What are your thoughts on the concept of "Schrödinger's Rapist"?

I think it’s a good effort at making men aware of the conditions women face on a daily basis.

I guess I never thought about how I interact with women the way this article presents it. Just by accident, I must have done it right. Actually I had to be coerced into asking my now wife into going out with me. Interesting insights into some of the thought processes going on behind the eyes.

It is very easy to appreciate this woman’s perspective as I have been around men in bars and other situations and some men can be real pigs around women. I have had women I know articulate about the glaring lack of real gentlemen these days. I can’t imagine all women are this paranoid but at the same time I am sure there are women in dense rough and tumble urban areas that would have a higher level of alertness than this author. It is truly sad commentary to read that a woman or any woman would have to feel this way on any level.

The article is spot on. I would say most women think about being assaulted by a man, no matter the situation. No man has a rapist tattoo on their foreheads.

I don’t like the link to Schrödinger’s cat because this concept exists theoretically. I understand the connection, but rape is not a thought exercise.

This is just more feminist propaganda from the neo-femenist movement, who claim we live in a “rape culture” backed by the “patriarchy”. Give me a break.

It’s very well said. I’ve been clear on all of this since I started dating again some 13 years ago. It’s not nonsense; it’s not hysterical; it’s not man-hating and it’s certainly not stupid.

Damn. 1st I’ve heard of this. I had no idea women were in such mortal fear of being raped all the time.
It reminds me of the time I was sitting at a bar having a drink, minding my own business when three hot young women from the secretarial district came over and started up a conversation.
They just wouldn’t leave me alone, even though I tried and tried to ignore them. They rubbed certain body parts all over me and must have drugged my drink when I wasn’t looking, because next thing I knew I was in a strange home tied to the bed with 3 naked women having their way with me.

It was horrible, horrible I tell you. Well, except for the part where they were having their way with me. that was pretty awesome.

@flip86 and @Dan_Lyons: how fortunate for you that this is something you can dismiss with derision and/or sarcasm. What a wonderful world you live in where you never have to ask mall security to walk you to your car if you work late, and still have some concern about the security guard himself. What a pleasure to have never had a long train ride or plane ride or bus ride next to someone who became annoyed and/or threatening because you wanted to read your book instead of talking to him. How lovely that you never actually feared for your life when you turned down the offer of a dance and some pissed off dude followed you to your car and broke the window because “hey, where the fuck do you get off treating me like that in front of my friends?”

Get a fucking clue. #yesallwomen.

I wish I had written that. It’s spot on!

And if I could, I’d give extra lurve for @canidmajor! You win!

@canidmajor The same could be said of murderers, muggers, mall shootings, school shootings, car accidents, plane crashes, drowning, etc… Why live in constant fear?

That blog post was nothing but fear mongering, man hating, condescending bullshit.

Your opinion on this is nonsensical, @flip86. (At least @Dan_Lyons’ was just… um… flip.) Women are, in general, smaller than men. That’s a fact. Men are generally stronger than women, and more prone to violence than women. Those are facts. Even depending on how rape is defined – and I do have some issues with that from time to time – women are raped far more often than they should be. That’s a fact. It’s men who rape women far more often than women rape men or women rape other women. That’s a fact. Rape can occur nearly anywhere. That’s a fact, too. Given high rates of mobility, high degree of anonymity in crowds and cities, and generally low-quality policing and detective work, rapists these days are probably more likely to get away with rape, even given our heightened sensitivity to the topic these days, than at almost any time in the past. That’s a supposition of my own; I’d be surprised if it’s not also a fact.

I’ve talked to a lot of women who love men, and they are ‘concerned’ if not actually afraid, when they meet a new man. I would say that you’re the one who is condescending here.

@CWOTUS You explained it really well. We don’t ~omg live in fear,~ but interacting with strange men is a legitimate safety issue. For me, the level of concern is kind of like walking through a rough neighborhood at night. I might spend 5 minutes a day passing through there, but during that time the possibility of something bad happening is very real.

Thanks, @Haleth. For the life of me I can’t see how anyone with an ounce of judgement and sense can’t see the truth of what was in @rojo‘s link, whether they ‘like’ that truth or not. I sure don’t like it.

@flip86 and @Dan_Lyons If I were to meet either one of you somewhere and you made that sort of comment to me, all my red flags would be flying, and I’d be edging away from you!

I don’t understand why anyone would pick on me for telling my story of personal tragedy when I was raped by those three babes.

@Dan_Lyons That’s not “personal tragedy” or rape by any stretch of the imagination, and you ought to know it. And any policeman would agree with me.

Forcing sex on someone resisting the attempts isn’t rape? Really!

And not a personal tragedy?!?!?!
I’m still traumatized to this day.

Thank you for sharing this Rojo. I hope more men read it and take it seriously.

@CWOTUS Murder can occur nearly everywhere, muggers, car accidents, all that stuff. I don’t walk up to people assuming they are gonna murder me. If I thought that, I wouldn’t approach them.

You are much more likely to be robbed or physically assaulted than you are to be raped.

Also, you failed to mention male victims of rape. There are hundreds of thousands of men and boys being raped within the correctional system.

On the advice of Mark Twain, I’m going to cease my argument with you on this topic, @flip86.

I agree that prison rape and other violence is a massive problem, but it’s entirely separate from what we’re talking about here. Inflation is getting bad again, too. Want to toss that into the mix?

A bit over the top, I would’ve thought. Any woman this preoccupied with rape should go out and learn a bit of self defence, and then move on with their life, secure in the knowledge that they can kick the arse of any man who tries to do anything they haven’t consented to. There is just no need to be that preoccupied with the possibility of rape.

@flip86: “Fear mongering”? Who, exactly, is that article intending to frighten? Not women, because we already know this stuff. As @Haleth says, “we don’t ~OMG live in fear~”, and we aren’t paranoid, but we are cautious and alert in most settings, it is only sensible.

You equate school shootings with car accidents? Really?

The things you mention are all important issues, each of which deserves it’s own discussion. This is not that discussion.

@flip86 “I don’t walk up to people assuming they are gonna murder me.”

That’s the point this article is making, which you’re missing my a mile. When you’re a woman, you don’t have to “walk up to someone,” because strange men come up to you in public all the time. REALLY, all the time. Not all of them are nice. If it happens when you’re walking to home alone, or alone in a train car (I used to work late nights), then it’s a cause for concern. You have to at least be aware of what kind of vibe he’s giving off.

I spend most of my time at home, at work, or in safe public places. But it’s impossible to avoid situations like this entirely.

@canidmajor “We already know this stuff.” I thought that, too. It seems like the main audience of this article is actually men, like she’s trying to explain as clearly and kindly as possible so they will understand.

Yes, @Haleth, this is definitely for men, and I just can’t see how men would be frightened by it. I’m guessing that @flip86 is annoyed that we don’t assume at all times that he is above reproach. I’d also bet that he doesn’t understand that that attitude of his translates, in person, to a type of presentation and demeanor that is vaguely threatening. Because we learn to read facial expressions and body language (not just women, most of us) at an early age, all those signals can be off-putting.

Wear your doggie face dress @Haleth, and teach it to bark and bite! ;-)

What a pile of crap. Women want to be desired, approached and pursued. However, due to the nature of each individual woman’s personal opinion of what constitutes creepiness and attractiveness, it all comes down to each woman’s opinion concerning what defines creepiness or not, not any objective action per se a guy would do. However, if women are justified having this attitude then it should be just as justifiable for guys to be weary of any women they would meet as well.

I would of had more respect for the author’s comments if they didn’t promote traditional gender roles, the same ones which put guys in the creep factor predicament to begin with, in a supposedly feministic, progressive world, and didn’t make all guys out to be potential rapists and violent felons. If this is the case then I have every right to assume that every woman that I’ll meet is potenntially dangerous to me as well, that they may have a dangerous boyfriend who I wasn’t aware of (happened to me already), is a potential thief, gold digger, drama queen who’ll even lie about rape to get attention (happens more often than most think), etc, etc, etc.

How about if I edit the title of the OP to Schrodinger’s victim instead? Everybody is justified in being weary of others in vulnerable situations, including women fearing they may be assaulted, raped or murdered, so I’m not criticizing the caution. What I am criticizing is the fact that many women expect to be approached and pursued while making these comments, and the fact that anybody can be justified in being weary of others. More politically correct misandry that has become so prevalent in society that most people are blind to it even when it occurs in front of their faces.

Ya know, maybe it is just me but I find it hard to feel sorry for someone who refers to his rapists as “hot young women” and “babes” or in a separate post as “three hot babes”

I can’t see it.

Sorry

Wow, @Paradox25, just wow.

Even if you’re right that “women want to be desired, approached and pursued” – even if that’s true – do you suppose that it’s true for all women, all the time, and by all men? Are you that out of touch with reality? The point of the article was that if that is true of a particular woman and how she might want to be desired, approached and pursued by you, she’ll let you know if you’re observant. When you’re not observant, or persist in the face of evidence to the contrary, then she takes a cue that these attributes apply to you: not observant or caring about her intention and/or uncaring about her non-verbal rejection.

As far as worrying about potential thieves, gold diggers and liars, well, we all have to be somewhat on guard against those people, I suppose. But you didn’t happen to mention anyone in your list of concerns who would intend to do you bodily harm – directly – simply because of her perception that your attitude is “too good for her” or “out of her league” or anything like that.

And for that matter, how often do you feel “vulnerable” around women, anyway? Have you met any lately that could beat you up – and acted angry enough for whatever reason or for no reason at all – that they might actually do that? Have you ever been beaten by a woman before, or by anyone at all for that matter?

The point is that women do not want to be victims, but if they have been victimized in the past – and you should consider the statistics about how often this has been so, and how many women have realized after hearing the story of a family member, friend or acquaintance, “That could have been me!” – they learn from each other the things that they should and should not do to preserve their personal security. And if you’re a guy who appears determined to “desire, approach and pursue” a woman despite her placement of barriers between you – however subtly she does that – then you are perceived as a clear and present danger to her.

I cannot imagine why this is so difficult to grasp.

@Paradox25: Can I assume that you mean “wary” when you continually say “weary”?
If this doesn’t apply to you, then, by all means, ignore it. Your second sentence is so cliched, so 50’s in its presentation, that I laughed out loud.
I got the impression that you didn’t actually read through the piece, you were just instantly pissed off so didn’t bother. That’s too bad, it’s got some good points as to when a woman is approachable as well as when she wants to be left alone. In fact, it’s got some pretty good tips for anybody approaching anybody.

But you seem to have all the answers. Nothing left to teach you about civil interaction, is there.

And what @CWOTUS said. :-)

@CWOTUS Wow, I’m amazed that you didn’t read the actual title of that blog, because it was detrimental to determining the true meaning behind it: “A GUY’S GUIDE TO APPROACHING STRANGE WOMEN WITHOUT BEING MACED”. Yes, the blog had a deeper meaning, but it was very obvious where the author was getting at. Your ‘observance’ theory is unfair, because not everybody is the same. I’d like to see more of a dual effort in how people meet, not learning games and signals, and then ridiculing guys for not getting it. You can’t be kidding me here.

@canidmajor Wow, insults for disagreeing, and the smiley face and me being severely outnumbered doesn’t reduces the validity of my main point here. Rape culture is not going to go away by making males of all ages feel horrible about themselves while expecting them to adhere to traditional gender roles. Rape culture can be greatly reduced by changing the way we meet others, and eliminating rigid gender roles.

I don’t think you had provided enough points to tell me why my post was laughable. In fact there are at least an encyclopedia’s worth of data wrong with your comments, so I’ll try to contract them into something intelligible here. The fact is men are ridiculed when they’re passive, or when they’re aggressive concerning initiating the dating process, and even concerning intimacy. Many times it comes down to a woman’s individual opinion of what constitutes unwanted advances and actions vs something desirable. It’s completely unfair to expect guys to be mind readers here without a motivation to change the way people meet in general to begin with.

You want to eliminate rape culture, then eliminate gender roles concerning dating and masculine expectations of males. If women can be free from gender roles, why can’t men be too? I don’t support reversing roles either, because I don’t think it’s fair for men to lay games either. What I do support is changing the way people meet altogether, but there’s too many people who promote game, because they find it attractive in some way, but then ridicule those who fail at it.

I did read the entire blog, but the problem with it is that it came with an agenda. Rather than demonizing guys for doing something wrong, why not encourage women to change the way they meet others? Both sexes have a responsibility to address the elements that affect them negatively. Hate only breeds more hate, so it would be nice if misandry became as unacceptable as misogyny. Good luck with trying use strong arm tactics and shaming an entire sex into respecting another person.

Yep. All I ever think about is being desired by men.~

It would be nice if men were stopped being ridiculed for not pursuing women too, or sucking at ‘game’ and signal reading. The real man culture is prevalent in the left-wing elements as well as the right it seems.

All knee jerk reactions aside, @Paradox25, I don’t understand why you are so angry about this article. I have seen it in other places, and I have seen other men also get angry. I have read it and reread it, and every time I do, I see an article written by a woman, from a woman’s perspective, very likely in answer to one of her male friends asking her why his approaches to women don’t seem to work. I have had that conversation with some of my male friends, many of the women I know have also mentioned this. The title is, of course, inflammatory, but the content really isn’t.

So, without rancor, with honest curiosity, can someone tell me why some men react with such negativity to this article? If the way you approach women works, this shouldn’t affect you at all. If it doesn’t, there is actually some good advice in there.

Men get mad at the article because it frames all men in a negative light. And her little, you’re a nice guy, you’d never hurt a woman paragraph at the beginning is condescending. After that intro, she spends the rest of the article stating how she automatically assumes every guy is a rapist.

My need to be safe trumps your need to be viewed as a nice guy @flip86. Since I have been sexually assaulted by ‘nice guys’ (one a date and another my boss) and sexually harassed in the workplace by men who were in positions of authority, I will continue to be wary of the intentions of men until they prove through their actions that they are safe. As others have said, I do not spend my life in trepidation when around men, but I do practice caution. The article is just informing ‘nice guys’ why women may be wary of their perfectly innocent approaches and how they can avoid receiving a negative response.

No, it is patronizing all men, who the blogger assumes “are potential rapists”.

Until you’re not, you are all potential rapists. Sadly. Don’t blame women for this. Blame your peers who behave very badly and are without doubt in the minority.

I don’t know if you have daughters, but if your do how would you advise her to behave around men? Say she was sitting on a train and a man came and sat next to her and started to talk to her, would your advice be to treat him as if he was a nice guy and no threat or to be cautious until she was sure he was okay? Or your wife is in a bar and waiting for a friend and a man comes up and wants to buy her a drink, should she say yes, accepting he’s perfectly safe, or should she reserve judgement until she’s sure?

I don’t believe that all women think like this. It doesn’t seem healthy. Using caution is smart for everybody.

All women are not going around and seeing an ‘R’ stamped on the forehead of men they don’t know. I don’t start friendships or any other relationship with men from a position of assuming he’s a rapist. However, I also don’t put myself in situations where I could be unsafe until I know that person well enough to be sure. I can understand that as a decent guy it feels horrible to consider that women who meet you might consider you unsafe, but all men have the potential to rape or sexually assault women and some, a small number, do.

I think if we want to change this, we need to attack those men who behave badly. Not the writer of a blog who points out how and why many women feel and react negatively/cautiously around men who are strangers to them.

Men are insulted by a blog post written, as I said, by a woman from a woman’s perspective”. I cited 3 typical examples in my first post here (car window broken only once) that happened (or some variant thereof) over and over again to me. Not every woman thinks this way, @flip86, but most do. It isn’t just about being aware of potential rape, it’s about constant harassment that has the potential to turn threatening at any time. I get tired of having to devote the time and energy into avoiding incidents. At work. Walking in a park at lunch hour. Riding on a bus. Having an evening out with some friends. Going to a movie. Shopping for food after dark. Etc etc etc.

You’re pissed off because some woman wrote a blog post that is vaguely insulting to men in general.

I’m pissed off because she is so spot on.

@canidmajor I’m not pissed off about this particular blog post as I am about the general internet neo-feminists who have a strong man hating attitude. I mean, there are some crazies who claim all sex, even consensual sex, is rape. Search PIV is rape in Google. This blog post contributes to that general attitude and that is why I don’t like it.

Well, @flip86, I get a bit pissed off at Internet extremism as well. There’s a boatload of misogynistic MRA stuff out there, too, but I have the ability to separate that from posts I see about men being concerned about the shifting of traditional attitudes and roles and how it affects them. This is the blog post being discussed. She’s promoting the idea of people getting together. You may not like her tone, but to lump this post in with the extremist man-hater stuff is as inappropriate as if I were to call you and @Paradox25 MRA activists.

@canidmajor My problem with blogs like these (believe me, I’ve read plenty of these in my 40+ years on this planet) is that they typically assume all men are potential rapists, and ridicule an entire sex, and all the while ignoring the endless women, blogs, websites, etc that ridicule men for not being assertive and pursuing women like they used to babble. Why don’t the same elements that claim they want equality and are quick to remind men they’re potential rapists go after the same elements that encourage men to man up and go after women? You never answered this, so maybe I’m wasting my time here by asking you the same question again.

The fact is when men don’t pursue women for dates they’re criticized by the same elements that write misandry-filled blogs anyways for being passive, effeminate pansies. This goes for making out too, since many times a woman doesn’t make it clear what she wants. I already had a girl I was dating gently push me away when I had tried to kiss her. I backed off of course. However, right before we broke up she ridiculed me for not being more assertive! Everybody keeps ducking my tough questions here. Rape culture will not end until both men and women change the way they act, and their expectations of the other.

Your comments about MRAs are nothing but straw men too. The fact is, like feminists and feminisms, there are many different types of MRAs. Not all MRAs are conservatives, but are made up of liberals and progressives as well. Some MRAs are traditionalists, while others are progressive. Many MRAs do indeed lash out at women, but many feminists and tradcons lash out at men in return. However, the lashing out of men is so prevalent, and is such an acceptable part of most western cultures today, that many people simply refuse to acknowledge it or make a big deal out of it. Many MRAs however concentrate on issues boys and men of all ages face.

Seriously, I can’t understand what’s so damn fucking difficult for many tradcons and feminists to apprehend that addressing issues boys and men of all ages face, especially younger males, is not misogyny. Addressing the issues that are typically ignored by most fragments of most cultures is ultimately beneficial to women. This is why so many people dislike feminists and white knights. Many MRAs want rape to end too, but they believe we need a different approach. If you’re going to call all MRAs extremists then I can be as easily justified in calling all feminists extremists as well. Do you want me to post some examples here of the love feminists have shown for their fellow men?

@flip86 You’re wasting your time, because we’re supposed to just buckle under and accept the fact that because we’re men we are crap, but never women. One airline even had a requirement that men could not sit next to children, only other children or women could. When is this extreme hatred of men going to stop? I’m not backing down here, because what will it be next?

@Paradox25 Actually I agree with both you and the OP. There are always two sides of every coin, and the problem is the harm that comes in the extreme end of either spectrum. It’s not right to hate men. Neither is it right to blame women for the evils in society. It’s always a community thing. Only when each person takes responsibility for his/her actions does healing come.

My mother in law hated men, and she raised 3 boys! You can imagine the damage that caused. I married one of them. Now I’ll tell you why she hated men. Her father ran off when she was about 9, and she really didn’t her much from him after that. This caused her mother to have to go to work, leaving her home to care for herself and her older brother. In those days, boys were not required to do much around the house, so she had to cook, clean, and generally “take care” of him while her mother worked two jobs. While her mother was away at work all those hours, her older brother generally got to do whatever he liked, so he went out of his way to make life intolerable for his little sister. She’d cook a meal for the two of them, and he’d take his plate, set it aside, and then clear her plate off into the trash. He also beat her, and although she didn’t exactly say it, I believe he also molested her regularly.

Now we can’t lay all the blame on her older brother, for their mother chose to work that second job to “give the kids a great life”. She also apparently turned a blind eye to the evidence of the abuse her daughter was receiving. The woman also wasn’t great at choosing husband material, because he was not faithful and didn’t seem to care much about his kids. I can only guess what motivated her parents to act the way they did, but I suspect it was some combination of family dysfunction, neglect, and abuse in their own growing up years.

The early days in my marriage was hellacious for me because hubby tended to see me his wife, the way his mother had taught him to see women. I in turn had my own issues with men, and that made things difficult for our own children. (By the way, I’m 60 now, and I’ve been married to the same man for 36 years. We did resolve our problems, and even have healed from much of it. All our kids have grown up with relatively few scars.) I hope you can see my point here. The healing only came after we confronted our particular histories, attitudes, and actions.