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JLeslie's avatar

What do you think about the statement many of the Arabs in Sweden don't call themselves immigrants they call themselves settlers?

Asked by JLeslie (65416points) December 31st, 2016 from iPhone

Ok, so I don’t know how factual this is, but a gentleman said that countries like Sweden have assimilation problems, because many of the Muslim Arabs going there don’t have the attitude of being Swedish, but rather of settling in the country and maintaining their way of life.

What I don’t know is if it’s just a translation thing.

I can see his point that in English it means two very different things. America expects assimilation, although that doesn’t exclude keeping some of your own traditions and culture. I don’t know the attitudes in Sweden.

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21 Answers

Espiritus_Corvus's avatar

It’s about Muslims from the Middle East, which include Arabs, many of whom are war refugees. They refuse to assimilate. They have done what the Swedish government has bent over backwards to prevent for many decades: they have assembled into large, semi-autonomous ethnic communities within their society.

The Swedish government provides, at taxpayer expense, Swedish language school which is 40 hours per week for five months. The curriculum not only covers language, but civics instruction, household money management, history and culture. This is to prevent ethnic ghettos like we have in the States—Liberty City and Calle Ocho in Miami, for instance—and the resultant black markets. Many Muslims refuse to go to these classes on the grounds that it is indoctrination counter to their culture. They have tied this up in the Swedish higher courts for years. No other immigrant group has ever done this before in the history of Swedish immmigration.

At the same time, the Swedish taxpayer goes to great expense to provide night classes in the Mid-East cultures, history and language—taught by immigrants from those cultures—in order that these people and their children will not forget their culture while assimilating into Swedish society. The islamic religion can be practiced freely in Sweden and today there are many mosques for religious observation and instruction.

After the mandatory 5 months schooling, the immigrant is sent to the State Employment Service where they are either found jobs somewhere in the country or, if their work skills are insufficient, they are sent to schools to attain skills, after they are academically and vocationally assessed. Because this requires from 35 to 40 hours of the immigrants time per week, all immigrants receive money for rent, food, transportation and other necessities in amounts much more adequate than the welfare received in the U.S—all at Swedish taxpayer expense..

Muslim communities have shut down schools in Sweden—denying both Muslim and Swedish children their classes—simply because pork products, a mainstay of the Swedish diet—is one of the many s chool lunch options which include foods appropriate to the Arab culture. The Swedes are very conscientous about their immigrants, much more than the US is.

Not all Muslim immigrants behave this way, of course. All immigrants interested in a permanent Swedish residency permit are offered these same services. It is mandatory by law to attend these classes. Many Muslim immigrants are greatful for these services as was I when I immigrated to Sweden. But there are enough resistant Muslims to be a real pain in the ass and many Muslim immigrants are cowed by their political and religious leaders to get involved in this recalcitrance.

It is a sad situation and the Swedish people who, throughout the twentieth century, have had a reputation of humanitarianism since the 1930’s, are now losing patience and voting in more nationalist right wing politicians than they have since becoming a social democracy in the 1920’s.

It is the opinion of a growning number of Swedish citizens that that a large number of Muslims have immigrated into Sweden specifically to disrupt another Western democracy.

It’s a bloody tragedy.

Call_Me_Jay's avatar

Ok, so I don’t know how factual this is

I think I didn’t read any further.

Pachy's avatar

In Swedish law, “settler” may carry legal advantages that “immigrant” does not.

Espiritus_Corvus's avatar

@Pachy There is no meantion of “Settler” or “Settlement” in Swedish immigration law The word is Nybyggare and it means precisely what Settler does in English.

These people want to occupy autonomous settlements within the country of Sweden. They believe it is their civil right to live apart from Swedish society under Sharia Law. That is totally contrary to the philosophy of Swedish immigration. Swedish immigration is about assimilation and creating new taxpayers.

The Muslims who are causing the trouble and cowing the others want to live inside the country but outside the country’s law. Sweden denies them this. The Swedes don’t countenance beheadings or mutilations inside their own country any more than we do. What country in the world in modern times would allow autonomous settlements by foreigners under a seperate legal system? I don’t think there is even a historic precedent for that. The idea is ludicrous.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Until I read @Espiritus_Corvus response, which was, as always, a few levels higher than most, my only thought was that ALL immigrants tend to band together, and maintain their culture and their way of doing things. It’s pure human nature. As the generations advance though, they slowly become more and more assimilated.

I’m a 2nd generation Dutch person. Don’t know much about the Dutch, except they eat weird food (so my mom said) and they wear wooden shoes, which explains why they’re always so cranky and bossy.

Dutchess_III's avatar

And also, I heard they pee in public, like behind bushes and stuff.

ragingloli's avatar

@Dutchess_III
If I have to, so do I.

Call_Me_Jay's avatar

@Dutchess_III I was raised in West Michigan which is filthy with the Dutch. I can confirm they pee behind bushes and stuff.

janbb's avatar

Hey guys -where do you want them to pee? In front of the bushes?

Pachy's avatar

Thanks for the info, @Espiritus_Corvus. I of course knew English words didn’t apply—I only wondered if perhaps there was a legal distinction between the two Swedish labels. But you set me straight.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Well, I’ve peed behind a bush once. OK, so Rick and I had just started dating. We were at a hotel with a bunch of the kids, so we left them in the room watching TV and we went and hung out in his truck. We were still at the talking talking talking stage.
I had to pee but I didn’t want to go into the room because.
There was a access road that ran behind some bushes. I watched for several minutes and never saw a car, so I took my shot.
Well, of course, the minute I started peeing, sure enough, truck lights coming toward me! SHIT! I put my fingers up beside by head and wiggled them, whispering, “I’m a bush! I’m a bush!” I took theater in High School and that’s what you’re supposed to say so you will be convincing in your roll.
Well, the truck drove by and I sneaked a peek….they didn’t even see me! They were staring, open mouthed, over my head, at the parking lot.
I finished right about then and stood up, turned around…and there was Rick, with my purse slung over his shoulder, sashaying through the parking lot, one hand on his hip, looking for all the world like a giant, hairy call girl!
This is Rick. The spectacle he put on was astonishing.

Espiritus_Corvus's avatar

LOL. Diversive action. I like this guy.

Espiritus_Corvus's avatar

Sorry, @Pachy, I didn’t mean for that to look like I was lecturing. I was just clarifying the situation over there. It is a preview of what we may experience. And when the time comes, it will be a great test of our constitution and our national character as it is now for the traditionally liberal Swedes.

These radical Muslims leaders know that they will never get autonomous lands inside a foreigh sovereign state. Their true objective is to rattle the cage, destablized another democracy by unsettling the people and turning them against each other—human rights and liberalism vs.paranoia.. I think we need to be thinking about how we are going to handle it in case it comes over here. We need to decide where the middle ground is now, not after they come. Hell, this country is already divided, these guys could push us over a very nasty cliff. And with Trump as president…

JLeslie's avatar

@Espiritus_Corvus Thanks so much for your answers. I had forgotten you lived in Sweden. One question, maybe you mentioned this and I missed it, the refugees Sweden takes in, does Sweden let them in assuming they will return to their own country eventually? Is it supposed to be a temporary visa?

@Call_Me_Jay I really don’t understand why you have a problem with me saying I don’t know if it’s factual? I didn’t want anyone who reads my *question * to think it’s the gospel and start spreading bad information. The group I was with had a lot of people who were fairly bigoted and afraid of Muslims. They weren’t trustworthy for infirmation.

Especially, your answer baffled me after the well thought out and informative first answer on this Q from Espiritus_Corvus.

Espiritus_Corvus's avatar

@JLeslie When I arrived at Arlanda Airport, Stockholm on Nov, 1st, 1982, Swedish customs asked me my purpose for entering Sweden. I said I was newly married to a Swede and intended on staying. Every foreign visitor to Sweden is asked this question when their passport is examined by customs. The choices are: Tourist which I think is up to 90 days with no extensions; Business which can be extended if need be; Permanent Resident in which it is assumed that one is intending on making Sweden their home; and Asylum where the assumption is the same.as permanent residency.

If you say you are staying, it is assumed that you are applying for permanent residency. So, no. They don’t go to all the expense of schooling, etc., assuming that a person will leave. You are free to leave at any time, howerever, if things don’t work out. And, when I was there, if you didn’t cooperate with meeting the criteria for permanent residency, such as attending the language school, you would be given a flight home at Swedish taxpayer expense. If you didn’t show up for your flight, you would be hunted down, arrested, and placed on a flight.

People seeking asylum or refugee status are treated differently. Under Swedish humanitarian laws, the Swedish government won’t send someone back home if it means personal endangerment. The Muslims causing the trouble have taken advantage of that.

Swedish freedom of religion laws are similar too ours and this is being used to file individual and class action civil rights suits aganst the government to persue their desire to live in autonomous settlements under Sharia Law. In the meantime, many Muslims remain uncooperative. I suspect there are other dynamics at work, but this is the way I understand it.

JLeslie's avatar

^^I had heard Germany gives refugees a 5 year visa. This is another thing I am not sure is factual. The hope and expectation is that the country the refugees come from will improve within that time, and they will return home. If that is the case it sounds different than what Sweden is doing.

Sweden’s idea sounds more realistic to me, except that maybe they are too “understanding” of cultural differences. I think the Europeans might be naive, America has more practice with the immigration and assimilation thing.

We do have the Amish who live fairly autonomously, although they still need to follow the law.

SimpatichnayaZhopa's avatar

Invaders is the proper term for them. Muslims want to take over the world, and they are doing well in Europe at achieving their dream.

ragingloli's avatar

Soviet demagogue.

SimpatichnayaZhopa's avatar

I have reported one scoundrel several times for repeatedly calling me a Russian spy. That is highly insulting, since I hate Russia who invaded my homeland and made me a refugee a few years ago. Now, the “govno” calls me “soviet demagogue”.
Discrimination against Soviets is similar to discrimination against blacks and is illegal.

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