Social Question

stanleybmanly's avatar

Does anyone believe there’s a chance in hell that Roy Moore is being falsely accused?

Asked by stanleybmanly (18297points) November 14th, 2017 from iPhone

if so why?

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51 Answers

zenvelo's avatar

Nope, not after the news came out that he had been banned from a mall in the 1970s for hitting on teenage girls.

And not after the public accusation by a fifth woman yesterday.

LostInParadise's avatar

It is common knowledge that Moore dated teenagers when he was in his 30’s.

Those senators that you see smiling ear to ear are all Democrats. The best thing for them to do in the case of Moore is absolutely nothing. Let the Republicans screw themselves. The GOP is talking about running a write-in candidate for Alabama senator. That would give the Democrats a fighting chance to pick up a Senate seat. Who would have thought? And it makes a difference, because the election is next month. Assuming that the Republicans can’t get a tax bill vote before then, all the Democrats would need to defeat it would be two Republican votes.

elbanditoroso's avatar

No, not a chance. Too much smoke to say that there was no fire.

But here we are in the Trump alternate reality world, where the Bible Belt offers up the nastiest perverts, and no one in leadership cares.

janbb's avatar

Nope, I don’t think so. But do I think there’s a chance he’ll win the election? Yup.

filmfann's avatar

^^^^ I’m with her.

marinelife's avatar

No. Multiple women do not make stuff about sexual assault up. The last woman to come forward had his every word and action imprinted on her mind for decades. She was very detailed.

Hawaii_Jake's avatar

“Does anyone…” Yes, many right wing voters in Alabama believe so according to the polls.

Do I? No.

Aethelwine's avatar

Sure, and I have some ocean front property in Idaho to show ya.

Kardamom's avatar

But the multitudes of women who came forth with allegations against Trump are all liars. Why aren’t those women believed?

It just seems weird that the majority of people, both Republicans and Democrats, believe the women in Moore’s case, but most Republicans still do not believe the women in Trump’s case, even though he said on National TV that he comitted sexual assault.

Where is the disconnect?

Jeruba's avatar

Maybe the president will look into his eyes and just know his denial is sincere.

They say it takes one to know one. But my friend the professional magic performer (and fraud exposer) says the easiest person to fool is a con man. Because he doesn’t think he can be fooled.

Love_my_doggie's avatar

Nope, especially after yesterday’s revelations. The most recent woman claims that he frequented the restaurant where she was working and was very friendly and flirtatious. She has her high school yearbook, signed by him as ”...Love, Roy Moore D.A.” He’s trying to deny any knowledge of either the restaurant or his accuser. Yet, she has physical proof that he was a regular customer and knew her. Who’s the liar, and who’s consistent and credible?

MrGrimm888's avatar

Yes. There’s a chance.

Why?

When politics are involved, nothing is out of bounds…

If you want to know if I think he did it, absolutely. But I’m really basing that on a handful of information. Most of my belief comes from my gut. I’d hate to be ruined over people’s opinions. But my gut says, “he did it, he isn’t the least bit sorry, and he’ll do it again if he can.”

chyna's avatar

What clinched it for me was the signing of the teenagers yearbook. He said he didn’t know her, never heard of the restaurant. But she has his signature.

Yellowdog's avatar

I think the sexual assault may be exaggerated—but there is no doubt that he dated girls in their mid and late teens when he was in his mid and early 30s and touched them inappropriate ways. I like the values and beliefs he espouses but he has forfeited his right to serve in a political, teaching, or church position.

stanleybmanly's avatar

I wonder if the girls involved think back on it as “dating”.

Yellowdog's avatar

A lot of us put up with a lot when we were teenagers. Some of us were violently assaulted, or pressured into sex, by our peers. Chances are, girls didn’t think that pressure from an older man was any different. But it was. Especially an authority figure—should have been above reproach, but used his position to his advantage. It took 30 years but he did get his “someday” we all tell ourselves will eventually fall

seawulf575's avatar

Not entirely sure. I will say the hype over some of these “accusations” is ridiculous. Example: One of his accusers claims he asked her out when she was 18 and he was 30. So? Yet this supposedly is one of the proofs he’s a predator. Another thing that sort of bothers me with all this is that if he was a pedophile at age 30, what changed him? We’ve seen case after case of pedophiles that start young and never change. I’ve never seen a case where a pedophile just stopped on their own without coercion. So why aren’t there any accusations from when he was 40 or 50 or 60?

stanleybmanly's avatar

The chances are that he either outgrew the “habit” or switched to a more satisfying perversion—like bible thumpin right wing politics.

Yellowdog's avatar

In 1978 while he was District Attorney of the State— he raped a 13-year-old girl named Juanita Broadrick, After biting her lip in the rape, he walked away in shades and told her, ;You better put ice on that,: This young, vouyeristic State District Attorneysufferedno consequences and went on to become President in 1992

chyna's avatar

^Source?

Yellowdog's avatar

Actually the name is Broadrick.

Sorry. But if you never heard of her, I won’t insult you. Even the New York Times has investigated the case and believes her. But google the name Tons of material you’ve probably never been exposed to,

janbb's avatar

@Yellowdog So what are you saying, that because Clinton was a sexual predator, it’s ok to elect a known sexual predator to the Senate? That’s setting a fairly low moral bar, isn’t it? Or is your comment just a “nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah”? Doesn’t sound very Christian in either case.

Brian1946's avatar

Here’s an interview with Moore’s attorney.

Part of his attempt to defend Moore, includes a bigoted remark about one of the interviewers’ religion.

seawulf575's avatar

@janbb I’m not sure exactly what @Yellowdog was saying, but it might be that we had a rapist as a president previously and nobody ever says a word about it and, in fact, it is avoided in discussions altogether in the media and by the left. To go all out against Moore now is a bit hypocritical. My personal feeling is that there is a lot of stuff being blown out of proportion with some of these “accusations”. But if it were to come out that he actually was a child molester, I would want to treat him like any other child molester….drag him naked through the streets by his dingus for the whole world to see. But I’m not ready to convict him before there are charges against him and before any charges are actually confirmed. And asking an 18 year old out for a date when you are 30 is not a crime. Actually asking a 17 year old out really isn’t a crime either. The only ones out there that could be construed as crimes would be a 14 year old being groped or someone being raped by him. He claims to not know the rapist at all and the 14 year old has been elbow deep in campaigns for Democrats for the past 15 years. I would suspect that all this would have come out long ago if true, but again…I don’t know their proofs.

MrGrimm888's avatar

I haven’t heard of Moore being accused of being a child molester. Not quite. I guess if you consider anyone under 18 a child.
Any physical relationship a grown man has with a 14 year old girl is illegal, and immoral.

The fact that he asked an 18 year old out, is not illegal, but it shows a thought process. Combined with Moore behaving unacceptably toward young girls at a local mall, and it points to that thought process again.
If you look at the pictures of his wife, when she was the age of the 14 year old accuser, they look almost identical.
It becomes a pattern of Moore’s likely desired mate. Much like a serial killer having a “type” of victim, investigators can conclude that Moore likes his females in their mid-teens, and with a certain look.
This information adds credibility to the claims of the women accusing Moore.

So. It paints a picture of Moore.
The left/media didn’t make Moore hit on underage girls at that mall, or ask out that 18 year old, or sign that girl’s yearbook (if that’s authentic,) etc. The man is being judged for his behavior. His reputation was not manufactured. Sounds like local people saw him as a creepy guy, who shouldn’t be around underage girls, and now he has accusers. The timing could certainly be politically motivated, but that doesn’t change the alleged crimes…

LostInParadise's avatar

It makes it worse that Moore portrays himself as a God fearing moralistic evangelical.

seawulf575's avatar

@MrGrimm888 I understand that. I have had older guys asking out my daughters. But in the end, there really isn’t that much wrong with it. Especially when the daughter is 18, as one of the accusers says she was. There are a lot of guys that ask out younger women. Now, asking out a 14 year old is immoral in my book as well. Asking out a 17 year old is also weird in my view, but not illegal. Asking out a girl, but not taking them out, is not really a crime. But again, I’m not going to convict him on this accusation until it is proven. I have seen cases in my life where a 14 year old created a statutory rape charge which was ultimately proven to be false. I had a very good friend that started dating a girl when he was 20. She claimed to be 18 and looked it. He went to pick her up one night. She lived with her parents. The dad asked him if he knew she was only 13. He didn’t. He left without taking the girl out and never saw her again. The point is not that I’m saying the accuser is lying or that Moore is as pure as the driven snow…just that we don’t know all the facts.
To suggest that the girl at age 14 looked a lot like his wife looked at the same age is absolutely nothing. Most guys have a “type” they like. There are things that attract people together. Men and women both have “types” that attract them. So that really doesn’t prove a thing…just adds insinuation into the mix.

seawulf575's avatar

@LostInParadise Your statement implies that you have tried and convicted him and judged him on what you perceive as his opinion of himself. I will tell you that if he were in fact found to be guilty of sexually assaulting a 14 year old 40 years ago, I would consider his subsequent attitudes to be hypocritical. But right now, all we have is several characters accusing him of things that he totally denies. Who is right? We don’t know yet. But the media is pushing hard to portray insinuation, suggestion, and opinion as fact. And by your statement, it is working.

MrGrimm888's avatar

I fail to see how falsely accusing powerful politicians, is beneficial to the media. It’s highly likely that Moore indeed did what he was accused of. The harder the right pushes against the press, the more likely I am to believe whatever they are attempting to deflect attention from. Notice that our right minded jellies, went straight to their go to Clinton. Predictable, and sad…

seawulf575's avatar

@MrGrimm888 I don’t understand why the media is biased either, but it is a fact. Let’s look at two big things going on in politics today. The first is Judge Moore, a Republican. There are 5 accusers that suddenly appear at the 11th hour, some with accusations that aren’t even of wrongdoing. The media has gone wild with this. Meanwhile, at the same time, Sen. Robert Menendez, a Democrat, has been indicted on corruption charges stemming from bribery and selling political favors for personal gain. This is the first time a sitting senator has been indicted on charges like this in probably 20 years. It is big news, yet you hear nothing on it on any of the liberal news outlets. The media outlets cover the Moore stuff 40x more than Menendez. Why? Because of the huge bias in the news media. Everyone should be upset with this, regardless of your political leanings, because it shows those that are supposed to report the news are actually working to steer public opinion instead. If you have a better explanation for this lack of coverage, I’d love to hear it.

stanleybmanly's avatar

The better explanation is staring you in the face. Moore’s ordeal is a sex scandal. And the Moore camp would rejoice if the list of accusers were merely a piddling 5. But each time another woman steps up to drive another nail in Moore’s political coffin, the media does the job which earns them a living—dangle the gaudiest shiny thing in front of the public. Sex trumps corruption every time. The bias has nothing to do with the fact that Menendez is a Democrat. It’s about the fact that a corruption scandal requires a certain level of mental acuity to draw one’s attention. The media knows its audience. What kind of NEWS is it to ANYONE that a Senator can be bribed? But EVERYONE awaits the answer to the question “will Alabama send a known flagrant pedophile to the Senate?”

janbb's avatar

And Menendez is old news. His trial was just declared a mistrial because of a hung jury; it was covered quite widely in the metro “liberal” media I follow.

But I agree with @stanleybmanly – it’s sex that sells. Franken has certainly been garnering headlines.

stanleybmanly's avatar

Franken was just frat boy stupid. It’s difficult to reconcile a man with his mental horsepower succumbing to such juvenile horseshit in his middle 60s.

seawulf575's avatar

Yet even with Franken, here you have a case of documented wrongdoing and the media is paying it far less action than Moore. And Moore has nothing against him right now….not really. Some accusations from women, most of which haven’t really accused him of anything illegal. The one that did was a staunch player in Hillary’s campaign as well as supporting other Dem candidates. That doesn’t lend credibility to her accusations.

But the media isn’t really interested in running with facts, just innuendo. And congress isn’t much better. They are considering ejecting Moore if he is elected, yet are silent on Franken when there is solid evidence of him doing things on the level of what Moore is accused.

But @stanleybmanly I find it hypocritical that you want to burn Moore for things he is accused of that were less offensive than Franken, that happened when he was in his 30’s, but want to give Franken a pass with some simple name calling. Why isn’t there as much outrage on these pages when the proven pervert is a Democrat? Why is there such a drive to cut them slack? Is it okay to sexually molest women and children when you are a Dem/Lib, but not a conservative?

stanleybmanly's avatar

If you actually see no difference in the severity of Franken’s isolated stunt and the mounting accusations against Moore, there is little point in our discussing it. Franken admits to his indiscretion, which was clearly a prank. Moore, on the other hand dares not admit to the validity of any of the accusations confronting him. And I would refrain from tossing that word “hypocritical” around in discussions around bible clutching righteous Mr. Moore. These aren’t flaming Northern liberals leveling accusations against the judge, but God fearing, Trump lovin folks of his own ilk who, along with dozens of witnesses recount a history so sordid that no liberal take on the matter is required.

stanleybmanly's avatar

And you should note that in that Congress which “isn’t much better”, it is the “thinking” conservatives who understand the consequences of allowing Moore a seat in the Senate.

MrGrimm888's avatar

@seawulf575 . Moore was a polarizing figure before these allegations. He managed to stick out, even in the vile company of his fellow Republicans. His proclaimed religious strength and purity, add spice to the story.

Franken’s story has been covered just as much in the media I follow. Even Bill Maher has addressed it on his last two shows. Franken’s story is disappointing. It does seem to be an isolated incident, and isn’t indicative of a pattern of inappropriate/illegal behavior. I don’t see many correlations between the two stories.

As I mentioned before, the timing is suspicious. But it seems more like a card the dems were waiting to play, than a manufactured lie. I won’t bother discussing the ethics of the timing, because I see all politicians as deliberately morally deficient…

Again. Pointing out allegations, and/or crimes of dems doesn’t work for this audience. I’d be fine if all of DC was imprisoned. It doesn’t change anything about the Moore story in the slightest.

I haven’t heard you defending any of Bill Clinton’s allegations. I wager that he is guilty of every thing you’ve ever heard about him, in your mind. He might be. In my mind, Moore is likely to have done what he is alleged to have done too. I am admittedly biased. Moore is one of my least favorite types of people. His reaction to the allegations cements my opinions of him.

It’s hard for me to believe those on the right yelling “fake news” all the time, when they allowed Obama “birther,” Muslim and other ridiculous rumors/ideas to swirl in their media for 9+ years
Is it more likely that Obama is a Muslim, born in Kenya, with the goal of taking American’s guns, putting us in prison camps, and turning America into an Islamic caliphate, OR a man had inappropriate/illegal relationships with teenage girls 30 years ago in Alabama?

seawulf575's avatar

@stanleybmanly You ceased to amaze me long ago. Blind support regardless of behavior used to really surprise me, but no longer. You can continue to make excuses. But look at what you are saying. A guy forces himself on a woman during a “rehearsal”, then later gropes her while she is sleeping. And it is a prank. If that were an accuser of Moore, it would be an attempted rape…sexual assault at the least. And, of course, we won’t even talk about the stalking/harassment of another woman who dared to disagree with him. But carry on. It is people like you that blindly support and overlook criminal behavior by democratic candidates that are causing the Dems to collapse.

@MrGrimm888 I’m with you in the idea that politicians are all pretty much slime. But you, yourself, have stated it a number of times. Inappropriate/Illegal acts. The media is going after Moore with “5 accusers”, but the accusations, for the most part, aren’t illegal acts, even if they are true (and I’m not convinced of that). He asked younger women out when he was in his 30s. That happens all the time and no one thinks it is inappropriate. Yet you, yourself, have referred to it as that several times, just in your last response. You are buying into the same narrative the media is pushing. When a 30-something asks an 18 year old out, there is absolutely nothing illegal about it. Yet that is one of his “accusers”. He asked out several other girls aged 16 or 17 which I find gross, but again…asking someone out is not illegal.
The 16 year old even says she asked her parents and they wouldn’t let her go out with him.
So far, that is 4 of the 5 accusations. He didn’t harass any of these girls, just asked them out, by their own accusations. The 14 year old claims sexual assault, but is a very suspicious witness. Yet the media won’t go into the character of this claimant, just her claim. Meanwhile, on the Franken issue, you don’t see it covered anywhere near equitably on CNN, ABC, NBC, MSNBC….none of them. They might give it a few seconds of reporting and then move on to half an hour of trying to bash Moore. But it wasn’t an isolated instance. He tried forcing himself on the young lady during “rehearsal”, much to her disgust and despite her trying to avoid it. Then later he gropes her while she sleeps. And now there is a second accuser for Franken…a radio talk show host that was on the Maher show with Franken and she disagreed over something minor on air. He proceeded to harasser endlessly after the show, going so far as to call her several times at her home to continue berating her, days later. It only stopped when she threatened to call the cops on him. This isn’t an isolated incident. There are now two incidents of, as you would call it, inappropriate/illegal behavior. The correlation between the two stories, Franken and Moore, is how the media covers them. I stated that the media bias refuses to let them slam on Dems, but will blow anything out of proportion on a Republican. Both the media coverage of Menendez and Franken, when compared to Moore, bear this out.

MrGrimm888's avatar

^It’s actually 9 accusers of Moore now. From my fake news sources.

Anyways, yeah, I do find something inappropriate about a 30 something year old man trying to have sex with teenagers. Regardless of the gender. As a man in my late 30’s, I wouldn’t ever consider a sexual relationship with a teenage girl, EVER. 18, whatever, that’s just ridiculous. I can’t think of a single instance, where that shouldn’t at least be severely frowned upon. Moore showed repeated targeting of girls who are simply too young for him, by FAR. (I’m lecturing a republican about conservative issues?....)
So uh, yeah. Grown men shouldn’t try to fuck little girls. I don’t care what the law says. Your boy Moore has refuted ALL allegations/accusers…

You want Franken? Take him. But your boys Trump(16 accusers,) and Moore (9 now) have to go too. Franken will hang for 2. Fuck him.

Yes. I brought Trump into a thread that had nothing to do with him. Or did it? Throw them ALL in prison. I’ll gladly trade dems for the Republicans that would go down. It’s not about partisan politics. It’s about taking out the trash. And there is a fucking dumpster fire in DC…

stanleybmanly's avatar

@seawulf575 I’m sorry that I’m such a disappointment for you. Particularly since your obstinate take on the world NEVER fails to amaze me! If you cannot understand that mimicing a groping while POSING for a photo might be a prank, there’s not much more to be said on THAT subject. You cannot possibly be considered rational if you equate a single incidence of a man forcing a kiss on a woman to YEARS of SERIAL sexual assaults—forced rapes of teenaged girls by a PUBLIC PROSECUTOR. The man was notorious for cruising the mall (to quote the guard) “looking for teenage tail”. Franken is guilty of an indiscretion. Moore is accused of what amounts to a predatory career. And get this. He has NO memory of cruising the mall, and claims he would never date a girl without her parents’ permission. It isn’t me, the media, or the conservative Congress that is “out to get Moore” and giving Franken a pass. It is the egregious sensationalism of Moore’s alleged behavior that FORCES the media to concentrate on him, me to condemn him, and the CONSERVATIVE Congress to expel him.

seawulf575's avatar

^And again, you have equated asking out a teen as sexual assault, yet try to down play actual sexual assault because one player is a conservative and one is a liberal. And you completely ignore the harassment and stalking. I know…it doesn’t help your dialogue.
I have stated before and will state again…if Moore were actually guilty of some sexual crime, I would welcome the stiffest penalty possible for him. But right now, the media and people like you are convicting him of far more crimes than the accusers actually have, you are blowing the accusations out of proportion, and you have already tried and convicted him. So let me ask the tough question: Where does your actual moral compass point? Is it sexual assault? If so, why do you give Franken a pass. Is it harassment? If so, why do you give Franken a pass. Is it just conservative and liberal that makes the difference for you? If a conservative is accused of something they are automatically guilty and if a liberal is accused WITH PROOF, well, he’s just a little scamp! Is that closer to your rationale? that is called hypocrisy, my friend.

chyna's avatar

@seawulf575 Here is the article that accuses Moore of trying to rape a 16 year old. That is not “asking out a teenager”.
And Here is another 16 year old that accuses him of groping and raping her.

MrGrimm888's avatar

^Fake news!

stanleybmanly's avatar

@seawulf575 I’m not the one equating a date with sexual assault. YOU pretend that Moore is in trouble for merely attempting to date young girls. YOU are the one confusing forcible rape with dating. What these women have declared unanimously is that a “date” with Moore amounted to getting into his car and having your clothes torn off. Moore wasn’t “dating” anyone. The man went from slamming the car door straight to the “happy ending”

stanleybmanly's avatar

And even you must see that Franken’s plight is a joke compared to the ordeal confronting Moore. Franken is NOT accused of rape or even attempted rape. The judge on the other hand has “gotta walk that lonesome valley”. Nobody else (including Al Franken) is gonna walk it tor him.

MrGrimm888's avatar

As so often happens, this thread is becoming circular…

MrGrimm888's avatar

^No need.
Well. It happens a lot in Trump threads. Doesn’t surprise me here. At some point, we’ve kind of said our peace. After that, it turns into a repetition of our opinions articulated slightly differently. The allegations, facts, and innuendos are all on the table. Time is the only important variable now. We shall see how this all plays out.

I’m sure there will be more to add, as the world turns…

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