General Question

elchoopanebre's avatar

In the Israel/Palestine conflict, who do you consider to be the aggressor?

Asked by elchoopanebre (3074points) June 29th, 2008

My brother and I just had an interesting conversation about this and I’m curious to see what fellow Flutherites think.

And another side question:
Assume that both of them were on an even playing field in the matter of nuclear weapons capabilities. Who would you rather have atomic bombs?

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30 Answers

susanc's avatar

Britain was the aggressor.

syz's avatar

I have to admit, I don’t understand the very convoluted history of the area. But I can’t get past the fact that the Iraelis are an invading force (“promised by God” is not an adequate excuse, in my mind). And the Palestinians suffer from incredible human rights abuses. I don’t understand why the US turns such a blind eye.

If I grew up in such an environment, with no hope, no way out, I would probably consider violent measures, too.

damien's avatar

I don’t know much about it but from the way it’s portrayed on the news, they seem as bad as each other.

And I’d rather neither of them have atomic bombs. In fact, I’d rather no-one have atomic bombs. Why live life on the brink of destruction?

wildflower's avatar

Offense is the best defense, right? I’m sure they’re both just defending. Both firmly believe they’re in the right and I don’t see them changing their stance anytime soon. Personally I don’t really care what they call the country, I’d just rather see them stop killing each other.
As for the nukes – if either gets their hands on them, it’s pretty much time for us all to kiss our asses goodbye….

robmandu's avatar

@wildflower, too late (since 1967).

chaosrob's avatar

@syz Agree completely.

wildflower's avatar

Good point. Lets just hope for their continued want for self-preservation and materialism (i.e. wanting to stay in certain countries’ good books).

tinyfaery's avatar

Until the end of WWII, people were living in that area, going about there lives, and then suddenly someone comes in and says, well you have to leave because these people here need someplace to live, and where you live was promised to them by god. Ridiculous. Israel was created because no one else wanted to take the Jews. I’d be upset too. But decades later I can’t put fault on either one; both sides are fighting for their lives.

jrpowell's avatar

I just wish we would stop funding Israel. I don’t see why we spend Billions per year to provide them with missiles and airplanes. Let the free market decide who wins.

seVen's avatar

Palestinians are the agressors.If you’re not spiritualy blind you can see Satan always hated God’s chosen and used all different means of force through dictators/governments/people to destroy Jews, just because God chose them to lead others and just because Jesus was of Jewish heritage.

elchoopanebre's avatar

I was going to say what Robmandu said- that Israel already has nuclear weapons.

wildflower's avatar

And thanks to folks like seVen, they’re will always be those who would rather fight than co-exist…

elchoopanebre's avatar

I don’t care what people on Fluther have to say about God.

Likewise I don’t care what people on Fluther have to say about atheism.

tinyfaery's avatar

@jp… Exactly! One of the major reasons the US has such problems in this area of the world is our financial support of Israel. And based on the actions of the state of Israel, I don’t think the Jews have moral superiority over anyone.

elchoopanebre's avatar

HAHA

The add I just got on this page when I refreshed is:

http://singlemuslim.com
The “Leading Muslim Marriage Service”

robmandu's avatar

I’m pretty glad most of us don’t work for the State Dept. of any gov’t.

ezraglenn's avatar

Certainly both sides have been aggressors at various points, but the true aggressor is history and religion.

syz's avatar

So much evil and misery is done in the name of religion.

omfgTALIjustIMDu's avatar

@syz you said “the Iraelis are an invading force (“promised by God” is not an adequate excuse, in my mind).” First of all, the Israeli army was built for defense and does everything it can NOT to invade. America is an invading force.
Second, if “promised by God” is not an adequate excuse, then when is it okay for Palestinians to send constant rockets and missiles to border cities and conduct suicide bombings and other terrorist attacks clearly focused on Israeli (Jewish) civilans?
Lastly, you were wondering why America has turned a blind eye towards the alleged human rights abuses Palestinians face. Perhaps this is because America, like many other countries that were acquired by invasion and conquering, was infinitely worse to the Native Americans and other people who lived in the country than Israel is to the Palestinians. In comparison, the medical and other kinds of care Israel has given Palestinians is saintly.

omfgTALIjustIMDu's avatar

@tinyfaery: get your facts straight. There has been almost constant fighting in that area since biblical times. It wasn’t just a place to dump the Jews in.

tinyfaery's avatar

There has been fighting everywhere, always. No matter how you rationalize it, the Palestinians were told they had to leave the area they lived in to make room for others.

theabk's avatar

One simple way to look at this question is to ask which side has the power to end the conflict at this point in time, and clearly it is the Palestinians. If Palestinian terrorist attacks stopped today, Israel would not launch any further attacks. On the other hand, every one of Israel’s conciliatory gestures (proposing a two-state solution, withdrawing from Gaza, etc.) has been met with renewed violence on the part of the Palestinians.

Consider, too, that the stated goal of Hamas (aka the elected Palestinian government) is the destruction of Israel, whereas the majority Kadima party in Israel supports a two-state solution.

One final way to look at it – the “perfect weapon” argument. If either side could have access to a weapon which would only kill “legitimate” targets (soldiers, terrorists) and not civilians, would they use it? Israel clearly would; as it is it attempts to emulate such a weapon as much as possible, although it isn’t always possible to avoid civilian casualties when Palestinian terrorists are protected among civilian human shields, including children. Palestinian terrorist attacks, on the other hand, purposely target civilians. This is not an academic distinction; it is a profoundly important moral issue – and it certainly says a great deal about who could better be trusted with a nuclear weapon.

As Golda Meir said, “There will be no peace until they love their children more than they hate us.”

marinelife's avatar

I think both sides are at fault. I think there has to be a Palestinian homeland. I think peace efforts must look forward not back or they will be for naught.

I hate the idea of either side having nuclear weapons.

omfgTALIjustIMDu's avatar

Well said, @theabk. Bravo.

Lightlyseared's avatar

does it even matter anymore?

Pointing the finger and blaming people is not going to help bring peace.

Trustinglife's avatar

There has been so much pain and so many lives lost – on both sides.

When one is blinded by pain, revenge is a natural solution.
When one is broken open by pain, one can see how all people suffer.

In that place, there is the possibility to see our shared humanity. From there, solutions emerge.

For those of us not in the middle east, it is so important that we not succumb to despair. I have two examples of hope for us. The first is a summer camp where Palestinian and Israeli teens live together and learn from each other. The second is a Palestinian school where the basic rule is “peace starts with you.”

We can all hold the possibility of peace, of shared humanity. This is something we can all do; we don’t have to leave it just to the Israelis and Palestinians.

Our holding this vision matters.

susanc's avatar

@theabk: seems to me that sending settlers to build on Palestinian land is
certainly an act of aggression, and a sneaky one too, as the Israeli government can then justify using military force to “protect” these “civilians”. Most of whom,
by the way, are Americans.

gooch's avatar

Palestine is the aggressor the victors of WWII decided who got what. So it’s for Israel!

shrinkess's avatar

Both are equally aggressive. I don’t blame them – either of them. The Palestinians had their land divided by someone else. The Jews deserved a homeland, but nobody who decided consulted either faction.

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