Have you been targeted for this?

I was under the impression that body shaming was in regression. Do you have anything to support this?

I’ve only received “reverse body-shaming.” My experience has also been like @filmfann says, that body acceptance of heavier types is on the rise right now. Unfortunately for some reason, some people think that accepting heavier bodies means that we have to start dissing skinny women by saying things like “real women have curves” or “if I had sex with that I’d be afraid of breaking it” etc etc. These things aren’t as hurtful as the abuse that heavier people have had to put up with, but since I’m a bit insecure about being severely underweight, it’s still not fun.

No one can shame what they can’t see.
If you do not want your body shape critiqued, don’t post body shots of yourself on social media.

Chances are, no matter how ideal your body shape, if you post pictures of it on the internet, you are going to get negative feedback.
Even more so if you post in what appears to be a boastful or smug way.

Newton’s Third Law of Motion is alive and well on the internet: “For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.”

Ah @ibstubro, in my case at least, the shaming statements that have hurt me have not been directed towards pictures of my own body, which I don’t post everywhere, but general sentiments of skinny people (of which I know I undeniably am one) or comments directed towards images of people who have a similar body type to mine.

Though obviously on the internet there is always the option of “just don’t read the things that upset you.”

Sticks and stones, @Mariah.

No one looks exactly like you but you.
If you’re posting pictures of yourself and receiving hurtful feedback, stop posting pictures.
If you’re making hurtful comparisons with yourself on the internet, stop making comparisons.

Is there any place on the planet that I, as a middle aged white male, am not considered fair game?

Honestly, I seriously doubt body shaming is any worse among teenagers than it has been since “teenagers” became idle enough to be recognized as a distinct group.

I did not think that I had but I have noticed recently that I am being addressed as “sir” as in: “Yes, sir” or “Need help with that? Sir” and I am beginning to think it has to do with the grey, thinning hair and wrinkles.

So, maybe?

@Mariah Oh, I know, right? It’s like….they always think they have to build up one segment of humans by insulting the opposite segment. I’m at a supposed “perfect” BMI. I, personally, would llke to lose about 10 pounds, but overall, I have no problem with my weight.

I’m pretty sure that overweight people really aren’t “OK with it,” no matter how many times they hear the message. If they were, they wouldn’t comment on how much weight they lost recently, there wouldn’t be so much focus on it, there wouldn’t be diet foods, there wouldn’t be unrelenting ads about losing weight, about working out, ads about 0 grams of sugar or fat, social bashing of fast foods and their supposed contribution to obesity. None of that would even be in place.

Years ago after I had my daughter and was about 40 lbs. overweight my ex SIL actually said to me ” sooo, do you plan on being overweight forever?!” I was floored, but, you know what? About a year later I had lost all the weight and looked amazing and she had gained about 40 lbs. after being very active and athletic.
I just pranced around in my cute little short dress and enjoyed the karma. lol

I always like to reply to those that are body shaming types…” well, it is a lot easier to lose weight than it is to change a shitty personality!” That usually shuts them up fast.
Now that I am in my mid-50’s I have gained some weight again and am actively working on it now. I have the utmost empathy for those that struggle with their weight, whether that is 15 lbs. or 150. Some people just have to wrok a lot harder than others to maintain a healthy weight.

@ibstubro They might not look exactly like me but it doesn’t take any mental gymnastics to see a comment on a skinny, flat-chested person’s photo “Someone give her a sandwich” “Why does anybody find this attractive? You can see her bones” “I’d titty-fuck her but my dick isn’t three yards wide” (I couldn’t make this shit up if I tried) and know that they’d say the same thing if the photo was me. All those things apply to me too.

It’s not like I’m sitting in a corner crying about it all the time, I know I can just click away when I see it, the attitude is still disheartening. I don’t know why you seem to think I’m not allowed to be upset by this.

I’m not dis-allowing you anything, @Mariah. You’re entitled to be upset by anything you like. I mean, I hate it that you’re upset by that shit, but I’m not trying to tell you that you shouldn’t be.

What I’m saying is that I’ve never seen or heard that crap. It’s not something that I’ve ever seen on the internet. Does that mean it doesn’t exist? NO. Does that mean it’s avoidable? Yes.

The question is about being ”targeted”. I don’t see how anyone is “targeted” unless something is directed at them specifically.

I fully admit that I’m not versed in teenagers targeting each other for body shaming on social networking sites. I avoid ‘them’.

Maybe you haven’t seen it because people don’t criticize men’s bodies like they do women’s.

Well, you’ve never seen or heard that crap because you aren’t a member of the group being targeted @ibstubro.

And certainly entire groups can be targeted. Jiminy, look at the many insults hurled at all Muslims. All of the stereotyping of blacks (They’re all liars and thieves.) All the stereo typing of women (none are smarter than men.)
Things are changing, yes, but you can be a member of a group in which that entire group is targeted.

Targeted:
brad pitt is soo frickin ugly, i cant believe how many people like him!

I’m confused about the purpose of the link. Is that supposed to be proof that men get criticized for their appearance as much as women do?

You want proof that it happens? Here’s a goddamn fluther link where people are talking just like my quotes above. And fluther is one of the most polite places on the web that I’ve ever seen.

http://www.fluther.com/18619/do-you-find-curvy-women-or-slender-women-more-attractive-follow/

Showing that people can be targeted individually proves absolutely nothing @ibstubro.

I don’t doubt that you’re offended, @Mariah.
I don’t doubt that it happens to thin women/men, average women/men, and heavy women/men.
I don’t doubt that it happens to young and old, people of all colors, tall and short, etc. etc.

What I don’t understand is how you feel any of it targets you personally unless it’s linked to you, specifically, in some way.

I’m not dismissing or disallowing your feelings or your hurt in any way.
What I’m curious about is how you feel you’re the target.

In most of the cases it appears to me that the target is other similar people. People banding together to celebrate their likeness, not alienate everyone different.

To me it’s like saying that Black Pride targets Whites.

@ibstubro, if people are attacking and insulting a particular group of people, say very slender people or overweight people, anyone who fits into that group (or perceives themselves as fitting into that group) will feel those insults. They don’t have to name the individual. They’re tarring all people who fit into that group with those descriptions and statements.

If you are an overweight person reading the comments after an article about obesity, nobody knows about your individual problems, attempts to lose weight etc., but the cruel comments and generalisations about fat people still hurt the individual reading them. It suggests how other people view and judge you as a person. Rather than you as a person, it suggests people see only ‘thin’, ‘fat’, ‘black’, ‘Muslim’ and invariably attach a range of negative and stereotypical descriptors to the group you belong to.

@ibstubro The huge, HUGE difference is that black pride is about celebrating black people, not putting down white people. I am SUPER fine with celebrating heavy bodies. I am NOT okay with doing so in a way that makes people with other body types feel bad about themselves.

I understand that I read the question hastily and perhaps I have not been “targeted” personally. I’m sorry if that makes my answers irrelevant for this particular thread. My experiences still exist and are valid.

I was specifically addressing the question, @Earthbound_Misfit, “Have you been targeted for this?”
”...an overweight person reading the comments after an article about obesity…” is not, in my opinion, being targeted. I understand that if there are insensitive and hurtful comments there, an overweight person might be hurt, but that’s not the same as targeted.

I don’t feel like discussing our differences or preferences:
Do you find curvy women or slender women more attractive?
targets anyone.

I understand what you’re saying, @Mariah, and I’m sorry you take those comments personally, and are hurt by them.
Don’t read them!
It’s like me and horror movies. I used to love them. Then one day I realized I was having nightmares that were re-running the horror images. Today I’m willfully ignorant of the latest in horror. And happier for it!

Now. If you told me a bald guy joke, would I be your hairy co-conspirator, your chrome-domed target, or just the recipient of a joke?
If it was funny, I’d laugh.
If it was mean, I’d tell you it was mean.
I wouldn’t feel targeted, in any case, because you don’t know me well enough to take aim.

You’re really fixated on the word “targeted.” I already told you I read the question hastily and that I understand “targeted” is not the right term for my experiences.

It’s not a matter of me feeling personally attacked. When someone says “skinny women look like little boys and are not attractive” my feeling isn’t “how dare you say something mean about me.” The sentiment is more of a feeling of insecurity in knowing that there is a good portion of the population who judges me as unfit to be a partner, unfit to be a woman even, because of the way my body looks. Even though they weren’t talking about me specifically, I still know that is how they feel about me, because they said that’s how they feel about skinny women and I am a skinny woman.

I don’t go seeking it out. I run into the sentiment unexpectedly all the time on random places all around the internet, even Fluther. I get that I can look away – I said that already a bunch of times! I don’t understand why you care so much about how I choose to handle it. Like I said, I’m not in a corner crying about it, it really doesn’t hurt me so much that I need to quarantine myself from the internet.

My opinion is that the onus isn’t on me to look away, just as I wouldn’t just tell someone to ignore racism or sexism towards them. I’d rather do what I can to encourage people not to be mean about others’ body types.

Anyway, now that we’ve derailed the hell out of this thread….....sorry OP.

And @ibstubro, victimisation and targeting are not only enacted on an individual level. Groups of people can and are ‘targeted’ and ‘shamed’ by other groups. Just because someone doesn’t say ‘Earthbound, you are a lazy, good for nothing because you don’t weigh 130llbs’ doesn’t mean I won’t feel shamed and targeted by comments I hear, read and am exposed to that related to weight in the course of my day. We don’t live in vacuums. Such messages and shaming are everywhere and they are impossible to avoid. The messages are often institutionalised and affect our lives in many different ways.

You’re really fixated on the word “targeted.” @Earthbound_Misfit
@Mariah already told us she read the question hastily and understands “targeted” is not the right term for her experiences.

@Mariah – just leave it. Some poke sharp sticks for fun- regardless the material or facts. It’s called baiting. Some say clueless. Boredom? Ego boosting?
Regardless.
Mind over matter. If you don’t mind, it doesn’t really matter.
Both you and @Earthbound_Misfit made eloquent responses.
The horse is dead- no use beating it anymore.

I wasn’t planning on replying to the thread anymore, but thanks.

@ibstubro, the question itself, “Do you find curvy women or slender women more attractive?” doesn’t target any one group. Some of the answers do.

” ...my girlfriend has curves and I love it. I like a real woman.”(emphasis mine.)

“f you can’t get supermodels, you settle for fat chicks.”

How?

I can’t believe I have to explain this to you.

“I like real woman,” implies that slender women aren’t “real” women, somehow. They’re lacking in some way. That targets all slender women (like me.)

“If you can’t get supermodels, you settle for fat chicks.” “Settling” for something implies you take 2nd best, or third or fourth. It implies you can’t get the “best,” so you “settle” for “substandard.” This targets all “fat chicks.”

So, if if Rick said “My wife has some gray hair and some character wrinkles and I love it. I like a real woman,” he’s targeted all young women?

“If you can’t get supermodels, you settle for fat chicks.” is insulting to all but 20 women on the face of the Earth?

Yes @ibstubro, it is mean to imply that some women are not “real” women.

The second statement is offensive to overweight people. That person was clearly using “supermodel” in a figurative sense to mean very attractive people, not actual supermodels. The implication of course is that overweight people cannot be very attractive.

Like @Dutchess_III said, I’m surprised this isn’t obvious.

@ibstubro Yes. Well, exactly what @Mariah said.

And the dude using the word “Supermodel” wasn’t using it literally. He was referring to regular women who happen to look like this (That’s my niece, BTW, and I DO have her permission to share her pictures.)

Or maybe my mom. (She died so she don’t care.)

OR, maybe, my sister and me.

Wait wait! Maybe he was talking about my daughter!

None of us are on your list of super models.

That’s just patently ridiculous. If you go looking for offense, of course it’s not hard to find.

” ...my girlfriend has curves and I love it. I like a real woman.”
Targets one person. The girlfriend. To me it’s obvious that the speaker has a girlfriend they’re proud and supportive of.
The statement isn’t even “I like real women.”
So, by your definition, by supporting the curvy girlfriend all other women are alienated.

Sheesh. So if I say, “Hey, that short brown hair looks great on you!” I have alienated everyone without short brown hair?

That’s insupportable.
I’m surprised this isn’t obvious.

Nope.

The offensive part of the statement isn’t “I like.” I don’t give a shit what one person’s personal prefereces are. The offensive part is implying that women who don’t meet one’s personal preferences are somehow not women.

If “real women have curves” and I don’t have curves (I don’t) what does that make me? A man? A prepubescent girl (I am 23 and went throguh puberty 10 years ago)? A “fake” woman (what does that even mean)? Can you really not see how this could be hurtful?

@Mariah Some men willfully refuse to understand. I suppose some women like it, but it’s not my cup of tea. I like my men educated and intelligent.

Well, Mariah, I honestly see your point. I always have.

My point is more toward intent. I think the ‘curvy’ poster was trying to be supportive of a girlfriend that does not meet the ‘heroin chic’ ideal for supermodels these days. I don’t think that should hurt or offend you. Just as I don’t think that woman should be offended if your guy posts that he likes skinny women.

There are plenty of people out there trying to give offense. I don’t think you have to look for it. Choose your battles?

There was a Trump question here a while back and people were trying to hedge on whether his numerous statements about women were misogynistic. You know, ‘Carly’s face’, “Hillary bathroom disgusting’, ‘Meagan’s blood’.
Now THAT is just bullshit. Donald Trump is a fucking misogynist pig. And I posted that, with details, every time someone tried to play the apologist for Trump. He’s a PIG.
THAT is a battle I’ll take on and hammer into the dust. THAT pisses me off, and degrades our society.

Honestly, @Mariah, we’re not at odds here. You’re young, smart and educated. I don’t think you should allow random posts on the internet upset you.

I have faced some obstacles in life, and if you’d like to discuss that PM, holler.

I don’t personally believe that the existence of bigger issues nullifies the reality of the smaller issues. For example, I am capable of caring both about the plights of women in third world countries and also about the much smaller but still existent issues that women face in America. I agree Trump’s misogyny is a much bigger issue but it doesn’t make all the smaller issues disappear. Like I said earlier in the thread, I’m not extremely upset by this, not lying in bed crying about it, just think it’s worth pointing as being asshole-ish behavior.

Alright. Let’s just let it rest then. I’m really sorry about what ended up happening to this thread.

Personally, I think the thread turned out better than the OP ever hoped, @Mariah.
Almost all the decent questions veer off at some point.

I am late to this but I agree with @Dutchess_III and @Mariah. The girlfriend comment would not be offensive if it were just left at “My girlfriend has curves and I love it.”

^^^^ Exactly.

And the ”...settle for fat chicks” comment was completely offensive.

So, “I like a real woman” is an offensive statement?

^^as opposed to the inflatable kind?^^

Sounds to me like someone is a little Vynophobic….

It’s the “I like a real woman” after the “My girlfriend has curves and I love it.” The implication is that a woman without curves is not a real woman.

I say this not as a very skinny woman, either. I’m not coming from a standpoint of being personally insulted at being called not a real woman. I’m quite curvy myself. As I explained, it’s not the “real woman” statement, it’s the “real woman” in conjunction with the “my girlfriend has curves and I love it” that’s the issue.

Either you contextualize “I like a real woman”, or you do not.
Either both statements are in support of a curvy girlfriend, or they are not.

The implication, to me, is that if the woman in question was not curvy, she would not be the girlfriend.

I find it offensive that @Dutchess_III said, “men willfully refuse to understand”.
@Mariah “I don’t give a shit what one person’s personal prefereces are.”

Offense is anywhere you want to make/take it if you remove the context.

I was laughing about this on the news feed today…
Try to find Pope Francis’ comments in Mexico about Trump and contraception in context.
It’s nearly impossible to find any of it in anything resembling a transcription form. Everyone is taking snippets out of context and writing headlines. Because, we all know, if it panders to your prejudice, that makes it so.

@ibstubro: Here are a bunch of women saying it’s offensive and explaining why. Why would someone not just leave it at “My girlfriend has curves and I love it?”

Why is a person’s ‘label’ sometimes deemed as a valid dismissal to any argument?

The discussion was pretty much between @Mariah and I, @jca, and just as things settled out, in the 11th hour, you decided to stir it up.

The question was “Have you been targeted for this?” as @Mariah has repeatedly regretted derailing.
So, @jca, you feel targeted by someone saying, “I like a real woman”?
Because that is the question.

I mean, what’s your motivation, @jca?

Did you think that you were going to turn the tide by repeating the same argument?

I can’t believe I have to explain this to you.
“Offense is anywhere you want to make/take it if you remove the context.”

@ibstubro: What’s my motivation? I am answering a question that I followed but did not really read until late in the thread. I didn’t stir things up, they were already stirred up, it seems. As often happens on Fluther, threads get derailed and take a meandering path. The discussion was between you and @mariah but again, as Fluther does, other people can weigh in.

You don’t have to explain it to me, you’re explaining it to those who agree that the statement about the real woman is offensive, and as I explained, it’s in conjunction with the previous sentence that is what is offensive. Apparently, three agree with my explanation.

So, what’s your point, @jca?

You re-opened the debate with the exact same discussion in the exact same words and you got 3 GA.
I’m sure there are other FB GAs you can bring in.

Why would someone not just leave it at “My girlfriend has curves and I love it?”

There. I made an equal contribution. GA away.

My point being you didn’t seem to believe it could be offensive, and I was explaining how, @ibstubro.

”FB GA’s?” My assumption was two of the three GA’s were probably @Dutchess_III and @Mariah, since we’re all trying to tell you the same thing.

Well, yes, you all have certainly made me sorry that I posted to this question.

“I’m not dis-allowing you anything, @Mariah. You’re entitled to be upset by anything you like. I mean, I hate it that you’re upset by that shit, but I’m not trying to tell you that you shouldn’t be.”
“What I’m saying is that I’ve never seen or heard that crap. It’s not something that I’ve ever seen on the internet. Does that mean it doesn’t exist? NO. Does that mean it’s avoidable? Yes.”
“The question is about being ”targeted”. I don’t see how anyone is “targeted” unless something is directed at them specifically.”
“I fully admit that I’m not versed in teenagers targeting each other for body shaming on social networking sites. I avoid ‘them’.”

What I had intended was to support @Mariah, a beautiful young lady that seemed to be hurt by anonymous posts about body weight on the internet.
I repeatedly tried to take that discussion private with her, and I repeatedly tried to keep the discussion on the track of targeted (“a place, thing, or person at which an attack is aimed) and away from offensive (“causing displeasure or resentment”)

”@Mariah already told us she read the question hastily and understands “targeted” is not the right term for her experiences.”

So, what are you adding to the discussion, @jca?
And what’s my “take-away” supposed to be from this question? @Mariah. @Dutchess_III. @Earthbound_Misfit & @jca?

From my joining a question about teen body shaming to being told I don’t ”...seem to believe it could be offensive.”, what lesson would you have me, and men like me, learn from this question?

@ibstubro: Why are you acting like you’re so mad at me? I admitted from the get-go that I was late to the discussion, and I said that I agreed that the statement was offensive. From there you argued that you didn’t see what was offensive about it, and I explained why it was, and pointed out that others agreed. You argued that I didn’t answer the original question, and that I was stirring up shit. I explained that sometimes on Fluther, questions take meandering paths and again explained that I was trying to point something out to you, something that others tried to explain, too.

What do I hope you learn from the question? I hope you understand what at least three people are trying to explain to you, so that maybe you might avoid offending someone. That’s all. I’m hoping the others weigh in with their thoughts.

I’m sorry if it’s upsetting to you that I was late to the discussion. I am sometimes busy at work or with other things going on and might click on “follow” but am not always available for writing much. That’s another thing about Fluther, that we come here when we can, unlike a job where we may have to attend at a certain set time.

Have I felt personally targeted? No. Not by the internet or media anyway. My husband and mother have been known to make a comment or two about my weight. Is there all sorts of negative messages out there regarding women and their bodies? Yes. If you read a negative comment and identify with it, it can easily weigh (no pun intended) on you. Especially, if those same remarks are repeated many times by different people. Also, if it’s exactly the one thing you feel most insecure about for whatever reason, it’s harder to shake it off. We all have a few things like that I think. I find that usually it has to do with something from childhood.

I think @Mariah made some very good points and gave some really good examples. The articles, commercials, ads, and stories she reads are probably very different than you @ibstubro. Like, my husband will ask me if I saw the funny new Budweiser commercial. Nope. I almost never see beer commercials. I’m not watching sports and car shows like him. He probably hasn’t seen the tampon ad I just came across either.

Plus, @Mariah is younger than us so her peers on Facebook are more likely to be more obsessed with looks and clothing, although plenty of older people are too. Anyway, it’s not easy for women to avoid these messages. We want to be sexy and attracted and desired, especially when we are young, so we hear what is said about those things, we are more tuned into it. Just like if you are thinking if buying a Ford Focus, all of a sudden you see them everywhere in the road. The brain is a funny thing.

What I would add is men feel it more in the way of height and a full head of hair I think. They also have more if a burden of being financially successful to feel attractive.

It’s all about how society decides whether you are good enough or not.

If someone likes curves that preference is fine, I prefer men with dark hair. It doesn’t mean I find men with blonde hair unattractive, it’s just not my preference at a glance, although in the last ten years even I have changed regarding this, seeing more beauty in general all around me. As far as women’s bodies, there are many shapes and sizes I find beautiful.

I’m guilty of talking about weight. Often it’s about myself. Things like: I wish I weighed 15 pounds less, I’m a size 10 in a lot of clothing now. I guess indirectly I’m saying 10 is big. Am I offending size 10’s? If I say I don’t want to be too skinny. Did I offend a very thin person? I’m really only thinking of myself. I have friends who are 2’s and friends who are 14’s and I don’t care what size they are. Many of them look great, and they wear their size well. If I’m worried about their health that’s another thing, but even then I probably wouldn’t say anything unless they brought it up. Plus, pretty much any size from 2–14 (I use this range because it is typical average miss sizing) isn’t so far from normal weight that it’s very worrisome in my mind assuming they are near average height.

I see my husband’s family obsess about inches you can pinch on themselves and other people and I don’t get it. I’m sure they think I’m fat right now, but I think they are vain and superficial to an extreme that is annoying to me, and just to be more mean on my part they spend too much money on their “show” in my opinion so I pretty easily push their comments out of my mind. They never say anything directly to me, but I hear them about everyone else, and you can bet they say something about me when I’m not there.

Was that your intention @ibstubro? It felt more like you were lecuturing me on what is or is not reasonable to feel. I think that is why several women felt the need to come to my defense – by showing they agreed, they were telling me that I am not unreasonable.

@jca is well within her rights to comment in the thread whenever she likes.

Where did I question @jca‘s right to post?
Have I accused her of harassing me?
Have I told anyone “get off my ass”?

No, in fact, you considered an overabundance of political correctness on my part as “lecturing”.

Did I not try to reach out to you by PM, @Mariah, and try to explain the misunderstanding?
My goal in posting was to try to empower you. To tell you “Fuck the haters until they target you personally, and then give em all you got!”
If you’d posted a link where someone had targeted you I would have been all over it.

”@Mariah already told us she read the question hastily and understands “targeted” is not the right term for her experiences.”
But no.

So I feel targeted for my good intentions.
I’m entitled.

@ibstubro: You wrote repeatedly ”The discussion was pretty much between @Mariah and I, @jca, and just as things settled out, in the 11th hour, you decided to stir it up.”

”I mean, what’s your motivation, @jca?
”Did you think that you were going to turn the tide by repeating the same argument?”
“_So, what’s your point, @jca?
“You re-opened the debate with the exact same discussion in the exact same words and you got 3 GA.”
”I’m sure there are other FB GAs you can bring in.”
”So, what are you adding to the discussion, @jca?”

All of the above seems to be questioning my right to discuss on this thread.

@ibstubro, You said, “I find it offensive that @Dutchess_III said, “...men willfully refuse to understand”.” You did? You found it offensive? Why? I wasn’t targeting you! I was referring to “some” men. And I actually said “some men..

Also, @jca, @Mariah, and I are all on the same page.

Guys,

Do you want to go to timeout!

All of you, say you’re sorry and go to another question.

~ Sticks tongue out at @rojo. ~ YOU’RE NOT THE BOSS OF ME!!

Welcome to Fluther @imrainmaker :D