General Question

elbanditoroso's avatar

Is it Obama's fault that Trump is being successful? What strange logic !

Asked by elbanditoroso (30004points) March 4th, 2016

What do you think of this rationale for Trump’s success?

article

Failed governor Jindal thinks that Obama was too intellectual and thoughtful (read: smart), and that’s what forced the Republicans to turn to an idiot to lead them.

How’s that for convoluted logic?

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38 Answers

JLeslie's avatar

No.

But, I do blame Clinton for Bush winning on his family values schtick. Clinton screwing around in office provided the perfect opportunity to appeal to Christian conservatives on that one thing alone.

dappled_leaves's avatar

A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.

flo's avatar

Please Watch John Oliver who in this case he did a good job.

RedDeerGuy1's avatar

What does logic have to do with politics?

Cruiser's avatar

@elbanditoroso I do not see any of your remarks in your OP represented at all in Jindals statement and he did not call him “intellectual and thoughtful”...in fact he called him “weak” and “no Drama Obama”. I wholeheartedly agree with him. He is spot on correct.

“I believe that voters tend to act in open-seat presidential elections to correct for the perceived deficiencies of the incumbent,” argues Jindal, “After seven years of the cool, weak and endlessly nuanced ‘no drama Obama,’ voters are looking for a strong leader who speaks in short, declarative sentences.””

jaytkay's avatar

_ I do blame Clinton for Bush winning on his family values schtick_

I blame Al Gore for not having Bill Clinton campaign for him.

Bill Clinton was the most popular president in modern times (though it’s forbidden to mention this in the press).

Even during the Lewinsky scandal, Clinton had better approval ratings than Reagan.

Jak's avatar

Exactly what one would expect considering the source.

Jaxk's avatar

Wow, your interpretation of what Jinel said is way off. If I might quote the article he called Obama “a wonkish, emotionally controlled law professor”.

Putting the misrepresentation aside, There is a good argument to be made that since Obama had absolutely no experience at all, many would not want another ‘on the job training’ type of president. Instead of another law professor, maybe someone that had actually done something.

ibstubro's avatar

Yes, I think Obama had a lot to do with the rise of Donald Trump.
Disclaimer, I did not read the linked article.

Obama was elected on Change.
CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN
CHANGE WE NEED
CHANGE THAT WORKS FOR YOU
And you know what?
NOTHING FUCKING CHANGED

I think Americans wanted some heads openly butted and some of the deep-seated problems in the American political process addressed.
NOTHING FUCKING CHANGED

Okay, so the Democrats had their shot at change while the Republicans ran the most whitebread of the establishment candidates they could find…McCain and Romney.

So, you know what, now the Republican groundswell wants SOMETHING CHANGED!

Trump is the anti-Romney and Sanders is the anti-Obama/Hillary.

There you have it.
MY opinion, and welcome to it.

:-)

JLeslie's avatar

I didn’t vote for Obama for change. That whole change motto wasn’t even on my radar. I voted for him, because Hillary didn’t get the nomination and McCain went all right wing suddenly and chose Palin and Romney went all right wing suddenly too. I rarely vote republican anyway, but both of those candidates seemed like a possibility to me until they started changing their tune to cater to the “base” of the party.

Obama did change things. He changed medical insurance. He killed Bin Laden. Passed additional credit card reform. Took the majority of our soldiers out of Iraq. Got rid of don’t ask don’t tell. I’m sure there are others.

jaytkay's avatar

NOTHING FUCKING CHANGED

How many unprovoked losing wars and economic depressions did Obama instigate?

marinelife's avatar

Typical Republican thinking: screw everything up, take no blame for their actions, and blame the black guy.

Cruiser's avatar

@marinelife Typical Democratic thinking….take no responsibility for the problems at hand and then lay blame on the other team for our problems…Seriously?? And you wonder why Trump is so popular?

dappled_leaves's avatar

@ibstubro “NOTHING FUCKING CHANGED”

Seriously? Even from my country, it appears that quite a lot of change has occurred during Obama’s tenure.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds
@dappled_leaves I’m stealing that from you for future use

dappled_leaves's avatar

@ARE_you_kidding_me It’s not mine, and it’s not normally used in this context at all, but I thought it was à propos. Have at it!

ibstubro's avatar

Obama promised CHANGE.

Fundamental, irrevocable, systemic change.
Rock the world kind of change.
Bernie Sanders kind of change.
Donald Trump kind of change.

I’m not saying things haven’t changed. Of course they’ve changed. They change under every administration.
Usually, the more things change, the more they stay the same.

I don’t believe anyone thinks things are going to stay the same if Trump becomes president.

Trump isn’t a Republican. He’s not a Democrat.
Trump is CHANGE personified.

dappled_leaves's avatar

@ibstubro Okey dokey. But only an insane person would vote for Drumpf because he will change the country more than Obama did. The old adage of killing the patient to cure the disease comes to mind.

marinelife's avatar

@Cruiser Republican inaction on infrastructure, Immigration, declaring war on Isis, climate change to name just a few.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

@dappled_leaves probably should have recognized Emerson.

JLeslie's avatar

@ibstubro I don’t see why your so sure Trump is change? Why? Because he has never been in politics before?

ibstubro's avatar

I’m not saying people are supporting Trump because he would change America more than Obama.

I’m saying that Obama fired the imaginations of liberals into thinking the country could be re-made into a nation more like Bernie Sanders is advocating. Whether that was his intention or not, it didn’t happen. Sanders represents the Obama promise undelivered, Clinton the Obama practice.

Now the conservatives are similarly fired up over change, and I’m pretty sure Donald Trump means to deliver if elected president.
I have little doubt that a Trump presidency would bring fundamental and irrevocable change to the US.

Don’t mistake be for a Trump supporter. I will not vote for him.

How could Obama go an administration and a half before being forced to actively address race in America?

JLeslie's avatar

@ibstubro I guess Trump does represent change from what Obama did, but I think probably Republicans think that with Cruz and Rubio too.

How did Obama address race? The few times he spoke out when someone black was mistreated and it made the news? Did he do anything to organize some sort of task for a to really address the issue? I’m asking, I have no idea if he did something or not. I kind of remember in the very beginning he talked about fathers taking responsibility for their kids. I don’t think he specifically mentioned race though regarding that.

ibstubro's avatar

No, @JLeslie, you don’t understand what I’m saying.

I think the American people have a taste for systemic change.

Conservatives were genuinely afraid of Obama because they thought he had a ticket to re-write the rule book. To shake up the race and class divisions in the United States and set the nation on a liberal course not seen since the Great Society of Lyndon B. Johnson. Instead he pretty much ignored race and his greatest accomplishment was finally passing Hillarycare. Not insignificant, but not course changing.

Trump is not Republican.
Trump has hijacked the Republican party.
The Republican establishment loves Rubio. He’s status quo.
The Republican establishment can work with Cruz. They’ll take more than they give, if just barely.

Truth told, the Republican establishment hates and fears Trump more than the Democrats. Trump threatens the current Republican establishment’s very existence. Trump offers/threatens systemic change that follows no rule book, much less the Republican Establishment Party Line.

Back to the question, I think Obama had the opportunity to set the United States on the path of Change ala Bernie Sanders, and he either wasn’t up to the task, or he squandered it.
The taste for Change hasn’t gone away…it’s just manifesting itself in Donald Trump. If he becomes President, we honestly don’t know what he will do, and that’s the appeal. The American people know what the other buggers will do, and they’re tired of it.

JLeslie's avatar

@ibstubro Maybe regarding healthcare Obama was the compromise before we get to actually having socialized medicine. Bill Clinton settled for don’t ask don’t tell in the military. Maybe we needed that step to finally get to openly gay in the military. It’s frustrating to me to compromise, but maybe it’s a necessarily evil that should still be acknowledged as progress. I don’t know.

stanleybmanly's avatar

@ibstubro. I think your assessment of Obama and the expectations of his followers is fundamentally correct. But it turns out the man is no foaming leftist at all. He’s about as moderate a man as this country has seen in the White House and all the predictions of doom & ruin from the right was little more than the usual hyperbole we’ve grown accustomed to from the Republicans. Nevertheless, the doomsayers did their damnedest to fulfill their own predictions, and if there is anything on which to fault Obama, it is that it took him far too long to appreciate that there is no reasoning to be had with those people, and that the only road to accommodation lay in whipping the mules and beating them at their own low blow game. He never did take this tack, and his reward for restraint and appealing to reason was as Jaxk says, to be regarded as weak by his obstructionist opposition.

ibstubro's avatar

I don’t think those expectations/aspirations have gone away, @stanleybmanly, and I don’t think they are/were confined to the Democratic party.

IMO Obama’s incremental change pacified the Democrats to the point that they’re not pleased/not pissed at the possibility of a Hillary presidency.

Republicans, on the other hand, have been force-fed Palin and a billionaire Mormon.
When Obama won, everybody hunkered down for a fight to change the course of the nation. Everyone, that is, but Obama.

Trump promises to fulfill the expectations of his followers, which are much the same as Obama’s first term…Change.

stanleybmanly's avatar

That is my great hope for Sanders. Because, the only real chance for change is in the recognition that it is the system itself that is corrupt. The only real difference between the democrats and the republicans is that the republicans have a constituency that allows them to hand the naton’s wealth over to the plutocrats in broad daylight. That, and of course the ability to distract attention from such matters by fomenting as obtuse a social agenda as can be arranged. As far as checking the process and arranging more equitable outcomes, the only difference in say Clinton & Rubio is in the degree to which either is willing to enhance the present setup.

flo's avatar

@ibstubro, Even if the change is toward inhumanity, change is better is your point? I’m sure it’s not.
Whoever supports me is a fool What statement of his essentially say that?
“I love the the poorly educated.”

flo's avatar

By the way even the people who want to support him are saying he flip flops from one position to another I’m pro choice I’m pro life, _ I will change after I get in ofiice_

JLeslie's avatar

Romney was pro-choice then pro-life.

Obama was supposedly against gay marriage then he was for it.

We could list a bunch. Some flip for political gain. Some change, because people change as they learn more. Some just lied.

ibstubro's avatar

Are you still holding out hope for Sanders to get the nomination, @stanleybmanly?

I agree with you that there’s little fundamental difference between Clinton and Rubio…but for the crucial fact that Congress is currently Republican.

si3tech's avatar

IMHO it is the collective federal government who “logically” begat a non politician anti politically correct in touch with the people Donald Trump.

flo's avatar

@JLeslie Excellent point. Flip flopping is a meaningless term unless it is done for political gain esp. regularly by the same person.

flo's avatar

… I mean I stand corrected.

ibstubro's avatar

I agree, @si3tech, but I think it was Obama’s 2008 campaign that solidified the collective federal government into what it is today.
I honestly believed that Obama was going to change the course of the nation. I think the majority of the nation did.

“When Obama won, everybody hunkered down for a fight to change the course of the nation. Everyone, that is, but Obama.”
It almost seemed like Obama didn’t get why the Republican congress hunkered down and became the party of “no”. I think they were afraid of him. They believed he had a mandate and a plan for fundamental change and they were prepared to hold the line against that. Instead Obama strove for incremental change, and seemed genuinely frustrated when he met a brick wall.

I think the nation is still starved for that fundamental change they were promised, and Trump is the new face of change.

flo's avatar

@ibstubro Your post about change has been responded to in my posts where I address you.^^.

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