Social Question

Buttonstc's avatar

What do you think would happen if groups of Transgender men and butch lesbians all got together and descended upon NC to occupy women's restrooms to protest the new "bathroom law"?

Asked by Buttonstc (27597points) April 29th, 2016

Since their valid birth gender is female, the law stipulates that they would have the right of access. But, especially in the case of fully transitioned Transmen sporting beards and short hair, wouldn’t this provide a wake up call to some of the more dimwitted citizenry as to how ridiculous this new law is?

They could all just tuck their birth certificates, along with current ID, in their back pockets, refuse to show it until after the arrest (to avoid permanent charges) and hold press conferences all over the place highlighting this folly.

If they kept this up similar to how civil rights demonstrators at lunch counters, etc used to do, what impact would it likely have?

As long as they did it peacefully and not threatening anyone, how could authorities stop them? Wouldn’t it just be such a huge pain in the neck over time for police to be constantly fielding anonymous calls reporting a “man” in the women’s bathroom?

And if the Police got fed up and stopped responding after a time, citing a likely hoax, doesn’t that, in effect, nullify that law.

And if they keep it up, how long before the repeal of this ridiculous legislation? I mean, what else could they do?

Ah well, we can dream, can’t we?

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30 Answers

Buttonstc's avatar

With a belated nod to @Espiritus_Corvus for the inspiration. He mentioned demonstrating as a solution in a recent post :)

ibstubro's avatar

This question is wrong.

Transgender is not a “man” thing, and lesbian is not a transgender thing.

Buttonstc's avatar

A transgender man is a person who was born female and is now male.

It’s the opposite of transgender woman. Caitlyn Jenner is a transgender woman.

Masen Davis (born female) is a transgender man.
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http://transgenderlawcenter.org/about/staff-and-board/masen-davis

Buttonstc's avatar

The reason I put them together is based solely upon looks alone along with having a female birth certificate.

It shows the utter folly of their stupid law designed to keep women’s bathrooms “pure”

I don’t know about you, but I personally know a LOT of butch lesbians who could pass for guys. Why not give their new law a little trial run?

Did you see the recent Q by Dutchess which contains a video clip of a lesbian woman being evicted by cops from a ladies room because she didn’t look feminine enough.

What would happen if this occured several times in succession in NC? I think the potential is hilarious.

Mariah's avatar

That would be amazing. I would love to see how butch I can make myself look with hair gel and clothing choices and participate.

@ibstubro I think you misunderstood. The question is about people who were born female and are therefore being forced into female bathrooms despite looking somewhat male. Trans men and butch lesbians can both fall under that distinction. I don’t find it offensive at all.

ibstubro's avatar

Sorry, I didn’t realize the law in NC was for women’s rooms only.

Participate, @Mariah? Are you transgender man or butch lesbian?

Buttonstc's avatar

@ibstubro

Just to clarify about that law. It says that EVERYONE must use the bathroom matching their birth certificate. But they’re saying that this is to “protect” women and girls from having men (like Caitlyn Jenner) in female restrooms.

The obvious reason why protesting in men’s rooms wouldn’t be feasible is because it could be downright life threatening.

And thats the nasty underside of this hateful law. Transgender women like Caitlyn being forced to use the men’s room coukd get them assaulted or killed.

THAT’S why this law is so homophobic. Neanderthals love to make targets out of feminine acting gay boys and transgender women.

Check the statistics for murders of transgender women and prepare to be horrified.

Mariah's avatar

Here we go…

I didn’t realize support of transgender people was only limited to people in the LGBTQ community. I doubt they’d reject my support just because I’m straight and cis.

The NC law is not for women’s rooms only.

Buttonstc's avatar

@Mariah

I’m quite sure that LGBT folks woutkd welcome their straight allies participating just as there were plenty of white folks going down South to participate in the cause during dismantling segregation and Jim Crow laws.

Some of them were even murdered because of it.

ibstubro's avatar

It was the OP that specified, “groups of Transgender men and butch lesbians” descending on NC, @Mariah.

Everyone descending on NC for a massive drag party sounds like fun. Now that could be a protest that shook the house!

Mariah's avatar

I know. Again, I don’t think they’d kick me out for being straight and cis.

Love_my_doggie's avatar

”...butch lesbians”? Really?

Buttonstc's avatar

Yes, really. I have several friends who describe themselves that way with pride.

And some of them also identify as queer ; That’s their choice of wording, not mine.

Response moderated
Mariah's avatar

I’ve also never heard “butch” as being considered an offensive term but my ears are wide open if any lesbians want to chime in otherwise.

Cruiser's avatar

Dream all you want but that will not change the fabric of the minds of many who still perceive and believe you should pee with the equipment you were born with. I for one would not want to have to stand outside the women’s restroom while my 7 year old daughter had to venture in alone do her business in the same bathroom next to a 57 year old confused male…

Love_my_doggie's avatar

@Mariah Full disclosure – not a lesbian, but a friend to numerous gay men and women, as well as the long-term Treasurer of my state’s first openly-gay legislator’s campaign committee.

Certain terms, which are otherwise slurs, can be used affectionately within a given community. (Personally, I’ve never been comfortable with this, but many people are.) This doesn’t give license to people outside that group to do so. My gay male friends might choose to call each other “fags,” “queers,” or “girls,” but I can’t and won’t do that. I know lesbians who refer to “dykes,” “studs,” and “butch,” but it would be offensive if I did the same.

Mariah's avatar

Huh okay. I certainly would never use any of the other slurs you listed but I never thought butch was considered a slur. TIL I guess.

Love_my_doggie's avatar

^^^ Sometimes, I think life’s a continuous mine field.

You know the rule of hair, jewelry, and makeup? Less is more; when in doubt, leave it out.

I try to apply this same rule to my own big mouth, but I often fail. So many times, an attempt to be provocative or clever is the verbal equivalent of too much eye liner. If I get through an entire day without upsetting anyone, I guess it’s been a good day.

Mariah's avatar

Hmm. Personally, I’m not a big fan of the idea that accommodating minorities means that we all have to walk on eggshells. That makes people resentful and seems counterproductive. Instead, I’m trying to learn as much as I can so that I can better empathize. As I incorporate this empathy into my interactions, it should become natural for me to choose my words wisely. And I’m trying to take feedback along the way from people within the community if I do fuck up, so that I can improve myself as an ally.

I think context is very important. For example, since @Buttonstc‘s question is clearly supportive of trans people in that it’s about protesting a law that harms them, I interpret @Buttonstc as being someone who is generally supportive of trans rights. If he used a term or two that’s considered offensive, I think we can safely assume that he just didn’t realize it was offensive. That’s why I find it unproductive to jump on people just based on terminology. It just alienates people from causes if they end up getting criticized every time they try to be involved, even as a supporter.

Of course, I’m coming from a place of privilege: if I were trans, I might react with anger or fear immediately upon hearing a slur rather than having the luxury to step back and evaluate the speaker’s intention.

Buttonstc's avatar

Here’s some interesting insight from Leslie Feinberg (author of Stone Butch Blues and Transgender Warriors, among others) who has referred to herself by many different appellations. And even tho it’s talking about pronouns, it’s obvious that it can refer to any word.
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Feinberg’s widow, Minnie Bruce Pratt, wrote in her statement regarding Feinberg’s death that Feinberg did not really care which pronouns a person used to address her: “She preferred to use the pronouns she/zie and her/hir for herself, but also said: ‘I care which pronoun is used, but people have been respectful to me with the wrong pronoun and disrespectful with the right one. It matters whether someone is using the pronoun as a bigot, or if they are trying to demonstrate respect.’”
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I think the concept of respectful with the wrong word vs. disrespectful with the correct one is an interesting way of looking at it.

johnpowell's avatar

@Cruiser :: Have you not taught the kids how to scream?

Please cite a single bathroom transgendered person doing a bad thing in a bathroom.

Harper-Mercer, Christopher Sean – 9
Rodger, Elliot Oliver Robertson – 6
Lanza, Adam Peter – 27
Cho, Seung-Hui – 32
Whitman, Charles Joseph – 16

I could go on. But a crime that has never been commited is a big fucking deal.

Buttonstc's avatar

@Cruiser

Whomever your daughter might have encountered would already likely be in their own stall with the door closed, however, I’ll play the hypothetical, if you’ll answer this question for me just to clarify what you’re referring to, OK ?

Whom would your daughter be most likely be disconcerted by encountering?? Person A or Person B?

A. )
https://youtu.be/bJw3s85EcxM
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B.) Scroll to mid-page for photo
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http://transgenderlawcenter.org/about/staff-and-board/masen-davis
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BTW: Neither of them are the slightest bit confused FYI.

Person B would simply be following exactly the North Carolina law and presumably be using “the equipment they were born with”

Unofficial_Member's avatar

I don’t know about the regulation but in my country people need to ask permission from government first before they can have legal protest. I say do it. Men need to join too, as this can also happen to them (while I honestly don’t believe any men will detest the idea of a woman-like person in their bathroom).

Buttonstc's avatar

@Unofficial_Member

Since you are presuming that men wouldn’t have any problem with “woman-like person” then kindly tell me who is assaulting and killing so many transgender women ?

And just to be perfectly clear here, when I say transgender women I’m referring to people like Caitlyn Jenner who were born male and changed to being women.

They are being bashed and killed for no reason other than the fact that they are a “woman-like person” as you put it.

So who’s doing the violence if not men? Do you think women or children are doing the violence toward them?

There aren’t a whole lot of choices here.

Unofficial_Member's avatar

Ahem! What I meant was for the usage of public bathroom. Many women have used men’s bathroom without much incidence, a person who looks like a woman will likely be identified as woman by most men. I believe men are more tolerant toward women in their bathroom than women toward men in their bathroom.

I believe assault can happen anywhere to anyone regardless of gender so I won’t specify this as bathroom issue.

ucme's avatar

A collective yawn wouldspread across the nation/world

KNOWITALL's avatar

I think it would be a bloodbath & many LGBT’s & straights would go to jail, or worse. These people are convinced LGBT’s or Unisex bathrooms allow predators in the same room with their babies. If you don’t think they’d kill you don’t understand the mentality of the Southern Republican male mentality. Now add many christians including women. It may not be right, but as a straight Christian who has gay & crossdressing friends, it would not end well.

disquisitive's avatar

They would just let people strengthen their negative view of them as a group. This country has lost perspective about how to act and how to act with class. Americans have shown themselves to be truly a disappointment over the past ten years or so.

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