Where's the outrage against Canada not wanting illegal immigrants?

Yes of course it’s the Canadians with the blustering loud mouth denigrating the United States for exporting our killers and rapists to Canada. It’s the Canadians with the fool promising to terrorize all comers by snatching their kids and dispersing them hither and yon. The fact that you had to hunt for this story only bolsters your conclusion that the U.S. press and the left are about irrational unprovoked Trump hatred. The situations are perfectly analogous. Trump’s behavior has nothing to do with this or any of the other “liberal biases”.

Canada is Canada; they have their own citizens – and I am not one of them. They are not a part of the US.

I can be outraged at the US government because I am a US citizen and live here. Therefore it is my civic duty to be involved with my government’s actions and criticize them when necessary.

Frankly, if Canada wants to make decisions that I disagree with, tough shit for me. I have no say in their government.

@seawulf, your question is a classic case of deflection.

It’s also a case of apples and a puffed up malignant orange.

@stanleybmanly can I give you 50 more GA’s.

The reason the Left / Democrats want open borders is for Democratic votes. Canada has no need for illegal immigrants.

Demographically speaking, Democrats are winning in areas that have the highest Illegal Immigrant populations.

That is rapidly changing. And in fact recent immigrants are the only thing preventing the virtual population denuding of much of the scarlet heartland.

@Yellowdog What are you talking about? ?
They (those Democrats that are your personal enemy) are not issuing citizenship when the come across the border; that is classic dump Trump !

Do you really – really – really believe that ? ?

If you take California, ALL California votes, out of the picture—Trump wins the popular vote by about as much Hillary won the popular vote WITH California.

If you look at demographics, most illegal or unvetted immigrants are in areas that vote democrat, and most crime is in areas that vote democrat.

What blog are you getting all this crap from??

@Yellowdog :: I want more immigrants because I like cheap salads and my yard needs edging.

Actually, I worry that the white people aren’t making enough babies anymore. As the boomers get cancer “bigly” we need young healthy people working and paying taxes to cover social security and Medicare.

It appears the only way to get there is immigration.

Here is a idea. Maybe the Republicans should stop being so fucking racist. Get the immigrants voting for your side. Most immigrants are with Republicans on social issues. Stop the racism and California will go R.

I see far more racism on the democrat side.

Hillary campaigned in black churches one Sunday morning in my city, with a fake Black accent. This was the summer of Rage, 2016. She campaigned about cops killing innocent black lives. and that fake black accent I think some found offensive. Its pretty carpet baggish and most saw through it. Hillary doesn’t give a damn about black people except for votes. We now have lowest black unemployment in history and we didn’t need a democrat

Here we go with “Hillary did this and Hillary did that” !

Your words !

”If you take California, ALL California votes, out of the picture—Trump wins the popular vote by about as much Hillary won the popular vote WITH California.

If you look at demographics, most illegal or unvetted immigrants are in areas that vote democrat, and most crime is in areas that vote democrat”

What freaking blog are you betting your future on? ? ?

@Yellowdog . I do believe that Hillary just said what she thought people wanted to hear. I always found her to be very disingenuous.
However, I don’t see being a bad politician, and socially awkward, as a sign of racism.

I’m glad that the token black guy at Trump rallies doesn’t offend you, like Hillary.

It’s about time to mention the dems were the racists 50 years ago now… Just don’t hold the GOP accountable for anything.

So using a black accent is worse than separating children from their parents.

Do you actually believe the shit you spew?

@elbanditoroso how can the initial question be a deflection? Seems like “deflection” is becoming the new liberal term for “I don’t want to talk about it”.

@johnpowell separating children from their parents….like Obama did for years? Another case of outrage against Trump with crickets when the exact same thing was started by a Dem

Obama. Hillary. Obama. There. That’s all I need to say, apparently.

I think you will find Canada helps and spends more on refugees per capita than the US does.

@seawulf575 Once more, it was NOT the “the exact same thing started by a Dem”. To begin with, it was the fool and the fool alone who loudly announced to the world that he would convert the policy of separate facilities for adults and children to one of punitive terrorism with the goal of depriving children of their parents. He then ruthlessly and wrecklessly implemented his child terror strategy with deliberation and the guaranteed misplacement of thousands of kids. The policy was just another in the string of policy disasters defining your stumblebum idiot of a President.

Can I just say that because of this shit happening, the US is being compared to Nazi Germany by the rest of the world. And Yes, this is new because before Jeff Sessions directed them to take a zero tolerance and ignore the agreement in place that said kids cant be separated for longer than 92 hours or something like that… I can’t remember the details but it was called The Flores Agreement, families were kept together. Just so you know,, over here, it’s been compared to putting opponents heads on spikes as a warning in medieval times.

Only the American Left compares the U.S. to Nazi Germany. Because of our news media and entertainment industries (which have merged) are advocating the position of the American left, many overseas who are aficionados of American media have taken up the charge because they hear little else.

I don’t hear such charges from countries and people that really know or have experienced dictatorships or are threatened by dictatorial regimes.

Apparently most of you cannot actually address the question. To me, the left has screamed about how we shouldn’t have borders. Even now they are trying to do away with the organization that is supposed to enforce the immigration laws. Those on the right have said the same thing from day one…enforce our immigration laws. Stop trying to find ways around them. Now, Canada is saying “we will enforce our immigration laws. There are no easy ways around them.” but the left is silent about that. What is the difference?

It isn’t a question of ‘can’t address the question’ – it is that you are deliberately ignoring the fact that none of us live in Canada and none of us have any say in what they do. Nor can we vote in Canada to change their government.

I also respect their government and citizens enough to not push my American opinions on them.

What you’re doing, and its pretty obvious, is trying to draw some equivalency between what US policy has been and what Canadian policy is becoming, as some sort of an excuse to make the US less culpable for its dumbass policies. So you’re deflecting and indefensible US policy by saying “see – he’s doing it too”. That didn’t work in third grade to get you out of trouble for throwing rocks at the teacher, and it won’t work here either.

No, what I’m doing is pointing out the hypocrisy of all those that have called me a racist and a xenophobe for suggesting we should enforce our laws. Because all of those people are entirely silent now, or trying to tell me I am deflecting from my own question.

So not a question, just a soapbox. Good to know.

@seawulf575 But we have addressed the question and told you point blank that your question is bogus because you posit a false equivalency. Furthermore, you misrepresent and flat out lie about our positions on the matter with such silly statements as “the left has screamed about how we shouldn’t have borders.” I don’t object to a statement from Canada that “we will enforce our immigration laws.” And I could care less if Trump merely stated “I intend to enforce our nation’s immigration laws.” Are you telling me that this is ALL
he had to say on the matter? We’ve told you why your arguments don’t hold water. There is no hypocrisy in
telling you that Trump crossed the line, is an ENTIRELY different kettle of fish than Obama or Canada and we are NOT making it up. And to prove it, you can witness the courts consistently slapping his silly ass around to the great relief of thinking people everywhere. Why don’t you do yourself a favor and dump that right wing blog drivel which is so nakedly directed at simpletons and try to think for yourself.

@Yellowdog Well….. No. Not just the American Left… what ever that is. I’m sitting over here in Europe and there are plenty of folks here making comparisons with some of the stuff going on in the US with Nazi Germany… and who better to compare. We went though it.

They don’t want them and they lost 50,000 Syrian refugees. Good.

^@ScienceChick said she was in Europe. That’s a continent. All countries there are handling the Syrian refugee crisis differently. So. A snarky blanket statement with unverifiable numbers, well, it’s just that…

yeah…. I am not about to tell some of you pisspricks which European country I’m in either. Holy farck, the ignorance and bitchiness here just glows with some of you. I’m only staying for the popcorn and the few that have been good company. Holy arseholes.

@Yellowdog How do people with no legal status to live there vote in an election? Folks have to register to vote and show ID. Do they whip out their Russian passports or something?

Someone has voted in my name TWICE since 2009, Probably the same person.

I am the one with the picture I.D. and extensive other identification, and I am always the one denied and/or treated like the criminal. I wait for a couple of hours at a security desk until investigated or interrogated, and then prove my case and get to vote.

So yeah, illegals DO vote in America. No one will deny them. That’s racism or discrimination or whatever, and the poll workers don’t want to be on the six O’clock news with the local leftist advocates and politicians for denying someone their vote because of their race or immigration status. So they give them the benefit of the doubt at my expense.

Even though I HAVE gotten to vote both times, chances are they voted differently than who I voted for, so they cancelled my vote out with their illegal vote. They may have gotten to vote in their own name, also, or some other name.

Illegal voting is quite common here. I think some political advocates use certain communities, apartment blocks, etc etc this way. Or take a group home, halfway house, adult day care, etc this way. I remember the Independent Living Center here in Memphis once wrote ugly letters to a white female democrat politician, Carol Chumney. supposedly complaining about some political point—the letters were absolutely filthy and sexually perverted and had nothing to do with the political point.

No consequences came of it. But if a government worker can lead a group of mentally challenged adults to write filthy letters, they can register them to vote and tell them what or who to vote for.

@Yellowdog – you don’t know that it was an illegal who voted in your name. It could have been a WASP who was simply a fraudster.

You’re making a HUGE assumption to fit your negative view of the world.

Also, don’t sometimes people have the same name? Like, I’m sure there are many guys named Alex Jones, or Dale Smith. Maybe there are two Yellow Dogs in your district and they have to double check if they have crossed off the wrong one from the voter rolls. Wouldn’t it be funny if Yellow Dog’s real name was Gerry Mandering? That would be ironic. I hear all the time on the US news people complaining about Gerry Mandering messing up the election results.

My LAST name is Haedvhour. Well, close enough to that

If they can’t find a name of the person in line, they’ll pick one at random.

I don’t think you’ve ever worked at a polling station in the US, Haveawhore.

Havu anytime, Chicky babe.

My actual last name is Allardyce—I’ve probably given enough info on me on Fluther that anyone can identify me if they wish to kill me or whatever.

BTW are you THE Science Chick on the interwebs?

Ah… a proud Scottish name… now besmeared by the colonial kind. But then again, your ancestors could have just stolen the name because it sounded nice. What’s in a name, but that it would sound as ignorant as the words coming from them.

Well, I think it was a character in Treasure Island, and in a Dan Curtis movie and novel, Burnt Offerings. About a malevolent living house that killed its occupants in order to renew itself.

@ScienceChick . American conservatives, don’t care about right or wrong. You can bring up whatever dirt you like on the Republican party, and their tactics. It will not matter to their supporters. They will simply squeeze their eyes shut harder. Unless you want to make up something about Obama…

It’s interesting that Trump exemplifies modern conservatism, because his very existence is about ends justifying means. There is no ethical or moral compass, and life is about “what I can get away with.” The trouble in confronting a demagogue lies in the convincing of those not inclined to the intellectual consideration that ethics and morality matter. We all pay lip service to the concept, but Trump is blessed beyond measure in matters of “ethical flexibility”, and is only too eager to test the tolerance of the rest of us. The predictable reaction to the kid snatching episode shows him probing for those limits of which he hasn’t a clue.

You DO rwalize that the kid-snatching episode is decades old, and Trump was the first EVER to touch it with an executive order, don’t you?

Republicans and Democrats alike agree that congress s the only branch that can deal with the issue legally, and they find it easier to go on vacation.

I cannot understand why anyone is still insisting that this has anything to do with Trump, especially considering how the previous administration brushed it off so many times, And I cannot understand the sheer, deep, all-consuming HATE coming from the left against a president that was not their choice, or conservatives, who do win politically from time to time But more than the sheer hate and loathing, the mere delusion that they are the ones who are tolerant or humane, while exuding all that hate and vulgar remarks.

Session insisted on ZERO TOLERANCE !
You don’t understand @Yellowdog Trump is punishing people because they exist. Do you exist, maybe you are next?

It has EVERYTHING to do with Trump. He started the policy (yes, it had previously existed, but Trump started enforcement of it.) Then he claimed that only congress could fix it (another lie)and that he was powerless against this Obama era law.
America threw a fit, and then Trump made an EO, and fixed it. Again, contradictory to his own lies.
His motivation for separating the families was to deter immigration, and use the suffering of the children to get the dems to bend more at the negotiating table. He was trying to hold the kids hostage, to get funding for his wall. Which he foolishly claimed Mexico would pay for (another lie.)

The fact that there was NO plan in place to reunite the families, speaks volumes about the agenda of the administration. They were definitely testing their limits. Luckily, they had to stop. By now, they would have separated thousands more, and who knows what would have been next. They were starting to take the gloves off in their war on everything non white/Christian..

@Yellowdog It isn’t hatred of Trump. Those he has defrauded or maligned may have reasons to hate him but the majority just want him to go away and quickly. These people respect the office of presidency and to have a man like Trump in charge who is so unworthy of respect creates a kind of painful cognitive dissonance in the mind. Trump is doing damage to the institutions of the United States and he is tarnishing the image of the US overseas. Trump may be unaware of this, or perhaps he is aware, but as a man with no scruples he will not care. He is all me me me and mine mine mine. He is selfishness personified and the sooner he starts playing golf on a permanent basis down at Mar-a-Lago the better for all concerned.

@Yellowdog And I don’t understand the right’s constant equating criticism of the fool as hatred. It’s like witnessing a train wreck and the railroad then accusing anyone noticing the horrors of the wreck guilty of train hatred. The fact that Trump is an inveterate fk up has nothing to do with hatred. It is just an open and irrefutable fact. And your insistence that he he had nothing to do with the child snatching scandal is just plain ridiculous. Both Trump and Sessions announced PUBLICLY their intention to utilize housing measures to forcibly deprive children of their parents and then DELIBERATELY scattered those children as a method to terrorize would be immigrants. It isn’t hatred from the left which defines Trump as a bully and heartless fool.

This has been going on for decades. Obama refused to deal with it over twenty times. I saw it in a montage of quotes.

@stanleybmanly Watching a train wreck and having the railroad trying to blame witnesses is not quite the right example for how you on the left deal with President Trump. To put it in railroad terms, you watch a train traveling down the track, pretty as you please, and you are calling the engineer stupid and an inveterate fk up and all sorts of other things. You accuse him of working with the Bus lines. You accuse him of falsifying his timesheet (even though there is no proof of it). You attribute all sorts of behaviors to him and hold him accountable for those behaviors you created. Meanwhile, the train continues down the track, doing its job of getting its freight to the stops it is supposed to get to. You’re right…that isn’t hatred. It is something much, much worse.

^The problem with your example is that your train engineer has no experience whatsoever. You have a plumber in charge of your train. It’s not hatred to want someone knowing what they are doing when they are in charge of something that affects the lives and well being of others.

Trump, under the impression that the rail tracks are an unnecessary limitation on his movement, has instructed his crew to jump the tracks and take the locomotive out into the freedom of the open fields. He has now kicked his engineer and fireman out of the cab and is attempting to force the train into a right hand turn.

And there is nothing “pretty” about Trump’s trip down the track. Ask the kids, the Muslims, the entire DOJ, anyone molested by a pervert or anyone who can read or write.

Yet all the labor statistics and financial reports show a drastically different reality than what you are espousing. Several in the DOJ, FBI and even the CIA have committed crimes, that is true, and a few have even been fired or demoted, but are unlikely to face prison time. That has nothing to do with Trump, however.

It’s okay to be a Bozo as a President:

If the Dow Jones increases

If unemployment decreases

Ask the Veterans when they decrease the benefits

Ask the people without healthcare (oh they wont be around)

If the rest of the free world think Bozo should be in an asylum

And Putin can’t wait to get more photos of Bozo in compromising positions at their next “one on one” with no USA translators

Is that what you mean @Yellowdog ?

@Tropical_Willie – it’s useless. He drank the Kool-aid and as a result, Trump can do now wrong. it’s a waste of time to try. There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Bozos are the new dictators.
If Bozo doesn’t like a branch of government he’ll just fire them all.

I know a lot of you are still around, but you’re losing. The majority no longer takes your position

^Not sure where you are hearing that…

Trump has great support numbers from his base (no change from the sheep.) So. That’s like 20–33% of eligible voters….......

The majority of the country, and the world, do not support Trump, or his agenda. And that’s sugar coating it….

No. Its not.

Bahahaha. The majority?

Bahahaha

I feel bad for you at this point. Where in the world are you getting your stats from?

@stache…so what experience did Obama have? Bush II? Clinton? Any president? The only difference between the past presidents and this one is that their experience was all politics and his is business. Nothing says you have to be a politician. And I suspect that is what is rankling everyone. But from a leadership role, which job would have more of the traits you are looking for? A businessman is used to setting the vision for a company and working to make that company profitable. A politician isn’t….not at the basic level. They work within a framework that is set for them. A businessman is used to negotiating with others to get the best deal he can for his company. A politician is used to negotiating with others as well, but usually from a manipulation aspect. If there is a problem, the businessman looks for solutions. As far as I can tell, when there is a problem politicians kick the can down the road. The examples go on and on. But in the end, you are looking for a leader. And like him or not, Trump is a leader. He is doing good things for the country.

@flutherother interesting. How, exactly, is Trump attempting to go outside the bounds of the rails? He recognizes that he as limitations to his power. He might use that power in ways you disagree with, but does he really violate it? No…the one that jumped the tracks and started taking the path off the rails was Obama. Repeated violations of his constitutional authority. Trump? Not one so far. And you can bet there is a microscope on his every decision. If he violates the Constitution you will hear a cry from on high for his impeachment.

@seawulf575
deflect deflect deflect

We were talking about Bozos and the world, not Trump and his opinion about how perfect he is.

@Tropical_Willie Understood…you just wanted a conversation about hate. Got it.

@seawulf575 . I can’t provide a link, but there was a thread about “can you run a country, like a business?” The consensus was a resounding “no.” Especially in regards to how Trump ran his businesses. I agree that at first, the prospect seems like a decent idea. But when you look at it close, it’s a terrible idea.
As far as Trump “recognizing” his limitations of power, what could you mean? He’s constantly having courts overturn him. At this moment, he is trying to get emissions standards rolled back. California is fighting him on it, and will likely win. It’s really one instance in a long line of things he’s trying to push through to help the wealthy elite and/or racists, and the states are constantly checking him. He DOESN’T KNOW WHAT HE’S DOING. And he doesn’t listen to those who do…

I’m confused about people’s use of the English language. Since when does ‘I disapprove of the job you are doing.’ equate to ‘I hate you.’ ? Is this a new American slang term or something?

@seawulf575 By your own definition Trump constantly violates the laws. Every time a court overturns one of his edicts it is in effect a notification that he has acted illegally. “Trump? Not one so far”. Get real.

@ScienceChick I think that started about the time “I disapprove of the job you are doing” equated to “I’m a racist pig”. But seriously…it isn’t “I disapprove of the job you are doing”. Be honest…it’s closer to “He’s a tool, he’s in Putin’s pocket, he hates women, he is a criminal, he’s a nazi, he’s trying to start a dictatorship, His base is all low-educated redneck morons.” I could go on, but I’ll wager if you go back and look at any thread about Trump, even this one, you will find many of these in there. Yet the part that truly amazes me is that if you take out the personal opinion ones…he’s a tool for example…there is not one shred of evidence anywhere that any of the rest is true. Yet you on the left refuse to actually try matching your claims with facts. So in reality…that equates to hate. When you can find nothing good to say about someone, when you are so obsessed with your personal feelings about him that you can’t deal with facts…that is hatred.

@stanleybmanly The challenge is out there. You claim he constantly violates the law. I made a similar claim about Obama and backed it up with facts. Where are your facts? All you really have is hatred and TDS. You have no crimes committed while Trump was president, and probably not many from before that. You don’t believe for one second that if there was a crime the left and their propaganda wing wouldn’t be all over it? They are even trying to make up crimes and can’t do it. For it to be a crime, you need facts backing it up.

@seawulf575 He told Teresa May to sue the EU. That’s not just informed. That’s ridiculous. He also told her ‘Don’t walk away.’ Which was more sensible, but also totally obvious. So, am I allowed to hold him accountable for ANYTHING?

@seawulf575 The LEFT isn’t making up anything! The COURTS have told the fool that snatching the kids is ILLEGAL. A muslim band is ILLEGAL. Banning gays from the military is ILLEGAL. And these are NOT examples from some conspiracy obsessed idiot blog page. These are ACTUAL violations of the Constitution with judicial rulings to back them up.

@stanleybmanly I’m afraid that the ‘Muslim Ban’ was held up by courts. The phrasing of the ruling was very very strange, though. https://www.vox.com/2018/6/26/17492410/travel-muslim-ban-supreme-court-ruling It basically said that the act was seen as within the power of the president. It also dismissed any anti muslim comments ever made by the president during his campaigning, saying that it didn’t count as the Presidents opinion, because he was campaigning. Again, he doesn’t have to be held accountable and the courts seem to agree.

@MrGrimm888 there are similarities between running the country and running a company. Especially when it gets to the personality of the leaders. And that was what I was pointing out.

@seawulf575 You’re nearly as bad as the fool himself. The dissonance between his fkups and your interpretation of them is stupefying. The man behaves irrationally, but it goes unnoticed (or ignored) by you. Instead you would prefer to gauge the reaction to his irrationality as baseless hatred.

ScienceChick. You’re talking about the second Muslim ban. The first was so openly a denial of due process that even the court was embarrassed and slapped the fool accordingly.

@stanleybmanly the left is, indeed, making up things. The separating of children from their parents is an offshoot of the change in policy to treat illegal aliens as criminals instead of as a civil suit. We don’t incarcerate children with their parents…ever. So the children had to go into protective custody. And no one ever said that policy was illegal. All that happened was that a judge ruled the children should be reunited with their parents. He felt the policy was a poor attempt at trying to fix a situation the government has made worse through the years. But the policy has actually been available and has been used for decades. Bush and Obama both used it. So his use of a policy that already existed isn’t a crime. So yes…the left did make that one up. Tell you what…you want me to think differently? Then cite me the law that was broken. I did that when I cited the issues with Obama. Granted, you didn’t see that as good enough since you didn’t want to actually look them up, but I’m more open minded than you are. You cite the laws and I will gladly go look them up to verify they pertain.

@stanleybmanly No, the irrationality is actually on the part of the left. All you do is rant and rave about all the crimes that were committed and how racist everyone is and how Trump is a Nazi and dozens of other things, but there is very little fact backing it up. It is irrational fear. Is Trump trying to undo the damage done to this country by Obama’s liberal policies? Absolutely. Do you see that a challenging? Probably. Does it make him irrational? Not at all. He has a different viewpoint of what is good for the country than you do and is pursuing it. And if you stop hating long enough to look around, you will see that good is being done on many fronts, for many people.

@stanlybmanly: Muslim bands are NOT illegal—havn’t you heard of Taqwacore?

@seawulf575 . Like I said, at first, having a business man as POTUS sounds appealing…

Rational fear.

Losing health care for tens of millions of Americans.

Losing long standing allies, at a time when Russia, and China are in expansion mode.

Getting negative effects from a trade war.

Tampering in our democratic process, the core of our nation.

A POTUS who might wake up one morning, and start a war, to deflect from his own investigation.

A POTUS under investigation for working with our most powerful enemy. Yes. Lots of indictmentsso far in the “witch hunt,” that our POTUS claims had ZERO witches.

Families being torn apart. Kids being drugged, so they can be imprisoned.

The near complete destruction of the EPA.

Going back on our word with the Iran deal.

Fanning the flames in the Middle East, by making a needless move of the US embassy to a controversial location.

A POTUS that supports two of the world’s worst leaders.

A POTUS that has, and will continue to hurt people.

A SCOTUS that will be essentially rigged, by 2020.

I could go on, and on, and on….

Irrational fear.
This is the tool of the right sir. I NEVER heard conservativesworrying about MS-13, or trade inequalities that “are a matter of national security,” until Trump told them to be worried about them… PERIOD.
Liberals, are still fighting for the same fights of at least 20 years ago. Environment, healthcare, civil rights, women’s rights, human rights etc. are unwavering concerns of the left.
Other than abortion, and gay marriage, conservatives hitch their wagon to whatever they’ve been fed by the right.

If putting up a piece of outdated technology, like a wall,
to protect you from people you know nothing about (except what you’re told,)doesn’t point to irrational fear, I don’t know what does…

If banning billions of people who you know nothing about (except what you’re told) from even visiting the country, doesn’t point to irrational fear, I don’t know what does.

If thinking Obama was going to “take our guns,” put us I’m prison camps, and turn the country Islamic isn’t irrational fear, ok…

Oh. And I’ll repeat @seawul575 . Take your crimes of Obama list down to the local police. If your sources are correct, we should see a trial soon…

@MrGrimm888 I went through your list and what I see is a lot of examples of liberal TDS. Your “rational fears” are not all that rational. You are doing what I have mentioned…building up stories to give them the credibility of fact and then acting on them. I could give you a list if you like…addressing each and every one of your statements, but it really would do no good.
You have imbibed way too much of the kool-aid. The truly scary part is that you take actual things to worry about and raise them to the level of irrational. MS-13 is nothing to worry about?!?! They brutally kill people, hacking off limbs and heads after they have brutalized them first. Putting up a wall to protect you from people you know nothing about is irrational? Ever consider the economic damage done by illegals in this country every year? Ever consider all the deaths they cause? How about all the drugs that are pouring across a border that the liberals want to erase? I think you need to step back and re-evaluate a little, my friend.

@seawulf575 So, you a card carrying member or just a fan?

@seawulf575 . Any damage, or even positive effects of illegal immigrants, is not quantifiable. There is no accurate count, of how many there are, or their contributions. To assume that it is negative, is to make a decision based upon NO facts. I know that’s important to you…

Drugs pouring over the border.
The wall will NOT effect that. NOT AT ALL…. The cartels have tunnels, with trains. They have submarines. They have planes. They can pay a guy $1,000 to swim around the border, dragging a container of coke. They have drones. They have an unlimited budget…

MS-13.
Most of the crime, and violence committed by them, is against other gangs, or perceived rivals. Are they bad? Yes. Are they “pouring” over the border? No way to verify that. I deem it unrealistic. What I do know, is that MS-13 is a power in prisons, and in the most impoverished neighborhoods. If you think you will solve crime, by stopping illegal immigration, you are sorely mistaken. ALL gangs, are a direct result of poverty, and lack of law enforcement.
And again, I will say that you, and your conservative counterparts, YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. You are simply shaking in fear, from what you have been told.
When I was a LEO, I wasn’t worried about MS-13. In large part, because they aren’t an issue in civilian populations. Not exactly. Many Latino gangs pay homage to MS-13, but the vast majority of Latino gangs are not MS-13…

As far as building up stories, NO. There is no way to rationalize separating kids from their parents. No way to make it OK, to take health care away from tens of millions of people. No way to repair our environment, once the wealthy destroy it. No way to undo nuclear war. No way to fix the Middle East. No way to repair Trump’s reputation with the rest of the world. No way to undo the trauma that the children endured by being separated from their families. HONESTLY. Honestly. How would you take it, if you were taken from your parent(s) in a foreign country? It would have been cataclysmic, for me, as a child.
No way to fix the election that was rigged.
No way to undo the SCOTUS appointment, that was STOLEN from Obama, and the probably 2 that were stolen from Hillary.
RATIONAL fear…

Again, I could go on, and on, and on. And this is Friday. Trump could do lots of damage, in a short time…. Hopefully, he can reunite those kids with their families in a short time, as he was ORDERED to do…

If this was two years ago, I’d ask YOU to reevaluate your position. But people like you have taught me that there is a portion of our country that is beyond help. Now, in the near future, you can watch your grandchildren suffer for YOUR actions.
Congratulations…

@MrGrimm888 unfortunately for your argument, they have already done the studies and found that a large percentage of immigrant homes, legal and illegal, are getting some sort of public assistance. A much higher percentage that natural born citizens. That is an economic drain on society. They have quantified the impact.
As for drugs pouring across the border, it won’t stop all, that is for sure. Probably not even most. But it will stop some. The design of wall that is desired with descend 6’ into the ground to help prevent tunneling under. I still would opt for the moat, but that hasn’t been suggested yet. And any blockage of drugs would be a help.
MS13…you claimed any fear of them is irrational. I pointed out how brutally they deal with people. Apparently you are okay with that. Got it. Go ahead and defend them. Not to mention, I didn’t suggest a wall would stop them…you are adding that in now.
As for building up stories…yes, that is exactly what you are doing. Separating kids from their parents….Obama and Bush II both did it. You were silent on that and, in fact, have argued with me on that. So you are building up a story just to blame Trump. Taking healthcare away from tens of millions of people…where is your proof? I need to see the citations on that. Facts…not just fearmongering articles from leftie websites. Get something from the government.
It also amazes me how so many of you on the left have argued that ACA was a great thing and did no harm. It caused coverage to go down, availability of doctors to go down, healthcare insurance premiums AND co-pays to go up…it cause many, many people to face economic hardship. But hey…at least it covers illegals, right?
You make broadbrush statements…No way to repair our environment once the wealthy destroy it… but what is the damage being done? Again…not just rhetoric. Facts. Every time you spout rhetoric and do so in a Chicken Little way without any actual facts to back it up…you are voicing irrational fears.
No way to undo the trauma of children separated from their parents…again…an opinion. First off, who is to say these are their parents? Could we be saving children that are victims of human trafficking? Don’t know. But you ask a very interesting question…one you really shouldn’t have asked. How would I react if I were pulled from my parents in a foreign country? Let’s step back a bit and evaluate. My parents would not have tried smuggling me and themselves into a foreign country. They would have sought legal immigration if that is what they wanted. That is the part that the left fully falls down on. What part of obey the law is so hard for you to accept? What part of entering the country illegally is so difficult for you to accept? Why should we allow anyone who wants to enter our country? No other country in the world has that attitude. Not even Canada. They do exactly what the right suggests we do in this country…enforce our laws. That brings us back to the entire topic of this thread. Why is it so wrong to want to enforce our immigration laws? Why isn’t there any outrage against Canada (or any other country for that matter) for enforcing theirs? Tell you what…try being an illegal immigrant in Mexico…go the other way across the border. See how that works for you.
No way to undo the SCOTUS appointments: so you feel it was wrong to try blocking an Obama nominee in the last few months of his term in office? So you would also be against the Dems trying to block an Trump nominee in the last few months before the midterms? Or is it just that you are that biased that you really don’t want fairness? Here’s the key…Obama was at the end of his term. It has become custom to not fill a SCOTUS nomination under those criteria. They (congress) have adopted that policy. Dems and Repubs have used it. So it wasn’t STOLEN…it was not filled using the normal policies. As for two STOLEN from Hillary? She LOST!!!! She expected to steal the election and got beat. Face it…it is a fact. That statement is another in the long line of irrational statements you have made.
As for asking me to reevaluate my position, I cannot go back in history and do that. But if I could, knowing then what I know now, I would have been MORE of a Trump fan. The economy is doing great, we are trying to change many of the long term issues that have plagued our nation for decades, and we have stopped going down that dark path to socialism. two years ago, all I could say about Trump was that he was not a DC insider and he was taking the MSM to task for being extremely biased. I even said I wasn’t sure how good a president he would be. But he has exceeded my expectations. One of the things he is trying to do that is extremely vital to our nation is that he is trying to force Congress to do their jobs. The sad part is that the MSM and the left are trying to keep him from doing that. Please explain how that is rational?

This is another one of your questions based on false equivalencies. Your comparison assumes the laws, and more importantly the methods of enforcing those laws to be the same in both countries. The same holds with your dragging up Obama’s record as proof that accusations against Trump are mere fabrication. At the same time you undercut your own argument with claims that Obama failed to enforce our laws while Trump is taking the opposite tack. So which is it? Are the left, the press, the courts all hypocrites for punishing Trump and sparing Obama. Or are they hypocrites for punishing Trump’s attempts at enforcement while failing to criticize Obama’s failure to do likewise. The thing I find most fascinating in your hopeless defense of the fool is the truly irrational position that Trump’s critics must fabricate and distort the truth to arrive at the conclusion that he is a piss poor President as well as a vile and repulsive human being. When the man’s own Secretary of State, the country’s chief officer entrusted with diplomacy and tact, erupts with the pronouncement that his boss is a “fkn moron”, (and no one even bothers to dispute the accusation), the left can hardly be held accountable.

@stanleybmanly you got me. When you rewrite what I said, changing the meaning, it makes no sense. But if you actually dealt with reading comprehension sometime in your past and certainly in the present, your discussions would be much more useful. It always amazes me that if I mention Obama you immediately think I’m using that as some sort of justification for Trump. I’m not. I’m usually using it as a way to show that you on the left get all upset about something Trump is doing when you ignored it when Obama did it. It’s called hypocrisy. it is one of the signs of irrationality. Are the left, the press and the courts hypocrites for punishing Trump and sparing Obama? Absolutely. Are they hypocrites for attempting to punish Trump for trying to enforce the law while ignoring Obama when he broke it or did exactly what Trump did? Absolutely. It’s called liberal bias. If you notice, most of my comments go back to equality. If the Media had dealt with the news instead of pushing agenda for the past 30 years, we wouldn’t have nearly the problems we do today. If the courts dealt with law instead of ideology, we wouldn’t have nearly the problems we do today. I don’t ask for special treatment for Trump…I ask for equal treatment for all.
You start off with the false equivalency statement. It doesn’t matter how other countries enforce their laws. Go to Mexico as an illegal alien and it is an automatic 2 years in prison. 2nd offense is 10 years. Yet the left wants us to let everyone into our nation regardless of the laws. They want to set up Sanctuary Cities in direct violation of federal law. They are fighting to protect those that enter this country illegally and are battling to prevent any measures that might stop the flow of illegals. In other words, the left doesn’t want us to have borders. Now…if you can tell me how that makes any sense at all, I’d be amazed. So I have to ask you on the left…is it just the USA you want to destroy? You don’t want us to have borders therefore you don’t really want us to be a nation. You want us to be an area where people can come and go whenever they like, taking what they want whenever they want. That isn’t a nation. So you aren’t upset about Canada enforcing their laws, Mexico, Cuba, France, England, Italy, China, Russia or any of the other 188 nations in the world enforcing their immigration laws, but you battle against the USA enforcing them. Irrational? Either that or treasonous.

Well let’s test my reading comprehension, the “rewriting” of what you say, and which of us is making sense. Let’s begin with: “Go to Mexico as an illegal alien and it is an automatic 2 years in prison”. THAT one requires no rewriting. But it just stands there as glaring proof of my argument about false equivalency, this time it’s worse, because you are stating that Mexico ENFORCES its immigration laws and we ignore our own, a claim that is so transparently ridiculous that even you should understand it. For if that 2 year prison term were indeed automatic, our own borders would be dull forgotten places. Those obscure would be blog crimes that sensible people somehow ignored are not proof of some gigantic conspiracy between the left, the nation’s civil servants, the judiciary and the press. The suspicious arrow pointing toward the truth of the matter is open to you once you ask yourself when and WHERE you yourself came upon these “revelations”. More false equivalencies— Opposition to child snatching and resistance to due process violations are rquivalent to an open declaration for border elimination. THAT is not only an invalid but IRRATIONAL conclusion. The number of people advocating elimination of the country’s borders is probably a great deal lower than the tally of poor fools taking that blog nonsense seriously.

@stanleybmanly You really need to do a little research before you comment on things. In Mexico, illegal immigration is indeed an automatic 2 year prison sentence. However, since they were getting so many people that were trying to get to the US, they changed their rules to state that if you were passing through, you could do that for a fee. But that isn’t illegal immigration to Mexico. That is passing through. And that is how they deal with it. But if you are illegally immigrating to Mexico, and you get caught, you will get prison time. But what am I thinking? You don’t do research. You have your opinion…the opinion someone has given you…and you are all set. Why actually ask questions that make that fantasy land fade away? Go back to sleep young man.

Not so fast. So you contend that Mexico enforced the “automatic” 2 year prison sentence on all migrants prior to enacting fees? Do you contend that all migrants currently passing through Mexico without
paying fees are locked up for an “automatic” 2 years? And what about your allegation that resistance to Trump’s methods is somehow a campaign to eliminate borders.? And as for research, what’s the point if all but knucklehead blog bites is left wing distorted?

“No Border! No Wall! Sanctuary for ALL!” That chant, second only to “Hands Up Don’t Shoot” are what they’re chanting.

“No Border No Wall” says a lot in a riot or demonstration setting.

Okay, I see where this going Canada pays for the “Mexico Wall” (Trump is going to charge them for his company building it) J.K.

@Yellowdog . No wall, and sanctuary for all, I support. Never heard anyone say “no borders.” Never in all my conversations with liberals. Nor have I heard/read of it ANYWHERE…

Keep in mind that “the wall” is a ridiculous, long ago obsolete technology, that will have an extraordinary cost, and be placed in a largely uninhabitable desert tundra…

@seawulf575 . Feel free to spew ignorance. I have stated my positions, and am very comfortable with them versus yours…

Make sure to get Obama’s “list of crimes into your local police.” If you are correct, Obama should be in cuffs soon…. Call me out, all you want. Until I see Obama on trial for YOUR list, I will consider it BULLSHIT.

I hear Trump makes a badass bullshit sandwich. He sells them like hot cakes, and his sheep can’t get enough… Enjoy one, while we await Obama’s trial! Hillary will be in jail soon too, according to Trump right.“Lock her up!” Ppfffttt….. Idiots…..

@MrGrimm888 Feel free to defend Obama all you want. I notice you don’t actually address the list I have given, nor do you deny he did those things. He was a lawless president. I understand that as a liberal you cannot admit it…he’s your hero. His crimes were violations of his oath of office and the separation of power of our government. He is no longer in power so he cannot be impeached as he should have been. But he did violate the Constitution. It is a fact. And the corrupt Dems supported it. That, too, is a fact. And fools such as yourself are still defending it, though not directly…just through ignorance.
I understand that as a liberal you cannot admit truth if it challenges the liberal agenda. But you have supported rights for illegal aliens. You have voiced support for DACA. You have spoken out against the wall without actually suggesting anything in its place. All those are efforts to eliminate our borders. If you aren’t going to stop the influx of illegal aliens and, in fact, try to support them, you are against borders. Now you know you only have to look in the mirror to see a liberal that is supporting “no borders”.

Obama was a lawyer, and specialized in the Constitution. I am going to take a BIG leap here, and assume he’s right, and you’re wrong….

I already made suggestions about the alternative to the wall. To YOU wulf.

If you can’t see that no wall, doesn’t equal no borders, that’s not my problem….

As I said, I’ve stated my positions, and feel very comfortable with my arguments over yours. But do with your time what you will sir. Let me know when you drop off your Obama crimes list, to the police. Until then, I will assume that your list is fake news…

Wait, what? When Obama was your president, wasn’t both of your houses run by Republicans who could easily have impeached him, if there had been a case for it? The more I read these exchanges between Americans here, the more I’m totally confused as to whether they’ve really been living in the same country at the same time. I mean, opinions are one thing, but you can’t have your own facts.

You will never convince him that he can’t have his own facts, though they certainly don’t originate with him.

@ScienceChick we have been over this again and again. It would take a simple majority in the House for the impeachment, but it would require a ⅔ majority in the Senate to convict. Getting the House would have been easy. Getting the Senate would not. And if you don’t get the Senate, it’s all a waste of time. I give you Bill Clinton as the example. He beat the conviction by only a couple votes, but almost convicted doesn’t mean anything. He stayed in office even though he was impeached by the House. Obama most definitely violated the Constitution on a number of issues, but with the Dems backing him, he could have killed someone and stayed in office.
An @stanleybmanly, you FINALLY agreed with me that Obama violated the Constitution. Don’t act like you disagree. You had nowhere else to go but with the facts so you reluctantly agreed. Granted you tried downplaying it afterward, but you did agree. So carry on, trooper. Don’t try telling me about having my own facts.

Once again, following your defintion of “violated the Constitution”, EVERY President in your lifetime is guilty. And once again, you’re a fool to call that blog nonsense “facts”. I only agreed with the question of “what do you propose we do about it?” A question for which you apparently have no answer.

And once again…I gave you the list, narrowed it down to just a few and asked you to refute any of them. You admitted that he had, indeed, violated the Constitution. And these weren’t vague errors…they were purposeful. They were direct violations without having to make a stretch. I also challenged you to name one time Trump has violated the Constitution and you dodged that one as well. We can keep repeating this conversation, but you already lost it. Facts are facts and liberals don’t do well with facts.

I haven’t dodged anything. Instead I threw your own flawed logic back in your face with the statement that every reversal of Trump policies rendered by the courts is proof of his violation of the law. And I emphasize again that unlike your bogus fantasy list, the accusations of Trump’s illegalities have court decisions stating EXACTLY that.

Trump neither knows nor understands the most basic laws of his own country and the kid snatching incident perfectly illustrates the clueless nature of the idiot. You want an example of Trump directly violating the Constitution? The judge setting the deadline for reunification of children with their parents sternly admonished Trump with the statement that his treatment of those kids doesn’t meet the due process requirements for property or livestock, let alone children. The fool was in flagrant violation of both the 5th and 14 amendments, and the judge told him exactly that. But worse than the legal implications in Trump’s behavior is the sheer failure of basic decency one might expect from a President of the United States. The man has the moral integrity of a septic tank.

And instead of complaining that liberals support rights for illegal aliens, you should keep in mind that the Constitution GUARANTEES rights to ANYONE situated within the jurisdiction of the United States.

Uh, Trump didn’t start the ‘kid snatching’ incident.

It had been going on for twenty years when he took office. But I believe he signed an executive order eliminating the practice. We don’t send kids to prison with their parents. They are put in the foster care system.

Saying it over and over and over doesn’t make it true.

@stanleybmanly and while you liberals are supporting the rights of illegals, you should keep in mind that THEY BROKE THE LAW TO BE HERE. The Constitution does not allow people to break the law.

The Constitution also does not allow the government to label people criminals without proving it. Whether they broke the law or not, they are entitled to plead their case the minute a toe touches U S soil.

What if they don’t show up for the hearing?

Oh, wait! They DON’T!

lets apply this to everything. Caught in the act of arson? rape? shoplifting?
Law enforcement should just take their word that they are who they say they are, and will show up for trial in 3–10 months so that we can incarcerate them when proven guilty.

That’s another right wing dummy mischaracterization, that these are in the main hardened criminals and gangsters.

@Yellowdog Where is that comin’ from Sarah Elizabeth Huckabee Sanders or some other “Fifth Grade Graduate” ? ? ?

They are incarcerated for coming over the border illegally. Always been. Sorry, but we don’t change everything simply because you don’t like it.

I don’t like the fact that I can’t just go ‘round killing everybody. But no one changes the law for me. If they lock me up, I don’t get due process until the trial. If I’m innocent (until proven guilty) then why am I put in jail until the trial?

While we’re at it, let me remind you 2 that crossing the border illegally is a misdemeanor offense. It is considered a crime on the order of jaywalking or public inebriation.

^Correct.

@Yellowdog . “I don’t like the fact that I can’t just go ‘round killing everybody. But no one changes the law for me.”
What the blue hell are you talking about? I’m sure I’m missing something…

@MrGrimm888 I think that is called taking the argument into the absurd. I think there is a Latin term for it. He doesn’t understand that keeping everyone in prison just isn’t an option because they aren’t dangerous criminals. He, on the other hand, expresses a desire to go around shooting people and perhaps should be lock up.

@stanleybmanly—Haven’t been totally following this conversation but wanted to jump in just this one time to mention how Sessions criminalized immigration violations. Because there’s no better way drum up support for new, signficantly escalated policies than to first fervently pretend that it’s supposed to have been that way the whole time, if only those “lawless lefties” hadn’t been getting in the way.

@ScienceChick . I’m under the impression that @Yellowdog , is a far better person than his political leanings suggest… Just saying…

@MrGrimm888 I know, but he and I have an unspoken pact to keep up this nasty banter we started, for entertainment purposes.

@stanleybmanly let me remind you that jaywalking and public inebriation are not misdemeanors in every state. Entering the country illegally is. And let me remind you that jaywalking and public inebriation have specific penalties…usually fines and/or jail time. Entering the country illegally also has specific penalties, both civil and criminal. The criminal penalties are to spend time in jail and be deported. The civil penalty is a fine. And let me remind you that a second attempt to enter the country illegally is a felony. How many stories do we hear every day about some illegal alien that committed a crime and we find out he has been deported a bunch of times before? And these are the people the liberal Sanctuary Cities are protecting….felons.
So while the first time attempting to enter the country may be a misdemeanor, the subsequent efforts are not. AND just like jaywalking or public inebriation, we should enforce our laws. Why is it you don’t want to enforce the law?

To begin with I am not authorized to “enforce the law”. If you are asking why I don’t want the “law” enforced, I would ask you to point to the part of this conversation that allows you to draw such a conclusion. It is a long stretch to equate resistance to the brutalization of people with a get out of jail free card or the elimination of the country’s borders. Such assumptions merely betray the shallow nature and fundamental flaws in your reasoning; traits you unfortunately share with your “fuhrer”. You should divorce yourself from the tactics of the fool and his right wing simpleton allies. And you should begin by dumping the transparently stupid argument that the people flooding our borders are defined by drug dealers and hardened criminals. THOSE people need not bother piling up at the borders, and anyone with the brain of a tick should understand as much. You and I agree that we have an intractable problem at our borders. Trump and Obama agree on that one. The disagreement isn’t on whether or not there is a problem. The disagreement is on whether or not extrajudicial remedies are to be allowed in the pursuit of remedies. You, Trump and the right make the mistake of considering this a left vs. right battle. You should think a little deeper. We are NOT going to deport our way out of this problem. For all of the flaws you care to find with Obama, he set the record thus far in shipping people South. Yet the tide continues to swell. The problem with Trump’s approach is that it follows the template of his existence—ends justifying means, without a care as to the legality or worse the shifting of this country from a nation based on equitable laws. You should drop the blog thinking for a bit and consider THIS aspect for a moment. The reason it is important that the rights of those flooding the border MUST be looked after, whether there are criminals hidden among them or not, and the reason YOU and I both should see to it that those rights are protected is because those involved are at the absolute bottom of this society. They are weakest and as close to defenseless as you can get. And you can bet your ass, that any erosion of your or my fundamental liberties will begin with inroads at the bottom.

@seawulf575 . “How many stories do we hear every day about some illegal alien committing a crime and we find out he had been deported a bunch of times before?”
Personally, almost never. Certainly not daily. I’m sure it happens, but the last article that comes to my mind is that guy that accidentally shot some girl in maybe Santa Monica? That was years ago.

Now. I’m sure you’re dying to dig up a list of illegal immigrant crime by repeat illegals, but let me save you the trouble. Your statement infers that this is rampant, and we hear about all the time. Simply not true. I would bet that your conservative media is busy trying to force it into your attention. More propaganda. More attempts to dehumanize brown people. More bullshit sandwiches…

@MrGrimm888 Most illegal aliens who commit violent crimes have been deported multiple times. There is nothing to keep them out.

@MrGrimm888 I’m not digging anything up. It’s useless. You are one of the most closed minded people I have ever chatted with…right behind @stanleybmanly. It doesn’t matter to you how many facts I hand you, if they don’t agree with your liberal fantasy world, you just ignore them or tell me I need to prove them. I have given you example after example of stuff in the past you you remain purposely ignorant.

^You don’t have facts. Many of the things that you speak of are unverified, and unverifiable. You just make blanket statements, that try to justify your thinking.

We don’t have a clue how many people sneak in. No clue about how many are criminals. No clue about how many times they’ve been here. The only recorded data on any of them, is through law enforcement. One can say, that a person who has been deported three times, has likely been in the country illegally at least three times. Everything else is speculation. And when conservative media puts their negative spin on it, and mixes with fear and stupidity of the average conservative, you think you know the facts. You just “know” what conservative media wants you to “know.”

There are not daily reports of constant crime by illegals that have been deported multiple times. Sorry. There just aren’t. I wager there are some cities along the border that have issues with serial illegal crossers, but the country is not under siege. You are VASTLY embellishing the negative effects of illegals.

To hear conservatives talk about illegals, you could easily conclude that millions cross illegally every day, 95% are here for nefarious reasons. 100% just want to get welfare, and mooch off of our fine hard working white Christians, like the other brown people in America. And of course, Mexico is using all of it’s resources to collect the worst of their society and send them here. WHAT A LOAD OF HORSE SHIT….

Yeah, I’m closed minded. Pfft. Pathetic…..

@MrGrimm888 It could be a quarter million aliens a DAY, just ask Ceewolf123 !

^I’m sick of hearing BS about illegal immigrants. The real problems are our legal conservatives. I am starting to wonder if they hand out meth, at these Trump rallies….
I would trade anyone who wanted to come to America, for our conservative population…

^ I find comments like that funny because I have made the suggestion that instead of mucking up the USA by trying to change it into some liberal Utopia, that liberals should go to one of those countries they so revere. It is already what they want, all they would have to do is tweak it a little instead of trying wholesale change.

^Wrong. You are a minority, in the US. I suggest you build a new Mayflower, and go find a new land to rape…..

@MrGrimm888 I suggest, respectfully, that you look over and analyze just your last two posts. Can you not see how unbridled and extreme your hate is?

YOU are a white guy living in Charleston—YOU are the one losing YOUR country, YOUR freedom as a fairly liberal individual—You may think the masses entering this country illegally are kindred spirits with you, but they are not. Nor are the terrorists which Obama supported in the Middle East and are coddled by the U.S. left.

But that aside, look at the hate in your first post. You WILL live long enough to see that you are a minority in an America that is a fallen, third-world, largely anarchist country. We all know it is inevitable. But the hatred you have for those who stand for the nation that gave you the freedom to enjoy life, art, diversity, and freedom, appalls me. You are even in denial that these human traffickers and drug cartels and deported – re-entered individuals are committing violent crimes.

The only good thing about this is you will live to see the results of what’s happening. The bad thing is, the other side, whom you say are “the real problem” will have to take the medicine, too—and we are not sick.

You and the wulf are always in such a hurry to throw that word hate around, as though the 2 of you are pillars of tolerance. I don’t bother to confuse conservative meanness and pettiness with hatred, nor do I believe that either of you hate liberals. But here’s the deal. We have opposite views on what ails the country, but interestingly agree that things aren’t right and are getting worse. The wulf will look to his blog list of Obama pissing all over the Constitution, and we are asked to accept the absurd proposition that Trump is a step in the right direction. Maybe it’s time to consider why it is that well meaning people grow ever more polarized against one another, and just who benefits from it.

@Yellowdog: White people made this country great, and if we let anyone else in then we’ll become a “fallen, third-world, largely anarchist country” because those other people will bring us down to their level.

That is some white nationalist bullshit right there.

If you’ve come to hold those beliefs without realizing that, if you find they’ve simply snuck up onto you, and if white nationalism is not your intent, I suggest you analyze your media consumption carefully. You might also look up the ways that white nationalists are trying to code their language to make their beliefs seem more appealing and reasonable in an attempt to hook people.

Even if you think the US can’t cope with an increased number of immigrants, you can at least have some compassion for those fellow humans you think so little of right now, people immigrating from countries where they struggle to make ends meet and have little to no opportunity to improve their situation, who are coming to the self-branded shining city on a hill to be able to have the American Dream of working hard to improve one’s situation—which is the story of immigration here since before the country’s fricking inception, it’s as American as it gets. And if you don’t think the USA has the ability to offer what it promises to people, then you think much less of this country than I do.

There won’t be a ‘shining city on a hill’ in 20–30 years. The America you know is radically different from what it was just ten years ago. A great deal of this is not immigration, but the division in this country that has been planted by groups that are claiming that everyone is a victim and that white male straight Christians are the oppressor, and the more you fit those four terms, the more of the oppressor you are.

The rosy picture you paint of people coming here for a better life or “the American Dream” is not the picture at the border. Its a war zone.

We are going the way of Venezuela

There still are legitimate immigrants moving into the country, but the country they aspire to come to is fast disappearing. It is being diluted and systematically divided and destroyed by those who like to use ‘victims’ for political purposes.

Venezuela? I thought the American economy was flourishing.

There you go! The left planned and is exploiting the people besieging the borders in order to destroy the country.

And why do you keep saying ‘white people’ are the problem?

America is diverse. I know families from India, South Korea, Iran, and Indonesia who feel the same way I do,

It is the left who are trying to divide by race.

@Flutherother: America will be like Venezuela if we slide the way of socialism.

No one is saying white people are the problem. You assumed, when @MrGrimm888 said “you are the minority” to someone else above, that he was referring to skin color. You then proceeded to say that white people are losing their country and their freedom to the “masses” who “are not kindred spirits” and that @MrGrimm888, as a “white guy,” should recognize that.

Edited to add: if you can’t see that there’s a difference between “immigrants from countries you deem lesser are not the enemy” and “white people are the enemy,” then you’re already looking at the situation with the expectation that one of those groups is an enemy, and if not one, then the other. That might be something you want to work on.

@Yellowdog If we wind up like Venezuela, socialism will not be the culprit. In fact the only thing standing between us and Venezuela NOW is the social safety net woven before the arrival of crackpot wing nuts.

We were talking about immigration which is not a problem Venezuela has. Quite the reverse, people are leaving that country in droves.

Admit it @Yellowdog, the U.S. is becoming too brown for you and it makes you feel uncomfortable. That’s why the idea of moving to Canada sounds so appealing to you.

Oh my @Yellowdog . You and wulf make me sound like I know EXACTLY what I’m talking about, in regards to conservatives.
Yes. I’m a white male, living in Charleston, SC. I wouldn’t expect you to know that I am already a minority here. There are more black people, than white here. And we somehow manage to be regarded as one of the friendliest, best places in the world, according to multiple travel publications. Yes. Despite all the black people…

North Charleston, is a terrible place. It’s getting a little better now though. There is a large/growing Mexican population, that is carving out a decent community there. Some street signs are all in Spanish there now. It’s far better than the meth, and crack addicts that used to populate the area (although there are still plenty of those…) I know that this is what you’re afraid of. You and your fellow conservatives, are losing your white privileges. I’m glad you are offended by my stance. I’m glad you finally owned your racism. I’m glad that you showed conservatives’ true colors, instead of me pointing it out, and getting denial.

But… I like you, outside of politics, and it saddens me beyond articulation, to hear your bigotry. It somewhat amazes me, that you can spew such ignorance, and preech to me about hate, in the same breath. SMH…

You’re right though, regarding conservatives. I am starting to hate them. They are some of the most greedy, selfish, pathetic people I have ever known. Your statements about white people being some superior race, are straight disturbing. I hope that our pond reads your shameful comments, so I don’t have to waste my breath calling you out. I DARE @seawulf575 to defend your statements, and I bet the farm he agrees with most of them. You guys talk about my unbridled hate. This is as bridled as I can be. After reading YD’s posts, I considered going off on him. But. As “liberals” (as you call me) do, you go low, and we’ll go high.
Shameful. Pathetic. Just as I suspected. As I’ve said before MAGA = Make America White Again. What a disgrace…

You are oddly enough using the “white supremacist” meme now to describe republicans.

Don’t you realize that the American work ethic, the country immigrants from all over the world come to, is a capitalist nation where all things have been possible for all people, regardless of their race or their color?

I think we basically want the same thing—but I am seeing you and other on the left trying to use demographic, racial, and ethnic differences as ways to divide people, saying republicans are the oppressors and every non-white person is a victim— to gain political power.

Many people younger than me do not remember that most of the world rejected the communist / socialist regimes as oppressors in the 1988–1992 era, They were totalitarian and required absolute conformity in thought and would censor or silence all opposing views. I can see many of the same police-state patterns happening today in politics and communications.

@Yellowdog You are describing Trump’s World ( not just communist / socialist regimes as oppressors in the 1988–1992 era) where he controls whomever he wants and oppresses with out regards to Constitution !

Republicans and true Democrats believe in a Constitutional Republic

YOU espouse the belief that the Constitution was written by old white guys who believed in oppression and slavery and needs to be done away with and replaced with Socialism

No I’m saying Trump view of the Constitution, Is white supremacist based!

DEFLECT DEFLECT DEFLECT

@Tropical_Willie deflect? You haven’t stated anything that has any substance to it. You are stating your opinion and then trying to cry deflection when someone disagrees with it. Typical liberal. Here’s a concept…the topic of this thread is “where is the outrage against Canada for not wanting illegal immigrants”. Your blatherings are WAY off topic. Deflection?

DEFLECT

DEFLECT
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.
,

DEFLECT

Deflect from what?

^ Deflection from nothing. That’s just @Tropical_Willie stuck in a hole. He really doesn’t contribute, just snipes in from time to time. When you confront him he does something like this.

I contribute but not to your liking and I’m bored with people just “copy and paste” from Ultra right “White is Good” blogs.

If anyone is in a hole here, it’s the conservative jellies. @Yellowdog confirmed ALL my rhetoric about their racism. Then switched gears to socialism.

Where is all the outrage over Canada for not wanting illegal immigrants? If you can’t see the difference between how American conservatives act about brown people, versus Canada’s stance, you cannot be helped.
@Yellowdog made some abhorrent comments, but he has more balls than 99.9% of conservativeswho feel just like him, but deny the truth. I’ve been listening to bullshit about national security, rapists, murderers, sex traffickers etc from the right for months. The right is full of racist cowards, who hide behind deflection, and denial of their true beliefs. Everything I have accused the right of, is absolutely true. You hear it from their idiot leader’s mouth, and you hear it from the only conservative jelly with guts…
Make some lists, or whatever makes you feel better about yourselves, but your true colors are on full display. The conservative mindset, is a DISGRACE. It is selfish, greedy, racist, and cowardly. Trump has empowered the most pathetic people in our country, to fly their hate flag proudly. Yet most still try to convince the rest of us, that they aren’t bigots, and shit bags. But the rest of us know. We smell the bullshit sandwiches Trump feeds his followers coming from their mouth.
Deflection. Conservatives deflect, or try, from their true views. They want their country white, and Christian, but lack the courage to carry the labels they deserve. I’m calling each and every conservative out, over this thread, and it’s contents.

Man up, like @Yellowdog did. Let that hate out. Stop pretending you are decent people. It’s very ironic, that conservatives claim to be patriotic, but they are against everything that the nation was founded on. Everything that the world used to look at, as an example of freedom, and democracy. The world surely looks down on us now, and we deserve it. I will not let conservatives destroy our country, and live in peace and harmony. The country is fighting back. The world is repelling as well. I can’t think of a countryTrump visits, where there aren’t protests. Sarah H. can’t eat in public. Others have people protesting them at their homes. This bullshit will not continue without pushback. I hope the day comes, when all these conservative piles of excrement are shamed into hiding, or fleeing. There is NO place for them in a country that should be the greatest in history.

The tragedy in all of this is that Trump supposes that the migrant tide might be stemmed through a systematic reign of terror. You can always depend on conservatives to reach for the mean and heartless solution to any conundrum the nation might face, They reliably come down hardest on the weak and defenseless.

Yeah. Unless it’s abortion. It’s literally the only time conservatives care about anyone bit themselves…

Not sure why…

@MrGrimm888 Abortion = Control over women? Somehow, women hold a slight majority in the population, yet… last I heard, don’t really hold much place in power when it comes to government and CEO positions. Keeping them barefoot and pregnant and telling them that God says men rules over them is their last ditch effort. Too many women fall for it. It’s hurting our numbers. Also, nobody prioritises motherhood. They all pretend to, but they don’t.

Abortion = control over women’s rights. Yes…

Conservativesdo value motherhood. They just want to make sure that the mother isn’t getting a penny from our government. They care about the child in the womb, and then don’t care about the actual person. In America….