Have you ever been betrayed or ostracized by long-time friends?

Does family count?

A good question which made me realize that in my adult life I’ve never once been let down or disappointed by a single friend, even co-workers (who I guess can be considered only ‘professional friends’).

So with zero disenchanting episodes to report, I guess I can’t be of much help here today, only to say that following your instincts and being pretty selective about who your “friends” in life are going to be will go a long way toward making most of your days pretty uncomplicated.

Many people believe that the more “friends” you have, the more enjoyable life will be.

Sorry…...not necessarily true…...

No, but I have dumped a handful of friends over the years for different reasons.
I have experienced betrayal in a romantic relationship some years ago.
You heal from betrayal by realizing it is never “personal”, meaning that persons character is an equal opportunity betrayer. haha
If not you somebody else, and probably has been and will be somebody else in the future.

Well sorta a friend I had known all my life, all of a sudden decided he didn’t want to be friends any longer and gave me some really lame excuses of why it hurt for a while but I got over it.
His loss not mine.

Yes, he was a close friend that I met in highschool freshman year in 2005. In 2012 he stole about 10,000 worth of things from me and family to buy drugs. He went to rehab soon after that and we haven’t talked since.

Here’s a link to a question I asked the day it happened:

https://i.fluther.com/148918/would-you-still-be-friends-with-somebody-if-they-stole-money/

No.
Disappointed once or twice but never that other stuff.

Thanks, all. I’ve had a little bit of a rough go in this department the past year or so. A couple of women who I thought were lifelong friends turned out not to be and kind of seem to be colluding against me after I had a falling out with one in Spring 2015. I can’t say for certain, but it certainly seems that way.

They both saw me get sexually assaulted on two separate occasions and did nothing but instead to act like I’m making it up or crazy. Others are supporting me but being kind of head-in-the-sand about the situation because they don’t want to be partisan. It’s a complicated situation. I’ve posted about it before, but it’s hard to explain.

If 2 “friends” watched me get sexually assaulted on 2 different occasions and didn’t help, and acted like it didn’t happen, they would not be anywhere near me ever again.
Those aren’t friends and you should get them off your radar and out of your life. I don’t understand why you are even letting them get to you.

Never with good friends (I have a few good friends who I consider “friends till the end” in real life). With casual friends I’ve reconnected with on FB after years of not seeing them, we talk occasionally about getting together and it doesn’t happen, but I don’t consider that betrayal.

@LeavesNoTrace: I gave @chyna a good answer for what she wrote and I agree with it but I also am curious (and realize you may not want to get into details) why the friends feel you’re making it up. I always am interested in hearing the other side of the story before coming to a conclusion.

@jca I wish I could say for certain.

Both assaults happened in bars several years apart. The first one, was like 2010 when we were first of legal drinking age. We were at a local hometown dive and a man who had been following me around pestering me all night, pinned me against the bar and shoved his hands down my pants and groped my vagina. It was horrifying and I went home immediately. My friends were there and we were all drinking but they kind of shrugged it off and did nothing. If it had happened now, I would have made a much bigger scene.

My late mother encouraged me to press charges but I was home from college on break and didn’t want the trauma/inconvenience of going through the system. Plus we lived in a really small town and I would have been dragged through the mud. One of my friends now says that I must be making it up/exaggerating even though she was literally there when it happened.

The second one was a little over a year ago, when visiting another friend in her city. A man put his hand up my skirt and I told my friend what happened and she told me to “lighten up and go with the flow”. She was shitfaced and acting horribly that night and now denies it happened.

Jesus Christ.

Body cameras on cops ? Well, maybe…..but perhaps we should make body cameras for women in drinking establishments more of a priority…

@LeavesNoTrace I think you have to find a way to put this issue to bed for yourself. For some reason, your friends are not able to validate your truth in this matter. So you have to decide whether they are worth keeping as friends and deal with your issues around the assaults elsewhere or drop them and find new friends. No point in continually flogging a dead horse.

@janbb The problem is that I’m being ostracized and punished for speaking my truth. It’s disgusting how victims of sexual assaults are treated in this country.

Maybe you’re speaking your truth to the wrong folks? Find a group for people who have been assaulted?

@LeavesNoTrace I think part of the problem is that your truth is that you were assaulted. Their truth is that you weren’t. If you simply go with THE truth, you might get farther. They might still have their heads in the sand, but it will help you.

@snowberry THE truth is that I was assaulted. My friends saw it. And it’s easier for them to stick their heads in the sand than acknowledge their complacency.

@LeavesNoTrace Sounds to me like your “friends” deserve a different title.
.
I nominate “People that I thought I knew”......

@leavesnotrace Then why are you bothering with these people?

Maybe what your friends may or may not have seen (you said you were all drinking, in fact you referred to one as being “shit faced”) they interpret differently. Most people don’t equate being groped as being assaulted. It is taking a long time for the world to catch up to the reality that any uninvited and unwelcome physical contact of a sexual nature is actually a sexual assault.
These are not people with whom you will see eye to eye on this issue. They may see what they are doing as avoiding you because you are angry, where you see that they are “ostrasizing and punishing” you.

I am sorry you are going through such turmoil, it sounds like distance is what you need. Make some new friends. It is painful, I know, but it seems necessary at this time.

Healing will begin when you have other people in your life to spend time and share experiences with.

@LeavesNoTrace atta girl! :)

@LeavesNoTrace: Do you talk about it a lot? I’m wondering if the “friends” are feeling like it’s been rehashed often. I’m just speculating.

@jca since they have apparently never acknowledged it, are you saying she should just shut up and move on? That’s what her “friends” would like too.

No, I’m not saying that, @snowberry. Maybe she talks about it incessantly. I don’t know. I’m just speculating.

@jca No. I don’t. I tried to once or twice but to no avail. Now I hold it in and try to accept that they aren’t the friends I thought I was and it’s time to move on.

“Try” is the operative word.

If you ever go out with them again, don’t, for heavens sake, drink! You’ll need to be able to watch out for your own self.

@snowberry Yeah, less than more than learned. It was one of the first things I said after it happened last time. “I’m never drinking with this person again.”

@leavesnotrace I think rather than saying “ok I’m never drinking with this person again” I would say “I’m never putting myself in this position again.” Meaning don’t get so drunk that you can’t defend yourself or learn self defense so you can take care of yourself. You seem to be blaming the girl you were with for this. Did you think she should have protected you? You said she was “shit faced” so I don’t see how she even comprehended what was happening around her.

Good advice from @chyna. Good advice for anyone – don’t get so drunk when you’re out that you can’t take care of yourself.

What @chyna and @jca said.

It is not the woman’s job to stay sober in order to protect herself. No one – male or female – is asking for trouble by drinking.

@LeavesNoTrace You were assaulted. The people you were with do not agree with you. Their reasons after all this time are irrelevant. Get therapy to put this assault behind you, and get new friends.

I disagree, @Hawaii_Jake. If one is drunk, one cannot even provide a description of the assailant to the authorities.

@jca @canidmajor @chyna

I had some drinks but I wasn’t drunk or dressed provocatively.

In fact, just last week I was assaulted by a homeless groper on the street in broad daylight who ran up behind me on a Manhattan street. Are you going to find a way to lay blame on me for that too? Interestingly, I was on my way to a corporate job interview so you can imagine how sober I was and how conservatively I must have been dressed.

@Hawaii_Jake Thank you for not living in the 1950s and not blaming the victim. We have a long way to go as a society.

@LeavesNoTrace: So you weren’t drunk. You seem, however, to be blaming your friends for not agreeing with you, and they were drunk. No one here is blaming you for the assaults, that’s not the issue you’ve brought up.
You have a different perspective than they do, that is the issue.

You’ve been upset about this for a long time, there has been no resolution, @Hawaii_Jake is correct that you probably need therapy to get past what you see as your friends’ betrayal. It is unlikely that they are colluding against you (your own words), they are just not reacting as you would have them react.

You seem to want to turn this General Q about losing friends into a debate about what is considered sexual assault in this country and how victims of same are treated. I recommend, in that case, that you ask the mods to move it to Social.

@canidmajor I didn’t say that my friends caused the assaults. I said that they denied what actually happened, minimized, and gave mealy-mouthed reactions.

And yes, if you’re going to blame my assaults on me, then yes, I will defend myself and other victims. Nobody deserved what I’ve been through and nobody deserves to be so betrayed—especially by female friends.

Ex friends? I would find it extremely difficult to hang around these people, even for an evening. If I have a friend, they need to relate to me with integrity, or they aren’t my friend anymore. Period.

@snowberry I think they are ex-friends. Even if I’m able to socialize with them again at weddings, funerals, etc. I don’t think I’ll ever trust or feel safe with them again. Makes me very sad, but we live and we learn.

No one is blaming you at all. To me, you seemed to be blaming your friends. Until your post explaining what you were actually feeling about them, it seemed you were expecting them to take care of you. Again, no one is blaming you. Still, I would dump the friends.

@chyna I understand, which is why I wanted to clarify my feelings. I didn’t expect them to take care of me. Simply not being horrible when I stood up for myself or acting like having someone throw me into a bar and cup my genitals or grope me under my dress is totally fine and I needed to just not be upset about it would have sufficed.

I think that both of them kind of grew up to think that all male attention is good male attention.

Over many years, I’ve seen them both tolerate behavior from men that I think is terrible and seem surprised when I say things like “No, it’s not okay for someone to touch you like that/talk to you like that if you don’t want it.” They also seem to think that the male gaze is something to compete for and that if you’re getting it—you must have wanted it.

Ok – so they really don’t have the same mindset as you. Time to detach as you say.

@LeavesNoTrace: I’m not “blaming the victim.” I know you clarified it recently that you weren’t drunk, but what I was saying about being drunk while out in public is that it’s more helpful to not be drunk. I was saying it’s better to remain where we are able to handle ourselves. That’s all. I was never blaming you, never saying it was your fault.

I read through the answers here.

My take is your friends might define assault differently. Jus that one said, go with the flow, I think shows that she didn’t see the behavior as assault.

It sounds to me, from my point-of-view, you were assaulted, groped for sure, and I can understand why it bothers you so much, but I would direct my anger at the man who assaulted you, not the girlfriends.

Having said that, as friends, once they see how distraught you are about it, they should have, in my opinion, changed their tune fast, and told you they hadn’t understood how bad it was. They should have believed you. I believe you.

I also think girls travel in groups so we can come to each other’s rescue, but there is no guarantee someone can or will be there the moment you need the help. Plus, if everyone is drunk, well then that plan is out the window.

You already said you’re not going to drink in situations like this again, so I don’t want to lecture too much on that point, but you do need to keep your wits about you. It doesn’t matter that no one should touch you without your permission, because what matters most is that you are not injured in any way. When I say injured I mean psychologically and physically. It won’t matter that they did something criminal, what matters is your health.

It’s like when a traffic accident happens and the person winds up hurt very badly, paralyzed, and it’s the other drivers fault. Well, so fucking what it was the other guys fault, the paralyzed guy is still paralyzed. Maybe the paralyzed guy did nothing illegal or wrong, but maybe he was tired, and if he had been more alert he might have avoided the accident.

I’m never going to say a girl deserves to be assaulted because of what she wears, or if she is drunk. Assault is assault period. Criminal behavior, arrest that guy. But, I will advise women how to stay safe. No more than one drink. Never drink from a glass not given directly to you by the waiter or bartender. Once you leave your glass at the table, then you are done drinking from that glass, get a new drink. Don’t be embarrassed or shy to tell a man no, or push him off of you.

I can’t know exactly what those incidents were like for you, they sound quite upsetting. What I can tell you is how I handle similar ones. I just decide that guy was a fucking asshole. I don’t dwell on it too long. If you can’t put it easily behind you, then I think you maybe should go to therapy to work through it. It obviously bothers you, that’s completely legitimate to me, completely understandable, and why not get some help.

If your friends don’t support you, get some new friends. Seriously, find people who make you feel safe, appreciated, loved, who you trust. You don’t have to formerly divorce these other girls, just seek better friends.

@LeavesNoTrace: Either you mistakenly directed a post at me, or you didn’t read my post before lashing out.
Get some therapy. Get new friends. Find a way to deal with both circumstances. This carrying on about how awful your friends are for such a long time is not healthy for you. Learn how to move on. They are probably not awful people, but they are obviously not appropriate friends for you anymore.