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flo's avatar

Is there any entity who advocates for abortion till birth?

Asked by flo (12974points) August 5th, 2015

Anti-abortion, and pro-choice people agree after a certain number of weeks, there should be no abortion. Is there any known entity who advocates for abortion till birth?

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29 Answers

ragingloli's avatar

“And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp. And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle. And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves”

Bold part includes women in all stages of pregnancy.

janbb's avatar

@ragingloli But that’s kind of killing all women, including pregnant ones – not the same as killing the babies and leaving the mother alive. Many warring tribes have killed pregnant women throughout history.

ragingloli's avatar

Well, technically it is killing all non-virgin women, meaning all women that have even a tiny chance of being pregnant. The whole thing is about erasing the entire male bloodline.
In a sense, this is also advocating post-birth abortion.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Well, not that I know of. Not today.

SmashTheState's avatar

I do. In fact, I support abortion right up until the child is capable of supporting itself. So long as it is reliant on another person for survival, it’s to be hoped that that person would willingly accept responsibility for it – but it can’t morally be compelled. Once upon a time, children who were born in the wrong season were left in the woods to die of exposure because an extra mouth might be the difference between survival and death for an entire family. In fact, infant mortality was so high – upwards of 80% – that children were not given names and weren’t regarded as human until they’d passed a survival milestone like living until a certain age. If an infant died, the next child which came along would inherit the intended name, being regarded as a second try at making the same person.

Yellowdog's avatar

The problem with that position is, children cannot support themselves until many years AFTER birth. This is not intended as a snarky answer—it is reality that the “until the child is capable of supporting itself” doesn’t fly. Under this condition, many disabled people, elderly, and preschool children would also be considered non valid individuals

JLeslie's avatar

In Judaism it is mandatory to remove a fetus if the mother’s life is in jeopardy because of the pregnancy. In other religions, like Christianity, some Christians seem to be accepting of abortion to save the mother, but it’s with reluctance from what I can tell. Rabbis also argue about aborting if the baby will suffer greatly. I’m not sure up until what point if the pregnancy they would allow an abortion. For instance even some orthodox rabbis are ok with abortion if the fetus has Tay-Sachs. If the woman didn’t find out until late in the pregnancy I don’t know where the rabbis who support abortion in that case would stand.

@SmashTheSite That’s not exactly up until the time of birth, because by about the middle of the 7th month babies can survive outside the mother without medical intervention.

I agree with you that as long as the child is parasitic on the mother there is an argument that the woman gets to decide, but ethnically with the medical advancements we have my line is drawn at 6 months or just short of 6 months maybe.

tinyfaery's avatar

I do. I’m not judging anyone’s decision.

Dutchess_III's avatar

3 of my grandkids were born 5 weeks early. I just can’t see them being aborted during those next five weeks if they had gone to term.

Pied_Pfeffer's avatar

How about if a fetus dies in the womb? A stillbirth can be aborted with medical help or the mother can wait until her body naturally aborts it.

rojo's avatar

Sure, our own government has been an avid supporter of state sponsored retroactive abortion for most of its existence and even today there are elements of the Republican party advocating re-activation to punish Iran.

LostInParadise's avatar

The philosopher Peter Singer has controversially stated that infanticide is justifiable in some cases. He says that a newborn does not yet have the cognitive ability to suffer. Singer is also an advocate for animal rights, saying that there are animals that have a much greater capability of suffering than a newborn human.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Well…not sure how much I agree with Singer. I mean, there are those that say they can’t feel pain, and that’s why they do circumcision with no anesthetic. How can they say that when, if prick the baby with a pin, it cries? Not that I would know, cuz I never pricked my babies with a pin, but I am assuming.

Anyway, I guess it depends on how you define “suffer.”

flo's avatar

@Yellowdog and @JLeslie I think @SmashTheState is being sarcastic or something like that.

flo's avatar

@Pied_Pfeffer A fetus dying in the womb is just natural death isn’t it? It is not an act of killing.

flo's avatar

@ragingloli and @rojo I’m trying to understand your answers.
@tinyfaery “I do. I’m not judging anyone’s decision.” Why would the women who decide to not abort, ever, be judged? They are choosing to value life. There is nothing to judge.

Dutchess_III's avatar

@tinyfaery means she is not judging anyone’s decision, whether to abort or not to abort. She wasn’t referring only to those who choose not to.

tinyfaery's avatar

^ yes

If someone feels the need to have a very late abortion I’m not judging. No one has the right to decide for another on such a personal issue.

And if I think about it I’m more judgemental of those who would bring a life into horrible situations when abortion is an option.

flo's avatar

@Dutchess_III kissing the feet of.
@tinyfaery …those who would bring a life into horrible situations when abortion is an option.” Adotion? What is that? Never heard of it. Let me go and google it.

ragingloli's avatar

@flo
The abrahamic god advocates until-birth abortion. There. I hope that I made my already obvious intent crystal clear.

flo's avatar

Ohhhhhh okay. The word “entity” led you to a god. Understandable. I was referring to a known (I put it that word in my detail) entity like a political party or organization or a candidate for president etc. So for example what does Trump think of adoption till birth?

flo's avatar

..Re. my post before last.
http://www.fluther.com/182921/is-there-any-entity-who-advocates-for-abortion-till-birth/#quip3135096
“Adoption” to correct my spelling error.

janbb's avatar

clear as mud

flo's avatar

By the way @ragingloli I thought “every woman that hath known man by lying with him.” means any woman who went to bed with a man. I don’t see the connection to pregnancy and or abortion.

ragingloli's avatar

“lying with” = “having sex with”
Corrobated by the “New Living Translation” version, which reads:
“So kill all the boys and all the women who have had intercourse with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.”

flo's avatar

That’s my point, differently worded. Where is the connection to abortion?

ragingloli's avatar

I explained that in my second post.
Read it.

flo's avatar

Okay I read it. “Post birth abortion”, the term doesn’t work. Abortion = ending a life before birth. Edited to add: Post birth, it’s murder, or homicide or whatever the correct term is.

flo's avatar

Anyway, what do the presidential candidates say about abortion?

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