Is there anything you would like to ask another jelly?

I want to know if someone who asks questions that have been posted elsewhere on the net is a bot or what their story is.

I have burning questions for a few specific jellies, but I’d be modded if I asked them here.

No

No. But you folks can ask away.

Which do you prefer? To give pain, or to receive it?

I think I am currently dreaming. What does this dream mean?

No, that’s what PM is for

@YARNLADY But surely, the purpose of Fluther is for jellies to be able to ask questions of other jellies.

Or at least it was… until I asked this question.

@ragingloli
False alternative
@tom_g
Nothing. As you know.

What’s your favourite cocktail that follows the alphabet!

Appletini
Bacardi and coke
Cosmopolitan…

Go!

Can you prove that miniature giant space hamsters don’t exist?

@Darth_Algar How dare you question my belief in paradoxical space rodents!

[mod says] This question was asked in relation to a discussion going on here, so I’m answering in both places.

The issue wasn’t that any particular kind of question was a duplicate per se, but that some questions have a recurring pattern. Certain specific questions seem to be used as a vehicle to proselytize – either for a religion or for atheism – rather than in an effort to actually understand/learn something. Since Fluther isn’t an appropriate place for proselytizing, that kind of question will be redirected to the existing “Ask a theist” or “Ask an atheist” threads.

I hope this clears up any confusion about the matter, and that everyone will still feel free to ask any genuine question you have.

P.S. I’m at my other job right now, so may be slow to reply.

I’m so glad the moderation staff has the time and energy to put into asking the Neptune Ouija Board what the intent of each question’s asker is, in order to accurately determine which questions are “genuine” and which are “proselytizing”, and I feel comforted knowing that they will be taking the burden off of those whose life is thoroughly inconvenienced by the inability to simply scroll past questions they are not interested in discussing.

@augustlan But what it boils down to is that every question on religion is now a duplicate of one of those question. This, in my view, constitutes censorship.

To illustrate my point, is there any question on the subject of religion that would pass the test of not being a duplicate of one of those questions? If so, what question might that be?

@Seek_Kolinahr

Re-read. I was not questioning the belief, I was questioning the lack of belief.

@Darth_Algar – flag on the play. We have already discussed “belief” before. How about asking something like, “Do you like donuts?”?

@tom_g

Seriously? Jesus…..

(And come on, at least get my name right.)

Does your bubblegum lose it’s flavor on the bedpost over night?

http://www.fluther.com/31644/does-chewing-gum-lose-its-flavour/

The issue is not whether or not it’s a duplicate, it’s about an obvious pattern of pushing an agenda, and it’s not just religion questions that have this problem. Anything that is essentially propaganda shouldn’t be on Fluther, and we need to do a better job of catching ALL questions of that type. If you have a genuine question about religion or politics or what-have-you, ask away! If you see something that shouldn’t be here, flag away.

Are chewing gum and bubblegum the same thing?

But one person’s genuine question is another person’s “pushing an agenda”.

@augustlan I don’t think asking for a definition of faith is pushing an agenda. It’s a word that often gets conflated with hope, belief, certainty and many other things. I think it’s as genuine a question as can be asked in a religious vein.

@Darth_Algar “But one person’s genuine question is another person’s “pushing an agenda”.”

Precisely. What I am understanding from this is that anyone can ask a religious question, as long as it isn’t @ETpro. After all, if I ask it, I must really want the answer. If he asks it – he must be “pushing his agenda”. It is a blatant double standard.

@Seek_Kolinahr D Devil’s Handshake

Yes. Will you bake me cookies?

Again, this wasn’t about just one question, but about a clear pattern over many, many questions. It also wasn’t about one member.

So… you won’t bake me cookies??

Cookies. Yes!

@augustlan: Oh, thank heavens. I’ll bring the milk.

Does anyone want to go on a cyber-date?

Perhaps
That was in response to the original question. A terrible juxtaposition on my part.

@augustlan I would love to see who’s on that hit list. After all, if agendas and patterns are not allowed among question-askers, I would expect never again to see:

Politically-motivated questions on global warming
“Fashion” questions that serve only as a platform from which serve only to degrade female anatomy
Family/pet photo galleries disguised as questions about human behaviour
Health questions as platforms to show off the knowledge of the asker
Any questions that read essentially “How could Republicans/Democrats possibly do this thing?” (especially true during an election campaign)
Personality quizzes that end with flowery, yet strangely empty thank you messages for the respondants.
Questions that imply that America is a nation of imbeciles and/or murderers
Questions asking why gun control hasn’t been implemented in America yet

But we see these all the time, from the same people, over and over. So the line is not being drawn where you say it is being drawn. Every single person who posts here with some regularity has a pattern to their questioning. Don’t think so? Did you recognize anyone on that list from just the pattern?

Each of us has at least one specific jelly whose questions make us cringe (that’s not my list above – I picked examples from all sides).

Specific questions are being pulled solely because they concern religion. That decision should be made transparent.

Furthermore, there is a difference between proselytizing and asking a question. Fluther should know the difference, if anyone should. I support the jellies on both side of the theism/atheism divide who have been asking questions on this topic. Sometimes, the answers do veer into the realm of proselytizing – and perhaps those should be modded – but the questions themselves are not. If Fluther doesn’t also support these jellies, I don’t know why any of us is still here.

Here’s my question:

Do you think this website belongs to you? Do you somehow feel that it’s appropriate to pick a fight with and / or second-guess the mods?

Fluther’s mods have better things to do than respond to accusations of ‘unfairness’ or what have you. As far as I know they don’t get paid. The rules aren’t what you decide they are, they are what the owners of the site decide they are, and they are those that the mods and admins enforce. If you don’t like it, that’s too bad. You can deal with it, you can go get your own damn website (for free, even) or you can go cry.

@rexacoracofalipitorius Or I can ask questions and express my opinion about it. Without crying.

@glacial I understand where you’re coming from, and many of the types of questions you talk about are a problem, too. We have cracked down on them in the past, but not so much recently (and not on religion questions, either, until today). I have a new full-time job and Fluther gets slammed with spam every single day. Given that, we’re doing our level best.

As for the difference between proselytizing and asking a question, I think we do know the difference. We would sincerely appreciate a little trust from the community.

@rexacoracofalipitorius Thanks for the support, but I don’t think that’s the way to go about it.

Is there anything you would like to ask another jelly?

Where’s the love and support for Hypocrisy_Central’s freedom of speech.

@augustlan: “As for the difference between proselytizing and asking a question, I think we do know the difference.”

I disagree. I have seen simple unanswered questions get called an attack or proselytizing. I understand you are likely getting slammed with requests to over-moderate, but I think you might want to consider that an innocent question can come across to some as something else to those who have been afforded the ability to simply not answer such questions – or not even think about them.

Remember, these questions are not required to be answered.

Anyway, I do not know the difference.

H_C’s freedom has not been impinged. Ever.

@rexacoracofalipitorius

A forum such as this is a community, is it not? It there cannot be a dialog, questions and answers, exchanged between the users of the site and those in charge of policing the site then it becomes less a community and more a dictatorship. I have been a member of forums where this was the case. They tend to die very quickly once that happens.

I would like to ask all jellies to take care of yourselves and wish everyone a great new year! I realize everyone has an addenda and that’s part of being an adult with a mind. I think everyone here has valuable insight on a multitude of issues and I will resolve to be more diplomatic about mine. Have a wonderful day all!

I agree that my response was a bit salty, and if the mods decide to remove it I’ll not complain.

I get irritated with people who complain at the efforts of volunteers providing them with a service. The moderators may not be perfect- or rather, you might not like what the mods are doing- but I assure you that your Fluther experience is better for the work they do. As such, I suggest that they deserve the benefit of the doubt, and not to be publicly taken to task.

@Darth_Algar a community is not necessarily egalitarian. Not all users of Fluther are equal, whether anyone likes it or not. It is not within my power to moderate posts, for example. The ones who have that power have been given it by others who have even broader powers which I lack (except on my own site, where my powers are ABSOLUTE. Mwa ha ha!)

So I can understand the concern about some folks’ perception regarding the use of that power. I’m just saying: please don’t blame the mods. Don’t blame anybody for that matter.

@tom_g :: The way the site works it makes it hard to just ignore. If there was a “Religion” section that would be great and I would never visit it. With the linear structure of the site it can easily be flooded with religious garbage (this comes from both sides) and it drowns out the good stuff that hasn’t been rehashed 1,000 fucking times before.

@johnpowell – Am I safe to assume that we have seen the last of questions about healthcare/Obamacare, global climate change, how to deal with poverty, capital punishment, and ethics?

@hey_now “Where’s the love and support for Hypocrisy_Central’s freedom of speech.”

I expressed support for that jelly a few posts above yours. I would not be surprised if he was the “others” mentioned here. I don’t think questions from either member should be removed just because they are about religion and some people are tired of seeing questions about religion.

@tom_g :: Different beasts. They aren’t nearly as frequent as Religious stuff. And with that stuff you can generally back up your claims with facts so the arguments might actually teach something. The religious stuff just makes us all hate each other and barely ever is something accomplished.

@johnpowell: “And with that stuff you can generally back up your claims with facts”

:)

@tom_g A member perceiving something as an attack or proselytizing clearly doesn’t make it so. Of course we know that. We get way more flags than we actually act on, and always have.

We are using our judgment, as a team, to make these calls. We also have the benefit of seeing everything we’ve modded that is related, while members do not. We’ve been discussing this for over a week before we acted. And again, this should apply to ALL members, on all topics. We will do our best.

I don’t know how to convince everyone that we can be counted on to make these decisions, but I’m going to try to show things to you from our perspective. Since we generally don’t discuss specific instances of moderation publicly, I’m going to give some fictitious examples here. See if you all can tell the difference.
—————————————————————————————————————————————————————-

Question title: What is your definition of “marriage”?

Details: Is your definition of marriage “one man/one woman”, or do you have a different view? What led you to your viewpoint?

Tags: marriage, human nature

Participation from the OP: Focused on learning, civil discussion, no inflammatory language.

———————————————————————-
Question title: What is your definition of “marriage”?

Details: Is your definition of marriage “one man/one woman”, or do you have a different view? Things have been so twisted by the liberals, it’s hard to pinpoint the definition these days.

Tags: good values, decency, gross

Participation from the OP: Focused on showing the inferiority of her opposition, uses inflammatory language.

Additional circumstances: The OP has asked 20+ questions on this general topic, all with the same goal.
——————————————————————-

Is there anything you would like to ask another jelly?

What have you done today to make life a little easier for someone else?

@augustlan I totally get what you’re on about and I can dig it. The bottom line is, this isn’t a democracy, it’s a business. Keeping civility in check is in the best interests of the site. It’s probably a good business decision. Although, I’ve enjoyed the banter for good and for bad as it helps me to understand the minds of others. I think more diplomacy and better wording is necessary sometimes. I’m not very good at that… :)

@hey_now I made a shell script that allows a person to encrypt arbitrary text selections in xorg- in other words, a Linux user writing an email in their web browser (like with gmail or hotmail or whatever) can select the text, run this little program, and paste in an encrypted version of the text. This makes it so that people can use public-key encryption (specifically, Gnu Privacy Guard with webmail without having to install a special plugin (which doesn’t even exist for Firefox, and may become another project of mine later). It’s not done yet, but it should help a lot of people when it is.

Also, I did the dishes and took out the garbage.

All I wanna know is if anyone knows who can teach me how to wield a katana.

@Symbeline
Realistically or fantastically?
If the latter, play Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance

Actually I’d like to learn that for real. Not for fighting, just to stay and shape while bragging about learning something cool lol. but is that Raiden in your video? Not familiar with the series much, looks like him though

It is. Full on cyborg ninja.

So what, he gets his own game? That’s sweet, I always liked that character. But I still like Psycho Mantis better, cuz back when I first played the first game he says in the TV; soo…you like Silent Hill, do you? scared the fuck out of me I know today the game read the memory card, but back then I was scoobied.

What @DWW25921 said. Fluther is not a democracy. The mods and especially @augustlan who works for the owner(s) have a right to make and enforce rules and standards as they see fit. Fluther is a community (and a great community, at that) but people seem to forget that it’s not like any of us really can come on here and make demands about how we want things. People might not like that I said that, but it’s true.

I quit having my period in 1995. Does this mean I could be pregnant?

@Dutchess_III LOL! (I really did) That’s the difference between fluther and Yahoo Answers…

:D

Grape, do you resent that Strawberry is so much more popular?

Is tartar sauce plaid?

Does tarter sauce make you retarded? My son had some concerns about that when he was 5.

I have to say that I’m pretty disappointed. I personally learned a lot, got mad some, calmed down, thought some more, about a lot of those conversations. Sure they devolve, but so did this one, so do many.

I’m disappointed too, @KNOWITALL. I have made many friends here, you being one of them. I’ll continue to participate in threads I’m active in, but I’m done asking questions here. @jca is perfectly right Fluther can set whatever limits they wish on question content. I can also decide whether those limits are acceptable, or too confining to make participation here worth my time. To me, it’s the later. I’m active on Quora under the user name, James Hollomon.

@augustlan, FWIW, I’ve never liked changes that imposed limits on discussion. As a former all-star ax grinder, I have to say that this is a better place than most to turn ax heads into dust. It may take a few years and a hundred questions, but it happens inevitably, and it probably happens faster here than it does IRL. Thanks, regardless for your efforts.

@Etpro I never felt anyone was trying to change my beliefs either, for the record.

Atheist or theist, I’ve never actually met anyone on the internartz, ever, who tried to change someone’s beliefs. Not ever. People insult each other and bash one another’s beliefs, perhaps in some secret way they’re trying to convince someone to change their beliefs…but I’ve never actually seen it directly done.
But I did have a friend who was into the Islam religion, and was more or less trying to convince me that it was the right one, although she never insisted any more than that. :/

@Symbeline: Good answer. That’s why I don’t get why people even try to “push their agendas” regarding religion. Nobody is changing my mind, I’m not changing anybody’s mind, yet everyone’s fighting about it and getting nasty. That’s why I avoid religious questions like th plague now, on here.

@Symbeline Besides having legitimate questions or confusion to clear up, I think there is some kind of one-upmanship going on at times, but that’s pretty typical.

I could be wrong, for all I know, you could be right. <singing>

@KNOWITALL You are a minority on here though, since I’m pretty sure the majority of Fluther are atheists. You’re pretty awesome for that, and I’ve never seen you be an asshole about it, ever. Thing is I see your point about the one upmanship, seeing religion isn’t the only topic here that gets said treatment. (granted, it gets the most of it, but I’ve had my person attacked and insulted here for liking horror movies, so…)

@jca Eh, yeah. I sometimes venture into them, but for the most part, I’d rather stay out. I most certainly do not, in any way, claim that I’ve learned all I need to learn, far from it. But as far as Fluther and religion goes, it seems I’ve seen it all lol. (and what I haven’t seen probably amounts to much of the same, anyway)

I would like to ask some Flutheronians some questions but since it may apply to them all, there could be dozens of dozens here. I would ask would you suffer, hours, days, weeks, months or years, if death was inevitable and not of old age, such as wasting away from terminal cancer or some other debilitating chronic disease where suffering was not going to be avoided, trapped in a mine, structure on fire with no escape or rescue. Death will come in hours or years, it will not be peaceful and you will suffer, even if for a short time, if you had the means to take yourself out quickly and hopefully painlessly, would you, and if not, why hang around suffering when it will not change anything?

@Hypocrisy_Central I know Fluther can be a bitch sometimes, but surely not as bad as the scenario you’re using here for comparison, no?

@Symbeline I’ve been a jerk a few times, but hopefully I apologized quickly thereafter (just this nasty temper that doesn’t always allow me to shut my mouth before reacting- lol.)

@Hypocrisy_Central Yes, I’d take myself out somehow rather than suffer years of endless pain and hope that God understands.

I think one problem occurs when people misjudge “making the opponent leave the thread” as being a form of victory. Real victory in debate should be when you actually convince other people (like outside observers) that your viewpoint is correct.

It’s easy to get your opponent to give up, simply be stubborn or derisive enough. Such tactics can give the appearance of success, but the underlying arguments aren’t going to be convincing to an outside observer. Writing a convincing argument is much harder.

Once upon a time, I was in a math debate with another jelly. I can’t exactly remember the details, but my viewpoint was something like “there is no winning strategy for roulette.” I couldn’t manage to convince him, so eventually I quit and walked away. That, however, shouldn’t be construed as me losing the debate and being incorrect. Rather, victory should be determined by everything in between. Hopefully, outside observers will see my evidence and be convinced that roulette is always a losing game in the long run. In that sense, I feel like I did the best job in that debate.

Okay, so that was my story. May not be 100% relevant, since most debates aren’t about math.

[mod says] Just an update, we are trying to work on a solution which would solve several problems, but which also should prevent us from closing any new debate threads as duplicates. Details to be announced. Have patience.

@PhiNotPi Really good point that I hope people focus on- “It’s easy to get your opponent to give up, simply be stubborn or derisive enough. Such tactics can give the appearance of success, but the underlying arguments aren’t going to be convincing to an outside observer. Writing a convincing argument is much harder.”

Sometimes these controversial threads are just people arguing, no one is convincing anyone of anything but neither is willing to just stop either because they both think they’re right. Unfortunately that’s a human condition I’d think…lol, but really good point.

Well, after two weeks or so, I think the decimation of many of our more intelligent contributors on this site makes it obvious that the relegation all questions concerning religion or atheism to one of two threads specified by the mods was a piss-poor decision; a tactic more charactaristic of a venue rigidly controlled by fearful autocrats rather than an open forum created by people raised under strong democratic traditions.

It wasn’t so much what these members contributed to questions of religion or atheism that made this forum interesting—such small beer that was to most of us—it was the intelligence and art with which they informed all of their questions and responses on all the threads they contributed to.

Now it seems, with very few exceptions, we are reduced to a level of content more appropriate to ages 14 years and below rather than 14 years and above. It may be too late to attract many of these contributors back as many have now found climes warmer to thier discussions, but this rule should be rescinded immediately on principal and a prominent notice stating the same—otherwise we can expect this site’s demise as an adult forum.

What a terrible mistake this was.

@Espiritus_Corvus I completely disagree. Anyone is now free to pose a religious question and answer without fear of personal attack, that’s a good thing.

The fact that no one is choosing to pose those questions any longer shows that people here in general seem to be copacetic with their personal choices and don’t feel the need to push an agenda on other jellies. Either that or perhaps it’s all been said, and it got really heavy a few too many times.

If the lack of intelligent discourse or adult questions is the problem, feel free to pose them, and I’m sure people will be happy to answer to the best of their abilities. Frankly, I think the positive energy is great.

I would like to ask why does it seem there are so many Flutheronians with thin skin around here?

I think it’s because as soon as someone is offended by something, they think that makes them right about whatever they were saying lol.

@KNOWITALL Think about what you are saying. You are simply showing fear that your faith cannot stand up to these people’s arguments. If you were confident in your beliefs, these things would not bother you. So, in order for you to feel safe, must the mods censor this site for you?

I agree that malicious personal attacks should be moderated and the mods have always done this effectively. There is no need to censor this site in such a ham fisted way—much like the Roman church during the dark ages with similar effect.

If you were confident in your beliefs, these things would not bother you.
Interesting …..I have had plenty here pissed off at me because they believed I said they were going to a hell they do not believe in the first place. If they do not believe there is a hell, why would they be upset if I did tell them they were going there? They should treat it as if they were told they were going to be sent to Neverland, or Dracula’s castle……curious.

@Espiritus_Corvus Fear, from me? What do I have to fear, an atheists version of my “worthless” Bible? An atheists view of my God, my Creator? Why would their opinion matter to me in the slightest? The rude & aggressive delivery and cursing of my God is a different story, and while I respected them enough not to ‘witness’ to them (as they asked), they couldn’t show me the same level of respect.

From what I read, the mods were concerned that they were trying to sway theists through various religious questions for a long period of time, an agenda, and that is apparently not allowed. I even asked a question for Seek, to get it out there, about ‘what would you like to ask an atheist’.

It’s ironic that former theists are often the ones who fight the hardest against God.

I can always fight my own battles and I didn’t ask them to leave by any means, but now that they’re gone, I can’t say I miss them.

@Hypocrisy_Central I think it’s what is perceived as ’‘high and mighty’’ that pisses people off, and not the fact that you believe they are going to Hell. I think what people get out of it is that you think yourself better and more good than others.
(this is not my opinion, merely an observation, or at least what I think is going in such instances)

There was a Muslim woman on AnswerBag (who actually had an account here) who was really strong about her religion, and would literally flame and insult anyone who disagreed or challenged her views. She always said she would pray for our souls, but in such a way that you can obviously tell that she wants to mock and spite, rather than to actually pray for someone’s well being. Again, not attributing this to you because you’re not like that, but it’s what the whole perception thing is reminding me of. I think it’s the whole intent that pisses people off, rather than the literal part of it.

@Symbeline ”High and mighty”? BAHAHAHAHAH BAHAHAHAHA Sorry, that just had to give me a belly laugh. I am not higher and mightier than any one, in fact I try to be the opposite of.

There was a Muslim woman on AnswerBag (who actually had an account here) who was really strong about her religion, and would literally flame and insult anyone who disagreed or challenged her views.
Anyone can point out where I flamed them because we disagree I would like to see it. I try to be as respectful as I can even when dealing with those concoct obvious lies and misinformation to make me look bad or worse. If I did not care about protecting thin skin I could phrase things a lot worse. ;-)

I think it’s the whole intent that pisses people off, rather than the literal part of it.
Then the problem seems to be more theirs than with me. If a woman goes out in a mini and stands at a bus stop, if a man standing near is looking over her shoulder at the clock on the bank but has to really focus because of the glare, if she gets irritated and say something to him because she believes he is staring at her, the problem is with her because she sees something that isn’t really going on.

I would like to ask both @Symbeline & yes, you too @KNOWITALL if they would like to come out for a drink or three with me? I won’t bite…hard! :)

@Hypocrisy_Central ”High and mighty”? BAHAHAHAHAH BAHAHAHAHA Sorry, that just had to give me a belly laugh. I am not higher and mightier than any one, in fact I try to be the opposite of.
Yeah, but it seems that some believe this. Of course one would have to ask to be sure. Again, not my opinion, but merely an observation. Not telling you to change anything, anyways I’m sure you’ve seen this comportment long before I did.

Anyone can point out where I flamed them because we disagree I would like to see it. I try to be as respectful as I can even when dealing with those concoct obvious lies and misinformation to make me look bad or worse. If I did not care about protecting thin skin I could phrase things a lot worse. ;-)

Indeed. I’ve seen people flame you a lot; never saw you flame anyone, not to my knowledge, anyway. Even if I don’t like certain beliefs or views, that doesn’t make them automatic flaming, which goes back to what I said before; people get offended and then turn everything around to look like a victim, or it makes them think they’re right. And not only in Fluther, but everywhere online.

@ucme You know I’m in bro. I also don’t bite TOO hard.

@Symbeline Theists are just people with ego’s and feelings like everyone else, but I certainly don’t feel better than anyone.

The moral issues, I do get that. Personally I know a few atheists that aren’t that nice, and when I continued to see that here, it made me question the whole morality thing with non-theists. I think a lot of theists feel that way, even though it sucks to admit, we just don’t see a lot of nice atheists.

Honestly, we all know ET was writing a book which was his purported motivation in asking so many questions, because it was about a cult leader. I tried to talk to him about it but he refused to acknowledge he was emotionally manipulating jellies for personal gain.

@ucme Sure I’m in- I do bite hard though, so let’s keep it cool =). You flying us over on your private jet or what? I want to see that castle where you took your son while I’m there! Symby’s pretty cool.

Good times, alas no private jet, but i’d love to own a helicopter one day #helicoptersareawesome

@ucme Are you like my hubs, flying the little buggers around the house?

@KNOWITALL I usually keep my mouth shut here about that because theists ARE a minority, but because of that, some of them constantly feel the need to point out that atheists are assholes, and sometimes it really pisses me off, because whenever I get into these discussions, I respect all the views and try to be as nice as I can, yet it’s never recognized. I’m just dumped in with all the rest. It’s not because I say I don’t believe in God that I’m saying Christians are idiots. Yet this is all some people get out of it. Not thinking about you or HC; both of you guys are fun people to debate and talk with as far as opposing beliefs go. But some other fuckers on here, I don’t even wanna think about haha.

And if I DO make offending jokes about God or Christians, I think some of the peeps here who know me are probably aware that I make offending jokes about just about anything haha.

@KNOWITALL Nah, it’s the real thing or nothing for me, although I do sometimes play with my chopper :D

@Symbeline I think knowing and being told we’re a minority here but a majority in the US is annoying. Like that’s my fault so I should act accordingly, poop.

You’re cool, but for me, it’s like slapping your grandma when you cuss God or something. It can never be cool to anyone who loves God, does that make sense?

I know some atheists are cool, I have hung with Wiccans, Buddhists and all kinds of people but it’s always cool, not antagonistic like it is here, it’s really weird tbh. It’s like they want me to admit the Bible is fake, that God is a joke and that’s the only way I’m cool, but I don’t play like that. I’ve lost friends over it, I’ve talked to my mom about it, that’s how much the negative spirit here bothers me.

Admittedly, I am very proud of my fellow theists, not myself so much, for holding their tongue during some of the scathing and mocking. My temper doesn’t always allow me to walk away quietly, turning the other cheek, but I’m trying really hard to show that christian love. It’s not easy for me, nor for a few here who have admitted to me that they struggle as well.

You’re cool, but for me, it’s like slapping your grandma when you cuss God or something. It can never be cool to anyone who loves God, does that make sense?

Sure does, but one can’t expect everyone to understand that kind of thing, and they cannot be forced to go with it if, for them, it’s not important. Not on the same level of course, but I love horror movies, and above all, zombies. There are many anti zombie people here, who would relegate all zombie fans to the status of hicks. I cannot change their minds, nor do I care to.
Now compared to a religion, that may sound silly to some, it’s just fuckin zombies; but it might be the same for those who don’t believe in God in regards to religious beliefs.

Whenever I get into these discussions, I either question the belief, or explain why I don’t believe it, but it’s always interpreted as something else, which is why now, I pretty much ignore all this stuff except for a few people who I know won’t act that way. I’ve never wanted any Christian to admit anything, no matter what I think about the religions, or Bible. What purpose would that serve me, anyway?

You’re cool, but for me, it’s like slapping your grandma when you cuss God or something. It can never be cool to anyone who loves God, does that make sense?
I think they would better understand it if it is equated to telling a gay person that anyone who is not straight is a redacted, or a redacted. The same way that will boil their blood and chaff their hide is the same way I feel when people do not at least give respect to the Creator of the universe. It is Him in me that would cause me not to go off my humaness and used those terms in referring to gay people, because gay people are His creation and have the option to be His children too.

@Hypocrisy_Central I am not higher and mightier than any one, in fact I try to be the opposite of.

Even fat people?

@livelaughlove21 Even fat people?
Even them, one will not ascend to heaven by elevator so weight is notwithstanding. Skinny people, fat people, gym rats all have equal opportunity to achieve, or miss, getting to heaven

@Symbeline Think of it this way, when you go to a Moslem country, foreigners are advised to cover themselves and be respectful. You wouldn’t shout epithets against their God for fear of getting killed.
The thing about showing disrespect to Christians is that in this day and age, we don’t really take up arms anymore so there’s not much threat of killing or violence, we just try harder to get that respect politically, and I know many people of other faiths dislike that (we’ve discussed that here as well.)

So in the end, it could serve your political purpose to just live and let live in regards to religion. I practice that with all my friends in RL and it works out great. There are good and bad people of all faiths and belief systems, so instead of seeing religion, maybe we can all try to see the individuals.

You don’t believe in God but we both like zombies, we both have a good sense of humor, and who knows what else, so there’s common ground. It just seems here that religion is very divisive and it doesn’t have to be. I won’t preach at you about God, but I don’t want to hear F—- God either, see what I’m saying, it’s a mutual respect thing that seems the right thing to do for all os us.

@Hypocrisy_Central maybe but I don’t want anyone to think all theists believe the same things, because it’s not true. With people like David Koresh and his child brides and compounds, and some churches praying gays straight and coercing them into hetero marriages, it wouldn’t serve God (imo) well to have anyone think we’re all the same.

@KNOWITALL “Think of it this way, when you go to a Moslem country, foreigners are advised to cover themselves and be respectful. You wouldn’t shout epithets against their God for fear of getting killed.
The thing about showing disrespect to Christians is that in this day and age, we don’t really take up arms anymore so there’s not much threat of killing or violence, we just try harder to get that respect politically, and I know many people of other faiths dislike that (we’ve discussed that here as well.)”

No, the thing about showing “disrespect” to Christians* isn’t that they don’t really take up arms, it’s that in modern, first world nations, the freedom to speak ones mind is considered an irrevocable right, as is the freedom to believe or disbelieve whatever one wishes. Comparing such nations to religious theocracies is a poor comparison.

*(And sorry if this bursts your bubble, but most non-believers aren’t inherently disrespectful towards believers but have been showered with ample disrespect, even abuse, from the side of believers simply for their lack of belief. I myself experienced this disrespect and abuse firsthand when I was still a child and expressed some skepticism over some things in the Bible that didn’t quite jibe with other things in the Bible or somethings I was being taught in Sunday School or even with my own reasoning (which I thought surely must be flawed). And surely, I thought, my religious teachers would have no trouble answering my questions. Was I ever wrong.)

@Darth_Algar Okay, you’re certainly entitled to your opinion, but it doesn’t seem to be part of any solution to the social and political climate.

It doesn’t ‘burst my bubble’, because I have many non-theist friends as I have said above and numerous times during these conversations. They just aren’t jerks about it, they don’t mock my choice to believe in God, and they don’t disrespect the comfort it gives me.

Just remember that respect is a two-way street, and people in general can just be jerks, but that doesn’t mean we should lump them in a group. So if one non-theist is a jerk in a serious thread about religion, it usually doesn’t get contentious, but when it’s five non-theists being jerks, while theists are trying to maintain a civil conversation, it’s difficult to not get a little angry. They know we’re reading it so we can respond in a mature fashion. Personally, I lose patience way faster than most here and when I smell BS I call BS, that isn’t going to change.

Questions are a good thing, all of us have them. I think some of us, theists, are not used to questioning a lot, it’s an indoctrination process that usually starts when we’re children, so to me it was just a fact until I was a teenager and had my own questions. Unlike you, I was encouraged to ask questions and explore other religions and attend services anywhere I wanted to gain some perspective. I’m sorry you went through that as a child, but I was taught that God encourages us to question.

One of the reasons this whole situation bothers me is that I truly learned a lot from some people here that were not of my faith. I thought some were really cool, and we were all friends, then it got so stinkin’ argumentative and disrespectful, no learning or understanding was done on either side, and isn’t that really the whole point of communication?

I am not the same theist as HC, and you probably aren’t the same non-theist like @Symbeline.

@KNOWITALL

The thing is I haven’t seen a whole lot of disrespect here. I’ve seen that some people get offended when someone else is honest and frank about their views rather than sugarcoating them to placate the other party, but I’ve not seen a whole lot of disrespect.

@Darth_Algar I have, when you have some free time you should look a few up. One that really got me was F—- God and thing’s in that vein.

I’ve said a few times that if anyone here worshipped a rock in their driveway, I wouldn’t ridicule them and in two years, I haven’t, but I don’t want to seem superior.

I don’t like to jump into these things and I don’t care what anyone does or doesn’t believe in but as has been said often it is the imposition of some in the religious community on legislation that makes me angry.

@janbb I’ve heard that before, that’s why communication is so important, so it’s not ‘us’ against ‘them’ politically, etc…
When we can’t communicate at a mature level, it creates a toxic environment imo.

@KNOWITALL I agree.

@KNOWITALL Well for sure, if you don’t like hearing things like fuck God, I won’t say it on Fluther, or around you. k I just did, but that was in a different context lol I swear all the time, but I’ve always said to myself, I don’t swear around kids, and I don’t use racist garbage either. It’s not my intent to insult any Christian for believing what they believe in. As you just said, someone could worship a rock, I won’t make fun of them either. When I swear like mad my aim isn’t to offend people; if they’re offended because they don’t like the word fuck, the hell with it, but don’t think I don’t feel bad if they think I’m attacking THEM, or something they like/worship/is important for them/what have you. Of course I realize that with a vocabulary such as mine, it’s inevitable, but if you and I are able to work stuff out, the situation isn’t completely hopeless. :D
I know I’ve said offending things about Christians before, but compared to some others, I don’t make a career out of it, and most times I’m civil. I remember one time, saying that if God didn’t like gays, then He shouldn’t have created them. Probably said it more rough than that, can’t find the thread anymore, but I also can’t help it if that’s what I think. Thing is, if I defend Christians or Christians ideals on here, it won’t be recognized other than by the person I’m defending. All people remember is the two or three times I said something stupid lol. (that goes for other subjects too though, not just religion) this is one example where I wish it would be recognized, not because I want street cred but because I was trying to make a point about something or other, and that is the point of a community for everyone to hear one another out. Lest I got this whole Fluther thing wrong. XD
Believe me, I’m all for the live and let live thing. If I was a believer, those are the kind of things about God and The Bible I would probably appreciate the most. I’m all for the common ground thing, and if saying stuff like f God offends you, I’ll watch my tongue about that from now on. :)

@Symbeline That’s awfully cool of you, and I do appreciate it. :) And I won’t slap your granny – lol

I think sometimes that’s why theists question the morality of non-theists more often than not, because we think about thing’s a little differently. Theists (or some at least) are always thinking in terms of good/bad, black/white, moral or not, it’s an ongoing internal battle for perfection, which is personified in Jesus, whom some of us see as the only perfect human being. Does that make sense?

I reject a lot of thing’s, like taking money from parishioners to stockpile it, or pay your preachers a couple hundred grand a year. I don’t attend church because it seems more like a business than a soul-savig endeavor, at least here in the Bible Belt to some degree.

I also reject the idea that gay people choose to be gay or are inherently choosing sin when they are their authentic selves. Jesus was besty’s with Mary Magdalene and overturned tables in the temples when it came to greed, so that is my basis for some of that, plus being raised by hippies, I just wasn’t raised to judge other people, just accept them for who and what they are, even if I choose differently.

When it comes to offending people here, I try not to either. Some think I’m a beeyotch on wheels, I’m sure, because I say what I think regardless of popular sentiment (a theist and a Republican, ah hellz no- lol), but I don’t purposely try to be offensive. So if I offend you or say something that need clarifying, feel free to tell me so or ask me.

In my daily life, I don’t run around with christian tshirts on or anything, I may even play darts and have a beer, so unlike a few other people here, I see grey areas and don’t think Jesus cares if I have a beer on occasion (he did turn water into wine ya know!) Anyway, peace to you, I appreciate the convo.

@Darth_Algar The thing is I haven’t seen a whole lot of disrespect here.
Only because most of the guess are too drunk now, or went home; had you got to the party sooner, you would have seen more. ;-)