@ETpro – Thanks! Great, thorough response.
– “We stood up for what was right.”
@ETpro: “In opposing Hitler and his plan to slaughter all humanity except for Aryans, yes we did. In rebuilding former enemies as well as our allies whose countries were laid waste during the war, yes we did. Were there social injustices we tolerated. Of course. There still are. I’m not of the school that says all that falls short of 100% perfect it 100% wrong.”
Again, I’m not a huge history buff, but I was under the impression that the US were reluctant participants in WWII, and were forced into it out of self defense.
– “We fought for moral reasons.”
@ETpro: “In WWII and in Korea, yes we definitely did.”
Again, my reading on this could be way off, but I don’t recall anyone really having much of a problem with Hitler until the US was under real threat. I’m not sure that qualifies as a moral reason as much as self-defense.
– “We passed laws, struck down laws for moral reasons.”
@ETpro: “Not always, but there is a great deal of truth there. The Civil Rights Act. The Voting Rights Act.’
But are we talking about specific moments that the government was simply dragged into doing something about, or are we talking about the country passing moral laws in general. Also, if we have such laws, can we fault future generations for not crafting those laws again?
– “We waged war on poverty, not poor people.”
@ETpro: “And since Voodoo Economics went into place, the war has been waged against the poor and not against poverty.”
granted
– “We sacrificed.”
@ETpro: “Yes.”
I’m not even sure what this means? Who sacrificed, who sacrifices now, why do people sacrifice, is there less sacrifice now, and what does this even mean?
– “We cared about our neighbors.”
@ETpro: “Most of us actually did.”
I was born in 71, so I have very little to run with here. My tendency to translate this question, however, is how people generally accept or treat people in our community. I would argue that we’re more accepting of and respectful of our neighbors now. Whether you look at race, gender, sexual orientation, etc.
– “We put our money where our mouths were.”
@ETpro: “Yes, to a large degree we did.”
Not sure how to interpret this.
– “And we never beat our chest.”
@ETpro: “OK, on this, I don’t know of any time in US history when it was true.”
– “We built great big things.”
@ETpro: “The Interstate highway system. The Modern Air Traffic Control System. NASA. Landing a man on the moon… Definitely YES!”
Again, I could be way off, but I think that since we do build upon previous advancements, it isn’t quite fair to say that we didn’t build an interstate highway system since 1980 since we already had one. If I have a house built in 1950, I’m not sure what it would mean to say that we did all of this in 1950, and simply hung new curtains since.
– ”[We] made ungodly technological advancements.”
@ETpro: “See the above. It took decades for things like the personal computer, the Internet, cell phones, satellite communications, GPS and the like to finally emerge, but a great deal of those advances hearkens back to technology developed in the effort to put a man on the moon. After Voodoo Economics, we can’t afford to invest in the future, because that takes up money we need to give to our poor, disadvantaged billionaires.”
Agreed that we gained a ton from the moon effort. And a large part of why we were able to spend all of that public money was because of the threat of the Soviet Union and communism. While I would love to see greater space and technology research funding, I’m not sure I would want to enter another atmosphere which caused the first influx of funds.
– ”[We] explored the universe.”
@ETpro: “As much of it as we could get to.”
We’re still exploring via space telescopes, mars rover, etc. But again, exploring the moon would make little scientific sense since we already did it.
– ”[We] cured diseases.”
@ETpro: “Yes, we’ve even cut our investment in that. Billionaires need welfare, and can’t be asked to pay for a future they won’t live to see.”
I’d love to see more public investment in this, sure.
– “And we cultivated the world’s greatest artists and the world’s greatest economy.”
@ETpro: “But we did build the world’s greatest economy.”
ok
– “We reached for the stars.”
@ETpro: “Yes, we did.”
And I believe we’ve reached further since then.
– ”[We] acted like men.”
@ETpro: “I’d prefer to say humans, but yes.”
I would disagree that this is what he meant, and I would only agree with the “humans” thing simply because what humans do = “like humans”. In that case, I would say that it is – and can’t be – any different today.
– “We inspired to intelligence. We didn’t belittle it. It didn’t make us feel inferior.”
@ETpro: _“True, and it’s patently false now.”
When you say that “we” inspired to intelligence in the past, who are you specifically referring to? Are those the same people who do today? I’m not sure I follow this one.
– “We didn’t identify ourselves by who we voted for in the last election.”
@ETpro: “In comparison to the toxic politics that have ruled since Lee Atwater and Newt Gingrich, this is so abundantly true!”
McCarthyism?
– “And we didn’t scare so easy.”
@ETpro: “Yes. We didn’t cower and pass“Patriot” Acts that America’s real Patriots would have organized to fight.”
McCarthyism?
– “We were able to be all these things and do all these things because we were informed…by great men. Men who were revered.”
@ETpro: “We absolutely did have a better educated, more literate, less gullible electorate then.”
How is this possible? Don’t we have more access to information today than we did at any point during this amazing period? I don’t see any evidence that people had any of these qualities.
– “First step in solving any problem is recognizing there is one.”
@ETpro: _“True!”
– “America is not the greatest country in the world anymore.”
@ETpro: “True!”
The key word here is anymore. The US was the greatest country, or are you arguing that the US was a better country than it is currently?
Composing members:
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