Social Question

Esedess's avatar

Man catches a 14 year old trying to stealing his wallet and disciplines him with a whoopin. Right or wrong?

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

188 Answers

ucme's avatar

All kinds of wrong

johnpowell's avatar

I want to beat the shit out of your kids.

talljasperman's avatar

What if the theif was 30 or over 65 would it be normal then? What did the kid need the money for? Was he hungry or just wanted the new x box game.

Here2_4's avatar

I don’t disagree with the man. Kids run wild believing there are no consequences. The man offered him a choice. The kid could have taken him to his parents, so they could deal with it. What would the cops do? Stealing the wallet should be as big a deal for the thief as it is for the victim. For this kid, it got real, real fast. The man did not torture the kid and leave him for dead. He made the kid regret his actions. That kid will not steal again, but he followed up, promising to keep an eye on the boy, and help him with school.

longgone's avatar

^ “That kid will not steal again.”

If one whipping was all it took, I doubt stealing would be as ubiquitous.

“The kid could have taken him to his parents, so they could deal with it.”

If my child would rather get beaten by a stranger than come to me, I would worry.

elbanditoroso's avatar

If it isn’t his own kid, it is assault. Possibly child abuse.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

Just give him a time out, let him sit in the corner for 15 minutes thinking about what he did wrong, then let him on his way. ~~
I think it was the right application but too late in applying it, belt leather is only effective if you get to them under 8 and establish crime equals a soft behind.

Here2_4's avatar

I am curious to hear from the boy, now, and down the road.

kritiper's avatar

A spanking would be a whole lot better than breaking the kid’s nose, but not as effective. The kid probably gets ass-chewings at home so anything the guy might say whose wallet was almost swiped wouldn’t help at all.

Dutchess_III's avatar

That whole thing was weird.

Coloma's avatar

Ya know, that was hard to watch but I think it certainly is going to make a lasting impression on that boy. I think the man giving the kid the whoppin’ is a decent guy, and who knows, could be a pinnacle moment for the little thievin’ heathen. lol
I am not a fan of corporal punishment on a regular basis but there is something to be said for a good old fashioned whoopin’ on occasion.

talljasperman's avatar

Also he was found guilty with out a trial. We can’t have vigilantes whipping anyone they please.

Coloma's avatar

@talljasperman I think he was caught red handed so no trial needed just the whoopin.’

rockfan's avatar

Won’t be surprised if this kid grows up to be a mean and violent person.

Darth_Algar's avatar

Anyone who did that to my kid would answer to me. And, frankly speaking, the “adult” in that video just comes across as a bully who probably looks for any excuse to take out his own violent tendencies on other people.

Mimishu1995's avatar

Looks like Dirty Harry at work. I think that will do. He did the teaching for the kid’s parents, if he has any. And that would be a lesdon for other kids who plan to steal anything too.

You get too soft with him, and he may steal again. He needs to learn the hard way.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Mimishu1995 “He needs to learn the hard way.”

And what this kid has learned here is that violence is an acceptable reaction when you feel wronged. He’s also learned that it’s ok for a group of people to pick on individuals less able to stick up for themselves. That is the lesson that’s been taught here.

Here2_4's avatar

Obviously, nobody here besides me, and maybe @Coloma have had to replace driver’s license, social security card, cancel/reissue bank cards, say goodbye forever to pics of deceased friends/relatives.
Also, I can tell by some answers that people answered without even viewing the video in question.
Got news for the world here. Violence happens. It is not entirely taught. It is there. There IS a difference between punishment and mindless, random violence.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Here2_4

Because if we had we’d “obviously” feel different right? Wrong. Don’t make ignorant assumptions. And if this were about punishment he would have taken the kid to the nearest police station and reported the crime. He didn’t do that however. He instead chose for him and his little group (people always like to act big and tough in a group) to lash and humiliate the kid, film it and put in on the internet. This wasn’t about punishment, this was about the man feeling big by reducing someone else.

bestbroseph's avatar

Well he is 14 and should know what’s right and what’s wrong. When I was fourteen I would’ve expected to get my ass kicked if I tried to steal someone’s wallet.

Here2_4's avatar

@Darth_Algar , no, not because of how many disagree with me. I expected that from a bunch of whiney, pampered babies. I am talking about the ignorant assumptions made in other responses, which clearly show they did not view the video. Touch my stuff, I will kick your ass. Old enough to steal, old enough to face the wrath.

Mimishu1995's avatar

@Darth_Algar And you say that letting him go will teach him that stealing is wrong? It will teach the kid that next time he wants to steal he needs to do that more discreetly.

Maybe the man didn’t report the crime to the police because it would create problems to the kid and the parents. Getting your ass hurt and getting forced to paid some fines or going to prision, what would you choose?

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Mimishu1995

Where did I say anything about letting the kid go? Oh, that’s right, I didn’t. And no, the kid’s not going to go to prison over a stolen wallet. Perhaps he’d spend a little time in juvy, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing (and, in fact, would probably go a lot farther in helping this kid than a belting will).

Here2_4's avatar

Given @Mimishu1995 ‘s foreign language, prison might be the only word she has regarding any sort of holding facility in English.

Here2_4's avatar

I knew a boy sent to juvy. He learned how to make pipe bombs there.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Here2_4 “Given @Mimishu1995 ‘s foreign language, prison might be the only word she has regarding any sort of holding facility in English.”

Fair enough.

Mimishu1995's avatar

Yeah, thanks @Here2_4 :)

@Darth_Algar But at least the kid can get back to his normal life after the incident. How about if he went to the juvy? He had to drop his daily life activities, schooling for example, for some time. And as @Here2_4 said, juvy inmates can even poison his mind further.

I think the shame after being beaten and the shame for being someone coming out from a juvy after stealing is just equally the same. He’s fourteen years old anyway.

Darth_Algar's avatar

I knew a boy who learned how to make pipe bombs in school. Too bad anecdotes aren’t valid arguments.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Mimishu1995

Juvy has schooling and educational programs. The point is to straighten kids out before they commit worse crimes.

Kropotkin's avatar

Instead of punishing him for stealing his wallet, he could have praised him and told him to keep trying.

With encouragement and practice, he could become an accomplished wallet stealer, and one who doesn’t get caught.

What I’m saying is is that he could have a career in banking and finance.

Here2_4's avatar

I think even that suggestion is superior to screeching out angry name calling phrases and stomping one’s feet while they wait for the police to come.

Darth_Algar's avatar

“Angry name calling”

Because lashing someone with a belt isn’t an act of anger at all.

Here2_4's avatar

I was being facetious, pointing out how impotent is your solution.

Pandora's avatar

If people listened they will hear that he agreed to the corporal punishment because he said that his mom said if he was caught stealing one more time, she was going to send him to the boys club. Which is probably a volunteer detention center for trouble teens.

He also said he was going to give the kid his number so he could follow up on him and mentor him away from trouble. He didn’t want the kid to end up in jail and believes he is headed there. For those who think this is going to make him violent, don’t think for one moment that worse doesn’t happen in those centers. Some of those kids just take out their aggression on other kids. This man did not sound like he was out of control of his actions. He wanted to make it hurt enough for the kid to remember. He could’ve handed him over to the cops but if this was a 3rd or 2nd strike, he could’ve gotten juvie. People rarely come out of juvie all fine. If anything they pick up new skills and often more violent. Sounds like he didn’t want the kid to go to jail for a minor offense.

This was hard to watch. But what would wait for him in juvie would be way worse. And the kid made the choice.

bestbroseph's avatar

Bit also going to juvy has an affect. Labeling of children happens all the time in social communities such as schools. He’d be that juvy kid, a problem child. And we all know how much good counseling can be for 14 year olds when it comes to behavior.(waste of money) they already know everything.(in their eyes) now also lets stop and analyze this, as this thread is going nowhere. This kid, for one, took someone’s Wallet. Said person beat him. Now, the kid was fourteen. If it was a ten year old I’d see an issue. But fourteen is getting closer to adulthood. You should know what’s up by then. All these systems people mention, whose to day they will work. Whose to say as soon as this kid leaves juvy he doesn’t immediately do it again. He’s probably scared to try it again. And don’t go all politically correct on punishment. If I saw a teenager take my wallet I’d kick some ass. I wouldn’t hurt him too bad, just a punch or two, but enough to get my stolen property back and for him to go. That’s all. I’m not trying to punish, just want my stuff. That’s how I’d feel in that situation.

anniereborn's avatar

It’s not that man’s job to punish or educate or anything else with that child. He smacked the shit out of someone else’s kid, period. Whatever will make that kid stop stealing, I dunno. But that’s no answer. Is it acceptable becuz he beat a minor? What if they guy was over 21? Would that be okay?

Coloma's avatar

Welll…it does take a village to raise a child and while we may think the guy overstepped his boundaries this sort of discipline would have been common place not too long ago. I bet Ben Cartwright, Grandpa Walton or Charles Ingalls would have tanned that boys hide but good. haha

Here2_4's avatar

You know, it could have been the boy’s parents who told him to do the stealing. I could cite examples until next year. Does that put a different spin on it for anyone?

ucme's avatar

When I posted my original answer it was before I watched the clip, believing that the language in the question was more than enough to give an objective opinion.
Having now viewed the vid, i’d like to expand a little. The guy clearly thinks he’s a fuckin gangsta, dealing out “meat” to one of his homies. Correcting the boy on the ways of the street, where bros never shit on bros, like Denzel in Training Day.

Here’s the thing though, it’s not a movie set, you are not acting, neither are you gangsta.
No, no, you are a fuckin bully with a sexual perversion for beating on children, aroused all the more for playing out your sick shit with your equally sick mates.
Ergo…all kinds of wrong.

Here2_4's avatar

Sex? Where? I saw no arousal indications, if there was a boner, it must have been facing the screen, not on it. Gangsta? Heard no claims there. I saw a guy pissed that some runt tried to take his hard earned stuff. The kid got caught. Let me see, how does that quote go? “If you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime.”
You sure did see a lot of stuff which was not there. I wonder how you do with Where’s Waldo? There’s one! Oh, there’s another one. Hey that one is aroused. Waldos are everywhere.

Response moderated (Personal Attack)
Response moderated
DoNotKnow's avatar

Wow. This is wrong on so many levels for so many reasons, I’m surprised there’s a thread going on here. Watching the cycle of abuse in action isn’t a great way to start the morning.

The crime of child abuse is enough to make any discussion about what he may or may not have stolen irrelevant. And since we know that this beating will likely increase his violent behavior towards others (as well as other mental issues and trauma), we’re looking at the birth of future suffering right here.

Response moderated (Personal Attack)
Adirondackwannabe's avatar

One smack okay, two is questionable, but that whipping was clearly over the top. Yeah, the kid was in the wrong, but so was the adult. If we can use that term for the grownup.

elbanditoroso's avatar

I made one of the early comments, and I want to reiterate and clarify.

I have no problem with the kid being punished, whipped, or whatever. The kid needs discipline from somewhere.

My main issue with the clip (and the situation) is that the guy who did the whipping is not an authority figure, the kids’s parent, or any one with a legal (in loco parentis) role. Therefore what the whipper did is assault (possibly aggravated assault).

Dutchess_III's avatar

Well, they were stupid for filming and publishing it. I bet it’s on CPS’s desk now.

Coloma's avatar

I agree that one or two whacks would have been sufficient, but I disagree the whipper assaulted the boy. The kid made a choice and he took his lumps accordingly. He chose to be whipped rather than fess up to his mom. It is not assault under these circumstances.

It would have been assault had the man just gone after the kid with no warning or whipped him across the face. If you notice he is careful to place the blows of the belt on his backside and legs not his back, shoulders, head, face. The kid made his choice, he suffered the consequences and given his age as well, I really don’t have a problem with what went down.

Had the kid been 7, 8, 9, 10 years old yes, but he is 14 and the punishment was meted out with precision. There is a big difference between random acts of violence and cruelty vs. calmly doled out punishment. The whipper clearly stated he did not want to see the kid end up in jail so he doled out a lesson of consequences, much better than adding to a juvenile arrest record IMO.

keobooks's avatar

I don’t know if a 14 year old could legally consent to being beaten. I think there would be a strong argument that he couldn’t give his consent for that if his parents decided to press charges. I don’t support this man’s actions at all. He’d go to jail if he did that to an adult.

But I will say, there was a teacher that I worked with who warned our students about men like this. She’d say the kids shouldn’t assume that adults will react to their bad behavior as if they were teachers. If they pulled their worst stunts on random people out in the world, they’d risk getting punched in the face by someone who didn’t care that they were “just a kid”

DoNotKnow's avatar

I’m not saying that I’m necessarily correct, but is it possible that support for this is somewhat informed by some level of racism?

What if this video presented a white guy in a tie holding a 14-year-old white kid against his will and then beating him with a belt? Spend a few minutes truly imagining this to see if anything about this scenario changes?

Let me paint a picture of what would happen if this occurred in my town. The man doing the beating would have been arrested, his wife would leave him, they would have to leave town, and anyone involved with that video – including the man – would be sued into poverty.

I suspect some people’s perception of the video is colored by low expectations related to racism. There might be an expectation that beating is a black cultural thing, or it might be easy to slip into moral relativism. The fact that violence leads to violence and doesn’t solve or teach anyone anything (other than to not get caught stealing a violent thug’s wallet again) doesn’t matter…because on some level, they don’t really matter.

This seems somewhat related to human rights issues and the middle east. Bloggers recieving 1000 lashes for writing a blog post or theives getting their hands cut off is an acceptable thing for some people here in the West because it’s “them” and they don’t really know another way. It’s their “culture” and it’s ok.

Since it’s not ok to grab and hold 14-year-old white suburban kids against their will and beat them, I can’t imagine what would cause some people to find it ok to do it to a black kid.

Am I way off here?

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

You sure did see a lot of stuff which was not there.
Fluther has love/hate issues with sex, because of that they see the wrong kinds of sex in just about everything, and filter what they see and hear off it.

Well, it seems some people think putting him on ice in juvenile hall, or treating him as adult (finally) and sending him to the Big House is better than the belt, there he can befriend carjackers, rapist, jewel thieves, gangbanger, dealers, and who knows what. With all that time to sit around swapping stories, I can imagine what he would learn, and be eager to try when he hits the streets next time. He might feel wallets were too cheap, and breaking into houses would be much more lucrative, he may even have learned from one of his new incarceration friends, how to defeat the alarm. Yup, so much better than belt leather for 5 min. ~~~

keobooks's avatar

I seriously doubt a kid would be tried as an adult over pick-pocketing.

Coloma's avatar

@DoNotKnow I think your embellishing quite a bit yes. Race has nothing to do with it, infact, the fact that it was a black man whipping a black boy is a positive scenario, eliminates the definite cries of racism had it been a white man beating the boy. I would feel the same regardless of color. Claiming the white mans wife would leave him etc. is stretching the situation to absurd proportions IMO.

That would have nothing to do with the issue at hand. A kid was caught, red handed, trying to steal someones personal belongings and he was given a choice, a whoopin’ or arrest. Again I do not advocate violence but in some cases it is a matter of degree and in times gone by a neighbor that took it upon themselves to punish a child in their community would have been supported for doing so. I was a child in the 1960’s and corporal punishment was still used in school.

We all knew we might get a sound spanking over the principals knee with a paddle if we behaved inappropriately. I do not think that using corporal punishment as the only means of disciplining children is a healthy or wise move but….I do think the occasional spanking is nothing to get upset about. I was spanked as a child and I did not abuse my daughter or go on any violent sprees. This teenaged kid, not child, made a choice and I do not consider what unfolded to be abuse.

What about the mother of the black kid that cuffed him all the way down the street when she caught wind he was skipping school and participating in the riots in Baltimore awhile back? Everyone championed that mother for taking baby bear by the ear and giving him a good cuffing.

ragingloli's avatar

I am already opposed to corporal punishment physical abuse and assault as a form of punishment when perpetrated by parents.
This guy has no authority to do administer any sort of punishment or retaliation.
He should be charged with assault and unlawful detention.

DoNotKnow's avatar

@Coloma: “Claiming the white mans wife would leave him etc. is stretching the situation to absurd proportions IMO.”

Ok. Maybe she would stick with him through the trial and their downfall. But the fact is, he would be prosecuted, and there would likely be a civil ($) case as well. A large percentage of my town are lawyers. So, I apologize for the “wife leaving“part. But I just wanted to explain the facts about what would actually happen if this occurred in my town.

Did you feel any difference when you imagined the scenario with a white kid? Nothing? Ok. Well, maybe I’m completely wrong.

Also, I understand that you support corporal punishment (despite the fact that it’s morally wrong, doesn’t work, and is a rejection of science). But what about the fact that this was not the parent? Now, I don’t think it matters at all who is doing the beating, but I’m wondering if it matters to you. For example, would you have been ok if one of your kids came home after having been held against his/her will and beaten with a belt? If someone did this to my kid (my oldest is almost 13), my instant reaction would be to want to clean out the guy’s sinuses with a long screwdriver, followed by power-tool funtime. But the fact is that we have laws. I would be able to call the police, and that guy would be dealt with.

Sorry if I was way off on the racism thing. It was just a thought.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Not to derail, but when those who are opposed to corporal punishment, is that belt lashing what they imagine?

Coloma's avatar

@DoNotKnow I do not support use of corporal punishment as I mentioned, as any kind of long term disciplinary solution. Ideally a child might get a couple of mild spankings under the most extreme circumstances. I spanked my daughter, maybe 3 times between the ages of about 4 and 6. Of course I would be highly alarmed if someone had whipped my child but given the circumstances I think I would have been able to understand, even if I did not agree.

No apologies necessary, there really is no right/wrong contributions when sharing thoughts and opinions. Let me be perfectly clear, as I have mentioned several times above, I do not support corporal punishment as a main disciplinary methodology but also do not feel the occasional old fashioned spanking is abuse.
If you would want to give someone a lobotomy with a screwdriver and then turn the power drill on them, maybe some electric hedge clippers or a chansaw, for whipping your child isn’t that immoral as well?
Kudos for your humorous imagination. haha

DoNotKnow's avatar

@Coloma: “If you would want to give someone a lobotomy with a screwdriver and then turn the power drill on them, maybe some electric hedge clippers or a chansaw, for whipping your child isn’t that immoral as well?”

Yes! That’s my point. The fact that we have laws protects everyone. We don’t live in a culture that allows the vigilante. And that’s a good thing. The law protects victims, suspects, and those who are emotionally-invested. If there were no laws and we lived in some post-apocalypse chaos, my parental rage would be free to do horrible things to someone who hurt my kid. But we are lucky that this is not the case. We have laws. The video in this original post makes no sense in that context.

I should ask a separate question related to this concept that if something is morally wrong, doesn’t work, and harms someone, then it’s ok to do it just a little bit. This reasoning is the perfect justification for doing anything – hitting your wife just a little, being a little rapey, stealing a bit, lying a little bit, etc. Maybe I’ll start a new thread on this concept.

ragingloli's avatar

@Dutchess_III
Well, yes, because hits with belts, shoes, and rods and hard slaps in the face is what corporal punishment is tradionally.

Coloma's avatar

@DoNotKnow Agreed, but…in the case of being caught red handed, guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt, well…
If I caught someone attempting to set fire to my ranch property, trying to steal one of our horses, or found an intruder in my home I would have no issue with using force to detain them.
The man whipping the kid, did catch him, red handed, and gave an almost adult kid a choice, so I do not consider his actions to be abusive or vigilante. I don’t think we can compare this, particular, situation to being a little “rapey” or hitting your wife just a little.

Hitting your wife is harming an innocent person, not confronting someone in the act of committing a crime. If I came across a rape in progress you bet your behind I would clobber that rapist over the head in a nano second.

Dutchess_III's avatar

@ragingloli that’s what I think of too. However, many folks equate a painless swat on a well-diapered, two-year-old butt with “corporal punishment.” Swatting a kid’s hand is corporal punishment, according to some.
What you describe, with the belts, shoes, etc. is abuse. And I think the video shows abuse, too. I think the only thing that kid took away from it was anger, and probably a growing desire to get even with those guys. See what happens in the next 5 years.

Blackberry's avatar

I didn’t watch the video but I don’t think it’s ok to beat the kid up, but I probably would lecture him like a concerned dad lol.

Here2_4's avatar

He wasn’t beaten up. That would imply unable to leave under his own power. He was butt whipped with aa belt, lectured, promised help, and let go.

longgone's avatar

Well, the mom has confirmed she’d have whipped the kid, as well. We can assume she has done so before, I think. And yet…somehow, the solution is always just one more whipping.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Wait, yeah. The Mom said, “I done give that kid a worse whippin’ than what he got….” What? OK, so when are you going to figure out that that kind of things does not work?

Darth_Algar's avatar

“Butt whipped”, filmed, humiliated all by a group of “adults” who then put the video of it on the internet. Nothing about that was punishment (and the man had no authority to administer punishment in the first place), but rather the act of a man acting big in front of his friends.

Here2_4's avatar

I remember clearly when child safety seats were hotly debated because many kids fussed about being strapped in. and parents considered it cruel.

Here2_4's avatar

No authority? He has total authority over his own possessions, and somebody messed with that.

Dutchess_III's avatar

His “concern” may have been misplaced,but I really think it was concern, not showing off @Darth_Algar. It isn’t the way you or I would have handled it, but it appears as if that type of punishment is common in some places, and from other videos we’ve seen (Re the Mom who beat her kid several about the head and shoulders for being in that riot situation.)

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Here2_4 “No authority? He has total authority over his own possessions, and somebody messed with that.”

Yeah, you’re right. Next time I catch the neighbor kid on top of my shed I think I’ll break his legs so he can’t climb on it anymore. That’ll teach him a lesson.

longgone's avatar

@Here2_4 “No authority? He has total authority over his own possessions, and somebody messed with that.”

By that logic, every crime can immediately be dealt with as the victim wishes. I’m surprised you are advocating for that. Are you sure you’d want to live in thar kind of society?

Here2_4's avatar

Broken legs would sorta prevent a person from being able to leave under their own power. Also, climbing on a shed may be annoying, but does not deprive you of any of your hard earned property.

Here2_4's avatar

You are assuming what I would advocate. I would not advocate a violent free-for-all. That is not what happened. I never said I was in support of what the man did. I said I do not disagree with what he did. I would not advocate, or press for more of; but I do not disagree, would not condemn. And you are assuming I see no need for limits.

Pandora's avatar

@longgone It is different when a mom does the spanking and when someone else does. I remember my mom was tough and did corporal punishment and I even got spanked a few times and I didn’t think I deserved it. But my we were all frighten of my pissed off mom but for one of my brothers he didn’t decide to go on the straight and narrow till a grown man hit him back and a judge gave him a good warning saying that jail was the next stop for him if he ever showed his face in his court again. My bother started paying attention in school and dropped all his bad friends and bad habits. Just recently a young man was stabbed during a robbery of his phone. Minor offenses can turn to this
True that corporal punishment doesn’t always work. But doing nothing and or sending them to juvie probably has a worse success rate. At the very least, this taught the kid that everyone in the world isn’t going to turn the other cheek and that taking someones elses possessions should never be taken lightly. That man worked for what he has. No one has a right to claim it as theirs because they want it.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Here2_4 “Broken legs would sorta prevent a person from being able to leave under their own power. Also, climbing on a shed may be annoying, but does not deprive you of any of your hard earned property.”

It does when it damages that property. Besides, the kid has violated my property rights, so why should I be concerned with his ability to leave under his own power?

Here2_4's avatar

Still comparing apples to tennis balls, @Darth_Algar .

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Here2_4

Please explain how damaging my property is not violating my property rights. I’m really curious about that logic.

Pandora's avatar

But we were all frighten to piss off my mom Correction (my dog was bugging me, LOL)

longgone's avatar

@Pandora I’m not sure what your point is, I’m afraid. Are you simply saying that violence is part of parenting, in your opinion? We would very much disagree there. My parents never felt they had a right to hurt their children.

@Here2_4 Would you say that the authority you are granting the man in question should only be awarded in response to certain kinds of crimes? Does the fact that the thief is a minor factor in?

Here2_4's avatar

I am saying there is a difference between breaking legs, and shooting, and what this man did. There was nothing sneaky about it. He made it clear what the boy did, and what his choices were, and none of them involved injury; pain yes, injury, no. There are vast degrees on this angle, and this man covered the bases. He made the boy clear on what was done wrong, what he could expect, and also followed up with an offer of support.
The thief being a minor. I know personally people who fear teens and even adolescents; people who are elderly, women alone, etc. There are some horrible kids out there; kids who find their community a free for all simply because they are under 18. Some hire themselves out to adult criminals, because if they are caught, it is no big whup. Well, this kid got a good whup, and now he is rethinking some choices.

ucme's avatar

Roll up, roll up, for the annual purge night.
Cuz anarchy works & shit :/

Pandora's avatar

@longgone , I’m not sayingthat violence is or should be a part of parenting. There is a difference between corporal punishment and a beating. In my eyes a big difference. Corporal punishment can even be a slap on the backside of a hand. I see it as a quick and sharp reminder of consequences for poor judgement or indifference to others. I myself tried my best to use words and time out to teach my children and only spanked the back of their hands when they were too young to understand words and did things that could cause them extreme harm like play with the stove or sockets or run out in the street.
I didn’t raise my kids the way my mom did. But then again, I was firm and there were other consequences and luckily my kids where not that stubborn. But not every kid reacts the same to consequences. I had to change my approach with each kid. I don’t think it was my parenting skills that did it all. I was just lucky
.
But until someone can actually find the perfect way to curb the actions of those kids who have a harder time understanding consequences (like my brother did) so that they don’t make friends with criminals or become one, I am not going to say that all corporal punishment should be stopped or be considered a crime automatically. And yes. I would rather see one child spanked over seeing someone lose their life because someone never learned about consequences. I’m not saying corporal punishment is always going to work, but our jail system is proven not to work, and I haven’t seen any proof that kids who were never spanked don’t end up criminals. As a matter of fact. I know of two brothers. One was spanked as a kid because he was the oldest and the middle child was always left off the hook. The middle one is sitting in jail now. The oldest has a family and did good with his life. He actually helps people during emergencies like Katrina.

I am sure there are also stories that show the opposite to be true, but my point is that raising young people to be decent law abiding citizens is never going to have a cookie cutter solution because peoples minds are not that simplistic. The ideal solution is set bounderies before the childs personality develops. nurture them to be decent before they turn 3. Teach them about consequences. After 5 your kids personality is pretty set. Then it will become more difficult to get them to be a certain way without strong manipulation or stronger consequences. But something has to be tried. I grew up in the Bronx and I can tell you that a lot of people I knew growing up got spanked and I never heard of any of my friends going to jail or becoming abusive. Only one commited suicide and it was over not being accepted for being gay.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I agree that a spanking (not a whipping) is better than letting kids suffer the “natural consequences” in many cases. Spanking him or her for running out in the street…sure, it may sting, it may shock, but not like being hit by a car would.

I wonder if that fool that jumped in the pond with the alligator warning had much in the way of discipline in his life.

Here2_4's avatar

I’m guessing that one would fall under the category of knocked senseless.

Here2_4's avatar

Where is @Esedess ? This has become quite passionate. Won’t our asker join in?

Coloma's avatar

I never used any “implements” the few times I spanked my daughter. I used my hand on her bottom, clothed, and gave her maybe 4 spanks. I think some of us older/middle aged peeps do not consider open hand spanking to be even, remotely, in the same category as beating with belts, sticks, razor straps and other old fashioned methods like trips to the wood shed. haha
My mother spanked me with a hair brush on several occasions and switched my legs with a yard stick a couple of times. I am hardly scarred for life and am a very non-violent person overall.

Coloma's avatar

Gah..I just noticed I used “your” instead of “you’re” in a posting above. Just HAD to correct my mistake, drives me insane when I make errors like that. Okay..never mind, carry on.

@Here2_4 He’s probably chained up enjoying some whip and spur action in his BDSM dungeon. kidding, kidding, lol

Dutchess_III's avatar

My mom wacked me on the back of the legs with a hairbrush once. I was about 17. I was like,“What was that even about?” It’s not like it hurt. I just looked at her like she was nuts!

She only slapped me once. Again, I was about 17 or 18. I became angry when she slapped me. I took her shoulders between my strong hands (noting how frail they seemed beneath my hands,) picked her up that way, set her back and said, “Don’t ever do that again.”

My Mom spent most of her life losing it. It got really bad when I was 16, 17….

Dutchess_III's avatar

You know, as for the video, and as for the video of the Mom wacking the kid for going to the riot, I really think that all that was accomplished was to humiliate and embarrass the “young men.” And that is completely counter productive, especially in a culture where tough macho is prized.

Jaxk's avatar

Seems like stealing is a risky profession. Best to understand the risks early on. A few swats with a belt are at the low end of the risk scale.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I do hope it worked. I have a feeling his Mom is a single Mom, and it can really be hell without a man around, especially when a boy gets to the challenging age.

talljasperman's avatar

The kid kept grabbing his privates as if the belt was harming his privates. That is totally unacceptable. What if the kid is receiving permanent testicle damage? That is too much of a punishment for stealing a few bucks.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Pretty sure he was just doing the gang banger / baseball player thing of grabbing at his crotch…kind of a macho display. He was trying to be macho, it just wasn’t working He was doing it before he got whipped.

It wasn’t a few bucks. It was the guy’s credit cards, debit card, keys and I don’t remember what all else. I don’t know how much cash was in his billfold.

Here2_4's avatar

I hadn’t noticed, but I went back to see. I think he may have just been trying to protect things as a preventative measure. If the nuggets got whacked I am pretty sure he would have howled at a whole new level, or passed out, or dropped to his knees.

chyna's avatar

Some guys just can’t keep their hands off of their jewels.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

The best lesson i learned that teachers were to be respected at all times, even the douche bag ones, and never to be sassed or hit came by way of having my backside lit.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Here2_4

But why should I care if the kid is able to walk or not? He trespassed on, and damaged, my property even after being told not to before. Maybe a hard lesson is what he needs to learn, especially since his father (no idea where the mother is at, only that she’s not really in his life) doesn’t seem to be doing much. Do I not have the right to kick his ass for touching my stuff?

Here2_4's avatar

No, but you might grip the little guy by the shoulder, escort him to his dad, and have a real discussion about what’s happening, and what you expect. When you approach him, you might have a list of suggestions handy for where dad can get some help parenting alone.

Here2_4's avatar

Poor @Esedess , typing his fingers to nubs.

Darth_Algar's avatar

So you’re saying it’s not really my place to punish the kid right?

Here2_4's avatar

I’m saying your circumstances are completely different. You know where the boy lives, and with whom. The boy does not leave with any of your property. (At least, from what you’ve said.)
The man in the video wanted to see the boy’s parent(s), but the boy would not tell him where he lived. If the boy had cooperated, I believe the man would have talked to the boy’s mother instead.
You have that opportunity available to you, so you should use it. I think talking with the boy’s father would be good for all of you. I remember being little, and seeing places which looked like a good hideout. Property lines meant little to me. It wasn’t selfishness, I just didn’t yet understand much about ownership, titles, deeds, etc. Maybe this boy is similar in that regard. He probably thinks you have cool stuff, and maybe would even like to hang out with you. Who knows, you, him, and his dad might decided to make the boy a fort or something of his own together, and become good friends doing it.

Dutchess_III's avatar

@Here2_4 I’m guessing there is no dad. Notice in the interview it was just his mom.

Interesting that you should suggest that, though. Men can put a whole new level on discipline.

keobooks's avatar

I’m kind of surprised that people just tossed out the racism thing just because it was a black man beating a black boy. One of the big complaints right now is that black on black violence gets ignored by the media and not taken seriously. I do think things would be different if one or both of the people in this video were white. VERY different.

I also find it disturbing that some people think that someone deserves to be beaten until they cannot stand up for attempting (and failing) to steal a wallet. What century is this again?

Dutchess_III's avatar

I think it would be different too, @keobooks. I’m not sure how, can’t really put my finger on it, but for a young white man to be beating a white kid would be different. Maybe it’s just what we’re so used to seeing in the media, the loud black momma / sister / girlfriend with a big mouth, always threatening o implying violence? The young black men posturing and threatening?

I don’t think they hit him till he couldn’t stand up. He wanted to sit down so they couldn’t hit him again, so he kept trying to collapse.

keobooks's avatar

No, I wasn’t talking about the video. I was talking about people in this thread saying that it was OK to do that.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Yeah, I don’t know. I got spanked once, when I was about 4, by our next door neighbor who was my best friend’s mom. My friend, Geri, got the bright idea to color on the concrete stoop with crayon. I told her I didn’t think she should do it, but she did it anyway.
Her mom caught her and whipped both of us. I was outraged, because I hadn’t done anything wrong.
I reminded my mom of that incident about 10 years ago and she said, “Well, yeah. She (my friend’s mom) did apologize for that.”
I was outraged again, 45 years later! “She should have apologized to me!” I said!
Now, if I had been doing something wrong (which would be rare for me) I don’t think I would have really thought about it one way or the other, except that I’d probably be in trouble again when I got home. I’m sure I wouldn’t remember it all these decades later.

You know…he used a wide belt, the kid’s butt was padded. If it stung, it was only for a bit.
Never the less, the echos of a slave whipping bothered me a great deal.

chyna's avatar

@Dutchess_III My parents used to whip everyone that was in the room to make sure they got the right culprit. I was outraged on a few occasions as I’m sure my brothers were outraged that they had to take a whipping for something I did.

keobooks's avatar

@chyna—Things like this make me so glad I was an only child. Of course, I NEVER got to escape anything. And there were a few times I took the blame for eating candy left out—and it was my DAD.

Coloma's avatar

I’m an only child too so when I was punished it was because I did it.
I never was accused of doing something that I didn’t really do. My daughter is an only child as well and she would try to blame things on the dog, her furry “sibling.”
” No mom, I didn’t eat the whole box of cookies Ruckus did.” lol

We used to laugh because she was always blaming the dog or complaining about him like he was her brother.

” Moooom, Ruckus is staring at me!”
“Mooom, Ruckus is on my bed again!”
“Mooom, make Ruckus go away he wants my muffin!” lol

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Here2_4

You assume that I haven’t spoken to his father. Notice how I said his father doesn’t seem to be doing much? Yeah. So really, I don’t see what other option I have at this point but to kick the kid’s ass for touching my stuff.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

People talk about where was the father, in today’s society women are told they don’t need the man, so they have to step up to the plate and fill those shoes, in that young man’s case, mom couldn’t.

Dutchess_III's avatar

We aren’t told that, @Hypocrisy_Central. We find we have to live it. And we have to play the role of the father as well. It’s tough.

Here2_4's avatar

@Darth_Algar , it does sound as if you have a frustrating situation. Have you discussed alternatives with him? Are you in the states? On craigslist you can often find sheds, etc. for free, people just want them hauled away.
Way back, when my kids were little, and my husband first started traveling at work, I had a deal with neighborhood kids. I would host cookie parties on my porch each weekend. As long as my house, yard, etc. stayed issue free, it would continue. My kids would help bake.

Is there something you can entice this kid with to make him a little friend instead of a problem?

talljasperman's avatar

I think that a theif should be given a job to earn their way through life instead of being punished.

cazzie's avatar

If you don’t want your kid to hit you or other people, then don’t hit your kid. And taking a leather belt to a kid 8 years old or younger will get you a jail sentence where I live and rightly so.

The beating probably made the man feel better, but did NOTHING to change this kid. If anything, his mistrust of adults and authority figures grew. I’m sure he’s back out, petty thieving and feeling justified because it isn’t OK for adults to beat children. The crime needed to be reported. There had to be actual consequences for the kid. ‘Scared Straight’ doesn’t mean ‘Beaten Straight’.

I think the guy had the right idea with giving the kid his number and trying to play ‘good Uncle’, but would YOU call a person who beat you with a belt? I counted 14 lashings. Now, if this guy hadn’t hit the kid quite so much, or perhaps just threatened him and then done the ‘take you under my wing’ thing, I’m sure that would have been more effective. It sounded like his mother had given up on him, saying that ‘One more time you get caught theiving, you are going to the boy’s home’.... the kid needs some positive male role models. Perhaps it works in his culture… the beating, but it wouldn’t here.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Here2_4

Nah, I’d rather just kick his ass. It’s the simple, straightforward solution and teaches the kid a valuable lesson. And, frankly, I chose not to have kids of my own. I’m certainly not now going to play mentor to someone else’s kid just because that person is too lazy to properly parent them. Nope, this thread has convinced me – violence is the best solution here.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Here2_4

I do find it funny that earlier in this thread you were quite blatant in your support of such measures (even calling those who did not support it “pampered babies”) and now you seem to be squeamish about it.

Here2_4's avatar

I am consistent. I said in my very first post, “I don’t disagree with the man.”
I then listed my reasons why. I did not take up a banner proclaiming my love of ass beatings. I simply said I do not disagree with that man. He covered his options. I’m okay with what he did. I did not say I thought it should be common, repeated, or applauded. His situation fit. You have a different situation. In some cases I would not disagree with shooting the thief. This would not be one of those occasions.
Geez. If I like sausage on my pizza sometimes, I guess in your book that dooms all pizzas I eat ever, and by gawd all pizzas everywhere ever after to have some freakin’ sausage on them.
My feelings have not changed. My convictions are not altered, and I am feeling sorry for your neighbor. If I knew where he was I would be tempted to build his son a shed to play on myself.
I stuck my tongue out and made that noise as you, but I don’t know how to spell it.

ucme's avatar

On & on & on it goes…#keyboardwarriors

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Here2_4

Oh, perhaps I misunderstood your ”touch my stuff, I will kick ass” comment. Kinda sounded a bit like taking up the banner for ass beatings. Still not sure how my situation doesn’t fit though. You’ve not really explained that. And really, what other remedy do I have? I’ve asked the kid nicely. I’ve then flat out told the kid to stay out of my yard and off my shed. Neither of those worked, so I went to his father. He’s done nothing. So I’ve pretty much exhausted all options expect for the ass beating. I suppose I could contact the police. Maybe file a case for damage to my private property. But, as we established earlier in this thread, going to the police will only make things worse for the kid.

jca's avatar

I believe in our society we frown upon vigilantism. If I were the mom, I’d want to know what my child did and I’d appreciate an adult not beating the crap out of him, which to me is taking advantage of his vulnerability and lack of good decision making (him choosing that over having me be told). Also, it’s a crime for an adult to do what this man did to the boy. I’d rather the mom be told or the police be told, for some proper corrective action to take place.

Dutchess_III's avatar

@jca but the mom did say she’s “beat him harder than that” in the past. She didn’t seem to mind. I would.

Also, he wouldn’t tell them who is Mom was, or where they lived.

As others have mentioned, if they had gone to the police he might very well have ended up in juvinile detention, which only makes things worse.

jca's avatar

@Dutchess_III: If it happened to me (If I were the adult), I’d then call the police and let the chips fall where they may.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I would have done the same thing. I kind of wonder if they guy found out the kid didn’t have a Dad influence in his life, so he provided one, or the kind he, apparently, was used to.

jca's avatar

I don’t think it should be up to the adult (the man) to determine what’s best for the kid, or that juvy hall would be detrimental to the kid. Maybe the kid would be forced to do some probationary stuff instead of juvy hall, and then that might get him on track. Whatever, the best thing to do is to do it the legal way and like I said, let the chips fall where they may.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Dutchess_III

Maybe he would have been sent to juvy. Maybe not. Maybe juvy would have made things worse. Maybe not. Maybe, maybe, maybe….

Regardless of what the eventual outcome may or may not have been going to the police would have been the proper course of action, not beating the kid.

It’s funny that we want to be a society of laws. We want the protections, rights and privileges that the law affords us. But when we feel wronged we want to take the law into our own hands. We want to deny the person who wronged us those protections, rights and privileges that we want for ourselves.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

It’s funny that we want to be a society of laws. We want the protections, rights and privileges that the law affords us. But when we feel wronged we want to take the law into our own hands. We want to deny the person who wronged us those protections, rights and privileges that we want for ourselves.
It doesn’t have to be done to the person personally, if you step off the reservation the wrong way just pass laws to punish the person, even after they done time, as every state has their list of people they deemed sexual deviants, gang-banger, and drug kingpins, though out of the three the so-called deviant statistically is the one less likely to re-offend….you gotta love the hypocrisy thought. ~~~

Coloma's avatar

I agree with the over all POV of non-vigilante-ism and the myriad “maybes” of possible situational outcome but…I still say, given the kids age, and the choice he was given by the man he attempted to rob, that no abuse of anything took place here. Maybe this intervention will be a wake up call for him. Next time he might not be so lucky and end up getting shot breaking into someones home or attempting to rob a business. The law also allows us to shoot intruders in our home and to protect our businesses.

Had this kid decided to break into a house the outcome could have been much more deadly than a whoppin.’

jca's avatar

If that was my son, I’d have called the cops on the guy. I don’t care what the kid agreed to, and I would be willing to give the son up to the cops, too, but the guy took advantage of his position, in my opinion. As far as the guy offering to help the kid or whatever, that, in my opinion, was done or said for the benefit of the camera. Just my opinion.

Esedess's avatar

Holy jeeze!! Logged back in today and there’s over 100 responses here. I’ll jump in with my opinion real quick and go back to reading my way down the chain. I haven’t made it through all your responses yet… Sorry, there’s a lot of words up there and I’m a slow reader. =J

Firstly, if you take right & wrong out of the equation, I think the guy did alright. He didn’t want to hit the kid. He wanted to take him to his parents. He gave the boy an option, and what you see here is the option he chose for himself. Yes, this guy could have taken him to the police. But honestly, who among us would rather take arrest over this whoopin? Pretending I’m a teen, if my parents caught me drunk driving, I would much rather deal with them, even if it was this physical, learn and come to my senses through their methods rather than find myself in a financial/legal hole that makes life difficult for years to come; even after I’d learned my lesson and made a personal decision not to repeat. I’m sure the thought crossed this man’s mind to get the law involved, and he decided exactly what I would have in that situation. Not to burden this kid’s life for years. Not to put that stigma on him. Not to run him through the system. Or in other words, give him the benefit of the doubt that he would learn here and now. His other non-option was to let him get away with it scott-free.
Aside from that, he wasn’t beating on him in a fit of rage. He was cool tempered, never raised his voice once, and he stopped the moment the boy showed signs of sincere regret and repentance. IMO, there’s a clear line between physical punishment and abuse.
Abuse is when you hurt someone badly for retribution and to satisfy your own anger.
Physical punishment is when you hurt someone just enough for them to understand the severity of their actions and think twice about it next time. Whether or not physical punishment results in the intended effect has always been the matter for debate on either side. But this guy’s execution kept things within the bounds of punishment by those standards.

Ultimately, I think the kid got off pretty easy. If he’d have been caught by kids his own age or someone with a worse temper, there would probably be blood.

Darth_Algar's avatar

If anyone seriously thinks this whipping has taught the kid some valuable life lesson and will put him on the straight and narrow then I’ve got some oceanfront property in Tibet that I want to sell to you cheap.

Jaxk's avatar

If anyone thinks that turning him over to the police would have taught him some valuable life lesson. that’s probably why you have beach front property in Tibet

keobooks's avatar

I don’t think it would have taught him a valuable life lesson. But we have laws in the U.S. And you don’t conduct this kind of vigilante justice against anyone—especially a minor.

jca's avatar

I agree with @keobooks. It was not up to the man and the minor to put out the offer or make the decision. In the state I work in, it’s not even an option for the mom to beat the kid with a belt unless she wants to be charged with child abuse.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Jaxk

I’ve not claimed nor implied that taking the kid to the police would have taught him any kind of lesson. My stance is simply that going to the police would have been the proper way to deal with the situation. Vigilantism is not. As usual you are utterly oblivious to the point.

Esedess's avatar

@Darth_Algar
I don’t disagree that calling the police would be the legal route. However, I tend to prefer people dealing with people if it can be managed. It’s like the neighbor who calls the cops on you for having music too loud… Are we not neighbors? Can you not just come over and ask me to please turn it down? Do you really need to send a bunch of guys with guns to my door? I respect people who interact with the world in a personal manner.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Esedess

Ah yes, beating someone with a belt is much more neighborly.

Esedess's avatar

@Darth_Algar
Different responses for different circumstances…

keobooks's avatar

There’s a whole world of difference between asking your neighbors to turn down their music over beating someone with a belt. The first one isn’t illegal.. that’s for starters.

It’s more like you were making loud noise and the neighbor came over, entered your house and threw your stereo equipment out of the third story window. I guess that’s more personal than calling the police..

Esedess's avatar

@keobooks
That’s absolutely not what it would be like. You having music too loud is a passive annoyance. The instance should elicit a passive response.

Someone trying to steal your wallet out of your hand is not a passive incident, and thus elicits a matched response.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Esedess “Different responses for different circumstances…”

Yes, and in this circumstance the proper course of action would have been to contact the police.

Esedess's avatar

@Darth_Algar “Are you somehow under the impression that I’d send armed police…” No.

Let’s look at this from a different angle. This kid tries to steal your wallet. You catch him and then what? Hold him by force until police show up I’m assuming right? In calling the police, what are you hoping happens to the boy?

jca's avatar

To me, what happens to the boy is out of my hands. I do the legal thing and let the chips fall where they may. If nothing happens to him, then so be it. I’m not a bounty hunter or vigilante.

Esedess's avatar

@jca
Well let’s just go ahead and throw out this idea of “nothing happens to him.” Something most certainty will. The police show up. You’re asked if you want to press charges. You don’t get to just “let the chips fall where they may.” Your response dictates the outcome and you have to make a choice.

This happened in Wisconsin, so…

Class A Misdemeanor Theft
In Wisconsin, theft is a class A misdemeanor if the value of the property or services stolen does not exceed $2,500. (§ 943.20(3).) The punishment for a class A misdemeanor in Wisconsin can include a fine of no more than $10,000, imprisonment for no more than nine months, or both. (§ 939.51(3)(a).)

Remember, pressing charges means if it goes to court you will have to show up and give testimony. This is highly unlikely, but just because it IS a possibility, let’s say he gets sentenced to the full extent of the law. $10,000 fine and 9 months in jail. Now you may think that’s reasonable or terribly harsh… Either way, now it’s out of your hands.

As this 14 year old kid is being escorted from the courtroom to go lose almost a year out of some of the most developmentally crucial times in youth, his mother is crying in the audience for the loss of her son and the $10,000 fine that will cripple her financially.

Now how do you feel? Was justice served?
Mind you, the chips did not just fall, you guided them. This is all a direct result of how you decided to handle the situation, and it’s a lie/rationalization/cop-out to think anything else.

Darth_Algar's avatar

It’s extremely unlikely that the kid is going to be charged, tried and punished as an adult to the fullest extent possible. Regardless, that is beyond my concern. As the cliche goes: don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time.

jca's avatar

@Darth_Algar sums up my opinion precisely.

jca's avatar

Also, it is unlikely that it would go to trial but if I had to testify, I would, of course.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@jca “Also, it is unlikely that it would go to trial but if I had to testify, I would, of course.”

Yep. Most prosecutors, having limited resources, don’t want to expend those resources prosecuting things like petty theft. They’d rather just offer plea bargains in those cases and settle them without ever going to trial, as they have much larger cases to deal with.

jca's avatar

In the County I work in, another option is that this would become a PINS case (People in Need of Supervision), which are for teens like this boy. It’s like Probation but more social worky. Therapy for the kid, therapy for the family, whatever the judge orders but not jail time or juvy hall.

jca's avatar

@Darth_Algar: Especially for a 14 year old.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I know you’re in the system…does it ever work, @jca?

jca's avatar

@Dutchess_III: Yes. They keep stats (like anything in the government) and if there were no success stories, or if there was a very low success rate, they’d change it up.

jca's avatar

@Esedess: If I called the cops and whatever happened to the boy as a result, I’d not feel guilty. I should feel guilty because he stole my wallet? I’d actually feel more guilty watching him get the shit beat out of him.

keobooks's avatar

Regardless of how people feel about the justice system, if you choose to do what this guy did, you risk getting arrested and convicted yourself. This guy got lucky. I think most parents would want to press charges against this guy for assaulting their son.

And sorry, but no matter how I feel about the justice system, I wouldn’t risk my own butt getting arrested. Vigilante justice is illegal in the U.S. Someone doing something illegal to me does not give me the right to do something illegal in retaliation.

Coloma's avatar

The kid got lucky too, he also risked being shot or clobbered with a nine iron or baseball bat.
If this had to happen at all at least all he got was a moderate thrashing. Could have been a whole lot worse no doubt. Maybe this kid will think twice now before he graduates from petty theft to breaking and entering.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Coloma

Doubtful. If anything it’ll probably just make him feel like he has to be harder.

Coloma's avatar

@Darth_Algar Well..if nothing else he is still alive and so has time to maybe have an “ah hah!” moment. dead boys don’t wake up. haha

cazzie's avatar

@Coloma so we should just be thankful that the guy whose wallet he stole wasn’t homicidal? That is one of the worst ‘glass half full’ arguments I’ve ever heard and I’m a cynic.

Coloma's avatar

@cazzie All I am saying is it could have had a much worse outcome depending on the person involved. The lesser of two evils. Not an argument in the least just an observation.

Dutchess_III's avatar

@Coloma has a point. The kid could have been shot, no questions asked.

cazzie's avatar

Well… I’d be asking lots of questions. Also, would Coloma’s prediction be different if the guy whose wallet was stolen was white?

Coloma's avatar

@cazzie No it would not. Crime is crime and crime has no color or gender.
A whoopin’ is, clearly, preferable to death. Had the kid broken into a home he could legally have been killed no questions asked.

cazzie's avatar

I think there is an expectation that blacks are armed with guns, so I think if this was a white guy, I’m sure there would be different reactions.

Coloma's avatar

@cazzie I disagree, that’s racist comment in itself. Where I live and in a lot of California, the majority of gun owners are white. Maybe in an inner city environment but the suburbs and country are predominantly occupied by middle class white people many of which keep firearms.
I would not feel one iota differently had this kid been a white kid, a white rich kid, a white private school privileged brat, a little white cowboy or a white surfer dude. haha

keobooks's avatar

How you personally would feel about it doesn’t change the fact that it would be perceived differently by most Americans .

Coloma's avatar

@keobooks Some perhaps, but I wouldn’t say most.
A delinquent kid is a delinquent kid period. I think most people would champion any kid of any color suffering the consequences of their poor behavior.

cazzie's avatar

@Coloma yes, most would champion the goodness in that kid. He’s 14 and behind the 8 ball. Praising the man for not killing him is not a way to champion the poor kids alternatives. If anything, it is a quick and passing comment… but certainty not the message.

Coloma's avatar

@cazzie Exactly, it was a quick and passing comment until you latched onto it.
I never intended it to be a “message” and I am not “praising” the man for not killing him, only pointing out that all things considered it could have had a much more tragic outcome. I think we can agree my quick and passing comment has passed now. lol

cazzie's avatar

I guess, where you live, judging everything by, ‘well. lucky he wasn’t shot dead’ is just a throw away comment. While, in the rest of the world, it sounds rather serious and alarming.

Coloma's avatar

@cazzie Oh please, just take it at face value, it is really not any deeper than that.
Where I live has nothing to do with anything, don’t take cheap shots pun intended because you disagree with a simple, innocuous comment.

Jaxk's avatar

Frankly getting shot while perpetrating a robbery is a realistic possibility and anyone pursuing that line of work should be aware of that fact.

cazzie's avatar

@Jaxk In the US, while, elsewhere in the world, that statement sounds pretty crazy.

Here2_4's avatar

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2153588/Neighbor-75-shot-killed-13-year-old-boy-accusing-child-stealing-guns.html
http://video.foxnews.com/v/1622103111001/teen-killed-after-alleged-robbery/?#sp=show-clips
http://www.truecrimereport.com/2011/05/reynaldo_munoz_shot_and_killed.php
There are lots more. I just thought some ostriches might care to peek at reality.
To be clear, I don’t support any of this behavior. I’m just thinking there are some moms involved with these stories who would like for their child to have had a belt taken to them, because at least they would have had some more birthdays.

cazzie's avatar

Didn’t say craziness didn’t happen. Just not expected.

Here2_4's avatar

I suppose with the right laws in place, this man would have done so much better to turn the kid over to the police. I say this wryly as some places laws can be strict.
http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2012/11/14/bolivian-city-to-castrate-rapists-and-cut-off-hands-thiefs/
Everywhere has laws, and everywhere has societal behaviors which are accepted, legal or not. I just don’t see this instance as brutal, but rather a painful reminder. Some burdens are best pulled along, and some are best pushed from behind.
In regards to vigilantism, that would involve hunting a suspect down, or lying in wait, usually by a person unrelated to the crime. This would be a situation of the victim catching the thief in the act.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/oct/24/iran-thief-hand-cut-off
How about that guy? He was already serving a sentence for his crime.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdwEMknYr7s
The China government uses a death penalty for crimes such as petty theft, and embezzlement.
http://www.deathpenaltyworldwide.org/country-search-post.cfm?country=China
By comparison, this guy gave the kid a free pass.
Do you see now how many different ways there are of looking at something?
Okay, so this comment was not directed to anyone in particular, just anyone who expects the whole world to have a singular balcony view of everything.
*
Shoot, for all we know, the man came from a couple of decades in the future. He might have been the boy’s grown version, whupping his own ass. Now, how about that for a twist?
Heh, heh.

PuffUvSmoke's avatar

I think that it is wrong the man posted the video, but the beating could have been worse.Iguess the boy is lucky.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Here2_4

If you have to defend your position by pointing out 3rd world nations and dictatorships known for violating human rights and saying “see, this isn’t that bad”, then you might want to reconsider your stance.

Here2_4's avatar

There you go! My point is proven.
I’m wondering how you include China as a third world country.

Here2_4's avatar

If you clicked the links, dear, you would see that in one post, they are all in the states. In my next response, around the world.
From here to tiny villages clear around the world, people get killed for stealing. People acting shocked, stunned, mortified are being judgmental, and sheltering themselves from the harsh truth that homo sapiens does violence, anger, fury, murder, torture, and then there is this one guy. Some fellow chooses to play some ball in a public park, and a daring youth lurking nearby chooses to violate the man. He takes the man’s wallet. He makes off with the man’s money, liquid assets, proof of identity, and whatever else. In many places around the world, including the boy’s own country, state, city, he could have been maimed or killed for what he did. Instead, the victim of his crime caught him, gave him a choice, whupped his butt in a manner he would remember a while, lectured him, and offered to be in the boy’s life as a supportive influence. Was the actions of the victim made either more or less legal by the mere contrast to what he might have done? No. Does it make his actions a bit more understandable, or even a bit more tolerable? Yes, I do believe it does.

Darth_Algar's avatar

I don’t, and I don’t care what may go on in tiny villages clear around the world or in other countries. In this country we are a nation of laws. As I said before, we want the law to be there for us, but we want to take the law into our own hands whenever we feel slighted. Ether we are a nation of laws, or we’re a nation where every individual is free to dispense whatever they think of as justice. Can’t have it both ways.

(BTW: You can drop the condescension. It’s not helping your argument.)

Here2_4's avatar

(BTW my personality is what it is. My expressions are habit. They are not part of this issue, and not for your appraisal.)
You simply pick what to harp on, and ignore the rest.
THAT STUFF HAPPENS EVERYWHERE, INCLUDING THROUGHOUT THE US, AND WORLDWIDE As supported by various links above, I have shown that much of the world takes a dim view of thievery.

dxs's avatar

Wrong. This is assault. Even worse because it was an adult assaulting a kid.

Tennessee37172's avatar

I was never hit with a belt as a kid. I have not whipped my kid with a belt either.

However I believe that the choice was the kids choice. I know if I did something like this and the man offered me the option of a whipping or calling the police, I would have taken the whipping.

However, I do not believe that whippings work. They use to whip prisoners, and that did not work. I know broke the law as an adult and was offered a whipping or jail, I would take the easy punishment. I would choose the belt or even a strap over jail time. I believe anyone would. If a whipping with a belt worked why did they out law it in Scouts? Sometime I want to whip the kids butt with a belt or strap, but then I know it will not accomplish anything.

If whippings really worked, we would see fathers pulling off their belt in public and whipping the child right then and there.

It does not work. It is pointless, and again, I would be willing to have public whippings if they really worked.

Darth_Algar's avatar

Holy thread necromancy Batman!

Anyway, I stand by my position in this thread. Vigilantism is never acceptable in a society of law and order. Nor is assault, no matter what spin you try to put on it.

And a choice offered and made under threat and intimidation is no choice at all.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

Some people make exceptions on who to administer “street justice” to, it all comes down to who did what.

Answer this question

Login

or

Join

to answer.
Your answer will be saved while you login or join.

Have a question? Ask Fluther!

What do you know more about?
or
Knowledge Networking @ Fluther