Social Question

Dutchess_III's avatar

Have you seen any actual Christians on your facebook feed who have any thing to say about Starbuck's red cups?

Asked by Dutchess_III (42445points) November 10th, 2015

Or have you spoken with any Christians for whom it seems to actually be an issue?

I have several Christian friends on my friend’s list. The only people I have heard even mentioning the cups were those who were derisive about it.

I’m a Jelly, and just as ready to pounce on nonsense as anyone, but I haven’t said anything because I don’t see that it’s a actually an issue among Christians, at least not the ones I know. And, like a good Jelly, I want to make sure of my facts before I pounce.

What are your experiences with your Christian friends on this “issue?”

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65 Answers

Seek's avatar

Apart from being one degree of separation from the dipshit that started it all, I don’t know anyone that cares. Most people are willing to change the conversation to how bad Starbucks’ coffee tastes.

elbanditoroso's avatar

I have a number of Christian facebook friends, and they have not commented about this (that I have seen) either in support or against this silliness.

I did read a couple of essays in the last couple of days – Slate and Huffington, I think, where the writers feel that this whole thing is a big embarrassment for christians and doesn’t do their ‘cause’ much good.

zenvelo's avatar

No to posts complaining about the red cups. I have seen an early increase in the number of “Happy Holidays” haters.

It’s as bad as Christmas lights up too early! Don’t complain about losing “the war on Christmas” until the Thanksgiving turkey has been carved and the bones simmering for stock.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Yeah, I get to battle the War on Christmas shit, but I’m not going to go to battle over something that really appears to be a non issue among human Christians.

JLeslie's avatar

I don’t think so. I do have Christian friends who are offended by using Xmas for short and offended by Happy Holidays and that is all the same stupid shit in my opinion.

dammitjanetfromvegas's avatar

Same as @JLeslie for me.

Trump was in downstate Illinois last night and I read that he brought up the the issue. Here’s his statement. “I have one of the most successful Starbucks in Trump Tower,” Trump told the crowd. “Maybe we should boycott Starbucks? I don’t know. Seriously, I don’t care. By the way, that’s the end of that lease but who cares.”

dappled_leaves's avatar

Nope. The media reports and re-reports the story, and it seems much bigger than it is.

canidmajor's avatar

@JLeslie, point out to your friends that “Xmas” has been around forever, as the Greek “X” is the symbol for Christ, so means exactly the same thing as “Christmas”.
This is a somewhat simplified explanation.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Thanks for that @canidmajor.

I also have fundamental Christian friends who get bent out of shape by those who say “Happy Holidays,” and Merry Xmas, but not a single one of them have posted that they take issue with the Starbucks thing. Not one. So the people who are jumping on the opportunity to insult them are just being foolish.

Apparently_Im_The_Grumpy_One's avatar

As a Christian, I don’t much care what is on the cups (or incredibly over-priced and entirely too sugary coffee either). There are a number of large businesses that are pro-Christian and lean that way with some of their marketing too. Seems to be an even street at best in my opinion.

I think I am more offended by a Christian being petty enough to rant about this on a seemingly viral youtube video. We are supposed to be in this world but not of it. To me, this is being very of.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Yeah, and I haven’t seen any Christians ranting about it. All I’ve seen are the people who are jumping on it as an excuse to insult Christians, and I think that’s wrong.

janbb's avatar

Here’s an article from the Daily Kos about the self-described “Evangelical” who started the controversy. Most of the posts I’ve seen – and one I shared – satirizing the controversy have been posted by the liberal Christians that are on my page.

Hawaii_Jake's avatar

@janbb Thank you. I was just going to post that link. The man who started the outrage is a con-artist.

Buttonstc's avatar

Most of the Christians I currently know are of the progressive, intelligent variety and this gets a wry chuckle at most but generally not even a blip on the radar of meaningful.

There are far more important issues to be concerned about.

elbanditoroso's avatar

Interesting question. After lunch, I visited by FB page, and a guy that I know has, in fact, reposted and commented on the Starbucks cup. And this guy was following the party line – “they are insulting christians”.

So, sadly, I know one person who buys into it…

dappled_leaves's avatar

@janbb “Most of the posts I’ve seen – and one I shared – satirizing the controversy have been posted by the liberal Christians that are on my page.”

Same here. This is my favourite of those posts so far.

janbb's avatar

Well, apparently Donald Trump is calling for a boycott of Starbucks and promising that if he becomes President, we’ll all be saying “Merry Christmas” again. There is no room for satire any more.

Pachy's avatar

I have no interest in looking. In my opinion, considering all the real problems we have in the world, this ridiculous flap counts as just about the last item on the incalculably long list. I just don’t understand why followers of any faith can’t just keep their beliefs to themselves.

Pachy's avatar

@janbb, if I run into Trump during the holiday season (which I pray is never) I’ll say…. Chanukah Sameach.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Trump is an idiot.

JLeslie's avatar

@canidmajor I have in the past, so have many other people on Facebook and Fluther. The whole Xmas thing has come up so much the last 5 years that any adult who has taken issue with Xmas, and has bitched about it on Facebook, should know that explanation by now I would think. I remember the first time a friend wrote, “keep the Christ in Christmas,” I gave it a “like.” The holiday has become so commercialized that I certainly have no problem with a Christian friend wanting to get back to the meaning of the holiday in her religion. Then, eventually, I realized it’s about the whole Xmas thing. Total stupidity. Even if it has zero to do with the Greek, it’s shorthand. I’ve been using it since I was a child. Now in the time of txtspk it’s even more ridiculous to get uptight about it. If I could write Xah and people would know it’s Chanukah I’d happily use the abbreviation.

jca's avatar

To me, this is the biggest non -issue. (Yawn)

jerv's avatar

As I said elsewhere, I don’t have any friends like that, but I have seen it often enough to refute any notion that it’s totally fabricated.

My Facebook feed is mostly people who are anti-idiot first and foremost. The outspoken conservative friend I expected to buy into the conspiracy theory that the backlash over Cupgate is a liberal conspiracy to make Christians look stupid instead passed on the chance to bash liberals and went for the “Why is this even getting coverage?” angle instead.

I think it’s telling that Bristol Palin weighed in the way she did. While there is a bit of “tin foil hat” conspiracy theory to her words, her big message was, “Don’t buy the hype!”, and warning against assuming all Christians are like the Evangelist who kicked this mess off in the first place. She didn’t even address the cups directly. merely criticized the media “outrage” over the whole affair.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I discussed this briefly with a friend of mine, and she posted this on her timeline:

“Simple curiosity here but are any of my Christian friends or family upset that the new seasonal Starbucks coffee cup is red?”

All the answers were “No.” One girl said, “I have only seen an endless stream of non-religious friends complaining about it, haha” And that’s it, in a nutshell. Why are WE, the level headed, logical ones, making a mountain out of a mole hill for absolutely no reason? That’s the kind of behavior we expect from ultra conservative, paranoid people.

@jerv Oh, I have no doubt some attention seeking pastor did actually start it (if not Starbucks themselves) but my point is, the Christians are NOT jumping on it like they are so prone to doing.

And it’s funny, but whatever “media outrage” there is, isn’t coming from the Christians.

jerv's avatar

Not entirely true, @Dutchess_III.

Read what Faithful America has something to say and you’ll see that some Christians have some pretty strong opinions, just not the sort of outrage that you’d expect if this were all part of Obama’s secret plan.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I’m not sure what your link was suppose to show me. It didn’t indicate that all kinds of Christians are caught up in this. I mean, I found it surprising that not one of my Christian friends have seized on this opportunity. I mean, these are the same people who are convinced that gay people will destroy traditional marriage, and are outraged when people say, “Happy Holidays.” But absolutely no one on my feed has said anything that suggests they agree with it. I’ve checked with another person, and she hasn’t heard anything from her Christian friends, either.
The only posts I see are the non-religious insulting Christians over this.

I realize that my Facebook feed is not the be all and end all, but my experience, and others, suggests that the Christians aren’t flocking to the bandwagon on this, like they usually do.

ragingloli's avatar

Actual christians?
I do not know what Westboro Baptist Church thinks about this.

jca's avatar

I’m a Christian. Not a fundamentalist, not very religious at all, church once a year, if that, and I can assure you that I don’t give a fuck.

Macy’s holiday shopping bags are plain red every year and nobody says a word about it.

jerv's avatar

@Dutchess_III Precisely. Sure, some Christians are caught up in it, just not in the way you’d expect.

For the benefit of those that didn’t follow the link, the gist of it is a petition by Christians that reads;

“Christmas is a time to reflect on how God came into the world as a vulnerable child, not an opportunity to scrutinize corporate seasonal decorations. As Christians, we don’t care what Starbucks is doing with its coffee cups – but we do want the media to stop letting religious-right fanatics speak for our faith.”

It seem that the only one’s really caught up in it are the politically conservative people trying to demonize Liberals (and RINOs) who refuse to drink the “Obama is the anti-Christ!” kool-aid.

Banjo_Pickin_Appalachian_Wizar's avatar

The actual Christians I know protest Starbucks for being a player in the satanically-influenced capitalist system, but I guess that’s what I get for hanging out with Christian anarchists.

crazyandbeautiful's avatar

I am not offended by this. I am a Catholic. I think everyone needs to take a chill pill and relax. Look I was just at Starbucks over the weekend. I was not even paying attention to the damn cups. I just wanted my latte and to get out of there.

If this is such an issue. Buy a damn red cup that has a Christmas tree and the words Merry Christmas and put your coffee in it. There problem solved. I’m off to bed.

Dutchess_III's avatar

@jerv From what I’m seeing, the only one’s caught up in this are the liberals and they’re throwing insults at Christians for being so dumb. However, it’s in a void. A total void. Only two of my super conservative Christian friends have said anything about the situation,and that was to agree it’s ridiculous.
The thing is, it’s those same people who run amok yelling about keeping the 10 Commandments in court houses, and putting prayer “back” is school (it never was in school to begin with,) and want creation taught. I really expected my feed to be flooded with Christian outrage…but it wasn’t. Only flooded by liberals insulting the Christians.

elbanditoroso's avatar

@Dutchess_III – again, a guy I know took it very seriously. He is a churchgoing southern baptist and he had it all over his FB page.

(Central Georgia is where he lives)

Dutchess_III's avatar

Do you have more than that one guy who usually posts silly religious memes about the “War on Christmas,” and the horrible places that support gay marriage and stuff? Or is he normally the only one in your friends list who ever does it?

jerv's avatar

@Dutchess_III My liberal friends either respect non-batshit Christians or have had plenty of other reasons to insult Christians and thus left Cupgate alone.

The only ones I’ve seen take it seriously (friend or otherwise) are Christians who are looking for an excuse to feel offended, Conservatives looking for some way to use Cupgate to smear Liberals, and people who transcend political/religious classification with their own special brand of crazy.

Pandora's avatar

I’ve only had two Christian friends who agree with the ban. The rest believe it is a bunch of bull. I think those who bother to actually read beyond the headlines see this as being stupid. But unfortunately there will always be those who read the headlines, and all actual thoughts stop processing because they want to rush to the defense of Christians, without really bothering to stop and wonder if they are actually on the right side.

jca's avatar

I think in the wake of the Paris terrorist attacks, this Starbucks cups crap is soo petty on the scale of things.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Everything is petty after that, @jca.

There is a meme going around. It’s a picture of an empty desert, with the caption “Group photo of Christians who are offended by the red cup.” I shared it.
I want to snag that photo and re-caption it “Group photo of Christians who find the phrase “Happy Holidays” offensive.” That business is just as dumb, but many more Christians light up about it every year.
Maybe this cup thing could allow them to stop and reevaluate exactly what really offends them, and what is just thrown around with no individual thought.

JLeslie's avatar

@Dutchess_III I think part of the whole Merry Christmas thing is Christians don’t want to be told they can’t say it. Part of it is some feel like the country is becoming more and more secular, and some think non-Christians are offended by Merry Christmas, which isn’t the case. When someone recommends Happy Holidays it isn’t because they are offended, or because they want to get rid of Christmas, it’s because they want to be inclusive.

There have been Q’s on Fluther where people are pretty annoyed at the suggestion of saying Happy Holidays. One Jelly I remember just couldn’t understand what was “wrong” with Merry Christmas. I pointed out in a place like NYC or Boca Raton, FL probably about 1 in 8 and 1 in 4 respectively are Jewish. In NYC I think the stat is 1 in 2 “white” people are Jewish. She didn’t know how high the stats were. Those stats may have changed a little over the years, I haven’t looked it up recently.

White is in quotes, because they mean European-Americans, but of course other groups are considered white.

Dutchess_III's avatar

But just the very idea that they think they’ll somehow be stopped from saying “Merry Christmas” is absurd. Absolutely absurd.

And the idea that anyone could be offended by someone else saying “Merry Christmas” to them, is just as absurd.

It’s all facebook bullshit, crap some bored person made up to pass around.

JLeslie's avatar

I don’t know if it’s fact or fiction that some companies ask their employees to use Happy Holidays.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Well, I’ve never worked in such a place so….

canidmajor's avatar

Well, I have worked in places that request that, but I suspect, @Dutchess_III, that I have lived in places with much greater cultural diversity than you have.

Was this the question to which you referred? (It came up first when I entered “Merry Christmas” into the search bar).
There were a couple of people on that Q who seemed to be pretty annoyed at the use of “Merry Christmas”. It’s an interesting discussion.

jca's avatar

Where I work, we have a huge “holiday party” where hundreds of people attend (members of the organization and their families and friends, politicians, etc.). We call it a “holiday party” but on the invitation signs that are hanging up at the work sites, I noticed a lot of them have crossed out “Holiday party” and written in “Christmas party.”

Seek's avatar

How petty.

JLeslie's avatar

@canidmajor That’s one of the Q’s. I skimmed the link you provided. Did it talk about on there how some Christians feel it makes sense to wish Jewish people a Merry Christmas because Christmas is their (the person doing the wishing) holiday? That confounds me. Don’t get me wrong, I’m fine with receiving a Christmas card, I don’t expect any friend to buy an extra card for me for their seasonal mailings, but face to face they usually wish me a Happy Chanukah if they know I’m Jewish. I don’t wish Christians Happy Chanukah, that makes no sense to me. Probably over 75% of them won’t even realize it’s Chanukah. I also don’t tell an Australian friend who lives and has always lived in Australia Happy Thanksgiving on American Thanksgiving.

canidmajor's avatar

Well, I didn’t read it carefully, mostly perused lightly, but I noticed that a few were quite annoyed by people saying “Merry Christmas” and others made a point of saying that they don’t mind, but people should say “Happy Holidays” anyway because some might be offended.
I guess I’m fortunate in that I only know one person who is consistently offended by everything and I don’t see her anymore.

JLeslie's avatar

I don’t think it’s only about some people might be offended. It’s also about trying to enlighten some people that there is more than just Christianity in America and in the world. However, those people who think it makes sense for them to wish a Jew Merry Christmas, not simply because during the holiday season it’s just what they say basically out of habit and well wishes, but rather because it just is logical to them, then there doesn’t seem to be much that can be done about that. They just have a very different way of looking at it.

Dutchess_III's avatar

The only thing I’ve noticed is that at the stores some people tend to yell, “Merry Christmas! quite loudly, when they’re finished checking out and ostensibly talking only to the clerk. But some of them shout it, as if daring someone to do or say something. Of course, no one does, and they just look like a fool. But they feel all brave and righteous inside, though, I’m sure.

Banjo_Pickin_Appalachian_Wizar's avatar

@Dutchess_III a girl about my age did that to me at my day job the other evening. I just kinda stammered “you-you-you too”

Dutchess_III's avatar

Yeah. I just look at them like they’re a little crazy and say, “Merry Christmas to you too.” It’s just words, people!
Wait.”...your day job the other evening?”

JLeslie's avatar

Not just words. Remember, Christians are supposed to witness. Words are how they witness. It is their way of showing God they are good Christians.

Dutchess_III's avatar

To me, “Merry Christmas” is just words.

JLeslie's avatar

To you. To me too. Not to people who feel like their religious practice is constantly being trampled on. Not to some of them anyway.

elbanditoroso's avatar

It’s the same dynamic we see all the time. If a person wants to be insulted then they will find some reason to be. As other have responded, some Christians like the pose of “we’re being persecuted” because it gives meaning to their lives. That doesn’t mean that it’s true, just that they’ve made the choice to be offended, as a means of self-worth or self-justification.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Well, if someone snarls “Merry Christmas” at me, like some sort of challenge, they should be mollified by my saying “Merry Christmas to you, too.” But somehow I don’t think they would be. They prefer the “persecution.” Well what @elbanditoroso snuck in there as I was typing!

jca's avatar

People snarl “Merry Christmas at you, @Dutchess?

Dutchess_III's avatar

As I said above, this time of year most people just say, “Merry Christmas,” but some say it very loudly, as if to challenge anyone in the store to challenge them.

Below that Fiddle said he’d just had a woman do that while he was at his day job in the evening.

JLeslie's avatar

When I was younger I don’t remember Merry Christmas being said so much in every day interactions during the Christmas season. Maybe because I was younger with less opportunity to hear it?

I worked in retail since the age of 14, and I don’t remember we employees saying it all the time.

I really think the whole Christian persecution thing has ramped way up. Or, maybe it’s just because I grew up in the northeast and mid-Atlantic in very diverse areas, and it definitely is different in the Bible Belt. Now add social media and it’s like having the Bible Belt everywhere.

Dutchess_III's avatar

It’s Facebook, @JLeslie. That’s all. I really think it’s games that bored people start to see how many people they can manipulate.

JLeslie's avatar

Nah. I lived in the Bible Belt. A lot of them do feel persecuted. The religious ones. The ones who go to church and also hear it from their preachers.

Plus, they see prayer being taken away from government meetings, and prayer being stopped in schools, and schools not having Christmas songs anymore and it freaks them out.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Oh, sure. We had that nonsense in the 80’s and 90’s too, when I was a practicing Christian. People getting upset over “X-mas” and stuff. But I just don’t think it was so intense and so widely prevalent then. I don’t think the secular population was really aware of any of it. (“Widely prevalent”....is that redundant? Where’s Gail?)

JLeslie's avatar

Right, I would say people like me had no idea Christians out there were so upset about that stuff. In fact, here today I had no idea it went back that many years until you just told me. I thought that was all in the last 10 years.

Seek's avatar

As a young child I lived in New York City .

Most signs said “season’s greetings”.

I don’t recall this affecting my jubilation at all.

JLeslie's avatar

Seasons Greetings. I remember that too. I also remember people sometimes saying, “have a nice holiday.”

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