General Question

chelle21689's avatar

Why do people think it's ok to crush if you're married?

Asked by chelle21689 (7421points) December 8th, 2014 from iPhone

Surprisingly a lot of people online think it’s okay to crush and have feelings for someone that isn’t your partner as long as you don’t act on them by cheating. To me a crush is when you start to have feelings, you start thinking of then, get butterflies, etc.

Sure we are human, you are attracted to some people by personality or looks from time to time. But with my bf I never had an urge to want to be with someone or wonder, I find others handsome but that’s it. With my ex I admit I had maybe two or three crushes which were kind of “fed” by my actions and it was because of something missing in my relationship and me being unhappy.

So to me, I think crushes aren’t ok. Attractions yeah but when you start to fantasize constantly about this other person I just can’t think it’s ok if your mind starts to revolve around this other person. It’s a dangerous line you’re walking along in my opinion.

Does anyone out there agree with me at all or am I the only one in this world? Lol

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68 Answers

zenvelo's avatar

Who thinks it’s okay? Sure, on a movie star like George Clooney or Cameron Diaz. But not on the barista at the local Starbucks or the woman in the next office.

“Crushing” on someone in your everyday life is a lot more than finding them attractive; crushing means a focus on them even if it’s not a mutual attraction.

ibstubro's avatar

Can your source this?

Edit:
“Surprisingly a lot of people online think it’s okay to crush and have feelings for someone that isn’t your partner as long as you don’t act on them by cheating.”

LornaLove's avatar

I think to find other people attractive is unavoidable at times. It’s a great question by the way as it’s really making me think. To have an attraction is different to finding someone attractive.One is more detached. A crush is a bit different, in that as you say you would be thinking about the person more. So they would be in your head space. However, it can of course result in nothing at all. So therefore is meaningless, but then it could. What if the crush was at work? That would be harder. How can you switch off from that person? So I think it’s not Okay. A crush on a movie actor would be fine though.

I said ‘you’ in this answer but I know you weren’t talking about you as such.

EDIT: I missed the word ‘online’ in your question. No online crush etc., is NOT Okay.

Earthbound_Misfit's avatar

I’m too puzzled by who thinks this is okay. Certainly some people (including those in relationships) flirt online and some may justify their behaviour by saying it’s not real, but I don’t know that the belief that being infatuated with a real person online is okay is widespread.

cheebdragon's avatar

Because it’s pretty much completely involuntary.
Just because you don’t understand today, doesn’t mean you won’t figure it out eventually. Give it a few years.

seekingwolf's avatar

I’m puzzled by it too. I’ve found people attractive all over, in movies, on the street, whatever. Finding someone attractive isn’t a big deal. I define a crush as an actual infatuation and you wanting to be with that person. I haven’t had that while in relationships because I don’t nurture the idea of being with someone else. Attraction happens involuntarily, crushes you have to feed and fantasize to keep them alive.

chelle21689's avatar

Just google “is it wrong to have a crush on someone if I’m married?” And you see tons of answers on forums saying it’s ok to.

chelle21689's avatar

I think it’s kind of funny how people justify it being ok to have crushes on famous people. Sure they’re famous and it’s unlikely you would be with them but hey it happened in real life haha. They’re still people in my book. Not ok with my bf constantly going on about a celebrity, having posters, desk screen savers of a person he places on a pedestal.

Earthbound_Misfit's avatar

I think it depends on the definition of ‘crush’ @chelle21689. As @zenvelo suggested, having a crush on Cameron Diaz is fine. My husband thinks Sophia Vergara is hot. I know he fancies her. I also know he’s never going to meet her so I’m not bothered by his crush. Similarly, I have a crush on certain celebrities. No harm because it’s never going anywhere. I see a ‘crush’ of this type as being similar to when you were a teenager and fancied some musician. It’s harmless.

However, if you’re communicating with a real person online, and investing time and emotions in that relationship, then you’re stealing from your partner. Your real partner. That’s not a crush. It’s more than a harmless infatuation and it’s potentially dangerous to your relationship.

So, it depends on how the people saying ‘it’s okay’ define crush.

ibstubro's avatar

What is your source, @chelle21689?

ibstubro's avatar

Can you link us to the site?

Earthbound_Misfit's avatar

It’s all about the extent of the infatuation @chelle21689. If your boyfriend is obsessed with a celebrity, that’s a problem. If he just admits to finding that person sexy or whatever, I can’t see any problem with that. I’d say if his attraction is just a ‘crush’, he fancies them, and you find this threatening, you have the problem, not him. Is his ‘crush’ or infatuation with the celebrity, taking away from your relationship. Does he spend hours online looking at her photos? Or is it just a ‘she’s hot!’ type of thing. It’s only a problem if it’s actually stealing his affection from you or his real time from you.

chelle21689's avatar

Finding someone attractive and crushing are two different things in my book. There are handsome celebs out there but none that I could say I have a crush on. Back then I could say I had a celeb crush on Ginuwine the singer…and I actually had the chance to meet him backstage. I oild be super giddy, excited, have all his music, pics, stuff like that. To me that’s a crush.

Earthbound_Misfit's avatar

How is a person collecting pictures, reading books, getting excited about a person affecting you though? Why is that negative? Is the person spending lots of money or time on this ‘crush’? Why is it a problem?

chelle21689's avatar

In my opinion, just putting someone on a pedestal because they’re a celebrity irks me. Like they get a free pass at a lot of things just because they’re famous. My bf and I think Eva longoria is pretty, it’s whatever hats fine. But if he has pics of her on his phone as a screen saver, has a bunch of her stuff all because he finds her hot then at our age it is a bit odd. Believe me I’ve seen some guys and their celebrity crushes whether international or local and it’s always photos of wcw with them on ig.

You don’t have to agree with me, but I’m just lucky that I’m with someone that doesn’t give a rap about celebrity’s lives like most do.

My cousin thinks Channing Tatum is hot…I do not at all lol. Her bf pokes fun at her, but she doesn’t collect his things or seem to obsess over him. How she does it in front if her bf is a bit distasteful and rubs him the wrong way though when she literally drools and squeals if he’s on tv. No partner likes seeing that.

The funny thing is, meeting them is different, I’m lucky I can say I have met my celebrity crush at the time. My friend met 50 cent and her fantasy and crush went away when she met him. Not because he wasn’t hot to her but because the reality just made it different and different expectations.

chelle21689's avatar

@seekingwolf, I have the same definition of a crush as you. Desire to want to be with that person, see them, think about them constantly, putting your energy elsewhere besides your partner, etc.

Having that type of feeling whether a regular person or a celebrity is not ok IMO. Finding someone attractive is a different story.

seekingwolf's avatar

Remember too that having a “celebrity crush” is quite different from having a crush, say, on your coworker, which could develop into an affair or something. Everyone says “celebrity crush” but it almost never means the same as an ACTUAL crush, you know?

You know who my celebrity “crush” is? Leo DiCaprio. Ever since I saw him in Titanic! I go to see his movies. That’s pretty much the extent of my “crush”. I think he’s a handsome mo’fo and very smooth, and he gets better with age just like fine wine! That’s it really.

It’s not about being a celebrity, I just think he’s a great actor and attractive to boot! Don’t want to be with him just think he’s cute.

Anyway, celeb or not, if you’re downright OBSESSED with someone and infatuated, yeah, not okay. That’s okay when you’re in middle school but by the time someone is 18, I figure that they have matured enough to get a handle on their feelings so that they aren’t falling into love every time a hot person walks by. That just screams hormonal prepubescent to me.

chelle21689's avatar

@seekingwolf see, that’s exactly what I’m talking about and thats completely fine. You get me! Lol

FYI, I like Leo as an actor. IMO I don’t think he aged that well haha. But I heard he’s downright mean to his fans. Oh well, ignorance is bliss!

Earthbound_Misfit's avatar

So going back to your original question, where is the evidence that people think it’s okay to be OBSESSED with someone online?

chelle21689's avatar

I told you to google hat key phrase and you’ll see questions and answers. And yes they’re talking about it being ok to develop crushes on regular people like co workers

I didn’t mean obsess really but like constantly be thinking about that person that isn’t your partner, can’t get them out of your head, wondering what it would be like to be with them, having that urge to be with them, to the point where it’s like they’re at the same level as you hold your partner and it sounds dangerously close to me to be ruining your relationship if someone you interact with affects you in that way.

Earthbound_Misfit's avatar

If you’re constantly thinking about a person and can’t get them out of your head, you are obsessed with them. That’s not a crush. Seriously wanting to be with a person (celebrity or not) is not a crush. What you’re describing is an obsession.

chelle21689's avatar

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/03/my-married-crush-_n_1465553.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1315488/ROWAN-PELLINGS-SEX-ADVICE-Am-I-bad-wife-having-crushes-men.html

These are just a couple of articles. Not necessarily the forums and posts I saw.

Crush to me is different definition then…seekingwolf seem to kinda put it down how I think it. Crushing=having feelings/infatuated with that person. You know, when you
get those lovey feelings in he honeymoon stage.

tinyfaery's avatar

No one knows the mind or heart of another, nor does anyone else have ownership of what another thinks or feels.

Married, not married, engaged or together in some way does not mean that you are prohibited from having certain thought and feelings. It’s actions that define a person, not whatever is going on inside.

I will never understand the idea that being in a relationship somehow equals owning another person, their thoughts and emotions. How sad.

I’ve been married 13 years and we have managed to stay together without all these rules and restrictions.

fluthernutter's avatar

I think it depends on your definition of a crush. I’ve had a few crushes on some jellies. Doesn’t mean I want to be with them or that I put them on some kind of pedestal. I just think they’re awesome.

It would be kind of a bummer if being married meant that you couldn’t appreciate other people’s awesomeness.

fluthernutter's avatar

FYI Appreciating someone’s awesomeness is not intended as a euphemism.

JLeslie's avatar

I don’t think a crush is ok. I think flirting now and then is ok, that’s a different thing. A crush, as you pointed out, takes mental focus away from your partner. It’s emotional cheating.

jca's avatar

I think different people have different definitions of the word “crush.” I think @Earthbound_Misfit hit the nail on the head with what I think of as a crush. Thinking someone is cute or sexy is a crush. Thoughts and emotions can’t be controlled and are not always based on logic. Also, remember, when you are referring to married people, sometimes couples stay together but may grow apart for various reasons. They may love each other to the moon but maybe they’re bored or whatever. I would think it’s hard to pass judgment when you and I both have never been in that situation, @chelle21689.

keobooks's avatar

While I’m in my mid 40s, my brain is sometimes convinced I’m still 20. I’ve developed mini crushes on guys that I’m old enough to be their mother. I wouldn’t have anything in common with them, and they’d be totally creeped out to discover the crush. The crushes have lasted for about an hour or two.

I don’t tell my husband. It would just be mean. It’s just a nice daydream. I think the real “crush” isn’t really on the guy, but it’s the desire to be 20 again. Crushing on some sweet young thing makes me feel that way for a few minutes.

seekingwolf's avatar

@chelle21689 he’s mean to his fans?? :( Ignorance is bliss. I am going to pretend I didn’t hear that and I just keep thinking of him as Mr. Slight-Bad-Boy-Prince-Charming! hehe

Yeah, sounds like everyone has different ideas of what it means to have a “crush”. I dont’ consider finding someone attractive to be a “crush”. Then I’d have a lot of crushes!! More about infatuation and wanting to be with someone. I don’t really have that.

Do I think it’s appropriate to have crushes while in a relationship according to my definition. No, I don’t. I don’t think it’s “cheating” (you can’t really cheat just with your mind and no one else) but I think it can signify relationship issues or personal issues and it could possibly lead someone towards having an affair. If I were married and my husband told me or alluded to having an actual crush (ie, infatuation with someone, way more than just thinking that they were hot) then I would be bothered, yes. I wouldn’t get mad perse, but I would be concerned and rightfully so, in my mind.

If I developed a crush in a relationship, I would not tell my SO. Ever. I would work on extinguishing that crush immediately and distancing myself from that person, maybe looking at why I was feeling that way in the first place. Because for me, I don’t feel I want to be with someone unless I actually want to be. But that’s me.

Being in a relationship with someone does not give you “ownership” over their thoughts and feelings. They aren’t obliged to share everything with you, nor should they, that would be sort of weird. I think everyone should feel comfortable having some privacy in their lives despite being in a relationship, and that includes freedom of THOUGHT, which is a very basic thing. Once you go down the road of “thought police”, things become dangerous.

However, being concerned that a serious SO is infatuated/wanting to be with someone else (versus just finding them hot/attractive/sexy) is not a form of thought policing. It’s a concern that a genuine desire for someone and wanting to be with them will turn into actual cheating. It’s important that each partner is self aware and is willing to examine their own feelings and actions and to make sure that they don’t cheat and aren’t inadvertantly going down bad paths. That’s all.

the100thmonkey's avatar

Ah… the Western obsession with thoughtcrime.

There’s nothing wrong with finding someone attractive and enjoying spending time with that person if that is all it is.

I’m married. I’m also human – it neither means that I’ve had my eyes torn out nor that I’m incapable of enjoying anyone’s company but my wife’s. It doesn’t mean my relationship with my wife is “missing something”; it means that the other person is attractive and pleasant to spend time with.

It would be wrong to act on the attraction, in my view.

chelle21689's avatar

I agree seeking wolf. Glad you shared “my thoughts” for me lol

cheebdragon's avatar

As long as you never start a physical relationship with the person, what does it matter if you have a crush on them?

seekingwolf's avatar

@cheebdragon

Okay, let me ask you this. Let’s pretend you’re married to a guy (no idea if you are or not) and your husband develops a crush on a woman at work. Just a crush. He thinks she’s pretty, funny, etc. But he’d never act on it because he’s married to you, he says.

He texts her while he’s at home and she responds. He talks about his new friend, a lot. You know he has a crush on her by the way he gushes about her and how fun she is. He spends a lot of time thinking about her because he’s infatuated. He doesn’t really include you on his outings with her, because he reasons that you wouldn’t enjoy yourself. By why should you care, it’s just a friend, right? He eats lunch with her almost everyday. He gives her little gifts and she gives him gifts. They have “inside jokes” between just them. He texts and calls her a LOT. He spends so much time talking to her that maybe, just maybe, you feel some distance. Maybe this has gone too far, you say.

But when you ask him, he says you’re crazy, that it’s just a friend, that there is nothing wrong with having a super duper awesome friend that you have a crush on and texting her and hanging out with her often, because he hasn’t screwed her, so you need to shut up and stop being a Thought Police Officer.

Yeah, would you be okay with this? Don’t lie.

Let me say, I see nothing wrong with having opposite sex friends. I have them, and my exes had them too. Wasn’t a problem, no one was crushing on each other and spending all this time and energy into each other and being ridiculous.

So yeah, if that makes me a “Thought Police”, fine. I’d rather be alone than with a man with no boundaries, who is keen to spend oodles of time alone with a woman he’s infatuated with, and just wants the wife to Stfu. This is how most affairs start. Don’t kid yourselves.

tinyfaery's avatar

Again, married for 13 years and we both have friends of the same and opposite sexes. We see them without the other.

I talk to her about my friends and she talks to me about hers. No one is hiding anything. If she is, I wish her every happiness. I love her and want her to be happy. She doesn’t belong to me.

Poor heteros. You are taught to follow some sort of relationship rules, and gay people don’t have to.

cheebdragon's avatar

@seekingwolf paranoid much? What makes you think that a man who is being told by his wife that he can’t have friends that he likes too much, is going to be faithful anyway? You can’t control other people and you’re kidding yourself if you think you can prevent someone from cheating you.

I’ve never gotten along with women very well and most of my friends throughout life have been male. I would have a pretty boring life if I could only ever hang out with my spouse. I love him dearly but eventually we would run out of things to talk about.
Do you know how many of my male friends I have had sex with? None. Why? Because I have self control.

seekingwolf's avatar

Wow, did anyone read what I actually wrote instead of making grand assumptions? It has nothing to do with heteros either. Sad that gays have to keep bashing straights to make themselves feel better for some weird reason. If you don’t want any boundaries in your relationship, have at it. Don’t come crying to me when you get cheated on or feel neglected or jealous and your partner couldn’t care less. I said I have no issues with opposite sex friends as long as no one has a crush. My ex had a few female friends and would talk to them or get lunch with them. Same thing with me and my male friends as well as my female friends. It wasn’t a problem at all. We lived together but would go see our own friends and families because it’s important to have time away. I also took a lot of personal time.

Btw I think there is usually something wrong with people, men or women, who are unable to be friends with members of one sex, either opposite or the same. Just my experience.

The issue here is not having opposite sex friends. It’s having a crush on one of them and spending more time and emotional energy with them than your partner/family and that leads to problems. Yet, no one can talk about this without getting met with a chorus of YOU ARE JUST WRONG. NOTHING WRONG WITH FRIENDS.

no one answered my question, reread my scenario above. Would you feel comfortable with that? Yes or no.

For the record, I’ve never been cheated on, but have seen others go through infidelity. It’s very sad. My parents are together and faithful and my grandparents were together for 70 years. All ha/have opposite sex friends but have more open dialogue with their partners about the relationship. That’s how I was raised. I’d hate to be with someone who would want me to stfu and not talk about anything and “as long as I’m not screwing anyone, stfu”. I have taken care to pick quality partners who are self aware and feel the same way as I do. Have a bunch of friends, do whatever, but no crushes. It’s very simple. No one can prevent infidelity entirely but you can reduce your chances by picking quality partners and talking about boundaries.

Experts are on my side as well here. I’ve known marriage counselors and they feel the same as me. What I am talking about is known as “an emotional affair” and it can be damaging. 2 people crushing on each other and acting like lovers but without the sex. No, it’s not just friends.

If/when you experience infidelity, either in your relationship or someone close to you, you will understand. You don’t now. That’s okay. You don’t understand but maybe someday you will.

jca's avatar

@seekingwolf: I think there’s a big difference between a crush and an emotional affair. A crush is when you think someone is cute, sexy, pretty handsome, whatever. An emotional affair, what you are referring to that the couples’ therapists talked to you about, is something different. It involves more contact that could lead to sexting and mutual longing for the other. Having a crush on someone does not equate to exchanging phone numbers and contacting them.

seekingwolf's avatar

@jca I think I define “crush” a bit differently than others. Finding someone cute, handsome, sexy, etc. is not a crush in my eyes. I find many people attractive and some people I find sexy.That doesn’t mean I have a crush on them, I don’t. To me, a crush is about having an infatuation with someone. Much more than just finding them attractive.

jca's avatar

@seekingwolf: Yes, but not texting, calling, etc. That’s beyond crush.

zenvelo's avatar

So, @jca and @seekingwolf , it’s all part of a continuum:

Attracted—-> Crush infatuation—-> emotional affair—-> physical affair.

For me, the infatuation component of a crush is what crosses the line, because at that point one is focusing more on the crush object than on a spouse.

seekingwolf's avatar

@zenvelo Yeah pretty much, you get what I’m saying. The attraction part doesn’t bother me at all. It’s the infatuation part.

jca's avatar

I get that, too. If those involved avoid flirting excessively and seeking more communication, then it remains “crush” and does not go further.

If someone thinks someone else is cute, that’s one thing. If one starts coming around, flirting and complimenting the other and saying let’s get together, that’s beyond a crush. To me, the line is black and white.

cheebdragon's avatar

@seekingwolf so it’s okay to spend time with friends, text them, buy them gifts, have secrets with them, go to dinner or go on a trip with them, as long as you think they are ugly and/or they are the same sex? Your description of an emotional affair sounds like what a lot of people would refer to as a best friend. You tell eachother everything, go to the movies, dancing, weekend trip to Vegas…..but you don’t have sex.

seekingwolf's avatar

@cheebdragon

Sooo you’re saying that you would be A-OK with your husband doing what I described above? Ooookay then, that’s different. To each his own.

And yeah, it’s different if it’s a best friend that you’re not infatuated with. Really, I would be very skeptical that you’d be pleased with your husband doing this. Really, I would. What I described is an emotional affair and many psychologists have to help couples deal with the fallout.

So you’re okay with your husband taking a weekend trip to Vegas with a female that he keeps burbling about? And you’re going to believe him when he says that they didn’t have sex? hahahahahaha Oh man, that’s rich.

ibstubro's avatar

@keobooks The Cougar! lol TOO funny.

cheebdragon's avatar

@seekingwolf I’ve been that girl you are so afraid of your spouse hanging out with. lol, I’ve had half a dozen females stalk my house because they thought I was fucking their boyfriend. It’s sad because if any of them had taken the time to get to know me instead of just immediately asking their men to stop talking to me, they would have realized that I was the last person in the world to be concerned about. While they were watching my house and calling my phone to harass me, their boyfriends were telling me about how they had hooked up with some random chick at a club or a party. Pathetic huh?

You can’t prevent or predict when someone will cheat, and by asking your spouse to avoid people they may be attracted to, will only work against you.

JLeslie's avatar

@cheebdragon The girls were right, their SO’s were cheating, just not with you. They know the signs and symptoms of a cheater. The men probably would have had sex with you if you were up for it.

I can’t remember the name of that Rabbi who has written books on marriage, but I saw him a while back and one of the things he said was that a man ready to cheat and a man who is cheating has the same symptoms. I agree with that. It wasn’t unreasonable that the women suspected he was cheating when he was with you. It’s more about the boyfriend than you. He is emotionally withdrawing from the relationship, his SO knows it, and is feeling insecure.

The girls aren’t crazy, the guys are asses.

seekingwolf's avatar

@cheebdragon so, you’d go to Vegas alone with a married man? Ick. Seriously?

I wouldn’t marry someone with such poor values that he’d think it would be keen to go alone to Vegas with someone like you. That is icky. I would divorce him.

You may fancy yourself as a “cool girl” who is just so-totally-awesome but those sleezeballs would have had sex with you (and Hey, maybe they did, I don’t know the whole story) and you are kidding yourself if you think they are “just friends”. Do you get some sick ego boost from having these women be mad at you? Sounds like you might. You said you don’t female friends? Gee, I wonder why.
Why not be friends with both people in a couple? Why just the man?

It’s downright inappropriate for a married man to go to Vegas alone with a female “friend” that he is attracted to. He shouldn’t be texting or calling her at all hours while ignoring his spouse and forming a little emotional affair to the detriment of his marriage.

It’s a matter of time before you’re the Other Woman, and yeah, if your husband pulled this crap, I doubt you’d be too happy.

seekingwolf's avatar

Why would you want to be friends with someone who is such a scumbag anyway? I mean really, what’s up with that?

The man I currently play badminton with hits on me and clearly wants to sleep with me, he’s married with kids. It’s totally gross. I keep playing with him until I can find another partner because I enjoy the exercise and just keep shutting him down (stupid man I made my thoughts known but he still persists) but I will drop him like a rock once I find someone else. I couldn’t fathom actually wanting to be friends with a sleeze like that. Why would you?

cheebdragon's avatar

@JLeslie Stalking someone is crazy as fuck.

@seekingwolf Lmfao, Do you have mental problems or just severe control issues? I don’t know what life is like in the fantasy land you’ve created in your mind, but here in the real world, we don’t control what our friends do, I never said that I agreed with their actions, but I’m not going to end a 10–15 year friendship just because we have slightly different morals.
Do you not realize how fucking batshit crazy it is to think someone is sick because they associate with people who have cheated? do you hate African Americans, gays or Jewish people? Because that is the same kind of mentality you’re exibiting.

What makes you an authority on how and why people cheat? You said you have no personal experience with it, beyond mentioning a conversation you had with a therapist or a friend who was cheated on. if your knowledge is based on Dr Phil episodes, you should know that Dr Phil is a hypocrite.

seekingwolf's avatar

@cheebdragon

You go alone with Vegas with married men or you think that’s acceptable. You also can’t be friends with women apparently. Sweetheart, I’m not the one with problems, you clearly are. I am friends with males and females and I respect their relationships and boundaries. I am not in support of emotional affairs which you clearly are. I thought you were married…?

And no, I don’t have friends who are callous and cruel enough time to have sex with others without their SO knowing and exposing them to disease and deceit. If you want to surround yourself with cheater men to boost your ego because they will be trying to cheat with you (duh, they’re cheaters), fine. But not everyone is under obligation to act like that. Am I under obligation to give cheaters a chance?

Too bad not everyone has moral fiber. But hey, you seem happy to play Other Woman while vying for the attention of married men, so have at it. I feel bad for the women that you demonize.

So not liking cheaters is the same as not liking African Americans? What? You can’t be serious.

Since when is it wrong to judge people for their actions? That’s a new one for me.

Thought I was allowed to judge by content of character and not skin colour. Apparently that’s not allowed either!

seekingwolf's avatar

For the record, I actually find it pretty easy to find people who aren’t selfish and deceitful and are cheaters. I had two friends who cheated and while I’m still friends with them, I don’t respect them and I have sort of distanced myself.

Again, you may not agree, but I am under no obligation to let these people into my life. It’s kind of crazy that you think that everyone ought to turn a blind eye like you do.

cheebdragon's avatar

1. I never said that I went away with married men. I was pointing out that without a physical relationship, time spent with someone you might be attracted to, isn’t much different than time spent with friends of the same sex.
2. I have very little tolerance for jealousy, drama, gossip and competitiveness that comes with female friends. After about 100 times of being asked “does this outfit make me look fat?” I just started saying yes so they wouldn’t want to ask me again. I have no interest in fashion And I didn’t care who likes whom, I would rather be hanging out with the guys playing video games than playing dress up with girls. Unfortunately, when you don’t give a fuck about impressing the guys, they would rather hang out with you than deal with whiney attention whores and when girls see that, they turn into jealous bitches.
After the first 2–3 female stalkers I decided most women were crazy and not worth the time or effort anymore. I dislike fake people and have no sympathy for stupid shit.

3. Women are more likely to have emotional affairs, and most men don’t seem to care who they fuck, no attraction required. Very few people actually want to get caught cheating, so if he is mentioning a girl he knows to you and is willing to talk about her, she probably isn’t a threat. It’s the ones that he doesnt mention at all and secretly texts that you should worry about.
If you don’t want to get caught, random hookups are the best way to avoid that, hence the popularity of sites like ashleymadison.com.
4. All of those stalker girls knew of me because their boyfriends told them who I was, there was never any deception going on, they just weren’t smart enough to get to know me instead of assuming I was the threat.

cheebdragon's avatar

I don’t fuck friends and every single male friend that I have will tell you that fact because I have made it crystal clear. Im not leading them on or encouraging their behavior.
It’s also worth mentioning that none of those girls are still in relationships with any of my friends.

JLeslie's avatar

@cheebdragon I don’t think it’s stalking when you follow your cheating or lying SO to know for sure so you can feel confident about leaving. It’s too bad women can’t just leave because they are being treated badly, but in a long term relationship it can be difficult. If the guy you are with, and I do mean you, lied to his girlfriend about where he is, then I think if she needs to follow him to know for sure then go for it.

That is not the same as stalking someone a person is obsessed with, or wants to be with the person in their fantasy mind. That is following someone so you can tell them to fuck off or get the hell out.

Your behavior helps men destroy their relationships if they are lying or not including their wives. Why aren’t you hanging out with their wives also?

I used to go to dinner with a guy friend now and then when my husband lived out of the country. Never at his house though, and my husband would be invited without question if he was in town. So, I’m not saying opposite sex can’t be friends, but there are lines that can be crossed.

Earthbound_Misfit's avatar

@JLeslie, I’m unclear where @cheebdragon said women who follow their partners to confirm their suspicions were stalkers? Can you tell me where that is? I’ve searched the thread, but I can’t find it (it is a long thread now though).

Also, I think she said she’s known these men for a long time. So perhaps the friendship with the guy pre-dates their relationship with other women and she said the gfs hadn’t bothered to get to know her but instead had just perceived her as a threat. That was my take on what @cheeb said anyway.

cheebdragon's avatar

@JLeslie They weren’t lying to them, that’s how the girls knew where I lived. One girl actually sat in the library with binoculars and watched my house for a few hours. The librarian was my next door neighbor and after she realized what the girl was watching, she kicked her out several different times. Watching a house for longer than an hour is not normal behavior. Sitting in a car across the street from my house all night with one of their homegirls and yelling threats at me everytime I went out to smoke a cigarette, is not a normal behavior. Calling my phone 20x in a day to harass me and leave insane threatening messages, is not normal.

JLeslie's avatar

@Earthbound_Misfit About 7 posts up @cheebdragon wrote ”@JLeslie Stalking someone is crazy as fuck.”

@cheebdragon I agree that is not normal behavior, but if that same guy is a cheater he is also adding to her craziness. He is an asshole. If he is a cheater and he has female friends who he tells his SO he is going to hang out with and his SO is not invited then he is an obnoxious, dangle it in her face, gets off on how he can have power over women, ego maniac, fuckhead. The women who will tolerate that for any length of time are more than likely to do some crazy behavior.

jca's avatar

If I were married, I wouldn’t expect or appreciate my husband taking trips with female friends. I agree there are lines that can be crossed. Yes, of course if someone wants to cheat they can do so with less time and space than an overnight trip, but I don’t think trips to Las Vegas or wherever are appropriate. I know most women, if not all, that I know that are married wouldn’t put up with that. “Where’s Dan?” “Oh, he went away to Las Vegas with Kathy.” I can’t imagine that happening for most couples I know, unless they have an open relationship.

Staying outside someone’s house for hours is probably the women’s way of feeling something wasn’t quite right and wanting to confirm it. Maybe they felt like they were crazy but they got these little cues from the guy and they felt something was up. Yelling at the female is inappropriate for sure and makes no sense, as it would give up that they were there.

I had (have) friendships with some men who I knew before I knew their wives, and then I became friends with the wives, too. I wouldn’t expect that the wife would be ok with us taking trips overnight, nor would I want to take a trip overnight with just the guy. If I did, I would think any spouse or significant other would be welcome to join, mine or his.

cheebdragon's avatar

@jca but if “Jim” wanted to go to Vegas with some of his buddies for a “guys weekend” or whatever, you would be okay with that, right?

The girls were invited (at least up until they started acting aggressive) and it’s not like I was alone with their boyfriends, most of the time there were other friends with us.

jca's avatar

@cheebdragon: My bad. That was not the impression I got from the way you wrote it. When you wrote it, it sounded like it was a “couples trip” with just you and the guy. Yes, if “Jim” went away with his buddies, I would be ok with that.

I am willing to bet that if you took a poll of married people and asked if they would be ok with their spouse going away with a good friend of the opposite sex, just the two of them, for the weekend, they would be opposed to it. It would actually be a good Fluther question. The parameters would have to specify just the two people.

JLeslie's avatar

The girls were invited at least until they started acting aggressive.

Oy.

cheebdragon's avatar

@JLeslie I have no desire to hang out with angry bitches….especially when their anger is directed at me. Life is too short.

JLeslie's avatar

@cheebdragon You don’t seem to be understanding the dynamic that is going on. The whole thing is dysfunctunal. They are aggressve, because the men basically abuse them, and unfortunately a lot of women will put up with that for a long time, or even see it as normal. The men keep those women, because they can have their cake and eat it too. You are very smug on the outside looking in, or so you think, because you don’t have sex with them, but you fail to see those men are horrible to the women they should be most caring towards. I have male friends who I know will cheat on their SO’s and I have some relatives who do it, so I am not saying I cut men like that from my life altogether, but I do know how they screw themselves and their relationship, because of their actions. I don’t understand why you don’t see the men you talk about as part of the cause of the women’s desperation and hysteria?

It is a predictable cycle that the men like. They make their wives or SO’s suspicious, the women act a little crazy, the men use their craziness as an excuse to be with other women, which makes the women even more desperate. The women start doing things to catch the man. The man catches her doing it and accuses her of being awful for not trusting him. She goes through a head trip trying to decide to trust her instincts or him, etc. etc.

Or, a couple can be together that each partner actually is trustworthy. Then they trust each other even when they spend some time with people from the opposite sex.

chelle21689's avatar

@seekingwolf it’s ok, I see and understand your side. I agree.

cheebdragon's avatar

@JLeslie I have no control over the way my friends treat their girlfriends.
You can’t control other people, but you can control what your reaction will be. The girls had the ability to walk away or end the relationship, they just chose not to. No one forced them to stalk my house or threaten me, they made that choice on their own.

JLeslie's avatar

I would do the same thing if I needed to know. I wouldn’t threaten you or anything like that, but I might wait and catch him in the lie so I can finally tell him to fuck off.

I would not be stalking you, I would be following him.

I recommend you try to surround yourself with better people. I don’t mean you dump all your friends, but it sounds to me that it is a regular thing for you to hang out with men who are assholes to women. I know that life. Those men can be a lot of fun.

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