General Question

imrainmaker's avatar

What are your thoughts on the latest attack in the UK?

Asked by imrainmaker (8365points) May 22nd, 2017

Explosion in Ariana Grande’s concert killed 19 people in UK. What are your thoughts on this?

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

63 Answers

Coloma's avatar

Yep, sad but hardly surprising. This is our world.

MrGrimm888's avatar

Agreed. It sucks, but this is the new normal. One day, it’ll probably be that way in the US too.

Coloma's avatar

@MrGrimm888 That’s what’s so shitty about it, it IS the new normal and I am surprised the U.S. has gone as long as we have was the Boston marathon bombing the last attack here? Yep, just a matter of time.

jca's avatar

It seems like every week there’s a terror attack somewhere, either in the US or elsewhere in the world. Shootings, bombings, trucks plowing into street celebrations, bombings, shootings, bombings, shootings. So many that I can’t keep track of the where and when and number dead.

MrGrimm888's avatar

@Coloma . I don’t know if that was the last attack. But, yeah I’m surprised it isn’t already like Israel used to be here…

imrainmaker's avatar

Europe is hit more than US in this regard if we exclude 9/11. We hear news about such attacks so frequently!!

MrGrimm888's avatar

It’s really such a shame. I wish we could all coexist.
Isn’t life hard enough, without killing innocent people?...

Coloma's avatar

Yes, in a perfect world. Sadly this world is about as imperfect as it’s ever been and we are, most certainly doomed if a really big shift doesn’t happen.

imrainmaker's avatar

My question would be is Trump sowing seeds for next 9/11?

rojo's avatar

Well, I don’t know @imrainmaker; lets see.
Hmmmmmm, Most of the weapons used by ISIS and the Taliban come from the US either American made or from weapons purchased from other countries but provided by the US.

Saudi Arabia is the biggest proponent and exporter of Sunni fundamentalism. They have shit tons of spare cash laying around to financially support terror groups outside of their own country and are one of the most prolific in doing so. Those funds that do not go directly to terrorists support Maddrassass or schools world wide that promote the radical Wahhabi sect that is predominant in their country and that encourages intolerance toward any religion that is not theirs, including other muslim ones. They are one of the most repressive societies in the world. Some studies have indicated that the majority of the suicide bombers in Iraq are Saudi. They have provided us with Bin Ladin, at least fifteen of nineteen 9/11 terrorists, the vast majority of the ISIS and Al Qaeda fighters that come from outside Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria.

And we have just agreed to sell them $110 billion in weapons. What the hell could go wrong with that?.

imrainmaker's avatar

^^Yep..That’s my worry is.

Blueroses's avatar

They chose a target that wasn’t possible to foresee. An American Disney star’s performance in a “safe” city.
They attacked the youngest demographic and not a political target. That is terror. It’s terrifying.

imrainmaker's avatar

^^Terrorising the young generation.

MrGrimm888's avatar

Terrorizing us all. What do people hold more sacred than their children?...

Earthbound_Misfit's avatar

I agree, @MrGrimm888. By attacking children and young people, they do terrorize us all.

The Manchester police have just announced a man was carrying “an improvised explosive device”, they don’t know if he was working alone, but he died at the scene. So he was a suicide bomber.

MrGrimm888's avatar

Well. I suppose it would be fair to note that some terrorists are terrorists, because a western nation may have inadvertently killed their children.

Think of how you would feel if your family was killed by a foreign military… I’d probably dedicate my life to hurting that country’s people too…. Not condoning their actions. Just saying….

Earthbound_Misfit's avatar

@MrGrimm, I think most rational people realize one man’s terrorist is another person’s hero. However, I really find it hard to believe anyone who straps a bomb to their body and walks into an entertainment centre filled with kids and young teens or a place of worship in Pakistan or Iraq or Iran or drives a truck into a group of people in Berlin at Christmas is anything but a fucking cowardly arsehole and a terrorist. There is nothing heroic in such behaviour, whatever your ideological stance. There is nothing you can say to me that will justify such action.

Patty_Melt's avatar

It is wonderful how people are pulling together to help the fans, and their family members.
Cabbies have shut down their meters and are taking people for free. Hotels are offering free rooms to kids who without adults, so they will be safe. People are offering their sofas to sleep on because nobody is allowed to leave town yet.

Those poor, frightened kids.

JLeslie's avatar

@imrainmaker Are you American? After 9/11 I heard so many Americans talking who made it sound like 9/11 was from nowhere and unpredictable. We had had a bombing in the towers before, other western countries had had terror attacks, and our embassies and military had been hit in years leading up to it. They were either ignorant or had amnesia.

Now, Europe has had a lot of attacks, are you County Europe as a “country” since the US is so big? England is hit most recently, and previous to this is Belgium and France, and in probably missing one, and wasn’t there one outside of Europe in Australia too? Maybe I remember that incorrectly. America has had Orlando and California, and I would go back as far as Boston. There were serial killings in the Pacific Northwest too, if you want to count that sort of thing. Also, a recent event in NY. Then add in mass shootings or mass killings (because sometimes it’s not with a gun) that don’t have a Muslim name and it’s even worse. Events like the mass shooting in the black church in Charleston, there are others.

Shit is happening all over. I don’t think I feel safer because I’m in America. Not that I walk around paranoid about it.

An attack on Western Europe is like an attack on America with this kind of thing. I’d say pretty much an attack anywhere in the world. If these extreme Muslims see fit to attack countries that are majority not Muslim, that all of the Americas and all of Europe and Australia, and significant parts of East Asia.

JLeslie's avatar

My word above County should be counting.

imrainmaker's avatar

@JLeslie – I’m not trying to downplay anything happening in USA. Here’s the “Timeline”: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/05/22/timeline-recent-terror-attacks-against-west.html of attacks happened against western countries(including USA). If you see how many attacks were carried out against EU nations VS USA you’ll come to know. I’m counting them as one because they are so small compared to US. Even if you consider North America VS Europe it’ll be the same. Im not saying anyone can feel safe in such environment but I would definitely be concerned more if living in Paris than in NY.

JLeslie's avatar

^^I can’t say I’d feel safer in NYC. Even if statistically Europe has more attacks going on, I think at any moment there could be another in the US.

That’s just me, I guess you could accuse me of not really analyzing the statistics, and going on fear a little. Not that I live in fear about it.

rojo's avatar

@Earthbound_Misfit I can understand what you are saying and can even agree with it but I also agree with @MrGrimm888. I know when something like this happens I think maybe it is time to turn the Middle East into a huge expanse of sheet glass but then I begin to wonder if I am thinking just like that Syrian who has had to help dig his family out of the rubble and bury them or the Iraqi whose family was gunned down at a check point.
And If I would do something like that for people I do not even know what would I do, or be capable of doing if it were my child or my wife? Do you think I would care about your opinion? Do you think it would concern me to be thought a coward or an asshole? No, the mind is set on revenge and if I can’t get to the people responsible, the politicians, their generals or the soldiers who carry out their killing for them then I will get to those who keep them in power. And whether you considered my family member a target or just collateral damage that happened so some CEO can bring home a bigger bonus or some politician can stay in office it would make no difference to me. You kill my kids and right or wrong in your eyes, I will kill yours. Would I be a suicide bomber, no, I would want to live to see you suffer the same pain I do before you die.

I am sorry, @Earthbound_Misfit I am not directing this at you personally but at what we as a society have become.

MrGrimm888's avatar

@Earthbound_Misfit. As I said , prior to your post, I don’t condone it. I agree that it is deplorable.

But if westerners, and others, don’t see why these things happen, and that our country’s actions are sometimes to blame, we’re doomed to endure it forever.

MrGrimm888's avatar

@rojo ‘s post is what I mean. If I put myself in the terrorists (some anyway) shoes, who knows what I would be capable of doing.

When you lose everything, your moral compass gets thrown off…

DominicY's avatar

^ Sure, but a lot of these terrorists (including this one) are second-generation immigrants born and raised in the West. It’s hard to see them as people who’ve “lost everything” the way a direct victim of war in the Middle East may feel. While we don’t know enough about this current attacker, past attackers (such as the brothers Tsarnaev) seemed to indicate that their draw to terrorism or terrorist groups like ISIS was a sense of feeling dedicated to a real cause—disillusionment and aimlessness in young people seems to play a role. Then again, many here have felt disillusioned or aimless and their instinct isn’t to go bomb teenagers, so I don’t know.

Earthbound_Misfit's avatar

I’ll come back to you later, but the man responsible for this act was born and bred in the UK. And he was 22 and I doubt he’s ever dug or seen a child dug out of the rubble after Western military action.

I also don’t think Isis care about that father in Syria. They want power and control.

MrGrimm888's avatar

^You’re probably right. Probably just a gullible idiot,who was brainwashed.

But the terrorist ideology does have roots in the middle east, where years of foreign intervention have had catastrophic results on civilian populations.

If such actions by the west didn’t occur, the people recruiting these terrorists would have nothing to point to to validate their agendas.

War is NEVER the answer. The west is seeing ripple effects from it’s wars/conflicts in the middle east. There is much to be learned here, if the west can be accountable…

Coloma's avatar

@JLeslie I agree, America is overdue for another big attack of some sort, it’s just a matter of when and where not if. My daughter just arrived home Sat. night from 2 weeks in Europe, glad she is safely home.

RedDeerGuy1's avatar

That Asian kamikaze started the trend of blowing oneself up for the emperor/religious leader in world war two WWII. That you would be hard pressed to find Americans to do that for anything. Still life is pretty shitty nowadays world wide for most people.

Patty_Melt's avatar

I think hiding behind excuses like doing it for lost loved ones is bullshast.
I have lost and lost and lost in my life. I am not blowing up people I don’t know to prove any point.
These people are demented. They need to be erased. I am fine with them killing themselves, but leave the rest of us alone. If they are killing to make a point, fine. Let them gather together in a huge open desert encampment and blow themselves off the map.
President Trump had it exactly right in his speech. “Those people worship no god, they worship death.”

JLeslie's avatar

@Patty_Melt Unfortunately, even the “good” guys do it. When we went into Iraq, a lot of the people enlisting were upset about 9/11, and wanted to get those people back, because they harmed us. Forget that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, that’s minutiae. “We” having been caused a lot of pain and fear caused some people to want to just blow “them” the hell up. They were willing to rusk their lives to do it, and we applaud them for taking the risk.

Where does it end? It sucks.

josie's avatar

You can only think three things
1. The people who do such things are justified by geopolitical events
2. You just don’t know what to think- aren’t there two sides to every story?
3. They are assholes, and the due process of law guaranteed by most Western nations is obsolete in this case, we shouldn’t have to tolerate it, and we are morally justified in killing them before they kill is. Or afterwards if that is the only choice.

RedDeerGuy1's avatar

@josie Or 4.We are all human with good and bad parts. Give a man power and it exposes his corruption and his nobel parts

stanleybmanly's avatar

Europe gets the bombings while we’ve sewn up the mass shooting franchise. The world’s pscychopaths yell in unison “pay attention to me.”

Coloma's avatar

@stanleybmanly Yep, we’ve got the monopoly on Mcshootings, one around every corner.

NomoreY_A's avatar

You don’t really want to know my thoughts right now. Maybe I can come back to this when I’m less angry and more rational.

imrainmaker's avatar

^^ I had to put it in the question as directed by mod team..)

LeavesNoTrace's avatar

As a Manhattanite, this makes me very nervous. After one of these attacks, we always have a visibly increased police presence in NYC as well as law enforcement working round the clock behind the scenes surveilling the city and any potential threats. Every day before we go to work, my boyfriend and I embrace and tell each other to be safe and vigilant out there.

As others have said, the Ariana Grande concert being targeted was especially horrible because it was likely chosen because the scumbag wanted to blow up kids, and I think young Western girls in particular. To radical Qu’ran thumpers like these ISIS whackjobs, Ariana Grande and other female pop stars represent playful, carefree female sexuality and that doesn’t sit too well with them. This was an attack on women, children, and Western Civilization.

As far to the left as I lean, I’m not in favor of bringing in a bunch of refugees with this in mind. Even one more incident like this is too many.

Response moderated (Writing Standards)
josie's avatar

If only we could figure out what the bomber has in common with these other attacks, we might be able do a better job of seeing them coming. ;)

JLeslie's avatar

I read that the UK and US had intel in this bomber, and that he recently traveled to Libya. I’m not sure how good my information is. If that’s the case I guess we (the royal we, no pun intended) weren’t watching him well enough.

Coloma's avatar

I think the homeless guy that jumped into altruistic action is a real hero and am so happy he is getting help with a place to live and work. Always a small silver lining even in the face of horrific events.

@JLeslie Isn’t the bomber a British citizen of Libyan decent? I think I read they arrested his father to.

Patty_Melt's avatar

His parents are both Libyan born. They moved to the UK where he and his little brother were born.
His little brother has stated to authorities that they both were ISIS. The last I heard, the dad had gone to Libya before the attack and was there still, but I also heard at some point that he flat denied that any of his family was radicalized. Several family members and friends have been arrested, but I am not sure if his dad has yet been taken.
Ariana’s mom was involved in helping to round up kids, keep them safe, until family could find them.

JLeslie's avatar

Wow. I’m very interested in how they became terrorists.

Coloma's avatar

It’s all just so sad on every front.
The terrorists are victims of their own twisted religious and cultural upbringing. Poor innocent little children turned into delusional killers.

imrainmaker's avatar

There’s another one in London on London bridge where 6 people are reportedly killed and several injured.

Espiritus_Corvus's avatar

^^Okay, Okay, Coloma. We know you just got out of the klink, but don’t over do it. The mods won’t buy it. You have to be more subtle. LOL.

Patty_Melt's avatar

Death toll in London is at seven.
Fake bomb vests to make cops shoot them.
I hate these attacks, but I have to appreciate them killing themselves. It saves citizens from the costs of trial and imprisonment.

Earthbound_Misfit's avatar

^ They were shot by the police.

Patty_Melt's avatar

That’s what I said. They wore fake bomb vests. That was for suicide by cop.

Earthbound_Misfit's avatar

You can’t say you know what their motivation was. You’re assuming that, but it could just have been to cause further fear. None of us know what they were thinking.

Patty_Melt's avatar

The police learned it to be fact as they conducted investigation and arrested suspects. As reported in the news. So, yeah, I feel pretty sure of my previous statements. I made no assumptions at all.

MrGrimm888's avatar

^Hard to say. But it seems to me that in any of these attacks, the terrorists know that they are going to die. The vests may have indeed been a way to guarantee that they weren’t taken alive. Or, maybe they thought the police would be reluctant to fire on them, in fear of detonating the vests…

Patty_Melt's avatar

How is it hard to say? It was told to the coppers during the investigation. It is verifiable as any other fact.

Earthbound_Misfit's avatar

@Patty_Melt, I find it hard to believe the British police are releasing information about their investigations to the media so soon. Where was this reported?

I might add, the US security services released privileged intelligence information to the US press without the permission of the British police. I’d really doubt that a few days after such an event that the British police are releasing such information to the media.

Now perhaps people they’ve interviewed have told them this, but the terrorists are dead. So any discussion about why they behaved as they did is hearsay.

MrGrimm888's avatar

I’m not arguing Patty. I was just adding my opinion…. You’re probably right.

Patty_Melt's avatar

@Earthbound_Misfit I don’t care what you believe.
I responded to this question with recent news as it has been reported. I force nobody to believe any of it. I was watching a recorded playback of the news as I wrote the post. Believe, or don’t. The facts are all over tv and internet now, so what was news when I first posted it here is now history. I posted it so those were as yet unaware could know to check for details if they wanted to know more.
By the time I initially posred, they had already arrested 12 people, and interviewed several more. Lots was known, and lots had been reported, and updated by then.

Earthbound_Misfit's avatar

And if these ‘facts’ are all over the news, you shouldn’t mind sharing them. I’ve seen a couple of news stories where the Metropolitan Police assistant commissioner has said they wore fake vests ‘suggesting’ they wanted to be killed. The key word there is “suggesting”. That’s his interpretation and it certainly isn’t the British police releasing information from their investigation or interviews.

Even if they do have people giving their opinions regarding why they wore fake vests, it doesn’t make it fact. They are providing their opinions. They are speculating. The only people who really know why they wore those vests are the terrorists. And I stand by my comment that the British police are highly unlikely to release any significant information to the media at this point.

You can get your knickers in a twist, but at this point, none of us can do more than speculate about why those terrorists behaved as they did.

Patty_Melt's avatar

My knickers aren’t twisted. You are the one having the hissy.
I could care less. Just commented I am happy these jerks keep killing themselves. You ran with it. So what if it wasn’t suicide? Then it was through their ineptness they died. Still considered killing themselves in my book.
Maybe they wore fake bomb vests because they thought it would make them look sexy. That would sure make sense.
I’m impressed with the guy who threw the chair at them, hoping they would follow him up to a main street where police would spot them.
No, I’m not guessing about that either. I heard him say it himself.

MrGrimm888's avatar

Knickers lol… Don’t hear that every day….

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