General Question

eferrara's avatar

Is buying a home near a nuclear plant a bad idea?

Asked by eferrara (145points) August 18th, 2013

I am searching for my first house, and I have fallen in love with a beautiful town house on the lake. The only issue is the close proximity to the nuclear generating station. It is about 6 km away. I am concerned about the cancer risk as I have had cancer previously (Is the risk as bad as I’m thinking?) Also I am concerned about the land value and reselling the house in the future. Dumb idea?

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27 Answers

gailcalled's avatar

What lake? what nuclear generating station? What is the history of house purchases and sales in your neighborhood, starting with the one that interests you? Check out comparable values further away from the power plant.

Confront your realtor. Or is her first obligation to the seller?

Also a cancer survivor, I personally would be very cautious.

Rarebear's avatar

I’d be much more concerned about buying a home next to, say, an oil refinery than a nuclear power plant.

The concern of risk of resale on the house, however, is a good one.

Coloma's avatar

Oh jeez…..no, I wouldn’t.
You’d be better off buying a rural property and commuting extra to live in a healthier environment.
Homes may be investments but they are HOMES first and foremost of all.
Look for a HOME that you will LOVE living in for as long as you live there.

chyna's avatar

I bet you can get it really cheap.
I probably wouldn’t buy it.

eferrara's avatar

This is the Pickering nuclear station that I am talking about, in Ontario, Canada… it is I believe the oldest nuclear station that we have in Canada however they maintain that it has excellent safety performance. There hasn’t been any accidents or issues with the reactors or anything that I know about (or that I could find online). The only health studies I could find on the area have all said that the cancer incidence in surrounding areas is not any more or less than the general public…. but I am still skeptical…

The cost of the house seems to be on par with market value. What is also concerning is that the house has been sitting on the market for close to 6 weeks now.

JLeslie's avatar

I wouldn’t buy it. If you get cancer again you might always wonder if you contributed to it by living there. At least I would. Even if it was completely unrelated. Plus, whe you need to sell it you will have buyers relcutant for the same reasons you are.

Coloma's avatar

Seriously…I don’t know where you live but look into small homes on some property, 1–5 acres within about 30 miles of your area. Rural living is the best if it can be done and you can have healthy surroundings, peace of mind, low/no crime concerns, and you can also enjoy improving your property and knowing it will gain value.

I wouldn’t invest any money in a toxic housing situation…no matter how you pretty things up that shiney red apple conceals poison.

ucme's avatar

Probably, I know I wouldn’t.
Might fallout with the neighbours.

YARNLADY's avatar

No, especially on a par with other properties that are not in the danger area. If it was a bargain, I might give it some thought.

CWOTUS's avatar

I don’t know how Canada taxes their nuke plants, but in the US living in the same town as the nuke plant can be almost like a windfall on your property tax bill. That is, the plant pays such a high property tax bill that town residents get practically a free ride.

In any case, these plants are huge employers, and even if they shut down the plant tomorrow – which I presume is unlikely – there will still be long term employment (although for fewer people) during the shutdown and decommissioning period. And decommissioning is a process that generally takes a few years to complete.

My own experience was to have lived in St. Joseph, Michigan – on Lake Michigan – 10 miles north of the Bridgman plant and about 15 miles or so south of the Palisades plant near South Haven, MI. We lived in the evacuation zones for both plants, that is, and never lost a night’s sleep because of fear or problems.

Cancer from the plants is very, very unlikely, barring a major catastrophe. The radiation emissions at the plant boundaries are very carefully monitored, including ground water wells to check for leaks and seepage underground. You have more exposure to background radiation coming from cement and cinderblock walls in, say, a school building than you will have as a result of living near a nuke plant.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

I live within 50–100 miles of several. I don’t want to be this close, if I had a choice I’d be further away. Google Davis-Besse incident in march of 2002. I’m guessing this did not make the news because of 9/11 dominating the media at the time. This could have been bad and could happen anywhere.

WillWorkForChocolate's avatar

I certainly wouldn’t want to live there.

Linda_Owl's avatar

Considering the disasters that have happened at Chernobyl & Fukushima, I would not purchase a home that was this close to a nuclear facility.

gailcalled's avatar

A large cement processing plant spent six years trying to build near the Hudson River in my ‘hood. Communities within a 50 mile radius fought the plant for those six years and eventually won.

The particulate matter drifted for dozens of miles on the winds and was nasty and eventually lethal to breathe.

St. Lawrence Cement spent $58 million (USD) in what turned out to be a model of grass-roots activism.

http://www.stoptheplant.com

Not quite apropros, I know, but the story speaks to how we view our long-term health.

Don’t buy the house.

2davidc8's avatar

Just 6 km away? You can walk there in under an hour! You want to be that close to the plant?

I don’t believe 100% containment is possible

Yes, it’s a bad idea.

talljasperman's avatar

~It could be worse you could have a house in side a nuclear power plant.

But yes I think It is bad, unless you have good safety measures like French power plants.

jerv's avatar

First off, I have to ask how many here have actually studied nuclear reactors. How many classes have y’all had on Radiation Fundamentals, Reactor Theory, Nuclear Chemistry, and the like? People fear the unknown and will believe anything if they don’t know the science. The fact that I know the science will put me in the minority, as will my conclusion that you don’t have to go into utter panic mode.

Unless we are talking a Soviet-style RMBK reactor of a type that the US would never even consider dreaming of thinking about building, you get more radiation from rocks than from nuclear plants. High tension power lines are far more of a cancer risk than nuclear plants. Smoke detectors, medical equipment,and especially Radon will expose you to far more radiation than living near a nuclear plant.

But if y’all don’t trust science and prefer anecdotal evidence over quantifiable facts then explain how the area where I grew up has average rates of cancer and birth defects despite being <10 miles form a nuclear plant? If 80% of the people in this thread are correct then I should have green skin, 3 eyes, and have died 20 years ago.

More info

@gailcalled Further proof that non-nuclear hazards are more prevalent and more deadly than a nuclear plant.

@talljasperman They are pretty strict about who they have in the plants and about safety. Even moreso after 3 Mile Island, ramped up a notch after 9/11, and given steroids after Fukushima. I know many of the measures and protocols, and trust me, they leave nothing to chance. The fact that we won’t allow RMBK-type reactors alone is proof that we take nuclear safety seriously in the US, a land where public opinion trumps reality.

2davidc8's avatar

Ah, @jerv, but there are different kinds of radiation. One needs to consider that.
Smoke detectors, one can buy smoke detectors that don’t use radiation.
And 10 miles is lot more distant than 6 km. The radiation drops off as the inverse of the square of the distance.

jerv's avatar

@2davidc8 I am familiar with the different types of radiation; Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Neutron, X-ray…. My first day of Reactor Principles had a refresher course on the stuff I learned back in 6th, 7th, 9th, 11th, and 12th grade science, but they recapped it again in the first 10 minutes of RadFunds just to make sure.

I am familiar with the Inverse-square law, but any radiation that is harmful at 6km would at least be detectable at 10 miles. And when the radiation levels are actually higher 35, 50, or 100 miles from the plant than at 10 miles, one has to wonder how much radiation is from the plant and how much of that is other things. Do you eat? Breathe? Live within 10 AU of a stellar mass? If so, you are exposed to more radiation in a month than a normally functioning nuclear plant gives off in a year.

The average person working at a nuclear plant is only exposed to 5–6 times the radiation of the average American and they are a lot closer than 6 Km. And those in the Navy who work on submarine reactors are actually exposed to less radiation than land-lubbers. Considering a fast attack sub averages around 300 feet long and <40 feet in diameter, they are actually closer to the plant than those who work at a land-based plant.

As for the smoke detectors most I saw were Alpha emitters, but many who freak out about living near a nuclear plant don’t know how harmless Alpha particles are unless ingested.

2davidc8's avatar

Thank you for your input, @jerv. YMMV, but for me, all else being equal, I’d rather not be that close to such a plant, if I have the choice. If, as you say, “the average person working at a nuclear plant is only exposed to 5–6 times the radiation of the average American”, this suggests to me that there will always be some leakage. Plus, new nuclear material has to be brought into the plant and waste disposed of. Accidents happen. Humans make mistakes.

Still, I’m not as paranoid as I sound. If I really, really liked the place, I’d be OK living there, but where I am right now, I cannot imagine liking a place that much.

CWOTUS's avatar

You somewhat misinterpreted what @jerv actually said, @2davidc8. It’s not that there is “some leakage” to the public of radioactive material or waste at nuclear power plants, but there is always “some amount of radiation”.

It is literally and physically impossible for us, given current technology, to shield ourselves from all electromagnetic radiation. That is why we are all exposed to cosmic radiation, for example – radiation from stars that mankind will never approach, including the Sun – and we’re exposed to all of the radiation coming from the core of our own planet as well. Whether you know if or not and no matter where you are, you’re exposed to radiation from the Rockies in the Western USA, and to radiation from uranium deposits in Africa, too, as well as Chernobyl, Fukujima, Three Mile Island and every safely operating power plant in the USA, France and the rest of the world, not forgetting all of the nuclear submarines operating in the world, wherever they may be. You’re exposed to all of that, and you can’t avoid it. If there is life around Alpha Centauri then that is exposed to – and receiving – some of our radiation, too.

You can increase the shielding between yourself and those sources, and you can increase the distance between yourself and those sources and you can decrease the time you spend in close proximity to high radiation sources such as Xray machines, transcontinental flights, trips to the mountains and… coal mines and buildings made of concrete.

For those who have a pathological dread of “radiation is bad; it’s killing us”, that may seem like bad, bad news. But most scientists and doctors who have studied radiation and its health effects – good people who are not employed as shills for the nuclear power industry, the defense industry, the mining companies or the government – have determined that the health effects of the low-level background radiation that we’re all exposed to are nil. (Some suggest that it’s actually beneficial.) Almost no one with any credibility – no one that I know of, in fact – says that “all radiation is dangerous and bad” and we must increase our shielding.

Furthermore, because of the stochastic nature of radioactive decay, if you took a radiation detector into your home today – where it would “read” background radiation even if you live in the safest house in town – there’s no way of knowing whether the random indications that reader would give are emissions from Alpha Centauri, the Sun, your grandpa’s radium-dial watch, or Chernobyl or a submarine on the other side of the planet. The reader would give more-or-less random indications that “there’s a wave” and “there’s a wave” and “there’s a wave” – but there would be no way for you to tell (in the case of background radiation) where those waves originate.

Now, if the radiation detector starts to indicate “more than background radiation”, then an investigator would track that to see whether there might be something in or around your house that’s emitting more than should be expected. Radon gas coming from beneath your foundation is often suspect, and in some parts of the country it is expected – and dealt with. Even some of the house contents can be more radioactive than normal, including the concrete of the foundation. If it’s the power plant next door, then the plant owner will have an especially great interest in locating and containing the source of any radiation that you may be experiencing.

I think that in @jerv‘s generally excellent write-up, he might have more accurately stated that “radiation workers” at power plants “may receive” 5–6 times the annual radiation dose of the average American, but that’s just because they so frequently work so much closer to extremely high levels of radiation inside the plant itself. And that 5–6 times is only measurable on devices that they’re required to wear to monitor their exposure; you can’t tell and they can’t tell by any health consequences, “Oh, look at the effect all that radiation has had on him” at the end of his life. You can’t tell, and doctors can’t tell.

The annual levels of exposure that the NRC permits to radiation workers are calculated as a fractional amount of an expected lifetime dose where “we still can’t predict any certain – or even likely – harm from this amount”. People in the plant who don’t work with radiation directly, including office workers and other non-technical people, don’t have any more exposure than you or I – and right now I live about 60 miles from the nearest operating plant.

The biggest danger to living near an operating nuclear power plant – a much larger danger by far, in fact – is the likely media-driven panic that may occur among ignorant people if an event of some kind were to occur. That’s a danger worth thinking about, in fact. So if you’re one of those people who would panic over something that you don’t know anything about, then it would be a good idea to stay away from that plant. (But don’t stay in a cave, because the natural radiation occurring from materials inside and beneath the cave might be worse than being in the parking lot of the nuke plant.)

People who understand radiation and its effects do not fear it unreasonably, though they do respect it. Be one of those people.

jerv's avatar

@2davidc8 The new material coming in and the waste is why plant workers get a higher dose than the average person. But since you already have your mind made up, no amount of facts or reality will alter your opinion. I can do nothing with willful misinterpretations.

jerv's avatar

I forget to mention that that average includes those who actually go inside the reactor containment vessel. It’s not leakage if you’re on the same side of the shielding as the radiation source. @CWOTUS implied that by mentioning that those who work in the office of the plant aren’t exposed to increased radiation, but I thought that needed to be made clear.

2davidc8's avatar

Thank you, @CWOTUS, for your carefully considered input. I’m afraid we’re hijacking the OP’s question, but I wanted to thank you for your time.

I don’t think I’m fearing radiation unreasonably. As I said, all else being equal, why not avoid the extra risk? But if there is something special about the property (great location, exceptional schools, fabulous views, bargain price, pleasurable year-round climate, etc.), hey, I would consider it.

I would also like to point out that there are many different kinds of radiation, and they’re not all equally damaging. The above discussions seem to lump all kinds of radiation together. IIRC, the kinds of radiation associated with nuclear power plants are on the nasty end of the scale, however.

jerv's avatar

I think it all boils down to perceived risk. It’s obvious that there is a difference of opinion on the actual risk involved (differing levels of perceived risk). Myself, I know the risks involved and consider hundreds of other things in my daily life to pose far more of a risk than something I already did for a couple of decades. Others have their own views and consider the risks far greater than I believe them to be.

The real question, OP, is how comfortable you would feel living there. Personally, I would; id be more comfortable than I am driving to work each day. But that’s me.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

Most of our plants are > 30yrs old, It just takes one accident or natural disaster….. That said, I ride motorcycles and I do know that there are greater risks there. The difference is it only affects me and not an entire population.

jerv's avatar

@ARE_you_kidding_me Valid point; the severity of the consequences of a nuclear accident are far greater than, say, a motorcycle accident.

That said, I think it safe to say that motorcycle accidents killed more people last year than nuclear plants have in my lifetime. How you personally view the equation of risk = (likelihood * severity) is up to you. I have my own views on that equation; a view that apparently puts me in a small minority.

FYI, I used to have the same fears as most here seem to until I learned the science and served with many who lived within 500 feet of multiple reactors.

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