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Unbroken's avatar

Do you agree with the following statement, and why?

Asked by Unbroken (10697points) July 7th, 2014

So I was watching this documentary and among the many ideas and theories it presented it posited that patriarchy was broken and that in order to heal patriarchy we needed to let women and their softer nature to breed a peaceful and effective world
i.e. The Sun Never Says

Even after all this time
The sun never says to the earth,
“You owe Me.”

Look what happens with
A love like that,
It lights the Whole Sky.

Reference: The Gift of Hafiz.

It states that the opposite of patriarchy is not matriarchy but fraternity.

And that not only is this the new face of feminism but that this change is vital to our economy, politics, people regardless of gender, and the future.

Do you agree with any of these statements? Please back up your answer with an explanation.

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11 Answers

JLeslie's avatar

I think if we look around the world the countries that are the safest to live in and the most prosperous hav equality for the sexes, or more equal than not, and have women in positions of power. I’ve been told that the fight between the Catholics and Protestants in Ireland finall stopped when the women got sick and tired of their children fighting and dying. Women are probably more likely to set aside anger and keep their eye on peace. If women were in charge of the Palestinainas I think they probably would be closer to peace.

If you like documentaries you might try Precious Child. It drags a little, but I think it is worth watching. It is about a Palestinian family whose baby has a genetic disease and in Israel they can treat it. They are given charity money to pay for the treatment and passage into Israel. Throughout the movie you understand that the Palestinian culture this particular woman lives in is patriarchal. You get the feeling that if it was up to her she would seek peace if she had more power and was surrounded by women with power. As it is now she just parrots what she is supposed to say about hate, distrust, and being willing to sacrifice the very child she is saving for the cause by being ok with him becoming a martyr. She later admits to saying such things because of the pressure she feels from family and friends, and I think she and many other women go along with whatever is expected of them and barely know their own minds.

zenvelo's avatar

Patriarchy doesn’t need fixing, it needs to be abolished. Until the feminine is fully embraced we will continue to have wars.

And the first place to start is with the notion of a patriarchal God. Anyone who defines a God as a Father and not a parent places a limit on God and therefore misses the reality of God.

Bill1939's avatar

@zenvelo I agree that patriarchy prevents gender equality. However in more than two millennia multiple forms of a mutating Trinitarian perspective of creation and purpose continue and will continue to evolve, and a belief in a God in Three Persons will never become extinct. Neither will those beliefs that have far longer histories.

I imagine that maintaining the balance point between a patriarchy and a matriarchy is difficult. One problem may be that only one parent carries the linage. Simple hyphenation forces a form of ’-archy’ into play as the first of two last names will establish either a patriarchy or a matriarchy. Also, hyphenation only works for a few generations before the surname becomes too compounded and complex to be convenient. Creating a new name for the family may establish that midpoint, but linage is lost. How important is knowing your ancestry and their history?

Only by children witnessing the character emerging from the entwining of masculine and feminine qualities will this merger become the mean over time.

zenvelo's avatar

@Bill1939 The adoption of monotheistic religions created societies with limited human visions of what God is, and whenever monotheism prevailed it wiped out the feminine. Two millennia is nothing in what we’re talking about: religions that involved the feminine predate that by 10,000 years.

The early church attempted to embrace the feminine with the beatification of Mary, yet the ongoing male only priesthood and support of patriarchal roles contradicts that effort.

Unbroken's avatar

@JLeslie I tried to look up the documentary you recommended but couldn’t find it to watch.
It’s true though many women don’t know what to think. Or are so used to giving into the people and pressure around them they can no longer hear themselves. Education helps with that a little. Luckily we live in a place where women can improve their mind.

@zenvelo You are so right something happened to the goddesses. Once Christainity and Muslims etc established themselves as a dominating religion we became dominated. No doubt matriarchy wasn’t the answer but neither is patriarchy.

@Bill1939 I don’t see the surname as an essential aspect to lineage. We have ancestor trees. More important we have memories of a favorite or least favorite aunts and uncles and grandparents. What is a name beyond a name. What is more tell is the memories and real relationships. I carry my father’s surname. However I have no relationship with him and only one family member from his side I choose to have any contact with. On the other hand I have relationships with other members of my extended family. Though not many. I am a believer that you pick your own family. My generation and the generations to come are embracing that concept more readily these days. Who needs the stuffy obligatory family gatherings where you fight to stay civil on an extra holiday day off work after you put so much effort into it. Give that day to someone who really knows and appreciates you.

And Trinitarianism… well zenvelo is correct. But never mind that. The father the son and the holy ghost… What sex is the holy ghost exactly? If I remember the bible correctly God said “I Am what I Am” in reference to gender to what he was. Meaning god is incorporeal and incomprehensible, gender is implied as an allegorical aspect. This is further confused that the Hebrew language as with the Romance languages there are male and female words mon ami ma amie etc, god is male word.

Here are some allegorical aspects that portray God as a female deity.

God is usually characterised as male in Biblical sources, with female analogy in Genesis 1:26–27,[5][6] Psalm 123:2–3, and Luke 15:8–10; a mother in Hosea 11:3–4, Deuteronomy 32:18, Isaiah 66:13, Isaiah 49:15, Isaiah 42:14, Psalm 131:2; a mother eagle in Deuteronomy 32:11–12; and a mother hen in Matthew 23:37 and Luke 13:34.

Genesis 1:26–27 says that the elohim were male and female,[6] and humans were made in their image.[7]

JLeslie's avatar

@unbroken I gave you the wrong title. It’s Precious Life.

As far as education, some people don’t realize that girls are not educated in some countries because schools are very dangerous for girls, the girls are like sitting ducks. So, parents don’t allow their girls to go to school to protect them and then over time, over generations, the society changes. Eventually, it is normal for girls not to be educated, even if previously it was normal for girls to go to school. I think it can be deceptive in terms of how much of the society actually does or doesn’t want to educate the girls. The majority might want to educate the girls, but the danger is big enough that they appear to be going along with depriving women of education.

Bill1939's avatar

@zenvelo I referred to beliefs that preceded Christianity; “Neither will those beliefs that have far longer histories.” It is not surprising that linked with the most primal of human instincts, the ability of the physically strongest to dominate saturates religion and politics with masculinity.

@Unbroken most if not all popular religions either exclude women from exalted status or consider female deities as secondary. What percentage of Buddhist Priests are female?

I tend to see Spirit as feminine and a Creator that transcends gender as amorphic.

I will look up the Biblical references later.

Unbroken's avatar

Thanks @Jleslie i will watch it and look forward to chatting with you about it soon.

I understand that is the case. @Bill1939 I’m not religious myself. Since man creates religion it tends to emulate the culture just as the spiritual realm was primarily goddesses while matriarchies existed. If we must continue to have formal religions it makes sense there should be a shift that reflects all the changes of society. That is the reason the major religions are after all so accepted their ability to adapt. Even if it does create schisms using christianity as an example there was the puritans the catholics trinitarianism 7 day adventist pentecostal baptist lds amish episcopalian unitarinism orthodoxy etc and then even those sects have splinter sects… Change is inevitable.

Bill1939's avatar

@Unbroken, though change is inevitable, resistance to change is inevitable as well. Splinter troglodyte groups will survive the purge of traditionalists, prepared to reinfect a society under stress with a survival-of-kind prejudice. People are likely predisposed to react to prolonged stress with acts of self preservation.

The world has had a quarter-century of economic repression, fears, imagined and real, and radical changes in social customs. Stress over time shifts consciousness to primal motivations and a diminution of the scope of who are seen as one of us. Personal progress and a hope it continues will return one’s focus to the broader perspective available when at peace.

Unbroken's avatar

After a quarter or stress, ideas and failed attempts one wpuld think we were are not only primed for change but that we are getting a clear message that the accepted culture and ideals are failing us.

Of course there is always opposition but will it be enough to stop or slow change? Can we afford to be slowed by opposition, is there a possibility to use the force of opposition against itself and turn the tide using that amassed energy?

Bill1939's avatar

While change cannot be stopped, it can be delayed and it can be corrupted. The environment must support change in order for to take root. In a totalitarian society, changes are inhibited by imposed limitations. Changes are freer in a democracy. However, as America slips into a plutocracy, freedom decreases.

I cannot imagine how the momentum of a force can be reversed unless it meets with an immovable object. Gradual redirection of the flow of a force can be achieved by applying a smaller force flowing against the direction of force. The expanding emancipations of individuals’ rights illustrate how a persistent social pressure can produce change over time. However, the rising tide of traditionalists and neofascists can reverse this progress and prevent its emergence for decades.

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