In your opinion as vehicles get easier, and easier to operate do you think people become less aware of actual driving, and whats going on around them in traffic?

Haven’t you asked this question before?

Not quite in this form, why does that bother you?
as long as it’s not asked one right after the other, I find no fault and may want new users opinion as well as the old timers.

Does it have to bother me for me to comment on the recurring theme?

No.

Not in Deutschland.

She drives me crazy, ooh, ooh…like no one else, ooh, ooh…

I think automatic cars were the beginning of Americans eating in their cars and focusing less on the road than other countries. You can’t hold something in your hand if you need to shift gears with it.

Also, the American obsession with SUV’s and pick up trucks, anything high off the ground, has made roads less safe in my opinion.

As far as the other gadgets in cars these days; no, I don’t think they cause drivers to pay less attention or drive worse than before the technology. Thank goodness they have back up cameras and alarms for that now. My husband’s two year old cousin was backed over and killed by a family friend. A camera and alerting system probably would have prevented it.

More distracted driving is due to the increase of technology around us: smart phones, talking phones, etc.

I think that technology doesn’t cause stupidity, it merely allows idiots to be more obvious. I think people are just as unaware and mindless as they always were, we (unlike many other nations) are just lax enough to give them drivers licenses.

On a somewhat related note, I do think that computers getting easier to operate is a serious issue. People wouldn’t leave their credit card laying around, but they think nothing of doing online banking over unsecure wifi. And how many people do you know that would show a picture of themselves drunk, topless, and taking bong hits on a day they called in sick to their boss? That number has risen since Facebook came around due to lay-people not grasping certain truths about technology.

@JLeslie I drive stick,yet I still have a free hand much of the time. Then again, like old V-8s, the 4A-LC has a pretty wide powerband with good low-end and a fairly flat torque curve.

@jerv It depends what roads you’re driving obviously. I usually live in fairly densely populated areas so I’m shifting quite a bit. No matter what two hands are more necessary than one in a manual car.

@JLeslie: Good point about eating in a standard shift car. I used to drive standard shift in an urban city, and it was very hard to eat or drink while driving (not drink alcohol, obviously, I’m referring to soda or water). I think longer commutes are a reason why standard shift is no longer popular. It’s harder for someone to take their breakfast in the car with them in a standard shift.

Here’s @SQUEEKY2‘s original question, asked in 9/14, similar but not the same (unless there’s another one that I’m missing):

http://www.fluther.com/175557/the-way-technology-is-advancing-the-computer-driven-car-is-becoming/

Manual cars are on their way out. There are even Porsches you can’t get in a manual shift, because they say the newer technology is better.

@JLeslie: Also, the manual transmissions I’ve had had always needed clutch replacement at some point, whereas right now I have a Civic that has over 210,000 miles on it and has not once needed an automatic tranny or anything similar (knock on wood, no major issues with this car yet, miracle!).

When I drove a manual transmission as a young woman; once the car was in 4th gear and purring along, I was always able to snack while driving, if I felt like it. And I often did.

I would not be able to leave the house in winter without my AWD Forester; the height usually enables me to see over the snow drifts. However, this winter the drifts are so high, I would need a fire truck for decent visibility.

@JLeslie I-5. North through Everett isn’t exactly rural. But since I neither need to rev my engine high to move nor freak out when I hit 3000 RPM, I can get by with my left foot with only occasional shifts between 1st and 2nd in town. And when not caught in traffic, I may go 30 miles (most of my commute) without shifting once. Also, an ‘89 Golf can launch on a hill in 3rd if you do it right.
So it does depend on the car (Hondas are geared too narrow to do it well) and driver (many refuse to rev the engine high enough to even get into the powerband and short-shift), but I personally haven’t had any issues.
As for on their way out, not really. Many use clutches instead of torque converters, so they’re actually computer-controlled manuals.

@jca I’ve seen clutches last >250k. Automatics require enough added maintenance to make it a wash; my stick has never needed a flush.

I can start in 3rd too, but I try not to. I don’t eat or drink in my cars (except in very rare occasion) so it’s not an issue.

@jerv: I’m sure that clutches have lasted more than 250k miles but I’m sure you know it’s not typical.

@JLeslie I wasn’t trying with that one, but the shifter bushings were so bad that there was no telling 1st from 3rd until you let out the clutch. As for the other, I don’t worry about staining the upholstery on a <$1000 car that was over 25 years old when I got it.

@jca True. From experience and observation, I’d say 150–175k is more typical. That’s still longer than most people own a car these days. And given the issues I’ve had with slushboxes (especially American cars from the ‘90s) that totally immobilized the car where a stick would at least be able to limp to a garage or get you home, I still see it as a wash.

I’ve started in 3rd many a times unintentionally. In FL it’s pretty easy to get away with it since it’s so flat. Obviously, downhill is the easiest, but what I’m emphasizing is rarely starting up hill.

@JLeslie Florida has hills?

@jca

”...I have a Civic that has over 210,000 miles on it and has not once needed an automatic tranny or anything similar (knock on wood, no major issues with this car yet, miracle!)”

I have a 1997 Civic EX that has over 120,000, that’s been very trouble-free except for some window movement issues.

Based on your car’s history, apparently my car will continue to be t-f for about another ten years- nice!

My clutch in my small pick up, is still strong and have over 250,000ks on it.
My big truck has no problem reaching 900,000ks on the clutch.

@jerv I said FL is pretty flat.

Ya know this question wasn’t really about manual, or automatic transmissions, it was more about the gadgets they are putting on the vehicles lately such as it applying the brakes and other type goodies, and are those gadgets allowing people to dumb down when driving?

^^ I guess one could argue cars being able to parallel park will mean people will lose that skill.
Question is does it matter?

The argument is that a lot of the gadgets do things better than human beings. The antiskid and ABS and warnings about getting too close to other cars. I think it’s still important to know how to control a car well and drive safely.

We have friends who teach driving skills. They have the students practice using the ABS. Purposely drive at a fast speed and stomp on the brakes. Basically, test some of the limits of the car.

People who care about driving safely and being able to handle a car care just as much with or without all the gadgets I think.

@SQUEEKY2 Automatic transmissions used to be in the same league as things like tying the brake system to a collision-avoidance radar. Both are systems that automate a process that were formerly handled by the driver, and their introduction reduced the amount of skill required to operate an automobile.
Heck, there was a time when even having ignition timing controlled by vacuum advance on the distributor instead of a lever on the steering column was considered “dumbing down”, but now that cars generally have electronic ignition, a lot of people have never even seen a distributor at all.

@JLeslie Quite so. I bet that many people would not be able to drive my car at all, especially in the winter. Not only does it have three pedals, it also lacks ABS, so you won’t stop if you stomp on that middle pedal, you’ll skid, possibly with a little spinning action. Furthermore, it also lacks fuel injection, and I think you know how much fun old carberated engines are to start on a cold winter day. And get this; my windows open with a crank instead of a toggle switch!

But apparently fuel injection, ABS, and slushboxes are not considered “gadgets” by people who seem to assume that all cars have and have always had those things.

@jerv I’m just thinking about my dad’s car when I was a little girl—it had a choke.

I’m so used to pumping my brakes I almost never engage my ABS. My husband says I should practice slamming on my brakes. Not that I am in that situation often.

It would be interesting to know what people think are gadgets in cars. I still think electric windows are gadgets. I’m that old I guess.

@SQUEEKY2 What about all the buttons you can get in steering wheels to change radio stations and give commands to your car? I think those gadgets probably make driving safer.

@JLeslie I would have to add anything that helps keep your eyes on the road ahead, would make driving safer.
AND anything that lets you take your eyes from the road would NOT.

@JLeslie Mine does have automatic choke but it’s quirky. You need to pump the gas before starting the engine…but only if it’s cold,otherwise you’ll flood it. As for ABS, I’ve used it in the winter and you may run into the same issue my mother did. She pumps ABS, which is totally wrong. ABS is one of those things that your only shot at survival is to trust the computer, hold the pedal to the floor, and let it do it’s thing. Doing like my mother does could kill you.

I think successful driving means being marginally aware of about 50 different things at one time, including mirrors, gas feed, brake, control panel, etc, etc.
Eliminating any one or a number of those points of attention can lure a longer-term driver into a false sense of security and cause them to lower their guard in an area that the car is not covering.
I remember a lot of people in the 70’s (when I came of age) bemoaning the loss of the standard transmission because they thought the new drivers weren’t really ‘in tune’ with their cars. They hated automatic’s because their attention wandered. That’s the danger with new technology today, IMO.

@jerv Not automatic choke, my dad used to let out the choke. I think that’s the right terminology.

@JLeslie You are correct. A lot of older cars had manual chokes but my car isn’t quite that old. My car was built in that gap between manual chokes being commonplace and choke not being an issue because of fuel injection replacing carberators.

@ibstubro Pretty much. I have to wonder how many people actually do mistake cruise control (the dangerous new driving technology in 1970s RVs) for autopilot and not bothering to steer though. On the one hand it seems like an urban legend, then I see the way people “drive” around Seattle and it suddenly seems not only plausible, but actually common that there are drivers that are. Just. That. Dumb.

I’m not old but my first car that I learnt to drive in was manual, no ABS, no fuel injection, only AM radio and cassette tapes, crank windows, no central locking etc so I feel more comfortable driving with those things. I don’t like driving automatic, before you even get to all those other gadgets, because I feel like I don’t have enough control over the car and I will get lazy. Automatic and cruise control? No thanks. I feel like I would fall asleep at the wheel without the constant awareness of my foot on the peddle and the speedo.

I guess I can see the benefits of automatic when you’re very first learning to drive because you’ll be paying more attention to the road and other cars around you than worrying about changing gear (because that was a bitch to learn I’ll admit) but after that I’m not sure.

I don’t really have an opinion on the reversing cameras and cars being able to parallel park themselves because neither me nor my parents will never be able to afford a car that can do that and no one in my extended family has one either so I’m afraid I have to leave my answer to this question from the perspective that I consider automatic and cruise control being newfangled gadgets.

I will say that I agree that reversing cameras and such can be good things in circumstances such as @JLeslie mentioned (I’m so sorry that happened), but I also think that technology isn’t perfect and we shouldn’t trust all these things without being also able to override with our judgement, and having good judgement requires good driving knowledge and awareness in the first place, which people might not get if they learn to drive with all this technology already in place. Perhaps there could be laws to learn to drive without gadgets before you can then move on to more technologically advanced cars.

I am just thinking of a story about an airplane crash that I read in one of my classes, that the plane was programmed to not let the flaps be put down when the plane was travelling at a certain speed or something, to stop the pilot putting them down in mid flight rather than take off or landing. Anyway, it was a wet and windy day and the plane came into land but the wheels were hydroplaning on the runway meaning the plane wasn’t able to slow down, and it was still above the speed that the flaps could be put down. The pilot wasn’t able to put the flaps down to slow down the plane when the brakes couldn’t, even though it was already on the runway, so the plane crashed at the end of the runway. In that case the pilot’s judgement should have been trusted over the programmed technology. However, in the case that a pilot’s judgement can’t be trusted, he might put the flaps out mid flight at full speed so that’s why that safety mechanism is in place. You’d hope that pilots would have far more vigorous training and would never do that, but you might not be able to guarantee that with a car driver who has always relied on technology to do everything for them they would be able to implement proper judgement on the road when technological programming doesn’t cover every circumstance.

Not really sure what my final answer is after all that, sorry for the rambling.

No problem @shrubbery I sorta get where your coming from,I think all these wonderful gadgets is just another step at taking the driver out of the equation, and for ¾ of the driving public that is a scary thought.

@shrubbery Cruise control is another good example. I don’t like when my husband uses cruise control in heavy traffic or for long periods of time. I think it increases chances of road hypnosis (I have no data to back that up not have I ever read anything about it, it’s just my opinion) and I see that my husband is more prone to getting close to cars in front if him when the cruise control is on.

As far as the backing up, it should probably be in the drivers ed test that you cannot see small objects immediately behind your car. They should probably not only show the scary crash dummy video, but also hitting pedestrians video.

I don’t think most people think where is the toddler or the dog before they back up. I remember once when my husband and I were hunting for our first home a little boy walked into the street in between parked cars and a car starting driving a little too fast down the road. The mother went shrieking into the street with her hand waving. My husband was like, “Gawd, what’s wrong with that women?” Seriously? That’s why young men have high car insurance rates.

I know more than one person who likes to drive SUV’s or trucks because they are accident prone. Think about it. They are driving vehicles that make it harder to see and they are accident prone. A lot of them say they like to be high up to see better while drive. While driving yes, but you can always try to keep a safe distance while driving. None of these friends are having accidents rear ending someone while driving 50+ down the road. It’s local traffic accidents or misjudging objects around them.