General Question

Strauss's avatar

Is the 25th Amendments an option that should be considered?

Asked by Strauss (20292points) 1 week ago

U. S. Constitution, 25th Amendment, Section 4

There are some reports (okay,
I saw it on Twitter) that White House Chief of Staff Kelly is prepping to take action to remove President Trump from office under the 25th Amendment as an alternative to impeachment. Whaddya think? Is it possible? Might it cause a constitutional crisis?

I know political discussion can be spirited and sometimes emotional. That’s fine. Let’s keep it civil.

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25 Answers

Mariah's avatar

I do not want President Pence.

But, it is better than nuclear annihilation.

Hawaii_Jake's avatar

Looks like it would set up a crisis. It would ultimately have to be decided by ⅔ vote of both houses of Congress. That’s a tricky number to reach.

But we’ve got chaos now. The only reason there’s any semblance of a tiny bit of stability is because of Kelley, Tillerson, and Mattis.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

I’ll take Pence over Trump anyday. I do not think Trump will make it another year if he keeps this shit up.

Brian1946's avatar

@Hawaii_Jake

Tillerson is also mentioned via @Mariah‘s link, which consists of Robert Reich interviewing a Republican former member of Congress:

“Me: So they’re pissed off?”

“He: Not just that. I mean, they have thick hides. The personal stuff got them to notice all the other things. The wild stuff, like those threats to North Korea. Tillerson would leave tomorrow if he wasn’t so worried Trump would go nuclear, literally.”

stanleybmanly's avatar

Of course it is. I’m frankly
surprised that he’s lasted this long. Every day he is allowed to remain just further indicts the Congress on its ineptitude.

MrGrimm888's avatar

All realistic options should be on the table.

Zaku's avatar

What are the ways to get rid of both Trump and Pence?

josie's avatar

Why not wait until 2020 and save everybody a lot of trouble.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@josie because an couple on million people that currently are covered be Obamacare maybe dead. Or maybe that is not a a lot of trouble, they’re just dead people.

MrGrimm888's avatar

@josie . Impeachment is not a failure of our government, it is an example of a healthy /functioning government. No reason to wait until 2020, when there are existing ways to remove the cancer that is Trump now. It’s not just that Trump is a loser. He could start another war, or worse…

We need to get Trump out ASAP, and learn from what a horrific mistake we all allowed to happen. Unfortunately, we also learned how shitty a quarter of our country is too…

The sooner both Trump and his supporters are slowed, the better for the whole world.

Pandora's avatar

I don’t think Kelly is planning that but I’m sure the Legislative Branches are giving it some serious thought. (Trump plans to give tax cuts to the rich and even bigger tax cuts to businesses and increase taxes by 2 percent to the poor. That is not going to go over big. And now that he made it America Great for Insurance companies to rip off people by continuing to raise prices, but now they can offer less for that same money. Yeah for insurance companies. Boo for people who have pre-existing conditions who may not be able to afford insurance at all or medicines. )
Now to get to the point.
Getting us further in debt to help the rich get richer and to help insurance companies get richer will not help decrease our debt. It will go through the roof this year. Come next mid term election people will be pissed off. Especially the republican poor and they will want to crucify someone and 2 years will be too far to get Trump. So there will be a lot of Republicans who will have to answer for not stopping Trump and they know it. It’s going to be Bush 2 all over again. A war we can’t afford. Tax breaks we can’t afford. Trump is going to tank the economy, if he doesn’t get us blown up first.
So I predict the Republicans running next year will sooner get rid of Trump. This can still cost them but either way they are going down and taking DJ out can still give them a fighting chance.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@Pandora:
The insurance companies aren’t getting rich, the people under 35 or whatever will not be paying into the premiums to pay for everyone else. Less money to pay for people that have pre existing or are sicker and have required time in hospital.

The war we can’t afford is still on the table for DjT (he can’t wait to throw a bomb or something to make him feel important at North Korea).

Tax breaks are to pay back his rich buddies an backers.

They, ”the GOP” have tanked already for many, I have several very Conservative friends that are back pedaling on their reasons for getting old orange hair in the WH. Some are on fixed income and others are wondering how they are going to pay for medical bills next year.

Call_Me_Jay's avatar

Whatever it takes. Trump is mentally impaired. I recognize the symptoms from my own mother and her dementia. His decline is obvious.

My hope is that he does the right thing and resigns. Odds are good that Mueller’s findings will persuade Republicans to privately tell Trump that he can resign or be impeached.

funkdaddy's avatar

It’s crazy talk without a huge moment that would unite every sane individual. Seriously.

If I’m reading right, it would take:

1) Mike Pence initiating a vote of the cabinet. This isn’t exactly a guy known for going his own route and now he’s going to initiate a coup? Even if we just think of him as shrewd, he’d have to be 100% sure he’d get the result he’s looking for or it would be political suicide.

2) A majority vote by the cabinet members – Every single one of these people was appointed by Trump. Most have little other political experience. Find 13 here you think are going along, I’m guessing the CEO of World Wrestling has probably seen worse.

3) A ⅔ vote separately in both houses of Congress – or he gets his chair back in 21 days, and now he’s angry…

Even if all of his cabinet wanted him out, that’s wildly risky and inefficient, even with a sure outcome. No one in their right mind initiates that rather than as a last resort.

Short of the president having a complete break with reality, it’s not happening.

Zaku's avatar

@Tropical_Willie You wrote: “The insurance companies aren’t getting rich”
They aren’t?

“Aetna, Anthem, Cigna, Humana and UnitedHealth Group — the big five for-profit insurers — cumulatively collected $4.5 billion in net earnings in the first three months of 2017. That was by far the biggest first-quarter haul for the group since the ACA exchanges went live in 2014.”https://www.axios.com/profits-are-booming-at-health-insurance-companies-2418194773.html

filmfann's avatar

I don’t believe Kelly would do this, but if he does, I’d support it.

flutherother's avatar

I would be sceptical of anything I hear on Twitter but Trump was, astonishingly, legitimately elected and we have to respect that. Some kind of political coup is the last thing the United States needs and could make things immeasurably worse.

MrGrimm888's avatar

^Impeachment is not a coup. It is an option designed for this specific scenario. A failsafe.

flutherother's avatar

This question isn’t about impeachment it is about the 25th Amendment. I don’t see how that can legitimately be used while Trump is trying to carry out the election promises that got him elected. Using the 25th Amendment as an excuse to get rid of a guy whose policies or methods you disapprove of would amount to a coup.

The option designed for this scenario is the United States mid-term elections.

LostInParadise's avatar

Not gonna happen. Trump is not deranged. He is self-centered, impulsive and bigoted, but he seems to have a good idea of what he can get away with and still receive support from his base. He is also incompetent, but not sufficiently to justify his ouster.

Zaku's avatar

@flutherother “I don’t see how that can legitimately be used while Trump is trying to carry out the election promises that got him elected.”
Interesting. You have a very different idea of what the situation is than I do.

* I don’t think Trump is trying to carry out election promises, except the ones that happen to coincide with his desires or the wishes of some of his associates. He seems very clearly doing his own thing, including the opposite of promises such as “drain the swamp”, instead loading up on corrupt industry representatives clearly picked to not do the job of their positions for the people, but to serve industrial desires. “A complete ban on foreign lobbyists raising money for American elections.” – nope. “I would not be a president who took vacations. I would not be a president that takes time off.” – LOL. Release his tax returns – LOL.

* I also don’t think the promises got him elected. Certainly most of the promises, and most of the things he’s done, are things I very definitely do NOT want done. This last election both of the major-party candidates had bottom-of-the-barrel approval ratings. The only reason he got elected is because our voting system leads to either a Republican or a Democrat being elected, whatever corrupt crap candidates they end up offering us, and because they were more or less equally disliked this time, and because despite his staggeringly obvious immaturity, dysfunction, egomania, self-contradiction and incompetence, there are enough angry and resentful feelings out there that he ended up barely being elected. It’s not about the people actually wanting a parade of corporate giveaways.

flutherother's avatar

@Zaku The only thing worse than having Trump as president is that a large section of the American public supports him. I keep hoping they will see the light and that support will ebb away but there isn’t much sign of it. I am not a Trump fan.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

WTF are you talking about, support has evaporated

flutherother's avatar

I’m talking about Trump’s approval ratings. I am disappointed that despite the shambles in the White House many Americans still think he is doing a good job.

Zaku's avatar

@flutherother That’s a nice link, particularly the comparison section at the bottom. Notice that other presidents tended to at least start out over 50%, not under. But really, although Trump’s approval is very bad, given how he’s been, I would hope his rating would be even lower…

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