Do your beliefs really have a noticable imapact on your day to day life (see details)

Nope.

Other than trying to be a nice person, ditto, nope.
I “believe” in being helpful, pleasant and friendly to others, and I also believe in calling an ass an ass if they’re wearing the asshat. lol

Every day.

As I’ve said on other threads, I live my life by looking at evidence and understanding science. It’s not natural; wanting to believe in something is a part of human nature. For me it take constant vigilance and concentration to make sure that I keep my personal lens focused.

No.

Yes, my beliefs keep me from blowing my boss’ head off. That and the fear of jail.

As a non religious person, I concentrate on my belief (sometimes it’s more of a hope) that we, as human beings. can get along and survive our existence on earth by being caring, cooperative people. I do my best to be that kind of person, because that is my belief.

Nope, you’d never know. I don’t wear gold chains with crosses on them or wear funny long skirts and stuff. Okay, I have one long skirt…lol I even have been known to drink on occasion and cut up! ;)

@Rarebear . . . I understand that but what I’m wondering with this question is does it make food taste different? Does it make you constipated? Does it make your car run funny or the clocks run at different times? Does it change the way the cashier at the grocery store rings you up? Does it change the weather? Does it mow the lawn? Does it cause gingivitis?

Does it really have an impact on regular old day to day life?

i guess this could be @everyone who didn’t read the details. shame on you skimmin’ sons a bitches.

We are all a collection of our beliefs, past experiences, ideas and thoughts. It is that what makes us who we are.

I think whoever we are enables us to deal with what we are given to deal with each day. That is the importance of it. Imagine for example a person battling with cancer who’s strength is God then they are told that God is a fairy? The mind is a powerful thing and part of the mind is our beliefs.

Absolutely. Because I am an Atheist, I never kill people.

@Blondesjon I understood the question and I answered truthfully and honestly. “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn’t go away.” —Philip K. Dick.

And the answer to your question is absolutely. It has the effect of how MY day to day life is. That’s the OP. Everything I experience I run through the lens of skepticism—sometimes consciously and sometimes unconsciously.

Not a fucking ounce of difference.

Extreme everyday fervor and fanaticism exists at many levels. Ask any college football fan in Alabama which team (Univ of Alabama or Auburn) God loves most, and which one deserves to burn in Hell. You will likely receive a very serious, passionate answer from fans of both, and they will be happy to personally pay for Satan’s gas bill.

There will always be Almighty God worshipers, Satan worshipers, and devout atheists. And they’ll all be happy to corner you for hours on end to spout their beliefs (or non-beliefs).

You just generally won’t hear much from the quite contented “I don’t give a shit either way” majority…

@Rarebear . . . I was looking more for actual real life examples along the lines of, well, reality. Do your pants fit differently because you do/don’t believe? Does spaghetti sauce smell different because you do/don’t believe? Do you make less money at work because you do/don’t believe? Does your vacuum cleaner suck up more dirt because you do/don’t believe?

This is not just an example for you. It is also an example for all the thread skimmers/details skippers on here as well.

you fuckers know who you are and i’ll bet you didn’t see this . . .

GQ

Yes
I can gerk my menkorkin without guilt

Point taken, Blondesjon, and I am one of the guilty, having rambled away from your point.

A better answer is yes, since learning to (respect but) merely tolerate all of this religious finger-wagging and arm-waving many years ago, food and beer and coffee taste better, guilt-free rock & roll sounds better, ‘naughty sex’ and worry-free days relative to “what might happen when I die” are happier and light-years better in every way…

Atheism is not a belief.

” In fact, the only time religious belief/non-belief comes up in my life is when someone wants to debate it for no other reason than to prove they are ‘right’.”

Really?

Nothing holds up to sharp relief the influence of religion on our daily lives as a passing through of Salt Lake City. Imagine this for America. Many do and there are many enclaves with Salt Lake City leanings.

I would say your naivete was refreshing if it was not so dangerous.

” Absolutely. Because I am an Atheist, I never kill people. ”

I can’t say that but the incidence of people being killed for and by religion so far outstrips the deaths due to atheism that there is no comparison. ( please, no Pol Pot. Mao and other dictators that really did not kill in the name of atheism )

@Neodarwinian . . . Again, I am searching for examples of a direct influence in your day to day doings. I see none of that in your post.

@Blondesjon I’m sorry I’m not answering the question the way you want me to answer your question. When I pee, I look at the parabolic arc of the urine. When I see water come out of a faucet, I look at the laminar or turbulent flow (actually won a science fair award for this question). When I step on the brakes, I will muse on the calculus behind the deceleration of the car. When the clouds move, I think about the high prevailing winds. When I drink a beer, I look at the pattern of the bubbles and marvel at the hexagon shape because it’s the lowest energy shape, and think about how it resembles a honeycomb or tree bark. Similarly, when I look at tree bark patterns, I think of foam on the ocean. When I see the waves, I think about the weather systems thousands of miles away that generated the movement. As time moves, I think about the relationship between time and how time is to a fourth dimension space like a plane is to a three dimensional space.

Do you see? EVERYTHING I look at I look through the lens of trying to understand the natural world. And yes, when I put my belt on in the morning, I think about fitness, cardiovascular health and caloric balance, and when I walk, I will think about the wonderful balancing act my cerebellum grants me.

Nope.

I have a five year old who started kindergarten this year. A kid in his class lives just around the corner.

The kid’s mom is a Jehovah’s Witness. It was, like, the second thing she said to me when we met at the bus stop. So I told her I was an atheist. Since we were apparently sharing religion information.

The woman drives her three kids to the bus stop – which is literally less than 100 yards from her front door, and the boy has not YET been allowed to come out to play.

…for example.

@Rarebear . . . And does the way any of that natural world behaves change based on whether you do or don’t believe in a god?

@Seek_Kolinahr . . . Thank you. That’s exactly what I’m looking for.

@Blondesjon – I see where you’re going with this question – and in a sense, I appreciate a “we’re all human, and nothing really matters” type of sentiment…occasionally. But your question and following comments narrow this issue so much that the only way I could answer it would be to probably respond with describing my scientific skepticism, which influences my daily life as well as my lack of belief. Or I could describe my alienation. Or I could bring up specific instances throughout the years.

But a more important question to me would not be to ask people what they feel is the implication of belief or lack of belief in their lives. Rather, it would be to look at the real world day-to-day implications of such beliefs on much of the world. We could start with children being raised in fundamentalist sects in this country, and we could eventually end up talking about women living in Afghanistan.

@tom_g . . . It’s not a matter of we’re all human and nothing really matters.

It’s a matter of how folks exponentially overreact to a subject that, in all reality, hardly impacts their personal, day to day lives at all.

Yeah, e-man is pouting with his Wii right now because we just rode bikes past there, and Mom called the kid in to ‘do homework’. He doesn’t have homework. They’re in the same class, moron.

@Seek_Kolinahr Are you saying they are purposely avoiding the atheist? You would think the JW would be out trying to influence you towards God not avoiding you and your son.

If it’s between saving me and not tainting her sons with wild ideas of Halloween costumes and birthday parties… screw the atheist.

@Blondesjon: ”@tom_g . . . It’s not a matter of we’re all human and nothing really matters.
It’s a matter of how folks exponentially overreact to a subject that, in all reality, hardly impacts their personal, day to day lives at all.”

Oh, I misunderstood. Then I completely disagree.

For starters, just because I am a man and don’t experience sexism isn’t a good reason to shut up about it. Just because I make six figures isn’t sufficient reason for me to not run my mouth about inequality and poverty. Just because I don’t live in a theocracy isn’t any reason I shouldn’t oppose it and shut up about the treatment of people in those countries. Just because I am not currently living as a theist, doesn’t mean that I should shut up about it. The large majority of the country – my country – are theists whose beliefs inform their actions and votes.

Does my ice cream taste different because I am no longer a Catholic? I don’t know.

Movies are way better without the guilty feeling you get when you know the pastor just preached against the demons of Hollywood.

Yes, quite a bit. From the ages of 15 to 21 I wanted to be a rabbi. More than that – it was the only career I could really see myself in, both to make my family proud and to be happy in my work. In college I studied philosophy and religion and decided to write my thesis on what I saw as the largest barrier to faith: the fact that evil exists in the world in spite of the supposed creation of that world by, and continual presence of, an omnipotent and omnibenevolent God. I wrote an excellent paper and did a great defense. But in the defense, one of my profs asked a question that made me realize I couldn’t make my plans for seminary: “Do you believe in what you have written?” I sat paralysed for a moment, then answered honestly that if I were to believe in God, that yes, this is how I would believe. But I don’t, so all I can say is that my paper outlines the most logical solution to the problem of theodicy.

And I realized that such a statement would be wholly unsatisfying and insulting to anyone in my hypothetical congregation looking for comfort in the face of suffering. Which would be a large part of my job, as a rabbi. And for that matter, wouldn’t it simply be disingenuous to be a rabbi and not believe in God? I thought so, and still do.

My entire career path would be different if I believed in God.

@tom_g . . . Where did I say anything about anybody shutting up? And what type of voting, that was influenced by theist/atheist belief, has impacted you personally the most?

@wildpotato . . . That is an outstanding example. Thank you.

Also, sex is WAY WAY BETTER when you’re allowed to like it.

@Blondesjon: “Where did I say anything about anybody shutting up?”

Again, I probably misunderstood you. I thought you were saying that people just generally want to prove that they’re right. I’m saying that proving you are right is a valuable exercise – even if your day-to-day isn’t necessarily consumed by the issue.

I could do this all day…

Wearing pants is awesome. Cutting my hair? The best. Well, almost the best. Dyeing my hair is the best.

Music is way better when you escape the repetitive Jesus crap.

Alcohol. Good gravy, do I love gin.

@Seek_Kolinahr . . . But is it really better because of what you do or don’t believe? I know a lot of devout Catholics that love gin too.

Yes it is.

I thought your original post regarding theistic/atheistic interaction was an example of your question, not the intent. In the case of my atheism, yes. Again, I look at it through the lens of evidence, and I live my life through that lens. God is included in that lens. When I go to Shul I think (and teach to my atheist daughter) how Judaism can be applied to a secular world through mitzvah. I am MUCH happier in my life knowing that there is no evidence of God and the natural world can be completely explained through reason and science. Again, I’m sorry you don’t like my answer.

@wildpotato http://www.theatheistrabbi.com/
My grandfather wasn’t a a rabbi, but he was an atheist Orthodox Jew.
And a local congregation (not mine) is led by an atheist rabbi and he’s well liked. Most of my friends in my own synagogue are atheists.

@Rarebear . . . Your answer was beautifully written and well thought out. I love your answer.

It just doesn’t answer my question.

@Blondesjon ok. Can you please restate your question for me as I’m obviously not understanding it?

But I wasn’t a devout Catholic. Or a devout Hindu. But there’s no point in mentioning how awesome beef is without a god, because I never experienced a beef restriction.

If you want me to point out noticeable changes in my daily life, I’ll do that.

Or I can just point out the negative effects of being an atheist in America. But then that’s not really EVERY day stuff, is it?

A shit ton of normal everyday things were prohibited to me because I believed in god. I have spent the last five years rediscovering the world. So yes, atheism does affect my every day life.

@Rarebear
She wants examples of your beliefs affecting trivial nonsense that obviously can not be directly affected by it, in order to “demonstrate” that your beliefs do not matter.
Notice how she is questioning seek’s fact that not having a belief that condemns certain actions, makes these actions more enjoyable due to a lack of enforced guilt.

@Seek_Kolinahr . . . It would be relevant if you pointed out a negative effect that had a real impact on your day to day life. I never once said that it had to be positive. It only has to be personal.

@ragingloli . . . I don’t care what anybody else believes. It doesn’t impact me one way or another. I just want to know why I’m special that way and everybody else seems to have money riding on whether or not there is a god.

@ragingloli I see what you mean now. Although I am looking forward to a clarification if it is forthcoming.

Everything I mentioned is true, everyday stuff that is directly personally affected by my now lack of belief. I don’t know what you want from me.

What seek said.

While my beliefs have nothing to do with religion, they directly influence my behavior and I wish more people espoused my belief in the human race. One can use it whether a deist or a non-believer. As a direct result of my belief, I am more patient with people I might have detested or even just found annoying. My blood pressure stays lower. I am less quick to jump to conclusions or to lose hope. I laugh more easily. Trials and tribulations are more bearable. In general, I stay calm.

@Blondesjon
What an opaque bubble you live in.
Someone in the past believed in women’s rights, and fought for them. That is why you can vote, have your own job, and are not forced to be the slave of a man.
Someone believed that the claims of religion were wrong. That is why you have every single piece of technology in your room right now.
Most people believe that punching people is wrong. That is why your face is not a bloody pummeled mess right now.

If you want a crazy boring read,

This is the bullshit I grew up with

This is the official doctrine of holiness standards for the UPCI.

Read that, and you’ll understand why I was an atheist for a year before I dared to cut my hair.

@Seek_Kolinahr Wow. That’s…frightening. I just skimmed it and was horrified.

@Seek_Kolinahr . . . So all of your personal tastes are based on whether or not a god exists?

@Rarebear . . . I suppose if I put it to you the way I just put it to @Seek_Kolinahr you did answer my question. One of those GAs up there is from me.

@ragingloli . . . Personally believing/not believing in a god and women’s suffrage are two totally different subjects. Unless you care to make the connection for me?

“It would be relevant if you pointed out a negative effect that had a real impact on your day to day life. I never once said that it had to be positive. It only has to be personal.”

Negative effect of what?

Of being an atheist in America. He was riffing off my comment.

@Blondesjon
the connection is the so called holy book that commands women’s subservience.
It is the same connection that denies marriage rights to gays in the US, threatens the freedom and health of gays in Russia, and threatens the very lives of gays in Uganda.
Would you like me to draw it on your face with permanent marker?

Jon, the best way I can put it to you is this -

I lived the vast majority of my life with my arms tied to my sides. When I was 22, the ropes fell off. Since then, I’m no longer peeling bananas with my feet.

@Rarebear . . . A negative effect from believing/not believing in a god.

@Seek_Kolinahr . . . No riffing. I’m completely serious.

You can claim it’s not affecting my life, but you would be incorrect.

Riffing = playing off of… like playing guitars…. I wasn’t implying you were not being serious.

Oh. A guy I know stopped talking to me because he found out I was an atheist. He will still talk to me about professional issues, but any real personal interaction is gone. My daughter, even though she goes to a secular school, feels the need to keep her atheism secret. She tells people she’s Jewish, but only her close friends know she’s an atheist. Personal enough for you?

Oh, I’ll add, I’ve long ago stopped keeping my atheism a secret and I will mention it when it comes up in conversation. I have had people literally take a step backward from me when I tell them.

@Seek_Kolinahr . . . I’m haven’t made any claims. I only asked a question.

A lot of comedians use the term riffing as well. Riffing=playing off of . . . like during improvisation. = when they are making it up as they go along

@Rarebear . . . Absolutely.

@ragingloli . . . All holy books and all believers? There are no misogynistic atheists out there? You actually believe that folks in power really believe in anything other than themselves?

Besides, I don’t believe I specified any type of religion in particular. I just asked about a personal belief/non-belief in a god and how it impacts a person in their own day to day life.

I didn’t write it in marker but it is printed above and throughout this thread.

@Rarebear – would that you had been around for my lap chole last year. I had to go to a Catholic hospital. I was terrified.

Last week, a woman I met at work was a JW. She gave me a brochure, I said I wasn’t religious, but she carried on talking to me until I brought up the marriage between my boyfriend’s two gay friends that I was really happy about. She suddenly had to be somewhere else. But, yeah, I get Seek and Rarebear’s comments totally. Our thought processes and self talk through the day is absolutely part of our every day lives, and filter out nonsense and I have even rolled my eyes loudly after hearing illogical arguments and out-of-line comments. I will also post things on my facebook page to share small facts or outrageous things that strike me as worth sharing because of my beliefs.

@Seek_Kolinahr Actually, Catholic hospitals are fine in my book and deliver good care. Just so long as you don’t want birth control or an abortion.

I misspoke. Just checked, and it’s Seventh Day Adventist. Not Catholic. It was weird, all the Jesusy stuff all over the place, signs talking about their mission to continue the healing ministry of Christ, blah blah…

@Seek_Kolinahr The people who work in those hospitals are just doctors and nurses hired by the hospital. They don’t have to be of the religion to work there.

Still, who do you have to kill to get a hospital run by NOT a church?

Not in the least. My belief or lack thereof does not change what time I leave for work in the morning, whether or not my car starts, or other things I do on an average day. Unlike @Seek_Kolinahr‘s asshat neighbor, my stand on religion also does not impact when or where my kids do their homework.

I would guess there are believers who’s lives are impacted day to day/moment by moment by what they believe (i.e. the moral choices they make). I’d be willing to bet though that it has nothing to do with believing in God and everything to do with believing in hell.

”Do your beliefs really have a noticable impact on your day to day life?”

Where I live, no, not generally.
But who says all I care about is my personal, day-to-day life?

@LilCosmo . . . I agree completely sir. You still have to choose how you react to any given situation.

I guess I’m in the minority when I say that my belief/non-belief in a god doesn’t really come in to play when making that kind of choice nor does it influence my choice of what I do or do not like.

OK, I did pray that the Dolphins would rise up and beat the friggin’ Patriots yesterday, but that went straight down the toilet.

So, no more prayin’ for me. That’s it.

I’m out.

@OneBadApple . . . That was my upset pick for the pool at work. The first half had me starting to believe again and the second half reminded me why I don’t.

And don’t even get me started on how bad that Dallas debacle fucked my picks. Why call it a prevent defense if it doesn’t fucking prevent anything?

go packers

Sons-o-bitches !!!

Yes. I’m a devout non-believer. Because this is the only life I get, I try to make it a decent one. I’m not a leader or someone who changes the world in profound ways; I just make an effort to be kind, fair, and honest to anyone I encounter.

@Blondesjon

Why limit yourself?

Here are examples from where I live on how the beliefs of others, christains, have an impact on my daily life. I live in Albuquerque.

Bus service. No bus service on holidays due to religious reasons.

Bernallio County ( my county ) Sheriffs. Until the courts got involved the graduation ceremonies for new deputies were held at Legacy church, a mega-church of the evangelical variety. Sermonizing was standard. I do not wish my law enforcement to be that close to god, so to speak.

This church, Legacy, has members on the city council, county, commissions, education boards and the above mentioned law enforcement agencies. The pastor of this massive monolith presumed to lecture the mayor and the Governor of NM on their administrations having gay members. The pastor vows to use his considerable influence to oppose this practice.

Sunday. This place is a ghost town on Sunday and many services, from liquor to restaurants and much in between are closed or severely limited.

Abortion. The opposition to choice is really going overboard here and picketing private dwellings. Laws are being drafted to stop this practice.

These and many other examples is why the beliefs of others impact my daily life.

As for my beliefs impacting life, I don’t ” believe in things ” and my belief is predicated on evidence.

That evidence shows me a world beyond the delusions of some and the beauty of the inner workings of nature.

My beliefs impact my life daily. Just look at a plant, below the surface beauty, and see the beauty of the photosynthetic process, further on the Calvin cycle of C3 plants. I have never seen it with my eyesbut by the evidence I can believe that succinate dehydrogenase is doing it’s job in the cycle that gives life to most of earth’s creatures.

If you don’t know John Mayer’s song “Belief,” PLEASE read the lyrics and then listen to it.

Is there anyone who
Ever remembers changing there mind from
The paint on a sign?
Is there anyone who really recalls
Ever breaking rank at all
For something someone yelled real loud one time

Everyone believes
In how they think it ought to be
Everyone believes
And they’re not going easily

Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword
Like punching under water
You never can hit who you’re trying for

Some need the exhibition
And some have to know they tried
It’s the chemical weapon
For the war that’s raging on inside

Everyone believes
From emptiness to everything
Everyone believes
And no ones going quietly

We’re never gonna win the world
We’re never gonna stop the war
We’re never gonna beat this
If belief is what we’re fighting for

What puts a hundred thousand children in the sand
Belief can
Belief can
What puts the folded flag inside his mother’s hand
Belief can
Belief can

@Neodarwinian . . . Now was that so hard to do? Thank you. Excellent answer.

@Blondesjon

” Personally believing/not believing in a god and women’s suffrage are two totally different subjects. Unless you care to make the connection for me? ”

I think I see the problem. Read about the ” drive in ”, so to speak, in Saudi Arabia and you might find a connection.

” Now was that so hard to do? Thank you. Excellent answer. ”

Thank you, but I though mu tale was universal across the US.

@Neodarwinian . . . I will concede that connection. When groups of like minded individuals get together to make shit happen it is not always good shit.

I will say that the individuals who often act as the glue that holds such groups together may not believe at all. I’m thinking these individuals use the real belief of others as a means of manipulation to achieve ends that are entirely their own.

Does not affect my job, my family life, my choice of clothes, what I watch on TV, what I listen to on the radio, who I choose as friends, who I choose not to be friends with.

@Blondesjon

” I will say that the individuals who often act as the glue that holds such groups together may not believe at all. I’m thinking these individuals use the real belief of others as a means of manipulation to achieve ends that are entirely their own. ”

Indeed. Those ends are always human; money and power

If you don’t give a shit if we in the USA substitute young earth creationism for teaching real science, then beliefs make no difference. If you think it’s just fine if religious institutions buy up hospitals and refuse to offer birth control or abort a pregnancy that is going to kill the mother and child, then beliefs make no difference. If it’s perfectly OK that pharmacists refuse to fill prescriptions because the doctor’s orders conflict with their religious beliefs, then beliefs make no difference. If you think it’s fine when people fly airplanes full of passengers into building with thousands of innocent people in them because their religious belief compels them to do so, then beliefs make no difference. If you want to see public education privatized, with vouchers so that churches can take over education and teach what they want to further enrich the coffers of their church instead of preparing pupils for life in the technological 21st century, then beliefs make no difference. If you think more people should die of AIDS because the Catholic Church wants to teach that condoms don’t prevent it, they cause it, then beliefs make no difference. I could go on and on. Fatwas to kill writers like Salmon Rushdie and cartoonists. Genital mutilation. Honor killings.

I don’t think any of those things are right. I think beliefs make a great deal of difference.

I’m just glad I don’t live in that backwater Louisiana
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Science_Education_Act

I don’t go to church. I don’t talk to anyone outside of fluther about religion. It never comes up.

I have never actually fought for my religion or what I believed in until I came onto fluther.

@KaY_Jelly I think you have the perfect right to fight for your own religious beliefs. I also think others have the right to show flaws in them. But my real problem is summed up in the rule, “Your right to swing your fist stops at my nose.” I have a big problem with religious beliefs that assert their right to legislate what all of us are able to do. Think the inquisition. That was a religious belief I’d have had major quarrels with, and I’d probably have been put to death for taking exception to their “religious freedom”.

@ETpro Point taken. I also have a big problem with religious groups who assert their right to legislate what we are able to do.

Yes I definitely believe that if I put my beliefs out there that others have the right to show flaws in my logic. I also have tried very hard to educate myself on being somewhat logical when it comes to what for me is Christianity. I have always taken more of philosophical approach on it and unfortunately not everyone can understand that area, which ends up sometimes being essays just to give an explanation for the people who are not so philosophically inclined. Logic is the same.

Many days I have to just take a break from it all, other days I just can’t give it up, depends on the mood, being bipolar and all that is.

Every day.

People trust me less because I’m not of their faith. I have less legal protection because I don’t share their faith. I can get into jail or worse for vocalizing anything negative about their faith.

I cannot eat in restaurants by myself, talk to women I don’t know, or sit on a bench with them. Take a lady friend out for dinner. All because of their faith.

My kids run similar risks as I, so I teach them to shut up about religion.

Sure… I don’t live in a run-of-the-mill country, but faith is in every aspect of life.

BTW… when visiting the US, I see that a lot of people are very suspicious of people that don’t share their faith, as well. Would you expect an atheist president soon?

That is horrible @whitenoise, and absolutely wrong that you are treated that way.

It is what it is.

And it is not all bad… One needs to deal with it pragmatically.

However… History has shown that religion tends to involve itself in state matters whenever the opportunity arises. For people to be afraid/ cautious of that is – from my point of view – very rational and wise. Even if you don’t live in a country like the one I live in.

@ETpro . . . Those are all outstanding examples but they are not what I asked for.

I want examples that impact your personal, day to day life that are caused directly by your belief/non-belief in a god. Have you ever been the victim of any of your examples above?

@Blondesjon – It seems that many of us have completely misunderstood the question. It must be frustrating.

One possible explanation for why people are not answering this correctly is that we might be interpreting the question’s intent. Our assumptions about your intent here might be correct, or we could be way off. But the jump to find intent might be a result of the fact that the question itself is practically meaningless. It is screaming for some kind of meaning.

If you simply wanted people to explain how certain senses (“spaghetti sauce” odor) can be affected by having a belief vs. not having a belief, then I think this thread would have devolved into pancakes silliness immediately.

But if your wanted to ask about the actions you take “day-to-day” life (“I still get up, go to work, come home, and go to bed. I still have fun on the weekends, enjoy time with my family, and run errands.”), then we’d have to either imagine a particular day or set of days, or be stuck averaging our life down to a few “normal” days. Either way, there would likely be clarification needed on whether or not to exclude large events such as 9/11, the election of a president, the fight for reproductive freedom, creationism creep into science education, or whether we were allowed to marry who we love. Does that stuff make up our day-to-day, or does it only represent certain events?

Either way, the intent of the question could easily be interpreted as an attempt at claiming that the whole issue of belief/theism/religion is masturbatory and strictly used as ego-boosters (“In fact, the only time religious belief/non-belief comes up in my life is when someone wants to debate it for no other reason than to prove they are ‘right’.”).

So, maybe you could really clear up some of the confusion. Specifically, what type of details are you looking for? What are you not looking for? What qualifies as affecting us? For example, do laws that affect our children’s reproductive freedom, science education, marriage, and possible engagement in wars affect us, or does that not qualify? And what does it mean to refer to something as “day-to-day”? If things are occasional or cyclical, does that count?

I’ll also add that there are some people here (@seek, for example) who have recent experience with belief, so they are more able to compare the difference in their lives. But some of us (ok, me) haven’t been believers in 30 years, and it would be unfair to compare our experiences between being 10 years old and 40 years old.

Anyway, I hope this helps. It’s frustrating to ask a question and have people completely go off in another direction completely.

Haha. @tom_g – so tempting to take off from the spaghetti sauce comment into Pastafarianism.

But I still want to try to take this seriously.

R’amen.

The term “believe” can be used in different ways. One can believe that God exists or that no God exists at all. That is quite different than when someone encourages another by saying, “I believe in you.” If a father says to his son, “You can do it; I believe in you,” he’s not saying, “I believe you exist.”

James, the brother of Jesus, points out that Satan believes that God exists and that Jesus is His Son. If we simply believe in the existence of God, we’re not doing any more than Satan does. Jesus said that we should love God and love others. It’s impossible to start doing that without that change in behavior and change in attitude impacting one’s day to day life. A person who loves God lives in harmony with the universe, and a person who loves others becomes less selfish.

“Satan” is an anagram for “Santa”

Coincidence ??......I don’t think so….

also, just noticed this, @Blondesjon – ‘imapact’

@OneBadApple You aren’t serious are you?

I’m off to watch Deep Imapact.

@JLeslie no lie, that was the reason my old church used to preach against Santa.

@Seek_Kolinahr But, Santa is from Saint. I guess some of the Christians have trouble with the Saints though. I can completely understand why some Christians would be against celebrating the more secular parts of Christimas since a lot of it is taken from the Pagan holiday Yule and secular traditions. One could argue Santa takes away from and waters down the real reason for Christmas, to celebrate the birth of Jesus.

I can’t imagine being in a church that would preach against Santa. The differences between some Christian denominations and mainstream Christianity is about as much as the differences in other world religions.

JLeslie, very few Christians have a problem with Santa Claus. Most Christians take their children to see Santa and have presents under the tree from Santa. The only group I know of that opposes Santa is Jehovah Witness. That’s not a Christian denomination.

@GrandmaC – um, yes it is. They use the same Bible you do.

@JLeslie my pastor was an idiot.

@GrandmaC I know most Christians are fine with Santa. Jehovah Wtnesses are Christian, they accept Jesus as their savior. They consider themselves to be Christian.

Jehovah Witness do not use the same Bible other Christians do. They have their own. They do not believe in the Divinity of Jesus. That makes them a different religion and an offshoot of Christianity rather than a Christian denomination.

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/the-god-of-the-jehovahs-witnesses

Jehovah Witness believes Jesus is Michael, the Arc Angel. Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet. They both incorporate Jesus into their religion, but neither believes in the divinity of Jesus.

Forgive me if I don’t consider a Catholic doctrine site a valid source of information pertaining to other Christian sects.

@GrandmaC There is some movement among Christians, a minority of them, not just Jehovah’s, to not celebrate Christmas with the whole Christmas tree and santa bit. Christmas is not in the bible, it is basically accepted historically that Jesus was not born in December.

It’s ironic it is a Catholic site since a large enough number of Protestant sects don’t agree that Catholics are Christian. I do see your point why possibly Jehovah’s might not be considered Christian, but they believe themselves to be Christians as far as I know. My girlfriend when she left being JW now simply calls herself a Christian. If they identify as Christians I accept that. The different bible doesn’t really help your argument, because Baptists and Catholics have different versions of the bible.

I guess none of this has an impact on our day though. Whether people practice Santa Claus or whether JW’s are Christians or not.

Whatever movement there might be against Santa Claus is quite outside mainstream Christianity. Many Christians feel that Christianity has become too commercial and think Christ should get more emphasis than Santa, but not very many are in favor of dropping Santa.

Many consider the definition of Christianity to be the belief in the divinity of Christ. JW does not believe in the divinity of Christ and that separates them from Christian denominations.

I am aware that some Christians, especially Pentecostals, think that Catholics are not Christians but Catholic was the first Christian Church. It separated into 2 branches in 1054. Then in 1518, the Protestant Branch was formed. It’s a little difficult to argue Catholic isn’t a Christian religion when it was the only Christian church for the first thousand years and only one of two for the next 500. Some Protestants use the word Christian when they mean Protestant. They recognize that Roman Catholicism is not a Protestant Denomination. They are correct. Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodox Catholicism are separate branches of Christianity.

Whatever you think of Jehovah’s Witnesses, they are a Christian nomination in my book.

(And according to the people that wrote this wikipedia lemma‘s_Witnesses#Jehovah_and_Jesus_Christ on Jehovah’s Witnesses, as well. They put even more emphasis on Jesus as a link to God than most.)

Seek Kolinahr, you don’t have to use a Catholic site. There’s plenty of others. They wrote their own Bible and they don’t believe in the divinity of Jesus, which is the basis of Christianity.

JLeslie, I wasn’t aware that Baptists have their own translation. The JW Bible is more than just a translation. They changed it to support their beliefs. The Catholic Bible is simply the original Bible as it was originally canonized. After the Protestant Reformation in 1518, Protestants removed several books from the Bible. Martin Luther actually wanted the book of James and the Book of Esther removed, but they stayed. The Catholic Bible simply have all the original books included.

Whitenoise, I suppose it’s all how you look at the definition of the term Christianity. I think the other Christian denominations do recognize the divinity of Christ while JW teaches that Jesus is the angel, Michael.

@GrandmaC If I am honest, it always kind of bothers me when Christians call other groups who identify as Christian not Christian. Some Christians say Mormons aren’t Christian, I take issue with that also. Why does it matter?

I know when I bought my girlfriend a family bible I made sure it was a Catholic one. Whatever the differences are doesn’t matter, I just know I did not go to the Baptist church to buy one for her and she noticed it was the right one and appreciated it.

The difference in the Catholic Bible and a non-Catholic Bible is that the Catholic Bible contains all the original books of the Bible. It’s not a different translation. Right after the Protestant Reformation, several books were removed from the Bible. Catholic Bibles also have different translations. I don’t believe that Baptists have their own Bible. It’s just the Protestant Bible, which comes in various translations.

Books being removed seems like a big deal to me. And, things are lost in translation; I don’t know why that doesn’t count as being a different version. But, we are knit picking now. It’s all just different sects to me of Christianity. I don’t see the point in telling a group they are not Christian when they believe themselves to be.

I think we’re almost 20 comments into a derail.

@tom_g :)

@Blondesjon I think from the answers above people notice an impact in their daily lives if religion is very visible in their community and if their own beliefs either agree with or go sharply against the majority. The theists closest to me don’t talk about God in their daily life so it doesn’t impact me in any way. I have always been an atheist, so God simply does not exist. @Rarebear talked about science, the people closest to me don’t have any conflict with God and science, so I don’t think that is a big deal for me. I am not saying I disagree with @Rarebear, I am not challenging his answer, rather saying my experience regarding science and how I analyze the world.

It’s not a matter of telling JWs they are not Christian when they believe they are. They can consider themselves to be whatever they want.

What I have a problem with is that they go knocking on people’s doors and they try to give them the impression that they are just a Christian denomination. They don’t stress the differences between themselves Christian denominations. Also, those who don’t like Christianity often use them as an example of Christianity.

I agree that removing books from the Bible was a big deal. The Protestant Reformation was a really big deal. It formed a new branch of Christianity which splintered into many denominations. The removal of the books also took out the belief in Purgatory. The book of James was almost removed because James stressed works and Martin Luther preached faith alone.

I thought about this last night, and you know people ask me all the time why I’m so happy when they know my issues with hubs and mom’s health, etc…and the truth is, I never feel alone with God in my life. When I am down or stressed, I release it to Him and let it go. It truly makes a difference in my outlook every morning, knowing He’s here for me. That unconditional love is something I don’t feel often and it truly makes me noticeably HAPPIER!

@Seek_Kolinahr I’m sorry that the JH’s are avoiding you & hurting your son’s feelings, that sucks. Before coming to fluther, I’ll admit that perhaps I thought Atheism=bad or Satanic, not sure why, but I’m glad you guys have changed that for me.

If it makes you feel better, they came over while hubs was mowing and freaked because he was bare chested, they took off and never came back- lol

It didn’t affect me, but it affected that child who died because her parents prayed for her instead of getting her proper medical attention.

Even if it was an isolated incident. There are still many situations to choose from.

If crazy stories of religious people keep showing up in the news then people will continue to talk about it.

@Blondesjon Knowing you and how you relish jumping into religious discussions here to tell me to just keep my thoughts to myself, I strongly suspected the motive @tom_g discussed here as the motivation for this question. It seemed to me you were thinking, “Let’s see, how can we phrase a question such that everyone has to admit religion makes no difference in their lives, and thus they will just STFU about religion.” That may seem desirable just to temporarily keep the peace, but it would let the religious extremists go about their work to rule us all without any opposition. I don’t think you want that, but I do think you harbor resentment from the one religious debate that resulted in a friend of yours leaving Fluther, and this leads you to oppose religious debate here and look for questions to discredit it.

Does my atheism and my desire to live in religious freedom affect my own life? Yes, it does. My previous answer listed all the reasons it does. My desire to have freedom of or from religion is what motivates me to take the time out of my busy day to oppose the kind of religion that seeks not just to guide a single believer’s life, but to impose its requirements on us all. Some of my friends and neighbors had a firsthand experience with religion run amok on April 15th of this year when Islamic fundamentalists set off bombs near the finish line of the Boston Marathon. This year, I decided not to go watch the race, but that doesn’t mean I had no interest in what happened, or that it had no effect on me.

JWs hit my house today. They were carrying the King James Bible. I checked.

Also, it was like they were hardly trying this time. I miss the days of well informed missionaries.

‘Hi! Do you think the Bible is relevant in our day and age?’

‘which part?’

‘All of it.’

Ooh, wrong answer, cookie. Haha!

@Seek_Kolinahr You should read the Mormon bible, now that is interesting.

I’ve read enough to know I have better sci-fi novels.

I read the bible to seek encouragement and peace. I leave out all the nasty bits as I perceive them. Then again I read anything spiritual or encouraging in order to nurture myself even if it is another ‘religion’ or even a quote from another person.

I believe in many things and one is healthy skepticism.

Skepticism has a notable impact on me every day. I also believe in God and in good forms of religions, but I don’t think about this every day. I am not overly religious in everyday life, although I try to obey the Golden Rule every day. About 10 years ago I read the entire Bible cover to cover (took me 6 months or so with plenty of breaks). Church reminds me from time to time that there’s more to life than the bits and bytes my job is about.

Seek Kolinahr, http://ittsy.com/focusonthefaulty/Pages/jehovahs.html

I once swore on the Bible as a witness in a federal Grand Jury case. But I certainly would’ve been truthful without doing that.

And I’m pretty certain that the JWs DO preach the divinity of Jesus. They just do not celebrate Christmas, which the ancient Romans chose as a convenient “birthday” because they were already celebrating the Pagan / Roman winter solstice on Dec 25. Their worship of the sun (and light) is how all of the Christmas lights on trees and houses evolved. They originally worshiped the sun on that day, not Jesus.

JWs don’t just ignore it, but actually resent it for this reason….

I don’t mind swearing on a Bible. I certainly wouldn’t make an issue out of it in a court of law.

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/jws_watchtower_exposed.htm

@GrandmaC What is it that you are trying to show with the links? I can’t speak for everyone, but I will not usually click on a link unless I have been asked to look for something within (so to speak).

@ETpro . . . As always your answer is well worded and thoughtful. It simply doesn’t answer my question.

I would also like for you to point out to me just exactly where in this thread I told anyone to stfu about what they believe. This seems to be your fall back position when you are unable to accurately answer a question. A quick switch to martyr mode and a shrill, “I will not be silenced” is all very well and good but nobody is trying to silence you. I just want an answer to my question.

Perhaps if you went back and read some of the posts on the thread you would see what it is I am after?

@Blondesjon My first answer was responsive to your question. Rejecting it was an attempt to get me to STFU. My second answer explained in detail why my first answer was responsive to your question. Your rejecting that is a blatant attempt to get me to either go along with your program, which you expressed clearly here, or STFU. I’m not going to do either. Deal with it.

@ETpro . . . If you can’t answer just say so. There is absolutely no shame in saying, “I don’t know” when you don’t know. I do it all the time.

It is much more honest than trying to put forth the ludicrous notion that I want you to stfu. Heck, I’ve been trying to get you to do the exact opposite and just give me a non-pat answer to my question.

In all honesty, I got the same feeling from this question, as some other do. You put emphasis on really indicating to me skepticism on whether such influence would be really there.

So far on this thread you seem to be reacting primarily with either disagreement of examples or with agreement when they say there is no impact.

There are serious examples of consequences throughout history and throughout this present world. Moments and places where not believing what the majority does is risky at best. For one’s career, for one’s acceptance and happiness, for one’s safety even.

What do you think of the examples I gave above? You may not recognize the US in it, but it could become like that. People (of any faith or lack thereof) may be very afraid of such intolerant societies. Religion other than your own are therefore threatening and they spread by word of mouth. So it makes a lot of sense that people like to discuss it. Especially in an open minded safe environment as fluther should be.

Crazy fucking bitch just made up some bullshit story to my kid’s bus driver, so now he can’t even SIT with his friend.

Public school is not passing its trial stage.

That’s nasty Miss Kolinahr… What is the context?

My first post on this thread re; the Jehovah’s witness mom of one of my son’s classmates.

Well… so far for you saying that outspoken atheists create a better place for themselves…

Sad state of affairs…

@Seek_Kolinahr Funny, my family and some friends asked me if I have religious right evangelicals around me here. I told them I feel less of that here than in TN, but I know it is around. Whenever my husband talks about living in Clearwater someone mentions all the scientologists live here. If I have met one they haven’t bothered me with their religion.

In TN and NC I rarely mentioned I was an atheist, you might consider the same. I understand if you choose not to live in the “closet” though.

I didn’t live a lie when I was batshit insane, not about to start now.

Your side of the bay is much saner, at least until you get into Pasco.

@Seek_Kolinahr I never lie about it; I omit. In most parts of life I consider omiting lying, but for this, if they are not directly asking me I just don’t divulge. I don’t think my religious beliefs should matter anyway, so I don’t feel bad about it. I also think at worse it can put me in danger in some situations, so I think it is perfectly justified. I think the best way to change minds about atheism is for peope to get to know us. If telling them we are atheists puts up an immediate wall, we never get the opportunity to show we are good people.

I think there is historical evidence that it works well in the long run. Jews changed their names and most purposely tried to assimilate into American culture when they started coming. I know it seems unfair and wrong to half to even consider it. Although, with your neighbor she isn’t your run of the mill religious person, so who really cares how obnoxious she is being. She is way more freaked out about you than you are about her. That should give you some satisfaction.

Yeah, I told my dad we have a bunch of Greeks here, so he doesn’t have to worry. LOL.

@Seek_Kolinahr: How do you know it was a lie? Just curious. I don’t know woman or you or story.

@whitenoise I disagree. Jon reacted with agreement to my reply that non-belief in God has had a major impact on my life, as well as to Seek’s reply about how it is currently impacting her son.

I never saw this question as loaded, more as a straightforward request for stories of how belief and/or non-belief have affected our lives. Obviously Jon’s own (non?)beliefs have informed his reply to the question, which, perhaps unfortunately, he included in the details section. But I don’t think he was being close-minded about replies that didn’t fit the bill for “lack of impact”. The split I see here is more between replies with personal stories versus replies that look at the world and draw out examples of how absolutely everything would be different if Belief reigned, or pointing out differences between back when it did reign and now. To me, this says that Jon, for better or for worse, simply wasn’t trying to elicit the latter type of answer, and these types of answers happen to have been trending towards the “high impact” reply.

@Seek_Kolinahr One more thing to think about. When someone shares their religion you can respond, I am not religious. You don’t have to say atheist. Your neighbor didn’t state she was a theist, did she?

When people would ask me where I go to church, my standard answer was I don’t go to church. If they pushed with invites, I just said I was not religious. Half the time I didn’t even mention I was Jewish, let alone an atheist.

Religious people rarely assume someone is an atheist. I think it doesn’t occur to them. You grew up in a religious household, would you say that is true? It was my experience in the south. People would say to my face things that defnitely showed they assumed I was a believer.

@wildpotato if you read the one paragraph directly above what I am writing you here about people assuming I am a theist, I think this is one of the main reasons my beliefs don’t affect me daily, even when I lived in the bible belt. Another big reason is where I live now, I don’t think most people care what other people believe.

@Seek_Kolinahr May I suggest you ask the woman to tea or for a walk, just one-on-one and explain your atheism, and see what her deal is?

If that fails, kick her butt or something, might as well if she’s going to be a hater anyway. :)

Why people have to involve children in their prejudices is beyond comprehension, that’s why some people just suck.

Stop doing that, SK.

Either put some music to it, or stop altogether….

I don’t doubt that the kids wrestled in the bus seat. They’re five years old and it’s a small, hot bus and a long trip. My son is typically nonviolent. I’ve seen him purposely strike a child once, and frankly the kid was twice his size and a bully, and totally deserved it.

She has three kids on the bus, and I have one – one that has never learned to tattle.

So when my son comes home with scratches on his face, he says he doesn’t remember what happened, and I have no clue what happened, so I refrain from accusatory crap. Kids will be kids.

If her kids saw something wrong with what Ian was doing, she could have discussed it with me, and I would have acted accordingly.

Instead, she storms the bus demanding my son be punished for punching kids in the face.

What. The. Fuck.

Obviously, since there is a driver and three fifth grade safety monitors, I would assume someone would have noticed something if he had actually been intentionally violent.

@Seek_Kolinahr WTF is right.

@wildpotato
Missed those… sorry I must be one of the skimming scumbags. :-)

Your examples don’t take away my overall feeling on the question though. My real life examples were not addressed. Maybe I just feel ignored.

@Blondesjon Ok, how’s this for an answer. Notice the differences in behaviors that choices of religion lead too.

@whitenoise . . . My deepest apologies. I was distracted by some other folks on the thread at the time and then promptly forgot your excellent answer. shame on you skimmers that skipped it You can’t get much more personal than that. You gave exactly the kind of answer I was asking for. Thank you. where in the hell do you live?

@wildpotato . . . No barely concealed agenda, no insults, no condescending attacks? No wonder people are having such a hard time answering :) Thank you for understanding that what I asked was a simple question that required a simple answer. I would also like to thank you for putting it much better than I would have been able to.

@ETpro . . . Thank you for the informative and hilarious link. As far as answers go you might want to read @wildpotato ‘s post above to get a better idea of what I’m looking for.

@Blondesjon
I live in the Middle East.

@Blondesjon Fair enough. Because I believe in healthy skepticism and in basing beliefs on evidence rather than blind faith, I live my life with a great deal of concern regarding the harm that religiosity might bring in a nuclear age. That concern is what drove my first two answers. The desire for Armageddon gets spooky when it’s a wish that can actually be realized.

As far as impacting how one lives, if someone’s “beliefs” have no impact on how they conduct conduct their day to day lives, then I seriously doubt they really believe anything more than “Eat, drink and be merry, Oh Gilgamesh, for tomorrow you will die.”

@ETpro I think that’s a very simplistic response to a question that is not so simple. How many times a day do Christians thank God for food or good ‘luck’? How many times does God come up in our mind or heart?

I think I gave a simple answer, and to get deeper about it, I’d certainly PM the Christians you know here rather than a general Q.

@KNOWITALL If you think that is a simplistic answer, then you either did not read it well enough to understand it or have no concept of the meaning of what I said.

@ETpro Seriously? You need evidence to believe something, got it. Religion in a nuclear age causing harm (in your mind), got it. Desire for Armageddon (in your mind), got it.

You feel something about these things that I do not feel, and I’m still a Christian. Perhaps you are incorrect in your assumptions as I do NOT need evidence to believe in God. I do not fear religion in the nuclear age. I do not desire Armageddon, but I do desire what Armageddon is fortold to herald for Christians.

I find it odd that you are not a Christian but you project your beliefs of our beliefs on us and penalize us for it in your own mind. It’s very odd.

@KNOWITALL I take it you are not a Christian Dominionist, but a lot of Christians are. I’m not projecting that. It is a fact. They are actively working to provoke a nuclear war in Israel. For their own separate reasons, there are a significant number of fundamentalist Jews and a large and growing number of fundamentalist Muslims doing the same thing.

Sources?

http://www.seekingtruth.co.uk/middle_east.htm
http://www.endtime.com/world-war-three/

Don’t worry, though. If you believe in Jesus, you’ll be raptured BEFORE the war happens. So it doesn’t matter if the world gets roasted with nukes, because the True Believers™ won’t be here anyway, just we heatherns.

I used to be a heathen, and slowly evolved into an anarchist.

But these days I’m just a weary old Neighborhood Watch guy.

Good times….

A very tiny minority of Christians believe in rapture.

I don’t believe in Gita
I don’t believe in yoga
I don’t believe in kings
I don’t believe in Elvis
I don’t believe in Zimmerman
I don’t believe in Beatles
I just believe in me

I’m quitting. I think about religion too much out here, it is affecting my life. I give up.

Just nail me to the cross so we can get it done and over with already. †

@KaY_Jelly
Nobody but you yourself is carrying the nails for that!

Please stay, but also please stop from getting into these discussions where you try to proof the validity of faith through logic. That just triggers endless debates that even put me across from you. I hear from many people that PM you, that you have a great many things to offer other than religion.

@whitenoise I understand completely what you are saying. I cannot even begin why though when I come out here the religion threads beg to me. I know that these trigger endless debates, but I at the same time if I say nothing and do not go with my heart I also feel like I am being forced to be silenced.

If I am not quiet then I can only compare that to the likeness of one single piece of cheese thrown out to multiple mice.

I don’t like being silenced and on the other hand it is difficult for me when I have to put up with the majority of non-believers in the thread attacking me. Personally when I think of faith I think of equality and that to me is very logical. But attacks on grammatical errors and spelling mistakes and so on is just plain crap.

If we were talking about me as if I was a gay person people would be outraged right now. Silence is not the answer.

“Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one’s definition of your life; define yourself.”
~“Harvey Fierstein”

Know it all and ET, not very many Christians are Dominionist. The majority of the Arabs surrounding Israel want to see Israel and its Jewish inhabitants destroyed. Many Christians want to see them defended.

@GrandmaC This says Christian Dominionism is a central force driving the Christian Right, which had seized control of one of the two major political parties in the US. That’s not a marginal movement. And if that movement does manage to capture the Senate and the White House, Israel is at great peril. Because these are people who adamantly believe that provoking nuclear Armageddon at the Temple mount will result in their being instantly caught up in the air with Jesus, and the rest of us poor losers left behind to fry in the radioactive fallout. And given absolute control of the US Military, they would have the power to make their vision a reality.

They pose every bit as much threat to the future of Israel as the Islamic religious fanatics on the other side who want a war on the Dome or the Rock do.

@GrandmaC Some for their own selfish reasons. They blindly support Israel to fulfill a prophecy. To rebuild the Temple.

@ETpro Not true at all. We want to protect Israel at all costs.

@JLeslie To a degree, correct.

@KNOWITALL I realize some of those Christians are also well versed in middle east history and geopolitical issues. I didn’t mean it to sound like they all just care about the religious reason for the support of Israel, I should have worded it better.

@JLeslie No worries. Jack Van Impe talks about Isreal all the time.

@KNOWITALL It’s why I say it is a good time in history for the Jews in America. Which, actually in some ways does tie back to the OP’s question. Since the Christians are obsessed with Israel and the Jews, I think it keeps antisemitism in small numbers here, which affects me, and my religious affiliation. I don’t worry about telling people I am Jewish partly because of how Christians support Israel at this time.

Why don’t they just let Woody Allen go over there and speak on behalf of the Israelis….

“Ohh, jeez…..I’m sorry, but I have trouble with authority figures…”

Then he just tears-up the ticket, and everybody goes home…

@KNOWITALL I am relatively certain you would not qualify as a radical right-wing Christian or a Dominionist. So while I am sure my statement is not true of you, it certainly is true of Dominionists.