General Question

noraasnave's avatar

Guys, in regards to sex with the opposite sex does it seem like sometimes they want to pretend like they are being raped or do they want to be 'mistreated' during sex?

Asked by noraasnave (3087points) July 11th, 2008

The most common one I have experienced is “pull my hair!” I was like…um…okay. Then when asked about it, she said “I thought you would like that” and it made me curious.

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40 Answers

jrpowell's avatar

I’m probably going to regret saying this.

I had a girlfriend that was into me trying to (pretend) rape her. She would put up a fight. She enjoyed it for some reason. I didn’t. That was a really short relationship.

cheebdragon's avatar

Check you out jp…..... ; )

To answer the question, no, rape just doesn’t sound fun to me.

noraasnave's avatar

@cheebdragon: This question was for guys. It is a well established fact that 99% of women do not like rape. You also misread my question.

@johnpowell: Thanks for the input. Doesn’t that make you wonder what is going on?

Randy's avatar

Man, I’m not sure what your talking about. I’ve had some girls that liked it rough, but I wouldn’t say that they were into being raped, even for pretend.

cheebdragon's avatar

So i misread…“does it seem like sometimes they want to pretend like they are being raped”???
hmmm…...but then you said.. “It is a well established fact that 99% of women do not like rape.”
Sounds like you have some issues with rape…..

whatthefluther's avatar

Fantasy rape or abuse is extreme but I’m sure it occurs more than I care to imagine. More often it would be some degree of domination/submission whereby one of the partners is in control and takes or does what he or she pleases, whereas the other partner submits to the others demands or desires. It would not be unusual to see partners switch roles. Now, hopefully, this is all in fun and within pre-discussed and agreed upon limitations because if it is not, it is rape as far as I’m concerned.

noraasnave's avatar

@cheebdragon: Therein lies the irony of the situation. Women abhor rape and rightfully so, but at the same time some women like roughness that at some level parallel’s rape. I have heard reports of women that like to be choked, slapped, hair pulled, etc., while having sex. They actually ask for that. I am curious if any other GUYS might have insight or stories to share along those lines.

I made my first post on a girl question the other day, so I am not saying women can’t post her or anything…I am looking for guys thoughts on this. If you have an answer to contribute, ladies, then by all means. I am not trying to start a battle of the sexes or anything.

noraasnave's avatar

@whatthefluther: I appreciate your conscientious response!

I can’t figure out why they would want to be treated like that. I know that pain is tied to the pleasure centers of the brain and that some pain especially during sex is interpreted by the brain as pleasure. Perhaps that is why.

St.George's avatar

Just to clarify: I would correct your statement to say that 100% of women “don’t like rape.” Actual rape and the role-playing you are talking about are two different things.

noraasnave's avatar

@megan64: I said 99% because if I said 100% I figured the political correct nazi’s would get me ;) In my original question it says, ”...does it seem like sometimes they want to pretend like they are being raped…” I am not sure why I am getting so many correction from the opposite sex on this topic and not more answers ;)

I just realized my incorrect wording…I said, “Guys” and not “Men”. Guys can collectively be men and women…DOH!

kevbo's avatar

Yes. It’s a primal desire to be dominated. Just go with it as much as you’re comfortable. Eventually, you’ll find a happy medium.

ninjaxmarc's avatar

I have been with a handful amount of women and no on the rape but role playing, roughness, hair pulling, butt slapping, nipple pinching/biting/nibbling, anal stimulation, deep throat, domination, etc. Yes!!

andrew's avatar

I forget where I read this, but rape fantasies are in the top 5 sexual fantasies, right up there with prostitution fantasies.

cheebdragon's avatar

Were you reading Hustler or Playboy? Haha

andrew's avatar

@cheeb: no, it was a legitimate study.

cheebdragon's avatar

@norasnave- I apologize, I don’t know what I was thinking…..I didn’t realize that only guys were allowed to answer this question…..how dare I give my 1 sentence answer, simply stating that rape did not sound like fun to me…..when the “No girls allowed” sign is obviously hanging on the door and everything…~

cheebdragon's avatar

andrew- I was kidding, but you have to admit that it does sound like an article that could grace the pages of a Hustler magazine…?

noraasnave's avatar

@cheebdragon: It appears that I have annoyed you. I am also sorry for the confusion my inappropriate question wording has generated. You are welcome to share whatever answer you feel is appropriate as I mentioned earlier:

“made my first post on a girl question the other day, so I am not saying women can’t post her or anything…I am looking for guys thoughts on this. If you have an answer to contribute, ladies, then by all means. I am not trying to start a battle of the sexes or anything.”

kevbo's avatar

… unless that’s what you want. hehe.

fireant4040's avatar

I’ve been with alot of women who have liked their hair pulled. I didn’t ask and neither did they…I just did it and they liked it. But I doubt any of them would like being raped. Alot of women just like it a little rough. I think you’re just a little paranoid and are reading too much into it. Just enjoy!

Knotmyday's avatar

A little pain is fun…until it hurts. Sometimes a bit’o kink puts the fizz in the soda.

marinelife's avatar

Yes, the fantasies exist. Yes, they are common. It is a mischaracterization to call it “pretend like they are being raped or do they want to be mistreated during sex.” What they are, are fantasies of submission. In a way, if a woman opens up to you enough to share such a fantasy, it means that she trusts you and feels very safe with you. It would be very good if we, as a culture, could have more open discussions of these issues so that we talked about and read the scientific data. We are such a puritannical culture that even science about our sexuality is largely taboo in everyday conversation.

I can understand that you would like to hear from men about this experience. Women are particularly sensitive on this issue, however, because we fear there is not clear understanding, especially among men, about what the difference is between a submission fantasy with a trusted partner and the violent assault that is rape.

This paper provides very clear and readable in-depth coverage of the issue that you as a future marriage and family counselor might find interesting. I am going to provide an excerpt that speaks directly to the topic here:

“In their study on women’s sexual fantasies during intercourse, Hariton and Singer found submission fantasies to be very common, second in occurrence only to the theme of an “imaginary lover.” In more recent studies of women’s sexuality, more than half of the
participants reported having force fantasies (Pelletier & Herold; Strassberg & Lockerd). In Knafo and Jaffe’s study, the most common sexual fantasy entertained among women during intercourse was that of being overpowered.

An important difference exists between a desired forceful sexual fantasy and an undesired actual rape. Beyond the obvious difference that, in the former, no actual violation of body and will is experienced, the fantasist also has complete control, while a lack of control characterizes rape. Moreover, rape is fraught with the possibility of bodily
harm or death of the victim. Research corroborates that women engage in these fantasies for the purpose of sexual arousal and pleasure, not out of desire for an actual rape or force experience (Bond & Mosher, 1986; Kanin, 1982).

For example, Zurbriggen and Yost (2004) argued that there appears to be no relationship between submission fantasy and real-world behavior (e.g., desiring to be raped), given
their findings that there was no connection between women’s submission fantasies and various attitudinal measures assessing rape acceptance, negativity toward
women, and belief in hostility between men and women.”

MissAnthrope's avatar

I’m becoming a huge Marina fan.. I find I agree 100% with you on various topics and you always pull out exactly the same sources I’d be looking for. :)

Rape fantasies are common, they’re not abnormal in the least. As the study above says, there’s a distinct difference between rape and a rape fantasy, where ultimately the woman does have control over whether it stops.

I think another key thing not touched yet on is that, in a relationship, the person performing the pretend rape is someone the woman cares for, trusts, and has an established sexual relationship with. I realize that women do get raped for real by established partners that they trust, but what I mean here is that the people involved are lovers doing it to act out a fantasy—meaning, to add novelty, to increase arousal.. for both of them. The woman is sharing a secret part of herself with her lover and for many people, that is really hot. This makes it about a shared sexual experience with a chosen partner, rather than a frightening and traumatic situation where someone is truly taking something from you against your will.

I’m hesitant to say this because I’m afraid of TMI’ing everyone, but I will be the first woman here to admit that I have rape fantasies. I don’t know why, maybe it’s because I tend to be a bottom, but being taken “against my will” is a turn-on. Being a lesbian, my comments here reflect my experience with past partners… in that it’s not uncommon. I had one in particular who really enjoyed being on the receiving end of said play.

Personally, I think if it turns you on, it’s consentual at the core, and it’s not causing damage to anyone.. whatever floats your boat!

noraasnave's avatar

Dang it! I let one woman in and they all show up! Just Kidding, Gals. I can see that I have touched on a topic that women are very vocal about. Personally I find it interesting that women find being taken control of by someone they love, trust and care about so overwhelming. It is so opposite of the feminist values that are touted in almost every answer. I am wearing my flame retardant suit so I am not afraid to step into the fire.

I personally find rape revolting, so that when my S.O. asks for me to do those ‘type’ things. I will say, “um…okay….if you want…” and do it. To which I receive a very receptive response…but when I ask later why she likes to be controlled and talked to like that….she just said that she thought i would like it. It is still confusing. I am trying to get someone to translate this situation into ‘Guy’ language for me.

Perhaps she can’t claim her fantasy persona because in real life she feels like she has to be ‘so in control’.

I am living in the land of IEDs…i can handle a little heat, ladies. ;)

MissAnthrope's avatar

Well, I’ll be frank and say that many men tend to watch porn. If a man watches more porn than he’s had experiences with women, I think he tends to fetishize what he sees in the videos. I’ve had enough experience with men that I’ve found a significant portion seem to want to have ‘porn star sex’, meaning they want to practice what they’ve watched. This is either due to their fetishizing it or, if a lack of actual experience is the case, they believe that that’s how it’s done.

If you analyze porn, the majority of it is aimed at men, and there’s a pervasive sense of women being used for the pleasure of the men in the videos. Lots of women get turned off by this kind of porn for that reason.. it’s not aimed at them and doesn’t take into account what the woman needs to get aroused, plus women in porn videos are often treated roughly and seemingly without regard to their own pleasure.

If I had to guess, I’m betting that the women saying “I thought you’d like this” have seen some porn and believe that that’s what men like. It’s true, it’s what many men like (but not all, of course). You may also be right in that perhaps she’s embarrassed to own up to her “dirty” fantasies, that putting it on your desire takes away from the fact that she likes doing things that aren’t “feminist” or whatever. I know from experience that it can be embarrassing sharing your deepest fantasies, even with someone you trust implicitly.

My view is that you can be a feminist and still like to have your hair pulled, to be dominated, etc., since it’s consentual and often the woman’s choice to participate in the activity. It’s not about feminism at all, it’s about a shared experience with your partner.. I mean, some people find a little pain and roughness to be a turn-on, so really it’s just about pleasure.

marinelife's avatar

Men in power, like say Eliot Spitzer, often like to be dominated during sexual encounters. That does not change or lessen the fact that they are powerful, dominating guys in life.

@noraasnave I was sorry that you did not respond seriously to my post. I was hoping you found it informative. Your wife might have felt shy admitting her fantasy turn on to you when questioned directly about it. In the terms of your upcoming profession saying she thought you would like it is projection.

I also wanted to say that you can ask for input from a certain subgroup including by gender, but the questions are open. The questioner can’t control the responses. Thank goodness.

I am also sorry that you have not been more welcoming or gracious about women responding here. Frankly, women are more likely to have insight into your wife’s behavior than other guys. I don’t think anything negative or even joking was said to you when you posted on the “girls” question.

noraasnave's avatar

True, good point. I stand corrected. I do appreciate the serious, well thought out input to my question. Thank you for the statistics.

baseballnut's avatar

Some great answers here to a very thought provoking question. I’m fascinated by the divergent male/female views. Kudos to the asker for a brave question.

One more female answer and this isn’t the scholarly viewpoint espoused so well by others within this thread – but something that came up at the last happy hour with a group of my girlfriends. Besides the submission element, do you think your SO is into the “mystery man” aspect of this? In other words, having (safe) sex with a “stranger” she happens to know and trust?

We all concurred that our fantasy is the diet coke version of the standard rape fantasy – hot, faceless sex, some submission, hold the pain and violence.

Anything ring a bell there?

La_chica_gomela's avatar

I don’t understand why this question was asked to guys, instead of asking girls. How do guys know what girls want? Why not just get the info from the source?

noraasnave's avatar

Obvious to all, I was in error to ask the guys. They shrug and say just enjoy it, and have no deeper response it appears. Evidently women feel strongly about the topic and have had some insightful input. I guess I should ask women the deep questions from now on.

I have learned that I can post more often on the ‘girls’ questions even though that appears to be taboo (since I saw no other men post on there). Now I have learned that if you ask guys a questions women will answer and guys don’t show up. Interesting don’t you think?

Perhaps I don’t have enough data to bring these thoughts above the level of theory, but they are interesting theories. I have to gather more datum.

I should shed a little more light on why I asked this question. I was wondering if ‘abuse’ was going to come up if not as a cause, then perhaps effecting the frequency of these requests and the exteme nature of requests. My S.O. has been raped in the past more than once and has been sexually abused by a family member when she was young for continuous years. Does that past have any bearing on her desire to be ‘mistreated’ during sex now?

What I am hearing is a consensus that these behaviors are asked for by women across the board and don’t indicate issues or hurt.

Perhaps by being able to reenact those abuses in an environment where she has some control and is completely loved allows that past to heal a bit. What do you think?

I want to help her in any way I can. Help me help her.

MissAnthrope's avatar

@noraasnave – I think I understand your question and why you were asking guys.. personally, I’m not offended or anything. I think it’s interesting that women have so much more to say about it than the men do.. making me think guys are like “Eh, whatever, as long as it’s fun.” Heh.

Your question about the abuse is a really good one and I almost touched on this earlier, but my posts were long enough and I didn’t know whether it would be relevant to your situation.

The ex I referred to, that was really into the rape play, she said she had experienced rape and sexual abuse in her past. We were experimental and tried different things, as couples do, but the rape play really struck a chord in her and she wanted it all the time. For a period there, that was featured every time we had sex. I did it because she liked it so much, but I was a little disturbed, knowing her history, and also because sometimes it’s nice to be tender with each other when being intimate.

I didn’t want to do anything that harmed her emotionally or set her back in terms of healing from the abuse. I had a hard time understanding how someone who had experienced such horrible trauma would want to re-enact it. Eventually, this phase of her wanting that every time passed, and things went back to our previous variety.

I’ve had some years to dwell on it and I think in a way, it can be cathartic and therapeutic, as odd as it sounds. I think you’ve hit the nail on the head, in that I think some women find it therapeutic to work through what happened in a controlled environment with someone she loves and trusts. Psychologists use intense, immersive techniques to treat people with PTSD, basically making them relive their trauma moment over and over and over again until the person is desensitized. I feel like that’s kind of what the deal is here.

You seem like a caring guy, but I wouldn’t worry too much. If she’s willing to talk about it, you may want to check in with her and be certain that the rape play is helping rather than harming. I know that sometimes people who have experienced sexual abuse don’t heal much, but they unhealthily put themselves in situations very similar to the abuse ones.. I can’t say why, maybe it’s a type of mental self-flagellation or something.

marinelife's avatar

@AlenaD Trauma victims of all types do that. People, in general, often pick partners to help heal childhood wounds. Have you read Harville Hendrix? He has some interesting things to say about this.

@noraasnave Guys do answer on women threads. See this one. And by my count, you had responses from six guys.

OK, about the issue of previous abuse and sexual response by sexual abuse victims. It is extremely complex. There are no short or simple answers. You do not say whether your significant other has worked through her childhood sexual abuse issues. That makes a big difference. It is really too complex for a response here.

Here are just a few data points from one source:

” Long term effects of child abuse include fear, anxiety, depression, anger, hostility, inappropriate sexual behavior, poor self esteem, tendency toward substance abuse and difficulty with close relationships.
Source: Browne & Finkelhor, 1986.”

“Guilt is universally experienced by almost all victims. Courtois and Watts described the “sexual guilt” as “guilt derived from sexual pleasure”
Source: Tsai and Wagner, l978.”

“Sexual victimization may profoundly interfere with and alter the development of attitudes toward self, sexuality, and trusting relationships during the critical early years of development.
Source: Tsai & Wagner, 1984.

If the child victim does not resolve the trauma, sexuality may become an area of adult conflict.
Source: Courtois & Watts, 1982; Tsai & Wagner, 1984.”

noraasnave's avatar

I appreciate the concerned responses of many of you. I received many good answers and look forward to hearing more. Thanks.

MissAnthrope's avatar

@Marina – I just finished that book you recommended in your post and I wanted to say thanks! It was a great read, fascinating stuff that makes a lot of sense.

mamabeverley's avatar

@noraasnave There is a huge difference between a little “slap and tickle” and rape. I would think the reason she does not give you a straight answer about what she likes is, she doesn’t really know, or she is afraid that you will think she is a freak.

As a woman in her late 30’s gender roles have screwed women up.( Yes, ladies, you can be mad at me now.” We have to take care of everyone and everything. I am married, have 1 child that is 12, and I don’t have a job outside the home. I do all the cooking, laundry, bill paying, errand running, etc. Plus, I am the only non-working mom on my block, so all school holidays, I have a house full of kids. I get tired of making decisions all day, and it is nice to shed the “Mantle of Superwoman” every now and then. I could not imagine doing all that I do and trying to have a job too. I give working women tons of credit.

Glow's avatar

I simply think it makes the woman feel wanted. Even if its just for sexual reasons, a woman likes to feel wanted by a man.

creatrixe's avatar

@noraasnave, I just read what you said about your wife being abused. From what literature I’ve read about this, the best thing you can do is to not feed her inner demon. She wants you to re-enact her abuse. I think you should talk to a psych, see if there is any possible way that “becoming” her abuser is going to help her heal, or if she is eventually going to make the connection between you and her past abusers. I would so, so strongly recommend that you tell her you will not re-enact what happened to you (and please continue to be uncomfortable with it… in this instance). You obviously do care about her, and she needs help. Seek help. I wonder if you could liken it to the alcoholic’s need for the substance that kills them. Problems of such a heavy nature require an intervention of grace. Please find out what you can do to be that intervention, if you really want to be.

In the context of sex, if a man can master the technique of slapping buttocks, pulling hair, etc., with the right timing and force suitable to the woman, it is excessively erotic for her. I don’t know why, but it sends a jolt of lightning right to the g-spot. But your wife doesn’t sound concerned about her physical pleasure.

I think you’re right: frequency and nature of the requests is a huge key.

Wow… did I just jump the gun and assume the requests are frequent and extreme?!

bean's avatar

no… I would not want to play the rape game… D: doesn’t sound fun! but I think having your boyfriend want you, and being all forceful is nice cuz it’s like they really want you :D

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

Fact from fiction, truth from diction. To answer your question, yes, there are women out there like that. As bad as rape is to most women just as people, men and women, want to be lead around by collars and leashes and whipped with riding crops, and cat-o-9 tails there will be women who find excitement in the fantasy of being raped. Some find fantasy that they are having sex with an uncle or their father, teacher or coach. Some have fantasy they are being forced to have sex with their mail jailor to gain freedom or food.

Years ago I met a young lady never got with her who said she will be virtually my loyal slave if I raped her when we had sex, that she told me to literally “be rough as possible and make me do it”, and if I had friends that wanted to join in and slap her around while we pulled a train on her she was fine with that. Why? I don’t know. Never got a good answer out of her for that.

Sexually American is like a man before the mirror who forgets what he looks like the moment he turns away. Any sex that is not to the liking of the masses gets labeled kinky, wrong, etc. A lot of the sex that is wide open today was seen as wrong by law and could get you arrested, and in some places on the globe can still get you executed. Those who do that activity do not see any strangeness in it, as those women who have fantasy of being raped as well as those people who want to be lead around by leashes and or pissed and crapped don see nothing strange about what they do. So basically there is not strangeness or not, it is just what appetite a person has that excites them.

MRSHINYSHOES's avatar

My wife likes me “dominating” her when we have sex, and like some women she prefers to submit most of the time. Once in awhile she’ll try to dominate me——we’ll fight “to the death” (playfully of course!) but she never wants to beat me even though I let her. I’d tell her, “You better fight me off or else “you-know-what”, but she always lets me “rape her” (if you can call it that). I don’t know if this is rape fantasy on her part, but nevertheless she loves “submitting” to me. Sigh. Lol.

I think for both men and women, as long as it is rape fantasy, it’s okay. Just fantasize about it and enjoy. As long as it’s pleasurable to both parties (as in my case) it will add fire and spice to the relationship. My goodness, life’s too short to be worrying about whether it’s politically correct or not! Sometimes, political correctness has its hands where it shouldn’t be, and particularly so when it comes to two sexually healthy adults who enjoy doing things that may be deemed “kinky” in more provincial circles! Lol.

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