General Question

chyna's avatar

In your opinion, should there be some type of proof regarding all the sexual harassment charges?

Asked by chyna (41933points) November 21st, 2017 from iPhone

Not all of these charges are going to end up being true. Probably a majority will be, but for those that aren’t, lives and careers will be ruined.
An actor on a show called Entourage was blamed for sexual harassment and he took a lie detector test and passed. Should the woman who blamed him take one also? IMHO yes.
I am not talking about rape cases and for those that have been, please understand that I’m only talking about women or men who seem to be calling out every high powered person in Hollywood or politics. No one seems to be calling out the teenager who went on to become a factory worker for groping them at the drive in.
I have had my ass and boobs groped. (Many years ago.). I put the guys in their place, or got out of the situation and moved on.
I would never dream of calling them out now. Again, I’m not talking about rape.

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

20 Answers

funkdaddy's avatar

Up front, I don’t know. Kind of torn on it. It feels like it’s a product of the moment right now and you don’t necessarily want to stop that progress by requiring some additional process.

You also don’t want to condone some level of harassment, but at the same time I think we have to decide as a society if a clothed brush of the bottom 10 years ago is really newsworthy, regardless of who was involved.

For ladies, please understand, I’m not saying anything in particular is ok, but imagine if suddenly there were dozens of men coming forward reporting women for bumping them with their breasts. It would at least complicate your feelings, right?

That’s kind of where we’re at. Maybe it’s too far, maybe it’s the new normal, but I’m willing to let others who are more affected make that decision this time.

zenvelo's avatar

The problem with asking for “proof” is that it is usually one person’s word against another’s.

So one-off instances are problematic. But when a number of women all describe the same behavior, it becomes credible.

rojo's avatar

I agree, there is more implicit credibility when there are numbers and I do wonder what kind of proof could be offered.
I am also concerned that, if as you point out, some of these claims are proven to be false then that will be used to discredit those claims that are true. And that would be unfortunate.

josie's avatar

Certainly in the courtroom, there should be proof.

But I do not know how to regulate actions in the so called “court of public opinion”, or what to do about mob rule.

Tolerance of mob rule seems to come and go in waves in history.

It’s never good, it is dangerous, especially if it gets out of control, but it is clearly being tolerated in this time and place. Too bad for the innocent.

seawulf575's avatar

I would suggest that most of these cases are falling into the category of “I want to be famous”. If you look at most of the cases, they are from long, long ago. Many are from people that want to gain something from the publicity. Not that sexual harassment or sexual assault is okay, or taking advantage of those in a position subordinate to you is okay, but c’mon. If it was really as big a deal as it is being made these days, why wasn’t it brought up long ago? I have seen sexual harassment cases in a previous employment (no, I was not involved in the case, just at the same company). A woman made an accusation and all hell broke loose. The woman was protected by a variety of laws from further harassment or retaliation. The guy was dragged through the mud. So if some yippee felt (s)he was being sexually harassed or worse, sexually assaulted (molestation and rape laws have been around a long, long time), why is it 20+ years before it is brought out? And why is it brought out into newspapers/TV? Seems odd that someone that has protection of the law would wait when the event was so traumatic.

janbb's avatar

@seawulf575 You are not a woman and I would politely suggest that there is no glory coming to a woman who accuses a powerful man.

ragingloli's avatar

Absolutely. The men must prove their innocence.

canidmajor's avatar

No, @seawulf575, “most” of these cases are notfalling into the category of ’ I want to be famous.’ ”. Perhaps a few are, and those should be weeded out, but most of the women who come forward do so now because they are more likely to be believed now. Probably some tried to lodge complaints when these things first happened, and were threatened with losing their jobs and/or being discredited in their fields.
You have no idea. Most women are not so stupid as to invite the vilification they face unless they have a valid complaint.

SergeantQueen's avatar

During a sexual assault/harassment investigation, a woman (or a man) has to go through processes that suck. They may have to get a rape kit or other tests done, they have to tell their story multiple times to many people, reliving it. They have to possibly testify. Along with all this, they have to deal with people who doubt them and harass them because of this. They also get their life picked apart. It’s a terrible emotional process, and not many people falsify these kinds of accusations.
Some of these women, whether or not they are telling the truth, may possibly lose their careers or their careers will suffer. People are going to go digging in their past, and a harass them online.
A woman doesn’t accuse a man of sexual assault or harassment because the women wants power. A women who wants power wouldn’t want to be a victim.

To answer @chyna‘s question, It’s kind of hard to say yes or no. Sexual harassment like this tends to be a he said she said with no evidence. If there is, then obviously yes.

Hawaii_Jake's avatar

We have an opening in my office. I know one of the applicants in a close, professional relationship. She is well qualified. I know where she works now, and I know too much about her boss. He is abusive. He accosted me, and I will never meet with him alone without another person of my choosing present.

She is in anguish. I can hear it in her voice. She has told me how badly she wants this job, and I have strong suspicions I know why.

Her situation is a perfect example of the turmoil women go through when they are victims of sexual harassment. It’s almost impossible to report.

rockfan's avatar

Lie detector tests are notoriously unreliable.

JLeslie's avatar

So many women coming forward means there is some truth in my opinion. I agree probably one or two if the women are outright fans seekers, but I bet most of the women are telling the truth.

Here’s the thing, if it happened 30 plus years ago, and nothing recently, I don’t think those men should be called out. If they have changed with the times that’s enough for me.

The case of Moore going after a young teen is a different story, and as you said, rape is a different story.

Plus, I think Democrats saying “don’t bring up the past” when Bill Clinton comes up, is a very clever way to try to shut people up, but I call bullshit. The point is it’s hypocritical to be ok with Clinton and not with these other men being accused of similar things. The liberals are hypocrites and so are the republicans. Some poll came out that a bigger than you think amount of republicans don’t think a man’s morality regarding how they treat women has anything to do with their ability to do their job. Really? That’s not what they said when they were impeaching and crucifying Clinton.

We have proof of what Franken did, I don’t think he should quit. I don’t think Trump has to leave either because of what he said about women.

I do want this sort of thing to stop thought. Men can really be horrible. I think it’s much better now compared to 30–40 years ago though.

seawulf575's avatar

@janbb I would normally say you are right. Except in some cases such as an actress that is so-so and having a hard time getting her name in the news. Remember, any publicity is good publicity. Let’s not forget the plethora of women that came out against Bill Clinton. Many of them became quite famous and made lots of money just from the accusations. Speaking engagements, book deals…lots of money to be made. Some of the accusations might not be fakes….I agree entirely. But I have to question a lot of them. Also, before you play the feminist card, remember that there are a lot of sexual assault charges coming out from guys.

seawulf575's avatar

@canidmajor I have to ask: Why, if a woman didn’t feel she would be believed at the time the transgressions were occurring, would she believe that it would suddenly become more believable 10, 20, 40 years later? I probably sound belligerent but I’m really curious. It seems that the exact opposite would be true. If a woman was raped, trying to prove it within the first 24 hours would be relatively easy compared to coming out 10 years later when it becomes a he said/she said case. And maybe I’m spoiled because I work in a highly regulated industry that gets looked at with a microscope all the time, but as I said, I have seen what happens when a charge is made. The investigations are prompt and thorough and I have yet to see retaliation against a woman that brought the charges. Either the accuser or the accusee might end up in a different job (if no clear proof could be gained from the investigation) but the jobs are generally of equal or greater value than the current job and no further abuse is ever seen against the accuser.

seawulf575's avatar

@SergeantQueen I understand all that. And I hate to say it, but a lot of the processes you describe NEED to be done. And waiting a long time doesn’t make it any easier to prove your case. You might have to go through all the headache anyway, with a huge delay in time working against you. A person being accused of a crime is entitled to a fair hearing. Just because they are accused of something doesn’t mean they are guilty. They are entitled to respond to the accusations, they are entitled to be made aware of what the other person is claiming in detail (events, etc), and yes, the accuser may have to testify. And sure, there may be those that harass them online or in person. But my point is that waiting to make the claims only hurts the case, it doesn’t eliminate any of the bad stuff. I’m struggling with that why. If you watch your neighbor shoot your dog, do you call the cops right then or do you wait 10 years to make the accusation? Remember, that neighbor could have friends that could harass you, you might have to testify against him, you would have to relive the moment again and again. So why wait? I might understand not saying anything the first time someone does something that seems weird at work. But when it happens again and again, why not say something then? And if you finally leave that job, why not say something then? That person no longer has any power over you…you just left the job. Why wait until years go by before you say something?

canidmajor's avatar

@seawulf575: Your blind naïveté is staggering.

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie That was a very well thought out response. Bravo! I only had a couple points that I disagree with you on. First was with Moore. Some of his accusers claim he asked them out when they were teens and he was in his 30’s. One was an 18 year old at the time. No crime in any of that. Seems a little pervy to me, but no crime. However, if it was true that he sexually assaulted a teen (or any woman for that matter) I agree…fry him. With Bill Clinton, the media made a huge deal about the sexual exploits that played into the whole affair. Sex sells. But he was not impeached because of moral grounds. He was impeached for perjury and obstruction of justice….much the same sort of thing they are trying to pin on Trump these days.
But I loved your comment. And I agree that many men can be horrible. I don’t understand it. Trying to force yourself on a woman or worse, a girl, shows you to be rude, vulgar, possessing no self-control, no empathy, and only being interested in yourself. But I’m not sure women are much better when they get to positions of power. Look at Mariah Carey…she’s being sued for sexual harassment as well.

seawulf575's avatar

@canidmajor thank you for that brief and useless comment. It was a personal attack, but it lacked any real facts. Well done!

JLeslie's avatar

@seawulf575 The women believe they will be believed now, because now they know they are not the only one. Women stay silent because they either don’t think they will be believed, or try to put the incident behind them, or are afraid of losing their job, or don’t want to have to go through telling the details of the story, or don’t want to be asked “what they did that caused it to happen” when it doesn’t matter that they wore a short skirt, or whatever, that is not permission to be harassed or assaulted.

What women need to learn this go ‘round, is they are almost never the only one harassed by an idiot man. If they speak up, some of the others will start coming out of the wordwork.

Moore supposedly went after younger than 18 year olds. From what I understand one was a schoolgirl, still in high school. I don’t care if she was 18, she was in high school!

Let’s be clear, I think the harassment is awful, no excuses for these men, but back when it was common behavior for men to come on to women at work, or to say things to women that make them uncomfortable, if they don’t behave like that anymore, because times have changed, I give the men a little credit. A lot of media people are saying this is a changing point, that all of this coming out will teach men they can’t do this anymore, but I think we already have been through that point a good 20–30 years ago. Some men still do it, and nothing will change them except actually losing their jobs, or jail time.

Aster's avatar

Yes, there “should be“some kind of proof the best one being denial with no photographs or videos. A photo is a real tough “gotcha!”

Answer this question




to answer.

This question is in the General Section. Responses must be helpful and on-topic.

Your answer will be saved while you login or join.

Have a question? Ask Fluther!

What do you know more about?
Knowledge Networking @ Fluther