Never-Trumpers, can you list the reasons why you're one?

Cuz he sucks

I think Never-Trumpers refers specifically to Republicans.

So the question is not for people like me (never-GOPers). Our views are obvious and less interesting for this question.

I know a never-Trumper who has voted Republican for decades. He is supporting Clinton because she is closest to the Eisenhower-Republicans he identifies with.

To him, Trump is a wild man. Too unpredictable. He might start a war on a whim.

I am not an American but my view he is a American Hitler,and thinks every country on the Planet should bow to the US and that isn’t going to happen.
He wants to build walls and not bridges.
The way he talked about the Kahns shows he has no respect for anything.
He has the low educated die hard red neck vote and I pray to God that isn’t enough to get him in.

It’s horrifying to contemplate, but never covers an awful lot of ground. I can actually visualize worse candidates than Trump. Worse than that, I’m cynical enough to believe that we will probably be facing them in our near future. Trump lights the way for sociopaths and misanthropes of every stripe to “dream the impossible dream”.

We actually dodged a bullet with Ted Cruz.

1. His temperment
2. He’s an idiot
3. He’s insane
4 He seems to want our enemies to be friends and treats our friends like enemies. (Did I say he is crazy)
5. Nothing he wont do to win. (well except actually invest a bulk of his own money like he said he would in his campaign.
6. He’s a douche bag.
7. He’s a con artist.
8. He’s a biggot
9. He’s a KKK fan
10 . He knows squat about our own laws. (Honestly, to be expected from a moron)
11. He is a threat to our countries security.
12. He thinks himself as a savior (Again nuts)
13. He believes laws of this land shouldn’t apply to him.
14 And although not necessary, these guys word should carry a great deal. It their jobs to keep our country safe and they felt they had to speak up. They went against party because they fear what he will do to our nations security.

I’ll GA @Call_Me_Jay and call it a day.

His treatment of women.
His treatment of people of color.
...oh, screw it, there are too many reasons to list.

There was a post on Reddit the other day where a person was asking about if there is some sort of clinical definition of what it would be called if you wanted a bad thing to happen to see the outcome….

I think Trump is in that camp. He has a total fascination with nuclear weapons. It goes back to the 90’s in this Playboy interview.

“I’ve always thought about the issue of nuclear war. It’s a very important element in my thought process. It’s the ultimate, the ultimate catastrophe, the biggest problem this world has, and nobody’s focusing on the nuts and bolts of it. It’s a little like sickness. People don’t believe they’re going to get sick until they do. Nobody wants to talk about it. I believe the greatest of all stupidities is people’s believing it will never happen, because everybody knows how destructive it will be, so nobody uses weapons. What bullshit.”

The dude seems fascinated with nukes and knows he will still be able to bang his daughter if he blows up the world since they will be living in a mountain. The mountain thing would actually make the daughter banging thing easier.

The list is long. Here are the worst of his qualities in my opinion:

He lies in volumes, casually and daily, more than any politician I have seen in my 63 years. So many lies that it is difficult to keep up with them.

As a president, this man will be carrying a card in his pocket that will have the nuclear codes. During his debriefing last week, he asked three times why the U.S. doesn’t make use of it’s nuclear arsenal.

He doesn’t debate, he indulges in ad hominem argument worse than anything I’ve ever seen from the worst trolls in the history of Fluther. This won’t fly with the world diplomatic corps. He will get us isolated, or worse, boxed into dangerous corners we may have to fight our way out of using 19 year-olds. He is bait for ISIS and Putin. These fucks don’t bluff. A bullshit artist like Trump is breakfast for these people.

He didn’t know that Russia invaded the Ukraine. The most non-political Flutherite here knows that Russia invaded the Ukraine. There were a plethora of questions here when Russia invaded the Ukraine. No flutherite could have missed it. But the man who wants to be president, a man of great wealth, mobility and exposure to information a guy like me can only dream of, didn’t know this. What the fuck does this guy do all day? He obviously doesn’t understand what happened to prices of certain commodities such as natural gas when Russia invaded the Ukraine. He’s supposed to be in commodities as well as real estate. I’m not in commodities, but I knew what happened. I understood the relationship. And I’m just a guy on a Pecan rancho with a donkey on a dinky island in the friggin Caribbean.

He has demonstrated time and time again that he has no understanding of the rule of law nor the US Constitution.

He has bullied the most vulnerable Americans, insulted every minority, repeatedly made misogynistic remarks about his wife, female journalists, women in general and mothers specifically. He has insulted families who have lost their children in war, not just the Khans.

He has shown that he has absolutely no grasp on the importance, the gravitas of the Purple Heart and, in the process, has insulted all those who have been awarded it. He insulted American POWs. In short, he is a reflection of the worst America has to offer: He is a bully. I don’t want him representing this country, I don’t want him as Commander in Chief of our Armed Forces and I don’t this son of a bitch anywhere near the presidency.

He has said four times in the past, on TV, that he has met Putin and has a relationship with Putin. Now he can’t remember saying that.

He is a megalomaniac. He is dangerously narcissistic. He is a sociopath and a sociopathic liar. He lashes out wildly and irrationally with undue and unnecessary force whenever challenged.

His business acumen consists of a specialty in bankruptcy. He is famous for cheating contractors.

He is a fucking cheat and liar—and he very well may be nuts.

Is that not enough?

But-But @Espiritus_Corvus he is the man hat is going to make America fucking great again!^^
All I can say is thank God I am a Canadian.

Get your thanking in now; nuclear winter doesn’t respect borders.

He is a Nazi.

And he chose a running mate that never answers questions but side steps them. So even his VP will be just like him.

I’ve been reading and watching a lot about Francisco Franco. Enlightening. https://vimeo.com/77755348

@chyna He chose a running mate that not only vehemently denies climate change, but advocates electroshock therapy to convert homosexuals into heterosexuals. Pence is just as crazy as Trump.

I meant to include this in number 14. http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/08/politics/republican-national-security-letter-donald-trump-election-2016/index.html

Fabulous answerws!
@

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-terrorists_us_56e0d7cde4b065e2e3d4d82

“And the other thing is with the terrorists, you have to take out their families. They, they care about their lives. Don’t kid yourself. But they say they don’t care about their lives. You have to take out their families.” ?

He denies that he said that? What did he say he said instead? I wonder if it’s like I never meant blood out of her… you must be (demented?) to think I meant that.

Asked about the sacrifice the Khan family’s loss I sacrificed too by employing so many people.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/daniel-berger/trump-profile-of-a-sociopath_b_11318128.html

So, Trump may have just casually suggested someone might assassinate Clinton before the election. Because he’s classy like that.

Proving it yet again.

I don’t know what it would take to get charged with incitement…He already incited/ threatened rioting a few months ago. He told people to punch out protesters at his rallies.

@flo They were so proud of him staying on message yesterday and then he puts a hit out on Clinton today. It’s amazing. You know anyone else would’ve been put in jail. But right away his Trumpteers are saying he was joking and his team says he was talking about 2nd amendment people getting out to vote to assure her loss. But he didn’t add that till much later in a tweet after his team talked to him.
By the way. His message yesterday was to tell big businesses that they would get a reduction in taxes. Like they don’t already. He’s back to trickle down economics which should be renamed tinkle down economics. Where the rich corporations get to piss on their current and former workers.
But you know. He got a team of a bunch of wealthy business men to write up his financial plan and they said; “What will a fox do in a chicken coop?”

Tinkle down economics, I love that term and more to the point.^^^^^

Trump’s economic plan is just the “Horse and Sparrow” crap that they have repeatedly tried to sell to the American public since the 1890’s. It was called Trickle Down Economics in the Reagan Era and “Voodoo Economics” by George H. W. Bush when he ran against Reagan in the primaries before he became Reagan’s VP.

Every time this has been implemented, it has caused major recessions. It’s merely a plan to rapidly transfer wealth from the middle and lower classes to the rich which kills the marketplace by reducing the ability for people to buy things. If people don’t buy things, production shuts down and unemployment rises which causes more poverty and more depression in the marketplace and so and so on until you have a depression.

In the meantime, due to tax cuts, infrastructure falls apart and eventually becomes too expensive to save and you end up living in shit—in a country where nothing works, like the East Bloc during the Soviet era. The money the wealthy retain through tax cuts which they are supposed to re-invest into American industry, is instead taken out of the country and invested where labor is cheaper and business and labor regulatory laws are either non-existent or more liberal. But the wealthy won’t notice how crappy and unsafe their country has become. They’ll be too busy in their mansions in Biarritz.

WOW! @Espiritus_Corvus I wish I could give you a million great answer votes^^ for that answer I just wish the average working joe republican could see that, I wonder why they can’t it is right in front of them and yet seem very blind to it.

@SQUEEKY2 I agree re. @Espiritus_Corvus answers. And @Pandora‘s too!

…I wish I hadn’t posted the last post because there are @stanleybmanly‘s @johnpowell‘s @Call_Me_Jay‘s too.
So, not all answers are fabulous, since for example @ jonsblond’s answer sounds like a Trumpster’s answer.

It’s not a Trumpster answer. It’s honest.

Can you imagine the Supreme Court justices Ted Cruz would appoint? Zionist crazypants people. Goodbye Roe v. Wade, goodbye 14th Amendment (for all intents and purposes). He’d send this country so far into Christianist insanity even sane religious people would be scared.

Sorry for not being fabulous.

Fyi- I’m not a Trumpster. I voted for Bernie and I’ve been a lifelong Democrat who is leaving the party to become Independent. I’m voting for Jill Stein.

If anyone wondered about @Espiritus_Corvus “Horse and Sparrow” link:
The “horse and the sparrow” theory is another, older and more literal name for “trickle down economics” and it goes like this: ‘If you feed the horse enough oats there is more chance that some will pass through to the road for the sparrows.” This of course assumes two things: 1) that the sparrow does not get dumped on by the horse whilst attempting to get to the oats as they ‘trickle’ out and 2) that oats picked out of horse shit taste the same as oats naturale, oats that have not been blown out of a horse’s ass.”

Obviously, @Espiritus_Corvus, it made me look. Thanks.

@jonsblond is AbFab!

@jonsblond and @Seek Anyone who votes for anyone other than Clinton is voting for Trump. Voting for anyone else is like working on getting rid of the mold instead of preventing and stopping the fire from getting any further.
@Seek That’s misleading. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsuccessful_nominations_to_the_Supreme_Court_of_the_United_States

No, anyone that is voting third party is voting third party. Voting is additive. Unless a person is voting for Trump, they are not voting for Trump.

I am actively seeking to cancel out a Trump vote, so I am voting for the person most likely to get as many or more votes as him.

One more trip on the lesser evil train.

Clinton does not own my vote. I’m so sick of hearing this.

Read this @flo
rethinking wasted votes

I will blame, in part, third party voters if Trump is elected. But that’s just me, because when votes are counted, they become numbers, not ideals.

I grew up with phrase “it’s not your fault but it is your problem.” I don’t think it would be third party voters fault if Trump is elected. I also don’t think voting for a third party is voting for Trump.

Even so, if candidates A and B are from the two major parties, and I think candidate A would be better for the country than candidate B, I’m voting for candidate A even if my personal beliefs align more closely with third party candidate C. Because it wouldn’t be my fault if candidate B got elected, but it would be my problem. (Or, if I don’t like either candidate but one is more problematic: It would be more of my problem for B to get elected than if candidate A had gotten in.)

I could see how, should I perceive candidates A and B as equally problematic for the country, I might just give up the above strategy and vote for whoever.

In this election, I don’t think both major party candidates are equally problematic. I don’t know if I would ever think that’s the case…. But I can imagine how others might or would, and how a voting disagreement may stem from something deeper than voting strategy.

Well put!

I could see how, should I perceive candidates A and B as equally problematic for the country, I might just give up the above strategy and vote for whoever.

This is exactly how I and many others feel. I refuse to vote for corruption.

The only people responsible for a Trump win will be his supporters, as well as the Dems for pre-selecting a weak candidate 8 years ago and doing everything in their power to make sure she wins Dem nomination.

on that note I’m out. I’m sick to death of defending myself. Clinton does not own my vote! You want to vote for a corrupt individual go right ahead. I’m not giving you shit for it, so please respect my choice.

@Soubresaut Great answer except:
“I could see how, should I perceive candidates A and B as equally problematic for the country, I might just give up the above strategy and vote for whoever.”? Whoever? I’m baffled.
No wonder @jonsblond liked the one statement that doesn’t go with the rest of the post at all.

@Seek I responded to your Supreme Court comment. You didn’t respond my response to it.

You didn’t respond to my mold and fire analogy, but I guess your 2nd and 3rd statement prove it makes sense. to Do vote for Clinton. So, I don’t know what your 1st statement is doing there

@flo -

I didn’t respond to the analogy because I couldn’t make sense of what it was meant to imply.

I didn’t respond to your Wikipedia link because “Maybe the nomination will be unsuccessful” isn’t a good reason to vote in someone who is likely to nominate people (who will hold a position for 20–30 years) that disagree with your political views.

@Seek 1)You made it sound like the president appoints a judge and that is all, end of story. That is not true, and that is what I was exposing.
2)Put an OP asking what the mold and fire analogy could mean.

I have no desire to explore your analogy. That is why I did not ask you personally.

I know full well how the judicial nomination process works, thanks.

Edited to add:
@Soubresaut I don’t know how I missed the 1st statement in your post:

“I don’t think it would be third party voters fault if Trump is elected. I also don’t think voting for a third party is voting for Trump.” and ”….equally problematic….” since Clinton and Trump are nowhere near equallly problematic. So, was wrong in my response above.

… please ignore the “equally problematic” part. you don’t think they are equally problematic. Sorry.

But I don’t see how 3rd party voters wouldn’t be partly at fault though. That is like arguing with pure math.

@flo – “Pure math” should also take into account all the people who could vote, but do not. 57.5 percent of eligible voters bothered to drag their lazy asses to the polls in 2012.

That means Obama/Romney was determined by barely a majority of eligible US voters.
Obama received 65,915,796 votes to Romney’s 60,933,500.

A paltry 126,849,296 votes for one of the two major parties out of a possible 218,959,000.
Third party votes counted for less than 1% of votes. 0.9% to be specific.

If you want to complain, complain at the 47.5% of eligible voters that stay home watching Desperate Housewives reruns or whatever instead of casting a vote at all.

I think I’m just not sure that blame should have a place in voting. Blame seems to imply moral duties, and I’m not sure that we have a moral duty to vote a certain way. I do think certain ways are strategic, and I will advocate for those strategies, but I’m not sure I’m comfortable faulting someone else for not being persuaded by my arguments.

From a more self-interested perspective, if my intention is to try and convince someone to hear my arguments advocating for a particular kind of strategy, I’m not sure trying to blame them for outcomes I don’t want is the most effective rhetorical strategy.

In this case, I don’t believe that Clinton and Trump are anywhere near the same level. The short of it: I worry that a Trump presidency will truly be dangerous in the short-run, and that his apparent “success” will lower the bar of political discourse to something even emptier and hot-headed than what it is today. Conversely, from the information I have, most of the controversies surrounding Hillary have been distorted, and she has a track record both of being able to negotiate and of consistently advocating for her constituents.

However, I know that others have a very different picture of Hillary, one that is on-par (although different from) Trump. I don’t see it, but I can imagine it. Of course I still wish I could convince them to see it my way, but I don’t blame them for seeing it another way. And, if we’re getting to what I wish, I wish I could convince Trump supporters that they really don’t want him as our commander in chief, or as our representative to the world, etc.—thankfully, he seems to be doing that job for me.

My intention is not to convince anyone. Not my job. I think the outcome of the election could have far reaching moral consequences. So, yes, there is a moral imperative involved. In that way, I think people should be more strategic in their voting.

Edited:
@Seek Hi-Lie-ree-yes. Look at our exchanges before your last post. omg.
“I know full well how the judicial nomination process works, thanks.”
“So it soundls like you’re saying: “I was trying to mislead the readers”

2)“I have no desire to explore your analogy. That is why I did not ask you personally.” Why wouldn’t you have the desire to explore the anlogy? Also, why would the question need to be asked of me personally if you or anyone elase were to ask it? Of course it doesn’t since it’s not a personal question.

Um… ok.

@Soubresaut How accomodating and kind of you? I’m willing to bet you wouldn’t feel that way if it were a home owner not taking care of their lawn. Would that be your response if it were if it were the boss of someone in your life? How about a bully student or a the school teacher or principal in your relative’s school acting (mocking/mimicking the handicapped) and saying all the things he said?