Do you need any more proof that "alternative medicine" is bad, if not evil?

I’m really not sure what alternative medicine has to do with that article? First of all the black rhino has been in danger for many years. Mostly from poachers who want their horns for ivory trade. (As stated in the article). The only other uses would be traditionally witch doctors who have used parts of animals and humans if necessary to heal people. The traditional belief also features the throwing of bones to decide what medicine they will use. The amount of money a person will pay all determines how far a witch doctor will go. Children have been murdered for it.

I certainly would not classify such an ancient tradition on the same level as today’s alternative medicines. Although some ideas would be used I am sure.

@LornaLove Where in that article did you see anything about rhino horns being made of ivory, witch doctors, or throwing bones? The poachers hunt rhino because Chinese herbal medicine teaches that by eating the powdered horn of the rhino, men will inherit the beast’s power and “horniness”. The idiots think it’s a male aphrodisiac. For that foolishness, the animal was hunted to extinction.

You’re right about today’s alternative medicine though. It used to be that alternative medicine followed the highly costly model of actually putting something inside the bottle. It might be nothing more than ground beetle dung, or some arcane berry that grows on a few remote islands and that human hunter-gathers somehow evolved to need in near poisonous dosages even though it was entirely missing in their available diet.

Fortunately, “modern” homeopathy came to the rescue. Turns out that, according to the homeopaths, it isn’t necessary to include ANY of the supposed “active ingredient” in the bottle. Pure water will pick up the active ingredient’s magical powers even when there are no molecules of the “active ingredient” left. The cost savings are enormous, as is the profit margin available to those who can sell this scam. I actually favor it, because it doesn’t require the extinction of further species. We can all pretend pure water is an exact equal to powdered rhino horn.

@ETpro There is a direct link in the middle of the article here

I was answering in response to the alternative medicine theory. I lived in SA for 35 years. I know how bogus their trade is. It is not even remotely classified as ‘alternate’.

No. The category “alternative medicine” covers a lot more than traditional Chinese medicine, so this article cannot on its own prove anything about the larger category. Yoga is alternative medicine, as are diet and exercise. The “alternative” in “alternative medicine,” after all, refers to alternatives to pharmaceuticals (and, sometimes, surgery). While the AMA has tried to force the term to mean “anything without scientific backing,” this is not how the term is used by those who are interested in it. Doctors would be much better off focusing on specific practices—such as homeopathy—rather than trying to attack alternative medicine as a whole.

@LornaLove The only mention of ivory in that link is about elephant ivory. Rhino horns are not made of ivory.

I must have skimmed that article too fast. We westerners use things in nature for medically proven treatments, and we certainly have participated in buying things that have helped lead to animals being on the brink of extinction, or extinct. Conservationists have interveined to help save animals and plants, or business has purposely bred animals to keep populations up because the business is so lucritive. Breeding doesn’t happen easily with wild animals though. I don’t see how Chinese medicine has been much worse than other for profit entities that have screwed around with nature.

<sigh> This question only made me firmly decide that I will never again speak with you about anything even remotely medically related. Calling all alternative medicine evil, based on a few bad things… well, you just showed me you’re the type of doctor that I truly hate.

I have had too many “evils” committed against me by doctors like you, and nothing bad from “alternative medicine.”

And just FYI, homeopathic medicine has no side effects, but “modern medicine” kills people all the time. There’s even a warning of getting cancer or dying, just from a certain medication for arthritis, for fuck’s sake. So don’t try to preach that “alternative” medicine is evil while you practice a medicine that has done a lot of harm.

@WillWorkForChocolate I take issue with you saying homeopathic medicine has no side effects. Are you sure you want to say that? None? Zero? Never? You know that isn’t true, don’t you? I know you too well, and your medical knowledge, to think you really believe that.

@JLeslie Homeopathic medicine has no medicine in it, so unless you react to water or sugar or starch (whatever the transport medium) there would be no side effects.

@JLeslie I take issue with being questioned over a fact that I do know to be true. Homeopathic. Remedies. Have. No. Side. Effects.

Examples- If you take a homeopathic remedy for a kidney infection, it will not cause you to develop a yeast infection like taking antibiotics can. If you take a remedy for a migraine, it will not cause you to vomit like taking Imitrex can. Homeopathic remedies treat your problem without causing other problems.

So yes, I’m absolutely sure that I want to say homeopathic medicine has no side effects. Nada. Zero. Zip. Zilch.

@WillWorkForChocolate Willful genocide and elimination of an entire species purely for profit is evil. If that’s not evil, I don’t know what is.

Willfully pushing harmful medications on people, purely for profit, is evil. Charging people $250 for a five minute visit to tell them they should take an anti-depressant, instead of actually addressing the real issue, is evil. With everything I’ve personally experienced from the medical community, “real” doctors are far more evil than homeopathy, naturopaths, etc…

I’m not saying all alopathic doctors are like that, in fact, I’m sitting in a doctor’s office (one that is trustworthy) right now. This is only the second doctor, in my entire life, that I can call trustworthy. And that’s just sad.

My point is, people in your profession can be truly fucking evil, so don’t you dare try to separate modern medicine from alternative when you talk about atrocities that have been committed.

@WillWorkForChocolate I see you are very upset. I’m sorry about that. I wish I could have harnessed some of that energy to help save the black rhino.

@Rarebear I wonder if the rhino is only extinct in China because I read recently about a contest in which someone will be chosen to shoot and get the head of a black rhino in Africa. Apparently, there they cull the older aggressive males so that the herd can reproduce more successfully.

@Rarebear I was wrong – or the article I based my info on was wrong. Googling it, there are several sources saying the Western Black Rhino is now extinct.

@Rarebear You insist that everything you lump in as “alternative medicine” is quackery and if effective at all, is purely placebo effect. Is that right?

If so, in the 33 years I’ve been involved in alternative medicine, I have had an amazing string of successes, and I’m actually healthier for it! I’ll stick with my “placebo effect” because I’m certain, as are lot of other people I know, that we’re on to something.

As for your reference to blaming the Chinese, I read every article and all links referring to alternative medicine and after multiple clicks I found a blank page from the Shenyi Center of Chinese Medicine: http://helpofchinesemedicine.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=24&products_id=154

So you have failed to make your point except for a very vague reference in a related article.

@snowberry Yeah, it’s truly amazing how an evil placebo cured my nasty brown recluse bite, and how it got rid of my daughter’s roseola, when two rounds of antibiotics had failed to help. Among many, many other instances. I’m sure my cats “healed themselves” via the placebo effect, when I dropped a few remedy pellets in their water… because they’re just that awesome.

@snowberry So you’re okay that the black rhino has been wiped off the face of the Earth forever purely because of the purported medicinal properties of the horn?

I didn’t say that, only that your links don’t provide the evidence you say it does.

Well I’ll just copy paste my answer from a similar question that was asked a few days ago.

Part of alternative medicine are herbs, dieting and vitamins. A herb is any plant with leaves, seeds, or flowers, so I wouldn’t lump in every herb as ineffective. Eating, for example, spinach (a plant) shows pretty clearly that it provides essential nutrients.

I happen to know someone who treated/cured her stage 3 cancer by eating all the essential nutrients in high doses, in raw form, and proportionally (veggies, fruits, grains, nuts, seeds, oils, eggs, seafood, poultry etc.). Dairy products were avoided, accept for fermented milk, like yogurt or kefir coupled with exercised and weight loss. Similarly, she recommended this to someone she knew with stage 2 cancer, and it worked out for her as well.

A diabetic I knew in college had never taken a shot of insulin because she dieted properly, exercised, maintained healthy weight.

Some herbs work, some don’t. Depends on what, where, who and how it is used. For example, Aloe vera can cause some adverse effects when taken internally, but works well for external use (skin).

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/episodes/rhinoceros/rhino-horn-use-fact-vs-fiction/1178/

“Far more pervasive, however, is their use in the traditional medicine systems of many Asian countries, from Malaysia and South Korea to India and China, to cure a variety of ailments. In Traditional Chinese Medicine, the horn, which is shaved or ground into a powder and dissolved in boiling water, is used to treat fever, rheumatism, gout, and other disorders. According to the 16th century Chinese pharmacist Li Shi Chen, the horn could also cure snakebites, hallucinations, typhoid, headaches, carbuncles, vomiting, food poisoning, and “devil possession.” (However, it is not, as commonly believed, prescribed as an aphrodisiac).”

Thank you @Rarebear.

As I mentioned, I know nothing of Chinese medicine. It might or might not be effective. However rather than blame the Chinese, I’d blame the poachers who are killing them, as one of the articles mentioned. Their tactic is to make them extinct so as to drive the prices up. If the Chinese were smart, they’d breed them captively and harvest the horns without killing them.

It is a shame, and I do agree with you on that.

Sure. You can blame the poachers, but why are their poachers? Because there is a market. You need to look at the root causes.

That’s not the only reason they sell it. Read your links, @Rarebear . They also sell it in Yemen (and probably other places) to make their fancy knives. There is a real demand, that’s for sure.

The only way you’re going to outsmart the poachers is to drive the price down. As I recall alligators were hunted until there was concern they’d be extinct (I have luggage from that era). Then folks started up alligator farms which took the pressure off of the wild population. Now their numbers are burgeoning to the point that people are hunting them in the wild, for profit. Poaching isn’t so profitable now. Sorry, I’m not providing a link for you, but that’s the gist of it as I recall.

I read my link. I never post something without reading it first. Yes, there are other “uses” for the horn of this poor extinct beautiful mammal. But the biggest driver of the market was the alternative medicine trade.

@WillWorkForChocolate Reading this thread, I realized I had little idea of the actual definition of homeopathic medicine, so I looked it up on Wiki. The article makes it sound super shady. Is this the thing you are talking about?

Re: alternative medicine in general being bad…ok. I think we can all agree that it’s always better to base conclusions on evidence gathered using the scientific method. This excludes all forms of alternative medicine by definition. However, I don’t think this means that all forms of alternative medicine are bad, but rather that some of them are bad and others have simply not been tested yet, or tested thoroughly enough. And I don’t think the extinction of the black rhino, as infuriatingly stupid as it was, alters this.

@wildpotato Yes, that’s what she is talking about. But homeopathy in of itself is harmless. She is correct in that it has no side effects as it’s just water. The only harm of homeopathy is if you take it and a) you can’t afford it or b) you are taking it in lieu of something that has a clinical effect (say chemotherapy).

Homeopathy is different than traditional Chinese medicine. TCM has actual material harvested often illegally from animal parts. In this case it contributed to the extinction of a species.

wrong wrong wrong. Far be it for me to dance on anyone’s placebo parade, but the rhino thing has me utterly gutted. If someone wants to be tricked, or trick themselves back to health, GREAT! Do it, but don’t fucking kill animals!

I see it as no more evil than “conventional” medicine. Consider what “conventional” medicine does to humans. Does the fact that Homo Sapiens still exist make it okay? Look at those who have been tortured, maimed, impoverished, and otherwise ruined before you answer. Inflicting suffering can be worse than killing.

Agree as well @jerv

@jerv. Appendectomies.

@Rarebear Explain that non sequitur. Are you saying that because of appendectomies,conventional medicine is completely innocent and blameless?

No. But I am saying that if I could somehow be a large animal veterinarian and do surgery on a black rhino I couldn’t because the alternative medicine industry murdered them all.

… and that is worse than crippling somebody with an unnecessary medical procedure done solely for profit. Gotcha.

Certainly worse than saving the life of my best friend who was dying of B cell lymphoma.

So @jerv are you okay with a species being wiped out for a placebo?

Oh my goodness. You are silly @Rarebear.

Not silly. Dead serious.

@Rarebear I’m more okay with it than I am with price-gouging and with medications that have more/worse side effects than the ailment they’re treating. I’m definitely more okay with it than what “accepted medical science” used to do; the same people who once denounced germ theory, preferring to believe in humors and homonoculi.

It’s going to happen, it IS happening, whether I approve of it or not. And the loss of the black rhino is only a drop in the bucket of what else is happening all over the world. And as I mentioned before, I don’t approve of what the Chinese are doing, but I have NO problem with alternative medicine or homeopathy overall.

@jerv is spot on.

@Rarebear Be aware you are posting on a forum mainly visited by Americans. Today, in 2013, 50% of Americans believe the Sun orbits the Earth, because that’s how it looks to them.

* sigh * For the record, I think the earth revolves around the sun (but I’m not sure that @ETpro or Rarebear do).

@ETpro But most of that 50% wouldn’t be caught dead here. No porn, no LOLcats, and a high risk of intelligent conversation. Fluther is unlike ‘Murica in that respect.

@jerv True that. :-)

@snowberry I’d say believing homeopathy’s claim that pure water with not a single molecule of the supposed active ingredient left in it somehow magically acquired the curative powers of the original putted “active” ingredient is on a plain with thinking the Sun orbits the Earth.

@ETpro I put that one about on par with dissing all alternative medicine just because a couple of the many different subsets of it are quackery.

I think maybe we can all agree it is all bad, instead of trying to say one is worse than the other, can’t we? It’s horrible a whole species is extinct, seemingly from human beings killing off the animals, and it is horrible when western medicine does procedures that are unnecessary and overprescribes, etc. I think if @Rarebear would be willing to say medicine in America does sometimes leave patients worse off than where they began, some doctors do abuse the system for money, then maybe we all would not be so upset. If he were not a doctor and if he had not worded the Q as he did, probably the Q would have taken a different tone of how awful it is for a medicine to contribute to the extinction of the black rhino.

I think the idealism on either side, alternative or western medicine, is what is so frustrating. Sometimes alternative medicines work. If they do, eventually they get tested and are no longer alternative. If big pharma can’t make a lot of money from it, it might not get tested so fast though. It’s one of the glitches in the system. Some alternative methods are completely ineffective, and people are spending money on nothing. If they are avoiding a proven cure it might be detremental to their health or lead to death, depending on their illness.

No matter what, whether the rhino was supplying effective medicine or ineffective medicine, we don’t want them to no longer exist on earth. The extinction of any animal at the hands of humans for any reason is very sad.

I have science. The science is that a species is dead because of the alternative medicine trade. Period. And that is the point of this question. The arguments that that’s somehow lessened because science based medicine isn’t perfect is reprehensible to me.

A beautiful animal is gone. For nothing.

@JLeslie is right.

What you want to hear @Rarebear is that you’re right. That everyone here agrees with you 100%, with no qualifications. Got it.

If alternative medicine works, it’s not called alternative anymore.

Okay, so the black rhino is now extinct. It is sad. But other species are also extinct and we manage just fine without them. But let’s stop pretending that the purpose of this question was to truly express disappointment over losing the black rhino. No, your agenda is clear here- to use this as another excuse to bad mouth something you feel threatened by.

Make no mistake, I’m not a blithering idiot and I’m well aware that more and more people are using “alternative” medicines, which takes money away from doctors and big pharma. You may think I’m a sheep for believing homeopathy works, but the fact remains that it does work much of the time. People who break away from the norm and try something different are not the sheep. People who stick to the “norm”, simply because it’s considered the norm, and laugh at those who say other methods work, are the real sheep. More people these days are trying “alternative” means of health and wellness, which threatens you and other doctors like you, who choose to hide behind that paper on your wall, and poopoo natural medicine and make fun of it.

My homeopath has multiple state licenses on her wall too, including her RN. She’s as far from a quack as you can get. Instead of impatiently listening to her patients for five minutes, then prescribing a bandaid pill of some kind, she truly listens (often for one or two hours per client), takes every possible symptom into account, and attempts to actually get to the root of the problem, instead of just suppressing the symptoms and causing the problem to manifest in other ways.

And FYI, just because other species regularly tortured in the name of science aren’t extinct, it doesn’t change the fact that they are tortured, maimed, and killed by “modern” medicine.

So don’t pretend outrage over the black rhino extinction, when the medical community has been directly responsible for the torture and death of millions of animals. Have the balls to flat out admit that you loathe alternative medicine and will use everything at your disposal to “prove” that it’s bad, instead of acting like the extinction of an animal actually causes you grief.

@WillWorkForChocolate I’m not pretending outrage. I am outraged.

Right, okay, don’t let the facade slip. Good job. If you want to keep the act up, direct some of that outrage toward your own people for constant animal abuse. Naw, we won’t see posts from you bemoaning the atrocities of “modern” medicine. You’ll just bitch about it if it involves “alternative” medicine, (which isn’t even alternative since it was in use thousands of years before modern medicine really began to develop.)

No one ever seems to believe that I read people and their intentions just as easily as others read books.

@WillWorkForChocolate Ancient Wisdom Fallacy You may not care about genetic diversity and species survival. I do.

LMAO, whatever.

@Rarebear I respect your outrage at the loss of a species. What if it were extinct for something? Don’t we want to protect the animal either way?

I am pretty sure that was the rhino they were trying to breed in a special wildlife pace I went to north of san diego. There were 6 left, two females. The females failed to get pregnant when I was there. If it isn’t the same type of rhino, then another one is also at great risk of becoming extinct.

@JLeslie Yes. It’s really tragic. Even if it were extinct for something (let’s say that it was an effective medication) I’d be outraged as well. But I’m even more upset that it was for something that doesn’t work.

@Rarebear I wonder why more wasn’t done sooner? I partly blame the countries the rhino lived in. They didn’t give a shit I guess. Maybe I am being too critical? If the country is full of wide open spaces, forests and jungles, I guess that is difficult to police.

@JLeslie The black rhino was a plain species. Like with the elephants, multiple attempts were made to protect them. But poachers and corruption fueled by money contributed from the Chinese medicine industry did them in.

It is outrageous. For whatever reason it made me think of how in parts of Africa they chop off the limbs, especially the arms of albino people, because they believe the blood and skin has healing powers and brings luck. I have to agree with you that the bits of “voo doo” around the world that harms God’s creatures, including human beings, is very upsetting.

@Rarebear lookie here: http://news.cornell.edu/stories/1999/04/toxic-pollen-bt-corn-can-kill-monarch-butterflies
And here: http://grist.org/list/study-gmo-crops-are-killing-butterflies/
My point? Corruption by way of GMO corn is wiping out the monarch butterfly. It’s not gone yet, but it’s certainly on its way. Why aren’t you concerned about that? Oh, right. GMO plants are “safe” for the environment.

Your agenda is showing, again.

Actually Snow, I was not aware of this until you posted it. Thank you for showing it to me. I am away at a conference now and on my iPhone, but I will read it carefully and do some research.

@Rarebear This is not “new” news. It’s been around for a while (1999)! It’s what many would consider “common knowledge”.

Now I see the date, as I said I’m on an iPhone. Since that was 14 years ago I can see if the finding has been validated.

I think you are conflating two things to make your point. It is tragic that the black rhino has become extinct for specious quasi-medical reasons; it is tragic that alligators are endangered for the manufacture of alligator shoes. It is tragic that we are destroying the rain forests for agricultural development and thus destroying the habitat of numerous species. But that does not, ipso facto, invalidate all alternative medicine. Some alternative medical practices such as acupuncture have been seen to be effective. There is a great deal to herbology as well. These practices have to be judged on a case by case, evidenced based assessment.

I understand your outrage but I think you are arguing from the specific to the very general and thus weakening your point.

Ah. Acupuncture. No, acupuncture is no better than sham acupuncture. Sorry. There are an increased incidence of necrotizing skin infections from poor infection control, however.

But that is out of the scope of this question.

@Rarebear If that is beyond the scope, then you’re just trolling. This isn’t about alternative medicine; it’s about saving species. You don’t care about medicine,only animals. Basically, this thread was started by a lie, and continued under false pretenses.

@jerv I think he doesn’t care about animals, only medicine, but I also think his mind is closed so I am out.

@jerv He doesn’t care about the animal at all, he just used it to bash alternative medicine and is likely pissed that not everyone is agreeing with him. He’s been trying to discredit alternative medicine and homeopathy for years now. Since before we came to Fluther.

His mind is closed. We’ve known that for a long time. I keep posting because I don’t want people to think that his opinion is the only viable one out there, and just because you have “science” you’re right. Just this week “science” discovered a new part to the knee! Who knew? LOL http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/06/new-ligament-human-knee-anterolateral_n_4221043.html And science knew just about everything it ever could about the human body before this week.

@jerv Why are you call me a troll? This is my own question, and you’re the one commenting on it. It seems to me that you’re the one calling me names, so actually it’s you who is doing the trolling. I’m sorry you don’t like what I’m writing, though.

@willworkforchocolate I’m not pissed at anybody. It seems to me that you’re the one who is angry here. If you don’t like what I write, ignore me.

@snowberry Really? Whose mind is really closed here? I’m always open to new data. After all, I did take some time and I did some research on your monarch butterfly issue. Fortunately, it turns out the risk is negligible.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12047949
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11559842

Meanwhile, the rhinos are still dead, mostly because of the illegal Chinese medicine trade.

This argument reminds me a bit of the argument about sex slavery. We could blame the women. We could blame the pimps. We could outlaw pornography that feeds desire. Or we could blame the men who create the demand. You know what? We all are to blame, because we allow it. Every one of us allows it. Personally I think it’s deplorable, but I have noticed that there are an awful lot of folks right here on Fluther who support the sex industry in one form or another. I’d love to put a stop to it, but I can’t.

The destruction of the rhinos is a bit like that. Aside from using rhino horns to make fancy knives, blaming one part of the problem, especially when it’s part of a widespread culture on the other side of the world is not going to do a bit of good. I’d love to put a stop to it, but I can’t.

And come to think of it, I think there’s a link between the sex industry and the loss of the black rhino because they think that rhino horn enhances sexual performance. Do the search yourself.

So maybe we should attack the sex industry instead of- or in addition to- the people who are destroying these animals. But we’re doing nothing about it by arguing on Fluther.

Agreed. But we are making people more aware.

@Rarebear Have you made a stand against the sex industry? If so, where and in what way? Do you offer free health check ups for women who’ve escaped? Support it monetarily? What?

I’ve supported such efforts in the past monetarily, and in the future I’m planning to offer educational services to such women in need (right now I’m a bit busy).

@snowberry. No not yet. Would you like to make a stand together?

@Rarebear I like answering questions. I came here thinking this was a question, not a soapbox.

Just as a total aside to everything I am sitting in a medical conference and I am seeing good evidence for probiotics for the prevention of c. Diff infection. See, that’s evidence. And I will use it

@jerv Well you’re the one who called me a troll on my own question.

Yaay, for probiotics (I knew this already) and yaay for having people stand together against the exploitation of women and children! Come one, come all!

@Rarebear Is there anyway to test if a person has low numbers of the good bacterias in the digestive tract?

@jleslie not that I know of and frankly I don’t know what the clinical usefulness of that would be anyway.

@Rarebear Is that because you think you can never have too much of the good ones? I ask because if we are talking about preventative, we are adding bacterias to possibly a place where there are already sufficient numbers of bacterias.

@JLeslie I know this much: There needs to be a balance between all the good bacteria and good yeasts. I took a form of “good” yeast as well as probiotics when I had to take an antibiotic to kill a parasite I had.

Snow, what parasite did you have?

My question goes to the root of the mechanism of acupuncture. Each type uses different points and different meridians. Which one is the correct one? Or are the fall right? And if so, how does it work?

@Rarebear That will teach you! Writing responses on your iphone, honestly! Wrong question.

Eh, it was some sort of bacteria. I can’t remember the name, but the antibiotic I took for it was horrible. It made me unsteady on my feet, and I generally felt nasty. I didn’t leave the house during the course of antibiotics.

@snowberry Honestly! I think a lot of the yeast information out there is bullshit. I absolutely believe people have problems with yeast, but I think for the most part most people don’t my doctors wanted me to have a yeast problem so bad. I find it shocking the “natural” group accuses doctors of not buying into it when my MD’s were the ones constantly giving me yeast medicine when nothing was seen under microscope nor in cultures. I’m talking vaginal; I realize you are talking digestive tract. Anyway, all a waste of time and many pills taken and salves and intravaginal meds used. For nothing. No positive results.

I take probiotics now when I take antibiotics and I think they help. I never did when I was younger, but I do now only when I take very large doses of penicillin. I do actually get a vaginal yeast infection with the huge doses of penicillin. I am not usually symptomatic though. Penicillin (one particular drug only, not all penicillin, I wish there were others that worked) makes me feel so much better that maybe yeast symptoms are nothing in comparison if I have any.

I tried probiotic for a few months many years ago to see if they would help me in general and I saw no difference. But, I was not taking them for C. dificile prevention.

@JLeslie I’m not sure if you’re talking about probiotics or about anti-fungal medication, or both.

@snowberry I guess I didn’t write that paragraph very well. Overall it doesn’t matter. I have tried both. The point was I didn’t have yeast problems andbthat is why nothing that treats yeast worked. Medical doctors wanted it to be yeast, or they felt obligated to treat something maybe. I hear doctors say they prescribe so the patient feels like something is being done? Or, maybe they just had that as their best guess even though science showed them it wasn’t the case? I have no idea what all those doctors were thinking. I was young and went along. When I finally hit on the antibiotic that was like a magic pill I was able to show it could not be yeast, because that antibiotic makes yeast grow, not the opposite.

There have been some good studies on probiotics and their ability for the elderly to recover from digestive problems after taking antibiotics. https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2008/188/5/probiotics-sorting-evidence-myths

There are also studies being done on the benefits of consuming faecal matter for essentially the same issues of ‘resetting’ the stomach and intestinal flora.

So, my point is, the only way I will swallow shit is if there is proper scientific proof behind it. Otherwise, keep your magic memory water to yourself.

Just in case people think @cazzie is full of shit,
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/10/131004105253.htm

@cazzie Are you addressing me? I am not doubt probiotics can help certain ailments.

@JLeslie no, I was just commenting in general.