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Pandora's avatar

History buffs: Are there any correlations between Churchill in 1912 to our current politics?

Asked by Pandora (29242points) May 12th, 2016

This may be odd, but I fell asleep on the sofa, and I fell asleep as the words Churchill, 1912 popped into my head. I remember wondering why was I thinking of Churchill. Then when I woke, I thought again about Churchill 1912.

It kept repeating in my head. I’m still a little sleepy so I can’t make heads or tales anything historic that I am reading. Plus I am no history buff on Churchill and his politics. I figure it may be something in my subconscious that I may have read eons ago.

I did not fall asleep watching the TV, nor do I watch the history channel. I may have watched one or two things on there about WWll , but I know very little about WWI. Anything I might know about it would date back over 20 years and it would be more about American history.

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6 Answers

stanleybmanly's avatar

Been listening to Trump speeches lately? By 1912, Churchill was First Lord of the Admiralty, and I would equate his career to have more in common with that of Teddy Roosevelt. I checked, and in April 1912, Churchill went to Belfast to speak in favor of Irish independence. He apparently had to blow town in a hurry to avoid the wrath of the Protestants.

Pandora's avatar

@stanleybmanly Not that I know off. I usually mute Trump or quickly change the channel on my TV set. The sound of his voice and the look of his big orange head irritates me. I just wonder why Churchill and that date. In all of my life, this is probably the most I’ve ever mentioned him. And the only thing I pretty much know him for, is for his fight them on the beach speech for WWII and that’s only because of the WWII movies my husband watches.
Did Trump mention Churchill in 1912?
I suppose it could possibly have more to do with states seeming to want more independence lately and Trump is trying to dodge policies decisions by saying states should decide for themselves.
I know it was probably just an odd thought. But it’s one of those rare times when a thought just gets stuck in my head as if it is suppose to be important. Not just a random date. That’s the other weird thing. I never recall numbers. I remember dreaming of a number but when I wake, I can never remember the order of the number. Virtually impossible to play the lottery on my dreams. LOL
Just very perplexing.

SecondHandStoke's avatar

The core dynamics of politics never change.

Good policies applied many decades ago are still good policy today.

For the many of you that criticize conservatives not truly knowing what they stand for by definition you now have your best characterization above.

Espiritus_Corvus's avatar

Big Orange Head = Irish Protestants!

Seriously, the only correlation I can think of is the late Victorian/Edwardian-era British national guilt over the injustices of empire. While Churchill, ever the imperialist, never batted an eye concerning the “righteousness” of British Empire, liberals, on the other hand, mostly young intellectuals in Parliament, the arts and academia, and mostly of the upper classes, began questioning the ethics and brutality of empire about the time of the first Boer War.

There began a serious liberal backlash after Arthur Conan Doyle’s exposé of Belgian King Leopold’s troops’ treatment of natives in the Congo in his journalism and in his popular book, The Heart of Darkness. It wasn’t long before Brits began to realize they had behaved just as cruelly within their own colonies. The Brits began experiencing cognitive dissonance on a national level. Even the Suffragette movement took time to get into the act by integrating complaints against the injustices into their speeches.

The liberals were countered with jingoist British writers like Kipling and essayist Hilaire Belloc. Belloc became famous for the short poem he wrote in answer to the “Liberal defeatist clamor” during the second, strictly punitive, 1898 invasion of Sudan (in which Churchill took part as a lieutenant in the mounted Hussars) in retribution for the total annihilation of General Gordon’s army by the Mahdi’s tribesmen at Khartoum 13 years earlier:

“Whatever happens, we have got
The Maxim gun, and they have not”

It was coming to a head just before WWI. But Churchill’s personal notes and diaries and those of his private secretaries show that he never questioned the rightness of the British Empire.

Likewise, we seriously began questioning our imperial motives and strategies after My Lai, a national sentiment that anchored itself into our consciousness after the Church Committee revelations and we’ve been wrestling with it ever since. It has increasingly affected our national self esteem and confidence as a people. As our political influence and economic power slowly, incrementally wains over the decades, I would say we are at about where the British were in 1912, just before WWI.

This is the only correlation I can think of, but I seriously doubt that all of this was going through your head when you awoke. The Big Orange Head = Orangemen is actually more likely, as unlikely as that is.

Pandora's avatar

@Espiritus_Corvus I agree. I doubt that was going though my head as well. I can see that perhaps our current political strife can be seen seen as a repeat of English history.
Then again it reminds me that the world (and yes I know I am mixing quotes) is a stage. Different actors, different, lines, and different towns. But each time the story begins where it let off because it’s always the same tale.
Oppressors, oppressed, conflict, winners, losers, rinse, and repeat. Oppressors…....

JLeslie's avatar

A movie about Churchill was just on the TV in our house a few days ago. It was in Spanish, and I wasn’t the one watching it, but if it was on HBO it might have been in English too. Maybe you heard the movie in the background? Like me. However, I think the movie was about the WWII era. I wasn’t watching it intently though, maybe it covered more.

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