power company to wait one week not to shut us off and had called catholic charities to get some food for my children.
I have lived on both sides of the tracks. I am probably a 1%er now but I will never forget what it was like to struggle.

I can’t help but wonder if, like Obama’s, a lot of these conversions or evolutions are politically motivated although couched in personal revelation terms. I also agree with the innate empathy theory; Romney was clearly lacking in any.

Obama made a political move. I believe he was always pro gay marriage. He had to keep that card to get reelected.

I have to agree with the others who say that these people lack empathy. No one cares until it negatively affects them.

It indicates a disconnect between their views and the real world. Most politicians have never experienced poverty and probably never will and not knowing what it is like they view it in a hard unsympathetic light. But I would agree, politicians should have more imagination and empathy. The conclusions of ethics should be the premises of politics.

Reason for GOP conversions. Hardest thing to tell. Easiest thing to guess. I’ll go the easiest route. They’re lying.

Isn’t there a saying that you shouldn’t judge anyone until you’ve walked a mile in their shoes? It can, indeed change your point of view.

One of the main reasons people who are anti-homosexual are the way they are is because they are unable to empathize with them. To them, homosexuality is this wild alien lifestyle choice where people are awash in AIDS, molest children, are promiscuous, attracted to everything that moves, etc. And I’ve seen so many people change their attitude toward homosexuality when they realize that the only difference between homosexuality and heterosexuality is the gender of the person they are attracted to. Everything else is the same. They realize that because being heterosexual does not entail all those negative things, neither then does being homosexual. I feel as if the same thing happened here with same-sex marriage. These people had misconceptions about it and couldn’t put it into perspective. Having a gay family member helped them to do so. They realized that same-sex marriage and opposite-sex marriage are not so different. And if one is allowed, then why shouldn’t the other?

Of course that is true, @Sunny2. But that reality doesn’t give a certain mindset of people an opportunity to complain; even when someone is agreeing with them.

^^ I’m sorry, but I don’t understand your comment…

It doesn’t seem to be a right-wing vs left-wing thing (although I do think that most left-wingers have more capability for empathy than most right-wingers). I’ve never understood how people lack the ability to think about things as if it would affect their own families, their own lives. But some people (of all stripes) just can’t think this way, until it does. Whatever the reason, I’m glad they have changed their minds.

The examples @thorninmud noted in the OP do tend to reinforce the common perception of GOP politics today, “I’ve got mine, screw you.” They are all instances where someone who had gone through life with that mindset suddenly realized, “Oops, looks like what I thought I had is slipping away. Now I can suddenly feel your pain.”

@Sunny2, I was agreeing with your comment about not judging someone unless you’ve walked a mile in their shoes. You said by doing so it can change someone’s point of view. I agree 100 percent. But some people aren’t satisfied when someone changes their point of view and can see the other side of an issue. They still want to bitch and moan and complain about how that person came about their empathy. If it wasn’t so sad, it might be funny. I guess some people just like to feel superior and sling insults. “I have had my empathy longer than you’ve had yours.” “I was born with this empathy and you weren’t.”

I’ve heard people here say that others have too much money and can’t understand the plight of the poor and other comments along those lines. Go figure. It takes all kinds to make the world go round. Shakes her head.

@bkcunningham Empathy “the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner; also : the capacity for this.”

Empathy is feeling someone else’s pain when it doesn’t directly impact oneself. I understand why you are feeling indignant about others pointing out the empathy deficit in the political party you prefer. I need no empathy to understand that. I’ve been on the receiving end of plenty such criticisms myself. We demonstrate empathy when we project ourselves into the sufferings of others without ever having gone through such suffering ourselves. The critics were right to dismiss conversions that occur only after a situation becomes personal as a poor display of empathy. It isn’t empathy at all. It’s laudable that they come to see the light, but not laudable as a sudden grasp of empathy.

@ETpro The sad part is that, despite being autistic, I have more empathy than many Conservatives seem to. Think about that for a moment; someone with a disorder which has a chief characteristic of being unable to read the social cues that others read intuitively is better at this that allegedly healthy-minded people.
Note that, like me, they can intellectually extrapolate once awareness dawns, so it isn’t like Psychopathy; it’s merely a blind spot. Empathy is both the awareness and understanding of the feelings of others; psychopaths lack the understanding while Conservatives and I lack the awareness.

Somewhat relevant

The long term trend in the world is towards greater liberalism. There are notable setbacks, but that is what is happening in the long term. There is a greater economic safety net than 200 years ago. Slavery is no longer approved of, even if it is still practiced in some places. Women have much greater equality worldwide than they did 200 years ago. There are more laws forbidding cruelty to animals. And on and on.

The views of conservative politicians change because, in one way or another, they become attuned to the prevailing view, which may or may not be aided by a fear if not being re-elected. Pardon my cynicism, but 200 years ago politicians did not suddenly support gay rights upon learning that they had gay children.

@bkcunningham Thanks for the clarification. Haven’t you noticed that some people spend their entire lives complaining about something? I think, too bad, they have to live with themselves, but I can avoid them. And do.

I’ve been thinking more about this, and I’m “evolving” toward a more nuanced view of the matter.

I find that I have a Republican stereotype in my head. This mental model Republican is easy to dislike, because all I can see about him is how he is in ideological opposition to me. But that stereotype breaks down when I consider someone like @bkcunningham. I happen to really like her. I’ve seen enough of her, even in this limited “virtual” way, to admire her grace and character. She makes it a whole lot harder for me to see Republicans as the enemy.

Maybe this “conversion” thing is the same. A politician who has been steeped in stereotypes of gays and “takers”, and whose policy positions have been informed by those stereotypes, is suddenly confronted with a fully dimensioned person, one whom the politician already loves, but who also happens to be gay or in need of assistance. It’s understandable that the stereotypes would crumble in the face of that living reality.

Thank you, @thorninmud. Your words fell upon me with such grace and warmth I was in tears before I finished reading them. They were a much needed salve for me today. I had to attend the funeral of a friend this morning. Your character is admirable. Again, thank you very much.

It’s always different when something is actually affecting you vs just hearing about the ordeals of others. Experience is the greatest teacher, and it shows some fundamental flaws in the authoritarian mindset. Are we willing to treat others in a way that we would never allow our own loved ones to be treated as?

Emphaty in GOP politics is what I call perfect timing. Truth is, their timing sucks. If Sarah Palin and Donald Trump suddenly discover they were both born in Mozambique, they might probably start emphatizing with Barack Obama.

Those GOP politicians that had a change of heart, did any of them explained clearly how they arrived into having a different POV-? Where were they before they got hammered in the last Presidential election-? They’re despicable human beings but smart politicians.

Well, I know I should be glad they are changing their position, and I am, but it just is a reminder to me of how I am often mystified by how some Christians cannot put themselves in another person’s place. It also rings of not giving a shit about people unless they are related to you or close to you or in some way look and believe and act like you.

Not to mention it might be very politically motivated. With Obama I have a really hard time believing he wasn’t for gay marriage all along. I think his big political move was saying he was against during his first run for President. When gay marriage passed in NY I remember a republican politician was quoted as saying he no longer could go against how he really felt on the topic just for the party or even for the people who voted him in. So, are these Republicans who are flipping doing so because they always felt it was wrng to deny gay marriage and gay rights, or do they feel like finally their supporters are coming around also?

This article tells Christians to stop being so offensive and stop being surprised people are combative back. It was written around the time the Supreme Court ruled against DOMA and when Alan Chambers one of the leaders of the biggest pray the gay away churches apologizes for leading that cause. I think a lot of ministers are following this line of thought. I think they see they are likely to be on the losing end long term not only politcially, but also as a religion if they don’t stop being so exclusionary.

So, does that mean the leaders have had an epiphany of Jesus’ love and acceptance? Or, that they are worried about losing church members and people in the party?

@JLeslie ” I think his big political move was saying he was against during his first run for President. ” What better way to get Republicans to support gay rights than that? I mean, when your actual platform is based not on sound policy but rather on doing the exact opposite of what the Democrats do, that makes reverse psychology like that extremely effective. Change the nouns in that sentence and you could apply it to Christians vs non-Christians, Star Trek vs Star Wars….

@jerv I don’t think there was any reverse psychology, I think he was catering to Christians in his party, especially black Christians, even some Hispanic. Black Christians, especially southern black Christians, are overwhelming against gay marriage, were against gays in the military, etc. etc. They are just as Baptists as the white Baptists. On social issues they line up with the Republicans.