It being Good Friday- Believers, why didn't Jesus save himself?

It was a reenactment of the old ritual animal sacrifice, with the purpose of absolving believers of “sin”.
Being the “son of god”, this sacrifice is supposed to be big enough for its effects to last forever, so no further sacrifices, animal, human, or otherwise, will be needed.
His non-natural death was therefore a necessity in that story.

note: I am not a superstitionist.

My favorite Bible verse. 1 Corinthians 1:18, for the message of the cross is foolish to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.”

I might add that I don’t think “perishing” means damned to hell. I think it’s about people who don’t live in joy and fullness of life.
The power comes from his conquering death. Without Good Friday you wouldn’t have Easter.
I am not up to an argument today so if this is going to turn into one of those threads then ignore my answer.

@ragingloli Your answer makes sense to me. I’d never figured out what, “Christ died for your sins,” meant. Thanks.

The crucifixion was required because someone had to DIE (& be ‘raised’ from the dead) in order for this new religion to become established in the minds of the people… and the more gruesome the death was, the better it would cling to their minds. It did not matter that what “God” was doing (basically) was having his Son sacrificed to himself, & no matter who dies, no one’s death can mitigate any other person’s sin(s). The idea that ANY parent would allow their child to be put to death in such a cruel manner is appalling to me. If “God” wanted the humans (that He created) to be forgiven of their sins…. why didn’t he just forgive them of their sins? After all, the Bible states clearly that He (God) had the power to do whatever He wanted!!

I’m not a believer anymore, but I retain some idea that it was about how “God so loved the world…” I thought it was about the incarnation of God undergoing the most painful and demeaning sort of execution known to the Roman Empire… as a sign of what He would do for us in the game, and the ultimate inimitable example of how we can serve other humans…
But even when I was a Christian, I was approaching it as a Hindu…

Here’s an article entitled Why I Need the Resurection
Several thoughtful people have answered your question.

I have a completely different take on it, how I’ve come to interpret things reading numerous bibles, but not attending church, I have no dogma to wrestle with.

You won’t hear this in any church or sermon.

So, Jesus said one thing about who he was.
“I am the way, the truth, and the life”... That’s it… That’s all.

He never said he was the son of God. He called himself The Son of Man countless times. Jesus was called the Son of God by everyone else… But he never claimed to be THE actual Son of God any more than one of us could claim to be the Son of Anarchy, or a Child of Hope, or a Daughter of Virtue.

Whether he was or not is irrelevant. The miracles, the virgin birth, the resurrection, ascension… totally irrelevant. They may or may not have happened. It doesn’t matter. That’s the dogma of it all… and the dogma is the pure evil of religion. It not only misses the point… but it actually seeks to divert the point. Dogma is insidious.

The point, was exactly what Jesus said. “I am the way, the truth, and the life”. All that means is to accept the way of truth and live… spiritually live… as in having a spirit of hope, or a spirit of charity, or to be good spirited. I’m not talking about a “heavenly” spirit considered supernatural. I’m talking about a persons real life spirit of how they live in reality.

What does this have to do with Calvary at the Cross?

From a purely materialistic perspective…
The Way of Truth… is a concept freely given to all who would accept it. It cannot be compromised, but it can be rejected. It is freely given, but it must be earned… just like the knowledge of Calculus is free to all, but one must earn it for themselves, to truly come to grips with Calculus, accept it for what it is, and thereby come into union and know the spirit of Isaac Newton. Get it?

Isaac’s “spirit” IS his thoughts. One of many of his thought/spirits, which contribute to the finality of his mind/soul. Get it?

Coming to know Isaac Newton’s thought/spirit of Calculus, requires following his Way.

Of course we could all reject Isaac Newton’s Way of Calculus. That’s the thing about Truth… it can be rejected. But the funny thing about Truth… rejecting it is the very thing necessary for it to be resurrected. It could not be resurrected unless it had been first tested, sometimes butchered, rejected, scorned… like Darwinian Theory.

Only by suffering the fires of persecution, may the final resurrection be honored with the respect it deserves. For amidst our denial, Truth shall eventually prevail through resurrection.

That’s why the previous similar myths of Christendom don’t bother me so much. It’s just a continual resurrection of previous Truths of a compassionate forgiving lifestyle. It will always come again so to speak.

Had Darwin fallen under persecution, I have no doubt the Truths he represented would have been resurrected by another. Had Newton fallen under persecution, I have no doubt the Truths he represented would have been resurrected by another.

The Way I see it.

Not a believer, but as I understand it, Jesus died for man’s sins. Which frankly, makes no sense to me, because God could have saved people from sin with the click of His fingers, because He’s God, and can do whatever He damn well pleases. But I guess people need symbolism and shit, and that’s where Jesus dying on the cross comes in, I guess. He could have saved Himself though. Could have just walked down from the cross going, you know what, fuck you guys. ’‘points, and all Romans die’’

@josie, to put it very simply, it was done in a manner exactly as it was told in the Old Testament that it would be done. It fulfilled the Messianic prophecy and rent the veil of the temple that we may have communion with God.

When I first saw your question I thought it was going to be the Good Friday, 3 days in the tomb and resurrection Sunday question.

God knows.

I feel the way @josie put it. It was done exactly as it was foretold in the Old Testament. And I think “it matters.” There will always be mystery attached to it.

A friend of mine’s mom just died. He wrote this on his blog.
“Mom lived her life. Mom first introduced me to a non-retributive loving Lord who did not come to “die for us” to “satisfy” an angry God but came as a friend who ended all cycles of retribution and violence.”

God loves all people and desires for them to be with Him in eternity. While He is a loving God, He is equally a holy, just, and trustworthy God.
Since He is holy, in and of His very nature He cannot tolerate sin and most definitely cannot live in harmony with sinners in eternity.
Just judges do not let criminals go free no matter how much they may love them, because that would not be just. Neither can God, since His nature is just.
Therefore He longs to be with you in eternity, but since you are not holy as He is holy He cannot be in fellowship with you.
It is as if there is a great abyss that separates all humans from God.
The consequences of this sin are eternal death.
“the wages of sin is death”
(Romans 6:23 A ESV)
The only possible way that we could ever escape this punishment is if another person who had never sinned were willing to die in our place, so that we could have their reward for being sinless, which is eternal life.
Since all humans have sinned in at least one way, it is virtually impossible that anyone would ever be rescued from death.
“for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
(Romans 3:23 ESV)
God in His love looked upon the plight of His creation, and sent His Son to the earth as the only holy human being.
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son”
(John 3:16 A ESV)
Jesus died in the place of humans, so that we could have His reward, which is eternal life.
”...that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.”
(John 3:16 B ESV)
”... but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
(Romans B 6:23 ESV)
Now, Jesus has bridged the abyss of sin that separated man and God by dying to make us holy. No matter how much you or I have sinned, we need only to trust that our sins were duly punished in Jesus’s death and we will wear His righteousness, so to speak. When you believe, God sees you as holy, therefore you can be in fellowship with Him as He intended initially.
Recap:
Jesus had to die because God loves us and wants us to be with Him in eternity, but He cannot tolerate sin. Jesus had to die because the wages of sin is death, and only by the death of a perfect sacrifice could we be reconciled with God.

The reason crucifixion as the means of death was crucial:
1) Jesus’s death was prophesied-
But He was pierced for our transgressions; He was crushed for our iniquities;
upon Him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with His wounds we are healed.
(Isaiah 53:5 ESV)
“He was pierced for our transgressions”-
This refers to the piercing of Jesus’s hands, feet, and side at the crucifixion.
“He was crushed for our iniquities”-
Refers to weight of the sin of all humanity that was put on Him at the cross, as well as the physical torture, and the seeming defeat of death.
“upon Him was the chastisement that brought us peace”-
He was the perfect sacrifice that brought us reconciliation with God, by making us holy through is punishment.
“and with His wounds we are healed.”
Many other versions of the Bible say “with His stripes we are healed.” It is referring to the stripes that He received when He was scourged prior to His crucifixion.
2) The greatest offense in all of creation (sin against a Holy God) can only deserve the greatest punishment.
-Natural death is not the greatest punishment.
-Crucifixion is the most agonizing and humiliating form of death known to man.
Keep in mind that this was not just one man’s sin, but rather the sin of the entire world.
Imagine for a moment that a thousand murderers were put into one body…
Assuredly, you would not want them to go on with a normal life and die of old age. (Or some other natural death.)
At the cross Jesus was equivalent not to a thousand murderers, but to all the murderers, and rapists, and liars, and thieves, and adulterers that will ever live.
That deserves only the most unthinkable form of punishment – crucifixion.

God is love:
Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.
(1 John 4:8 ESV)

God is holy:
since it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.”
(1 Peter 1:16 ESV)

God is just:
God is a fair judge, a God who is angered by injustice every day.
(Psalm 7:11 GOD’S WORD Translation)

@genjgal: Why did God create beings that are capable of sin if He cannot tolerate it?

@bookish1 Paul actually addresses this or a similar question in Romans.
What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—
(Romans 9:22–23 ESV)

He did not create sinners. Rather, as you said, he created beings that were capable of sin. He gave them free will, and He did it to display His glory.
“If God had created a world in which no one sinned, what aspects of his character could he have shown? His creative power, his loving-kindness, his provision for his people.
But what about his mercy? Or his justice? Or his wrath?” [source- Conversational Theology]

Why do parents have children when they know that those same children will rebel against them and cause them grief? It is an act of love and sacrifice on the behalf of the parent to raise those children. In the end, those same rebellious children can grow up to bring much joy and glory to the parent.
It is quite a similar situation between humans and God.

Thank you for your answer, @genjgal. I’ve often wondered the same thing about parents, haha.

But God did not create us to bring himself “joy and glory,” because He is sufficient unto himself, right?

@bookish1 Very good question! I’ll take my best stab at it.
God does not need us to bring joy and glory to Him. You are correct that He is complete without us. He is in no way dependent on us to give Him joy and glory, but He does deserve it.
When we see His glory and love and beauty displayed in His actions toward us, we will glorify Him.
His relationship with sinful humans displays the glory that He already has.

I’ve just stated them, but there are primarily two reasons that humans need to glorify God-
1) It is only right and good. We praise people whom we admire, because certain things about them are deserving of our praise. How much more is a perfect God deserving of all of our praise?

2) It is our enjoying of God overflowing, and we should enjoy Him.
C.S. Lewis put it this way:
“I had never noticed that all enjoyment spontaneously overflows into praise…. The world rings with praise—lovers praising their mistresses, readers their favourite poet, walkers praising the countryside, players praising their favourite game…. I had not noticed either that just as men spontaneously praise whatever they value, so they spontaneously urge us to join them in praising it: ‘Isn’t she lovely? Wasn’t it glorious? Don’t you think that magnificent?’ The Psalmists in telling everyone to praise God are doing what all men do when they speak of what they care about. My whole, more general, difficulty about the praise of God depended on my absurdly denying to us, as regards the supremely Valuable, what we delight to do, what indeed we can’t help doing, about everything else we value. I think we delight to praise what we enjoy because the praise not merely expresses but completes the enjoyment; it is its appointed consummation. It is not out of compliment that lovers keep on telling one another how beautiful they are; the delight is incomplete till it is expressed.”

I’ll restate it:
God does not need us to glorify Him, but He did create us to glorify Him and to display His glory.

If He had not chosen to create the universe at all He would still be the same God, with all the same attributes.

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
(Hebrews 13:8 ESV)