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Rarebear's avatar

Does it make any sense that many Sanders supporters are saying they will vote for Gary Johnson?

Asked by Rarebear (25159points) July 12th, 2016

I’m listening to the latest Five Thirty Eight podcast where one of the people on the panel is mentioning statistics where Sanders supporters are planning on voting for Johnson, not Stein. I don’t remember the numbers, but I’m taking the guy at face value

This makes no sense to me. Johnson is a libertarian, and opposed, economically at least, to everything that Sanders supports.

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33 Answers

Mariah's avatar

Makes no sense to me either. Seems like a lot of them might just be pointing at him and saying “Hey, here’s a guy that isn’t Trump or Clinton, let’s vote for him.”

kritiper's avatar

Makes as much sense as cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Zaku's avatar

There are many reasons to like Sanders for president. I guess some “libertarians” had overlap. There’s nearly zero reason to support Clinton or Trump other than dislike of the other, so I think there will be many votes this time for “other”, whatever scraps the atrocious single-vote systems presents.

Pachy's avatar

So… like… what does make sense about this presidential race?? Two highly flawed baby-boom candidates, one a napoleonic carnival barker, the other the battered wife of a last-century president, and both dragging around the kind of ugly baggage only Gore Vidal could imagine.

And remember, whom voters say now they’re voting for and whom they actualy vote for are quite often not the same.

Seek's avatar

It sounds a lot like cutting one’s nose to spite one’s face, unless the only thing they care about is legalization of marijuana. I’m pretty sure that’s the only thing they agree on.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I’m starting to worry about the critical thinking skills of many of the Democrats, especially the younger ones, like my grandson. He’s 21, and convinced that all of the innuendo and lies about Hillary, as spread by conservatives, are true.

I think the younger voters turned out in record numbers for Bernie, and now that he’s no longer an option they don’t know what else to fall back on. When Bernie was viable, the kids were our allies. But now they’ve become our worst, confused, clueless enemy and might be the reason Trump ends up in office….I can’t even think about that.

Rarebear's avatar

@Pachy Clearly. Many people say they’ll do something and do something else, and that was the assumption of the panel. I was just questioning the logic of the thinking.

I totally understand Sanders supporters going over to the Green party, as it’s philosophically similar.

Zaku's avatar

@Dutchess_III I lay the responsibility for our next president on the doorstep of the DNC and Clinton supporters, and their allies the mainstream media and megacorporate donors. Sanders consistently polled as defeating Trump. In forcing Clinton to be the Democratic nominee in various lame ways, they also alienated most of the Sanders supporters, to prop up a weaker and all-around inferior candidate.

As for their “critical thinking skills”, I’d say people who suspect Clinton of various awful things are less gullible than ones who think she’s innocent and won the primary fairly. One mistake that organized deception makes (whether it is the corporate news media, corporate politicians, or corporate paid Internet trolls), is that when you lie enough you get caught, and then no one believes you. It’s the boy who cried Wolf Blitzer. When the best news coverage comes from comedians, and they and our best academics are also telling us that the USA has become an oligarchy and that the primary election was rigged, why not also believe that the Clintons have been responsible for the people who have died all around them, who were about to testify against them, etc etc. There are plenty of true enough stories that show we shouldn’t elect her president. I’m more worried about the critical thinking skills of whatever so-called-Democrats favored her over Sanders, in the face of her connections to Monsanto, Wal Mart, fracking, private prisons, etc etc.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Well, it is what it is. The only goal now is to keep Trump out of the office. I really think Hillary will be a competent president.

Darth_Algar's avatar

“Whadda ya mean I gotta be registered in order to vote? THE ELECTION IS RIGGED! KILLARY’S STEALIN’ DEMOCRACY!!!!”

angiemax's avatar

It makes sense only in the context of people not being properly informed about what the candidates actually stand for and allowing their emotions to overrule their critical thinking.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I have people on Facebook, disappointed Sander’s supporters, yelling that Hillary is a criminal! She’s a CRIMINAL!
I ask, “According to who?”
The answer is “Everybody just knows that! If you don’t know that you’re just brainwashed!”
Things that make you go “Hmmmm.”

johnpowell's avatar

Remember “PUMAs”? It will all work out.

Dutchess_III's avatar

No…what is PUMA?

JLeslie's avatar

He’s a libertarian, fairly liberal on social issues like women’s rights and gay marriage. Some dems hate Hillary, and Johnson has received some air time for people to get to know him.

Rarebear's avatar

@JLeslie I’m well aware of Johnson’s positions as they closely mirror my own. However everything he stands for economically is diametrically opposed to Social Democratic ideals of a state run health care, free education provided for by the state, etc.

Zaku's avatar

It’s been interesting seeing how divided people’s information sources are.

Just one of comedian/journalist Lee Camp’s reports on election fraud. Just as in the absence of a sane Republican, the establishment can sell the people what used to be called a Republican as the Democratic candidate, in the absence of real mainstream journalism, the comedians have become some of the few voices calling out the deceptions.

JLeslie's avatar

@Rarebear Well, some people hyperfocus on certain issues. It wouldn’t be the first time abortion is a critical issue for part of the population. Or, pick something else. A bunch of female, very left, democrats seem to really hate Hillary. They aren’t going to vote for Trump, so they might be clamping on to another candidate who won’t screw around with the laws of the land protecting abortion and civil rights, and they ignore the rest.

Look at what happened in the UK, now some people regret their vote to leave the EU, because they didn’t really understand what they were voting for. You don’t think the US has a lot of people who don’t really know what, who, they are voting for?

Edit: I think that same dynamic is why a lot of people first followed Trump. They ignore the total of what he says, and only focused on part of it. Some of those people have backed away from him now.

gondwanalon's avatar

Perhaps some people dislike Hilary so much that they are willing to through their vote away rather than vote for her.

I voted for Bernie in the primary and I there is no way that I’d vote for Hillary. The world will not come to an end if I don’t vote.

DrasticDreamer's avatar

@Dutchess_III The reason I was going to vote for Bernie is because of everything he wanted to do and was trying so hard to accomplish. Hillary is nothing except more of the same BS that made America so horrible in the first place. She is literally bought and I don’t trust her, the same way that I haven’t trusted most other politicians in my lifetime. I don’t think she cares, at all, about anything. I think she’s all about money, and face. Her speeches are so rehearsed that it disgusts me and she just spouts things she knows most people love to hear. I’m almost positive that we will go to war under her presidency, since it generates so much revenue. She thinks America is great and, to me, that’s a huge problem because it indicates that she doesn’t really believe anything needs to be worked on, and that could not be further from the truth.

Everyone will blame Bernie supporters if Trump wins. They’ll say “He won because you didn’t vote for Clinton!”. I’ll turn around to all of the people who always supported Clinton and I’ll say “No, Trump won because you didn’t vote for Bernie”. It works both ways. A lot of Bernie supporters see writing his name in as a form of protest since everything is completely rigged anyway. If you take the choice away from people, like our current system has done for years now, people will protest for change in whatever way they see fit.

gorillapaws's avatar

I don’t think it makes much sense either.

Voting for Jill Stein is really the only choice that makes much sense for Bernie Supporters who liked him for his policies and who refuse to vote for Clinton. Writing Bernie in is literally pointless because you ballot just gets tossed in the trash. If Stein can muster enough support, the media will have to let her into the debates and that could be a true game-changer.

Stein is smart, articulate and a physician.

JLeslie's avatar

Does Jill Stein get any time on TV? I haven’t seen her being interviewed at all. I don’t watch a ton of politics right now, but I am watching about 5–10 hours a week at least as background noise in the house. If only Green Party people know her, that’s not enough. You need the average person who isn’t very obsessed with politics, but enough interest that they value being able to vote.

JLeslie's avatar

I think each nominee from each major political party should be able to debate against each other. That includes the Independents, Green Party, and libertarian party.

gorillapaws's avatar

@JLeslie Here’s a clip of Stein fending off a swarm of Fox News piranhas interviewing her. I think she looks pretty strong.

elbanditoroso's avatar

Makes no sense. But ideologues aren’t always rational.

JLeslie's avatar

@gorillapaws That explains it. I almost never watch Fox. I appreciate the link.

I don’t think I agree with her about the whole student loan and debt thing. Although, I can see her logic in the comparison to the TARP, and I found it interesting Fox News was quick to say the TARP was paid back when most republicans don’t even realize Bush did the TARP and most republicans don’t like that particular bail out.

Why doesn’t Stein focus on why tuition is so high, rather than clearing the debts? Underlying cause. She’s a doctor, well, give me the antibiotic to kill the strep, don’t just numb my throat to stop the pain. How will forgiving past debt help kids applying to college today? Tomorrow? Next year?

I did like what she said about healthcare costs.

I really think news outlets should have to give a certain amount of minimum time to each candidate to be interviewed live. They can max out on whoever they want, but I want a minimum.

Darth_Algar's avatar

Yeah, not sure I’d exactly call the Greens a “major” political party. They can’t even get their shit together, stop bickering among themselves, or stop alienating potential supporters who happen to not agree fully, 100% with every single party issue enough to even get their candidate on the ballot in most states.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Zaku

“Election fraud! election fraud!” – cries someone in every election that doesn’t turn out how they want.

Rarebear's avatar

Before I start flagging answers please read the OP.

Darth_Algar's avatar

I read the OP. Flag away if you so desire.

JLeslie's avatar

My only point with the TV time is I think part of the reason people don’t go from Bernie to her is they don’t know she exists. Sorry, I did go on a tangent a bit. Please flag if you want.

Rarebear's avatar

My question was NOT about Jill Stein. It’s obvious to me why Bernie supporters would support Stein.

My question was about Gary Johnson. I do not understand how Bernie supporters could possibly support Johnson given that everything that Bernie wanted economically, Johnson is opposed to.

Darth_Algar's avatar

Alrighty.

“Does it make any sense that many Sanders supporters are saying they will vote for Gary Johnson?”

No.

There. Question answered, the thread can be closed now.

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