Is it not a fact some women help the idea of seeing women as objects of sex?

Yes.Expecting it to change is idealistic nonsense.

This image encapsulates it all.

In case you’re unaware, hooters is a resturant chain whose waiting staff are primarily voluptuous young women, usually referred to simply as “Hooter Girls,” whose revealing outfits and sex appeal are played up and are a primary component of the company’s image.

Sure. Sex sells. No denying it.

Yeah, that’s true. So what? If you’re looking for excuses for misogyny, this probably isn’t the best venue for that.

Women are objectified and men are parted from their money. It’s a well honed, time tested scheme to make $$. Are both sexes not being taken advantage of?

You seem to like this theme, @Hypocrisy_Central, and by your logic, women support misogyny by working. By needing to eat and support themselves and their children. By earning money within an established system.

It would be wonderful if everyone was a crusader, but your logic is like saying that it’s OK to vilify fat people because some fat people are employed in the fast-food industry, or to vilify smokers because some smokers work in venues that sell tobacco products.

Sometimes the choices are limited.

It would seem to be a fact .A beautiful woman can get almost anything she wants by flaunting her sexuality/sensuousness and that affects the other women who would rather be seen as just people..

That may be one effect, but it isn’t the intent. The intent is to capture viewers’ attention to the product by using using a human body (female or male) in an erotic pose and/or lack of clothing. It can also backfire for several reasons. This is an interesting article on the subject.

Here is a TED Talks video that addresses the effects of such advertising.

The view of a woman as a sex object has nothing to do with women, no matter how they dress, and everything to do with the male gaze. Men do the objectifying, women just live their lives however they choose.

I’d argue that men are being objectified more and more. It’s all over social media. Abs, bulges, butts; tables are turning. Unfortunately, no one benefits. People are not parts, they are living agents that are much more than pieces.

Women are naturally objects of sex but using sex to sell is an unnatural cultural phenomenon of capitalist societies.

@kritiper You don’t even need to flaunt it to get stuff that you never even asked for. Some women flaunt it to bolster their self esteem.

Face it….in a bar of single people the over riding theme is usually sex for the men, potential partners for the women. Women know that to attract a potential partner they’re competing with other women.

For me, in a bar, the over riding theme was “I’m gonna kick your ass in foosball and in pool!” I never, not once, picked up a guy in a bar. Never met a potential mate in bar either, although it could have happened.

I’m not sure that it’s that unnatural, @flutherother. It’s more complicated than than the animal world, for sure, but even the animals use sex to sell themselves.

@Dutchess_III You are right but capitalist societies do take it a bit too far.

I agree…but it works. It’s why we have the shitty news that we do. We’re looking for excitement and horror, not news. We all contribute to that.

@CWOTUS So what? If you’re looking for excuses for misogyny, this probably isn’t the best venue for that.
Who says I am looking for anything, if there is any misogyny to be mentioned it is society and the media doing it, you need to address them. You don’t know what intention I have, you can leave the paper tiger in the zoo, and we will just deal with the facts, if there are any facts incorrect in the question, do tell, so we have a place to start a discussion over an accusation. (tic tic)

@canidmajor You seem to like this theme, @Hypocrisy_Central, and by your logic, women support misogyny by working.
I like the theme of pointing out the truth, and to some it is not misogynistic, to some it might be empowering. If you find something amiss in the question, or want to add something that shows or dispel some women are abating the cause some women are trying to do, then please, speak up. If it is all about screaming ”misogyny!” we can put a match to that paper tiger, and straw men right now.

By needing to eat and support themselves and their children. By earning money within an established system.
I never said it wasn’t an established system, I am saying just that. I am also saying some women don’t see it as something they are forced to do or that they are being played by working in the industry. Some women know this establish industry desires what they can present visually and use it. The residual affects is that some women who don’t have the ”goods”, and want to be seen different than eye candy or a symbol of sex will be thought of that way. To think otherwise would be to put one’s head in the sand and say buying bootlegged DVDs at the flea market and knockoff handbags are not enabling copyright infringement, even if indirectly. If no one purchased bootlegged DVDs or knockoff handbags there would be no incentive for those to sell them to do so.

It would be wonderful if everyone was a crusader, but your logic is like saying that it’s OK to vilify fat people because some fat people are employed in the fast-food industry, or to vilify smokers because some smokers work in venues that sell tobacco products.
Wha-wha-what? Turn the GPS back on; you are so far off the road you are going to hit trees in a minute. Who is vilifying anyone? Did I say those women who buy into the media should not be doing so? No…..you did not hear me say so. What you did here, I will tell you again, is it is a fact that some women who decide to use what Mother Nature gave her before Father Time takes it away are indirectly at odds with those who don’t care or want to use what Mother Nature gave her, because she feels it reduces her to an object of pleasure or a hood ornament, little more. Or do you deny that? I don’t think I know of anyone who doesn’t smoke who feels that the actions of smokers are causing them some negative affect; fat people surely don’t. If fat people thought other fat people working in a health club would somehow get them seen in a certain light, they might have something to say.

Sometimes the choices are limited.
Are you extending that to everyone? The guy who rips off car stereos, sells dope, or swindles people as a con man because they feel ”choices are limited”, get a pass? I say that to say this, no one makes a woman take off most or all of her clothes for money, in nearly every case. If she did not want to be a Hooters girl I am sure she is still smart enough to get a job as an associate at Fashion Bug or Kohl’s, etc. she can even get a job fast-food, she don’t have to say the only choice I have is to sell boots naked; or is that what you are saying.

“How can other women change the culture when members of their ranks are furthering the idea of women as objects of sex?”

That’s one reason why real change is an ongoing effort that takes generations. 150 years ago, women worked to normalize wearing pants, and were ridiculed for it. Who knows, maybe if it weren’t for their efforts we’d be wearing corsets and crinolines today.

100 years ago women in western countries were fighting for the right to vote. In some places today, arranged marriages of child brides are sadly common. Even if fixing things like this seems monumentally difficult or impossible, it is worth the attempt.

Back to the sexy models. Modeling (like acting, singing, sports, etc.) has the allure of a glamorous lifestyle. Getting “discovered” and being famous, the rags-to-riches story, is the American dream. Many, many people want to believe that their special qualities will let them escape to a better life. The alternative might be working at wal-mart or in fast food, not making ends meet, maybe being stuck in a small town. How many narratives are there in our culture about rags to riches? We’ve been trained to believe we are special, and to try to escape to a better life.

It creates a situation where a basically infinite amount of people are competing for insanely scarce jobs. It leaves all the power in the hands of the employer. On top of that, models (and actors) are usually freelance or at-will employees.

If a model doesn’t want to do something, they can always find any number of models who are desperate for the job. If a fashion designer or advertiser has a vision, that vision is going to happen. And what sells is the sex appeal of women. Unless the model is famous enough to be a celebrity in her own right, they are basically interchangable.

People talk about becoming a musician, actor, or sports star as if it’s the be all to end all. Sure, those people are wealthy and famous, and they may even end up being powerful or influential. But think about the person who signs their paychecks. (almost always a man). That’s who has the real power. The people who design and execute our media- fashion designers, advertisers, movie directors are a step down in power and influence, and also almost always men.

That gives us a media industry which is almost entirely funded and created by men. The intended audience of this sexy advertising is also men- sex sells.

The part where women are heavily involved, modeling, has some of the least creative input in the whole process. They are sent to makeup and wardrobe and given direction about their posture, the expression on their face- everything.

So no, I don’t think women participating in this is helpful. But given the economic demands of everyday life, it’s understandable. A woman can make a lot more money being a model (or a hooters girl, or whatever) than she could with similar skills at another job.

But I also think women’s participation here is almost- irrelevant? If men decided tomorrow that they wanted to see women in covered-up clothing, that’s what our media would be.

Everyone likes looking at a sexy person. The best agents of change in this issue are actually men. Men can decide that they don’t want to be manipulated by advertisers, and that they are smarter than that. The market always takes care of itself. If they ever stop buying into it, things will change.

@Haleth But given the economic demands of everyday life, it’s understandable. A woman can make a lot more money being a model (or a hooters girl, or whatever) than she could with similar skills at another job.
Giving all the logic you spoke, and those you didn’t, more than a few women can’t seem to accept the conclusion that how they feel they should (women as a whole) be treated they have women within their own ranks that see different. Some women who work hard to have what the market sees as a sexy body or they are just naturally blessed with it is going to use it to her full advantage. Whether or not they see themselves as meat on the hook, or not, they know what they have and accept what income it can generate for them. Can you really expect a young woman without a college degree to pass up an opportunity to make RNIII type money to sup[port ”the struggle”?