Is Kim Davis an embarrassment to Christians and Christianity?

Well, she calls herself Christian, but she sure does not seem to be very Christian in her behavior.

I was raised in the church organization she operates in.

If you ever want to know anything about the United Pentecostal Church, International, I will happily tell you all you want to hear.

For the Reader’s Digest version, the UPCI has a very strict view of the rules for salvation, and they believe that any sin can keep you from Heaven. People in the UPC live in constant fear of being found in sin, because no one is guaranteed Heaven no matter how much they claim to be saved.

They also believe that any kind of negative feeling you might have about something might be God giving you a conviction against something. If you feel convicted, but do not change your behaviour, that thing is a sin – even if it’s not for other people.

I can bet you dollars to donuts that is why she’s stood so steadfastly in her mission. It’s not necessarily personal hate, it’s deluded fear. Fear that if she “helps” a gay person get married God will consider her in sin and send her to a literal eternal, fiery Hell full of darkness, pain, and torture.

And trust me, the fear is strong. So, so strong. It still hits me sometimes, and I’ve been out for eight years.

I would ask not to feed the trolls . I don’t know which side is trolling. She’s getting off from the attention , and has power bottlenecked through her. She seems to be a hero to her cause , and is fighting the good fight and is guaranteed to go to heaven when she dies. She is martyred by the press and court orders. I hope that gay couples can go to an alternate location to get married.

She is an indictment against it. The very fact that this type of attitute is sanctioned and perpetrated should be sparking outrage in the breast of all who call themselves Christians. It is perhaps not their fault because the bible itself was hijacked centuries ago by the “Church” and the original message so corrupted that the greater percentage of people stood no chanve whatsoever of gaining ascension through their pursuit of the work. It is merely a tool for crowd control and, in an ironic twist, it is preventing _exactly_what it claims to be promoting.
Jesus himself would have compassion for her and the countless others who live their lives in such dreadful fear due to the corruption of his message. It is not his fault that others have twisted his words and expurgated most of them to suit an agenda of supression and opression.
@Seek is absolutely correct in her assessment about the fear, and we can extrapolate beyond that to account for the behavior of her, her church, and other more radical voices such as the WBC because from a psochology standpoint we know that fear is a primary emotion and anger is secondary. The strength of the fear is in direct proportion to the strength of the anger/hatred. They are to be pitied, not cursed.
As long as they are vibrating in this frequency, they will be unable to attain ascension. They will be unable to even be happy. They will simply keep atttracting more events and people into their lives that maintain that low vibratory state.
And it is all because they have been lied to. They stood no chance whatsoever because they are not gifted with the questing mind required to seek explanations and to pursue explanations for what seems to some of us obvioius contradictions. They have been lied to and their entire lives are unfulfilled potential. We should be outraged on their behalf.

Christian here and she embarrasses me.

@Seek

I was sorta raised in a Pentecostal church (with a side-dish of Seventh-Day Adventist through my dad’s parents, yeah, growing up was fun), although an unaffiliated one, and that sounds about right.

Kim who? ~

Her narrow-minded, mean, ignorant beliefs are beyond an embarrassment. They directly contradict and repudiate the humane, loving ethic Christianity is supposed to stand for.

@ibstubro Exactly!

Christians, Christianity, and herself. What a buffooness!

Well, yeah. And again, ya’ll left me with nothing more to add!

Maybe she will be Donald Trump’s Vp. Pick.

Human here and she embarrasses me.

I didn’t see anything in that video to make me think she’s being un-Christian-ly, as far as I understand what the bible teaches about homosexuality.

Nothing I read in the article quoted her as being un-Christian-like, as far as I know what the bible teaches about homosexuality.

”...I know that Kim Davis does not represent the vast majority of Christians.”

When did Christians get lumped up so easily into one single voice in favor of gay marriage? What part of their bible promotes gay marriage, or homosexuality?

Perhaps I’m out of touch with modern Christian teachings. But from my understanding of what Christianity allows and disavows, it sounds to me like the lady is being more Christian-like than the so called Christian moniker given to those the OP suggests are real Christians.

Agree or disagree with her, matters not to me. I’m against religion in general. But this question is not about if we agree with her position on gay marriage. It simply asks if she’s an embarrassment to Christians…

Seems she’s an embarrassment to Christians and non Christians commenting on this thread. But she’s not an embarrassment to the Christians in her home town that are supporting her.

So which of the two sets of Christians are closer to the teachings of Christianity? The answer to that question will satisfy the second part of the OP question… That being if she’s an embarrassment to Christianity as a religion.

What does the bible say about it?

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies The bible also says “love and honour thy neighbor” and “judge not less he be judged”.

Kim Davis broke the law and attempted to enforce her beliefs into secular law. That is not only incredibly disrespectful, not to mention illegal.

Thanks for clarifying @NerdyKeith. I guess some people just have different definitions of love and honour. I personally never thought love meant automatically doing something that went against your principles just because someone wanted you to.

And there are plenty of instances (Rosa Parks, Gandhi, MLK) where people broke the law, disrespected it, because of their personal convictions.

If we’re going to toss the words “Christian” and “Love” around… then we can at least acknowledge Davis for following her convictions… and give her that in kindness. No different really than the homosexual community struggling for centuries to achieve the notoriety they are awarded today, throughout similar persecution and law breaking, all to gain acceptance of their identity.

Some of the spite I sense against Davis reminds me of the spite that self righteous fundamentalists cast upon homosexuals in the past… and current. None of it seems Christian-like to me. But in the linked information, I don’t sense any spite from Davis. Just a lady standing her ground to obey her convictions. I don’t sense any hate from her. Likewise, the people arguing with her seem to be fairly polite as well. They’re just having a disagreement and standing by their principles. Not nearly the level of mocking hatred I’ve seen from both sides in other arenas.

She always had the option of quitting her job, @RealEyesRealizeRealLies. If it went against her convictions that much that’s what she should have done. She should have been willing to suffer for her convictions, as Christ suffered on the cross for his.
But, she wasn’t.

The article clearly states she went to jail… complete with jailbird photos. Just as Rosa, Gandhi, MLK, and Christ did. They all had their metaphorical cross to bear… cept one… if that story is to be believed. Is jail not suffering?

Jail is not suffering. Not in the US.
Now, if she was willing to go to prison for LIFE, as Ghandi practically did, that would be a different story. But going to jail for 3 or 4 days, that’s nothing. Well, unless you were tortured and starved.

As to your celebrate comparisons, Jesus, MLK and Ghandie did more than “go to jail.” In the end, they died for their beliefs. Furthermore, they knew that they would be killed eventually, but it didn’t stop them.
Also, Ghandi ”...was imprisoned for many years, upon many occasions, in both South Africa and India.”

Rosa Parks wasn’t really in that same arena. She was a tired old lady, her feet hurt, and damnit, she wasn’t going to get up. She got dragged off to jail, and she knew she would. Her stand didn’t really compare to the hundreds and thousands who came after her, fighting in the civil war movement, literally putting their lives on the line. Many were killed for their convictions.

Another thing to consider, Jesus, MLK and Ghandi were all fighting for the same thing. They were fighting for love and tolerance, exactly the opposite of what Davis was whining and sniveling about.

No way in hell can you compare Kim Davis with any of those other true heros.

It’s all well and good to argue Kim’s motivations from the outside, but if you haven’t actually lived within the psychological insanity that is fundamental religion, whatever you’re thinking isn’t accurate.

If Kim Davis had simply given up her job and passed it on to someone else, she would have been seen by her church, her God, and by herself as a hypocrite. She’s under orders via the Bible to live her convictions regardless of “persecution”. The fact that she went to jail for standing up for herself was a win for her, not a loss. Everyone knows more about her devotion to God because of what she did. More people know about her belief system because of her. She’s a witness for Apostolic Pentecostals the world over, and she’s a goddamn hero within the denomination (not that they consider themselves a denomination).

If you look at this passage in 2 Timothy chapter 3:

1This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. (Pentecostals believe we are in the last days)
2For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, (teh gays!!) trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. (This, they believe, refers to all other Christians who are not Oneness Pentecostals)

( blah blah, et cetera, et cetera )

12Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. (So if she’s punished by law, it’s confirmation she’s doing things in a Godly way)
13But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
14But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; (Don’t change what you’re doing, even though you’re miserable and persecuted!)
15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness : (This is usually mixed with instructions to share the doctrine: “Go ye therefore unto all the world, preching the Gospel”)
17That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

***

That said, I’m not saying I agree with anything she has done, but I am saying that by a literal interpretation of the Bible, in the way it’s taught in the UPC, she did exactly what her religion teaches. To the letter.

^^^Nothing more dangerous than a former Christian who knows her shit! Well done, Seek.

For as long as I can remember we’ve been living in the end times. All the signs point to it. But all the signs pointed to it in the 17th century too. And the 18th. And the 16th. And the 10th. All the signs have been pointing to it since the words were penned, because those words do nothing more than describe human beings.

If you read the book of Acts, Jesus plainly states that He was going to return before the last of the Apostles was dead, and they were living in the End Times. But then he also says that he’d be coming “as a thief in the night” with no warning.

Contradictions are fun.

…so are you saying we missed it?? Dang it.

::shrug:: Maybe no one was good enough to be Raptured, and that’s why we missed the reports of trumpets and people floating in the sky, and we’re all actually in Hell.

I was ruptured once. But then I came down. But it was fun while it lasted.

@Seek ”...she did exactly what her religion teaches. To the letter.”

That’s all I’m saying. In that light, she’s not an embarrassment to her version of Christianity, or her fellow Christians.
___

I too was a child raised in a Pentecostal home. Speaking in tongues, casting out demons, seven day creationism… all that cultic horror. I have a different understanding now. Out for forty years.

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies Have an internet-fist-bump from me.

I was raised a “Christian.” I mean, who wasn’t in the 60’s? My folks were never devoute, though. Mom walked away from Catholicism when they got wind that she’d married a man who had been married before. The fact that she’d been married for 10 years, and had 4 children didn’t mitigate the sin. So she turned her back on that, but not on God.
I was “born again” in the 80’s. I was pretty faithful. I said prayers with my kids every night, sang songs, prayed at meals.
However, I never really accepted the more ridiculous ascertains of Christianity…the virgin birth, the resurrection, the healing of lepers and blind people suddenly seeing. I choose to just not even thing about that silly stuff and concentrate on what I thought God wanted from my life.
One time, however, I did express doubts about the resurrection to a Christian friend of mine. I though she was going to faint! She stared at me with dis-believing, wide eyes and said, “But that’s the very thing that Christianity is built on! If you don’t believe that you can’t believe in Jesus!”
I said, “I can’t?” That was news to me.
I never brought it up again. But I look back on that kind of thing and see it for the societal pressure and brainwashing trying to force everyone into thinking the same things, even if they’re ridiculous.

That’s the biggest problem with 50’s thru 80’s Christianity. The Christians didn’t really read the book for themselves. They got their truth from the man behind the pulpit.

Reading the book for yourself unveils no necessity to believe in any of the miracles. The resurrection, the virgin birth… all irrelevant. Jesus just gave on simple commandment to replace all others. One simple commandment.

I agree. But the book has some serious contradictions and bad behavior in it, behavior that was condoned by God. To me, that kind of makes everything else suspect.

MLK and Ghandi were as profound as Jesus.

My father is an atheist. Pretty much always has been, but when I was growing up he never really said this to anyone. Mom just kinda glomped on to whatever little tidbits of any and every belief that filtered down to her and she though sounded neat. Plenty of fluffy talk about “being spiritual” but not enough conviction to actually put anything, anything at all, into practice. They’d let my grandparents take my sister and I to church because, I guess, it appeased my grandparents and kept peach in the family on that front.

Some weekends were spent with my mom’s mother and aunt at the Pentecostal church. I always hated going there. All the speaking in tongues, the preacher screaming and rating until he was red-faced, out of breath, and the general judgmental hate and unpleasantness freaked me the fuck out, seemed at odds with the “Jesus loves everyone” shit they peddled to us in Sunday school, and turned me off from the whole thing. But I always wanted to go because my grandma and aunt would take us to Showbiz Pizza afterward.

Dad’s parents went to the Seventh-Day Adventist church which didn’t unnerve me, but I found extra boring. However I always preferred dad’s parents, on the whole, as people, over mom’s side and always loved spending time with them. Grandma was really the Adventist true believer of the two. Grandpa had been raised Presbyterian and that very much shaped his mindset and demeanor for his whole life (he and Mr. Rogers would have gotten along well). On the other hand, he didn’t much give a care for one denomination or another. We went to the Adventist church because that’s where grandma wanted to go. After she passed he’d just kinda go to any church in our small town whenever. He’d go to a service a couple of times a month and would just kinda cycle through the different churches in town (I think that, for him, this was as much about maintaining community ties as anything else). Also, amusingly, I noticed that after grandma passed away the Postum in the cupboard got replaced with instant coffee.

I love Postum.